My player got a upgrade and I don't know what to do

[Sudokori]

Playing 3.5 E with a relatively new group to role playing. Noticed that at level three there still hasn't been much character-character interaction yet. So I decided to spice things up with this little thingy.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Grog_of_Susbtantial_Whimsy_%283.5e_Equipment%29

Wizard took four sips and came out with a snake for a tongue, a addiction to preserved pork, a new expertise for cooking cat, and a un-shavable beard. The rogue took a sip and lost a foot of height (no stat change explicitly stated on the thing), and then there's the fighter. He took just one sip and rolled 585 (roll again but effects are twice as strong) then rolled 183 and found himself with four new fully functioning arms. There began the argument on how this would effect how many weapons he could hold and use effectively in combat. He wanted to argue that he could use two extra two-handed swords (two handed weapons fighter guy) but I pressed that doing so would result in penalties to all of his attack rolls. And with four extra arms comes extra muscle. He wanted a extra STR point because of his new limbs, he even suggested lowering his charisma to balance it (because extra arms aren't always attractive). The session was ending already so I decided I would think about it and tell him next week. What should I do?

[Kamai]

What I would think (assuming that you're a little afraid of just giving it to him) would be to let him have his 3 swords, but he would have to take multi-weapon fighting monster feat to represent actually being able to use it. He should also get bonuses to Strength checks, but not Strength itself. Having the extra arms isn't just going to let him magically hit harder unless he finds the way to use the extra arms (which is what a bonus to things like Climb and Swim would represent).

Do emphasise that he needs the extra training because his training would have revolved around him having 2 arms, just like I would expect a Thrikeen to have learned how to fight differently with their extra arms.

[Invader]

Playing 3.5 E with a relatively new group to role playing. Noticed that at level three there still hasn't been much character-character interaction yet. So I decided to spice things up with this little thingy.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Grog_of_Susbtantial_Whimsy_%283.5e_Equipment%29

Wizard took four sips and came out with a snake for a tongue, a addiction to preserved pork, a new expertise for cooking cat, and a un-shavable beard. The rogue took a sip and lost a foot of height (no stat change explicitly stated on the thing), and then there's the fighter. He took just one sip and rolled 585 (roll again but effects are twice as strong) then rolled 183 and found himself with four new fully functioning arms. There began the argument on how this would effect how many weapons he could hold and use effectively in combat. He wanted to argue that he could use two extra two-handed swords (two handed weapons fighter guy) but I pressed that doing so would result in penalties to all of his attack rolls. And with four extra arms comes extra muscle. He wanted a extra STR point because of his new limbs, he even suggested lowering his charisma to balance it (because extra arms aren't always attractive). The session was ending already so I decided I would think about it and tell him next week. What should I do?

You shouldn't use dndwiki items especially when they specifically say its a joke and shouldnt be used in game because it may cause imbalance.

That being said, really just explain its not a good idea and get rid of all the extra arms.

If you really want to use just let it act like girralons blessing, give him claw attacks but don't let him use normal weapons and don't give him a str bonus.

[Sudokori]

You shouldn't use dndwiki items especially when they specifically say its a joke and shouldnt be used in game because it may cause imbalance.

That being said, really just explain its not a good idea and get rid of all the extra arms.

If you really want to use just let it act like girralons blessing, give him claw attacks but don't let him use normal weapons and don't give him a str bonus.

Good idea. I used the thing because no real role playing was going on and it's a fun little thing to use. And really, the odds he hit a roll again (like 1:100 because there's a few in there) then hitting the only thing to give him arms is lucky indeed. 1:100,000 chance. I might just have the effects decrease over time for everyone and his extra limbs might or might not stay based on what we decide to do. I like the idea of just making it that he can't use any additional weapons effectively in combat without expensive specialized training. Otherwise he is just a more "handy" individual.

[J-H]

^As the above poster said, he got arms. Not specified is what type of arms. Insect-like, claw-tipped arms give him claw attacks, but no extra weapons or fine manipulation.

He may have more muscle, but it's distributed to more places, so there's no effective strength gain in any given application. I would give him minor bonuses to Climb and Intimidate, though.

[Crake]

Tell him to get a permanent item of fuse arms and then enjoy his +8 strength

[Vizzerdrix]

Let him gain the Obah- Blessed template over time instead, maybe?

