Kingdom Building rules

[felinoel]

What stops players from ignoring the required BPs for building a house or making a road and just building it themselves?

There appears to be something in the rules for something SIMILAR to this, at the below link under Special Terrain there is info for how to deal with a hex that already has a building in it, would physically building a house or whatnot follow the same rules?


Building: The hex contains an abandoned building in good repair (type determined by the GM). If you establish a settlement at the building's location in the hex, you can incorporate the building into the settlement at no cost (this does not count toward your building limit for that turn).

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/kingdomsAndWar/kingdomTurnSequence.html

[Seerow]

What stops players from ignoring the required BPs for building a house or making a road and just building it themselves?

There appears to be something in the rules for something SIMILAR to this, at the below link under Special Terrain there is info for how to deal with a hex that already has a building in it, would physically building a house or whatnot follow the same rules?



http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCampaign/kingdomsAndWar/kingdomTurnSequence.html

Nothing but GM fiat, really.

The problem is that Paizo tries to be too specific and broad at the same time. A single building in a kingdom's city is supposed to actually represent about a city block worth of smaller buildings, with the building you actually pay for just being the most prominent feature of that block and what actually adjusts your kingdom's effectiveness.

And that actually makes sense, as you point out, they go super specific frequently, with stuff like claiming a hex with a single building and gaining all of its benefits even without the other supporting buildings you're supposed to be paying for. They also have things like statting out village with 14 buildings total, and giving you 14 buildings worth of benefit if your kingdom annexes it, so instead of a tiny village you end up with a small city! It's all around pretty poorly thought through.


If you're interested I homebrewed some changes to the Kingdom building rules that try to address some of these concerns here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?409875-Kingdom-Building-Modifications. Following those modifications I would treat the building in the hex as one of the discounted buildings for a settlement after your first, getting a 20% discount to it.

[felinoel]

A single building in a kingdom's city is supposed to actually represent about a city block worth of smaller buildings, with the building you actually pay for just being the most prominent feature of that block and what actually adjusts your kingdom's effectiveness.kay then how about building the entire 12 mile hex full of buildings themselves?


If you're interested I homebrewed some changes to the Kingdom building rules that try to address some of these concerns here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?409875-Kingdom-Building-Modifications. Following those modifications I would treat the building in the hex as one of the discounted buildings for a settlement after your first, getting a 20% discount to it.Oh does this answer my question above?

[Seerow]

kay then how about building the entire 12 mile hex full of buildings themselves?

Building a whole 12 mile hex full of buildings yourself is going to take an extraordinarily long amount of time, plus a lot of resources in terms of construction materials. Even just doing a typical block of buildings (which is much smaller than a whole hex) means making at least dozens of buildings. That's a lot of labor. If you plan on logging/mining/wall of stone and ironing materials out of the picture, it will take even longer.

I mean you could theoretically do so, but at that point, why do you care about the kingdom building rules?

[Kudaku]

The party would probably be better off taking the building materials/gold they were planning to spend on building it themselves and donating that to the kingdom treasury, then developing the hex with the newly added BP. Kingdom rules have a rather large advantage in that all construction finishes in a single month, while building the area you describe with the downtime rules would several months, if not years.

[felinoel]

Building a whole 12 mile hex full of buildings yourself is going to take an extraordinarily long amount of timeNo it won't.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/lyre-of-building

[Seerow]

No it won't.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/lyre-of-building

According to Ultimate Campaign, Lyre of Building will reduce a single building's BP cost by 2. It won't let you build cities for free. Yeah it's kind of a ripoff compared to what the item says it can do, but that's part of the price you pay for abstraction.

[Kudaku]

According to Ultimate Campaign, Lyre of Building will reduce a single building's BP cost by 2. It won't let you build cities for free. Yeah it's kind of a ripoff compared to what the item says it can do, but that's part of the price you pay for abstraction.

I'm guessing this is why they want to use the downtime rules instead of the kingdom rules. The GM might have made a favorable ruling for the downtime rules and/or not be aware of the lyre's effect in the kingdom rules.

[felinoel]

According to Ultimate Campaign, Lyre of Building will reduce a single building's BP cost by 2. It won't let you build cities for free. Yeah it's kind of a ripoff compared to what the item says it can do, but that's part of the price you pay for abstraction.

LOL wow, well good thing the DM is using the 2010 Kingmaker rules.

Apparently the DM is hinting that in the next game in the series our town is under attack so I am going to have enough of them made to create a safety dome over the city and any damage they do to them is negated by playing them.