[PaucaTerrorem]

Bonus to STR checks. But if he tries to make extra attacks give a penalty to all attacks. Like others said; he's trained at using 2 arms. Any more and it's gonna mess up your flow.

[Baroknik]

I recall some rule somewhere saying that for every additional hand wielding a non-light weapon the player adds another +.5STR to damage... So just let that apply maybe? Would give him +3.5STR to damage, but compared to PA shenanigans that's nothing.

And that's what he gets for risking the use of that item and its drawbacks, I'd not retcon it -- would you if he had a penalty instead?

And using >2 weapons is multifighting, which is actually not a terrible option (especially compared to TWF).

[Sewercop]

I say follow the rules. He is a fighter, quite bland.
He wont break the game really

[Tvtyrant]

Let him enjoy the arms, give everyone else an action or fate point.

[kaffalidjmah]

How do you roll a d1000?

[Sudokori]

How do you roll a d1000?

Roll a d10 for the hundreds place, then two d10 for the other digits

[Lerondiel]

Playing 3.5 E with a relatively new group to role playing. Noticed that at level three there still hasn't been much character-character interaction yet. So I decided to spice things up with this little thingy.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Grog_of_Susbtantial_Whimsy_%283.5e_Equipment%29

Wizard took four sips and came out with a snake for a tongue, a addiction to preserved pork, a new expertise for cooking cat, and a un-shavable beard. The rogue took a sip and lost a foot of height (no stat change explicitly stated on the thing), and then there's the fighter. He took just one sip and rolled 585 (roll again but effects are twice as strong) then rolled 183 and found himself with four new fully functioning arms. There began the argument on how this would effect how many weapons he could hold and use effectively in combat. He wanted to argue that he could use two extra two-handed swords (two handed weapons fighter guy) but I pressed that doing so would result in penalties to all of his attack rolls. And with four extra arms comes extra muscle. He wanted a extra STR point because of his new limbs, he even suggested lowering his charisma to balance it (because extra arms aren't always attractive). The session was ending already so I decided I would think about it and tell him next week. What should I do?

As mentioned, Multi-Weapon Fighting will cover the mechanics fine.

The more significant issue is that your group is relatively new to roleplaying.
You can handle the character but are there any other players not mentioned who will struggle? The wizard will more than catch up and the rogue has many uses outside combat but any other warriors in the group could start feeling redundant very fast.

[Psyren]

Charisma is not related to physical appearance.

And for the love of Pelor, do not use dndwiki going forward.

[Sudokori]

As mentioned, Multi-Weapon Fighting will cover the mechanics fine.

The more significant issue is that your group is relatively new to roleplaying.
You can handle the character but are there any other players not mentioned who will struggle? The wizard will more than catch up and the rogue has many uses outside combat but any other warriors in the group could start feeling redundant very fast.

There are not other fighters in the group, unless you count the cleric. The cleric decided not to drink the grog and he's not a problem.

[atemu1234]

I recall some rule somewhere saying that for every additional hand wielding a non-light weapon the player adds another +.5STR to damage... So just let that apply maybe? Would give him +3.5STR to damage, but compared to PA shenanigans that's nothing.

And that's what he gets for risking the use of that item and its drawbacks, I'd not retcon it -- would you if he had a penalty instead?

And using >2 weapons is multifighting, which is actually not a terrible option (especially compared to TWF).

That rule's from Savage Species, FYI.

[Hiro Quester]

I'm with the others. let him keep them. He took the risk of some negatives. He deserves the positives.

Multi weapon fighting will keep this fighter making a strong contribution at higher levels. Plus versatility. Hold two shields and still have four arms for attacking.

It won't be that unbalanced. He will be comparatively overpowered at lower levels. But the others will catch up. (Or give the others an action point.)

[mashlagoo1982]

My first question as this player would be "Can I go all Guts from Berserk, but with six arms so I can wield the giant sword?"

Unoptimized but super fun for me.

[Segev]

Chiming in to support the idea of just letting him have them. 6 arms is nice, in that it makes him eligible for multiweapon fighting, but he still needs the feat. Triple-wielding greatswords is nifty, but hardly game-breaking. Just remember, you don't want to make every fight "line up and hit each other." Tactics will honestly make a bigger difference than three-weapon fighting.

[Sudokori]

My first question as this player would be "Can I go all Guts from Berserk, but with six arms so I can wield the giant sword?"

Unoptimized but super fun for me.

Wow. Both me and mostly everyone at our table has read berserker and none of us thought of that. Maybe when they reach town they might find a "super ultra mega great sword" in the weapon shop. Probably gonna wipe out his chatacter's savings but I'm confident the group will have fun with it, but mostly him.

[Lightlawbliss]

I am also in the boat of "let him keep them". Actually using them effectively in combat is going to require at least one feat and he is going to be insanely outclassed at higher levels even with the extra arms. I would also not change his stats because of it, though a circumstance bonus to str based checks wouldn't be out of place. (Also, I second the "not human arms idea, since the goal was to encourage rp. Having used weapons that need 2 hands before, the second hand doesn't do much so even an insect claw is likely enough for that role but said claw would not be enough to be the main hand.)

[ExLibrisMortis]

Tell him he can use three spiked chains, provided he has ranks in Use Rope and Sleight of Hand equal to his fighter levels :smalltongue:.

More seriously, he'll get some extra attacks, but with multi-weapon fighting penalties. The multiweapon fighting feat says: "Normal: A creature without this feat takes a –6 penalty on attacks made with its primary hand and a –10 penalty on attacks made with its off hands. (It has one primary hand, and all the others are off hands.)"

The feat reduces the penalties to -4, or -2 if the off-hand weapon is light, just like two-weapon fighting. Since you only have one primary hand, you need to wield lots of light weapons if you want to avoid the -2 penalty from heavier off-hands. You can also eat the penalty, and just wield greatswords for the awesome.

For a third-level fighter, you get a couple of full attack options:

One greatsword* at +3, for 2d6 + 3.5*str, or

Three greatswords at -1/-1/-1, for 2d6 + 1*str (1.5*str for the main hand), or

One greatsword and four shortswords at +1/+1/+1/+1/+1, for 2d6 + 1.5*str and 1d6 + .5*str respectively, or

Six short swords at +1/+1/+1/+1/+1/+1, for 1d6 + 0.5*str (1*str for the main hand).

That's a lot of attacks at third level. Later on, if you compare three greatswords to (say) Flurry of Blows, it's not that different. A flurry for +15/+15/+15/+10/+5** or greatswords for +16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+1. The light weapon option can lead to lots of die-rolling, but the lack of power attack means damage won't scale too badly, unless you have tons of skirmish/sneak attack.

*According to Savage Species, a masterwork greatsword can be especially crafted to accomodate up to eight hands.
**Or with one more attack, if you multiclass the monk to get at least 16 base attack.

[Lord of Shadows]

For a third-level fighter, you get a couple of full attack options:
[...]

Six short swords at +1/+1/+1/+1/+1/+1, for 1d6 + 0.5*str (1*str for the main hand).


Nickname this "Attack Mode Cuisinart" :cool:

Useful for the intimidation factor if nothing else.. Also handy for keeping the Town Guard at a safe distance.
.

[Sith_Happens]

If you let him keep the arms there are three main things he can do with them in combat:

Option 1: Multiweapon Fight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#multiweaponFighting).

Option 2: Have his weapon modified so he can wield it with all six hands (or replace it with one already designed for such), giving him an additional 0.5x STR to damage per extra hand (for a total of 3.5x STR).

Option 3: Combine the above, say by wielding three two-handed weapons (getting 1.5x STR to damage with one and 1x STR with the other two) or two modified-for-three-hands weapons (with 2x STR to damage with one and 1.5x STR with the other). Either way he'll need the Multiweapon Fighting feat to do it.

[Sewercop]

Enlarge him and see him get 6 slam attacks :D
Let him be a dungeon crasher and take the IUS feat or dip monk. See him slap people around like a wuxia tv star.

He got one thing and thats fighting, let him be cool while doing it.
But to be honest, in low op and practical op. The first to be banned are often high damage builds.(i know its weird, its not like theory)

[Sliver]

You introduced a joke item to encourage RP? Okay...

Well, they accepted the risks, so they deserve to get a reward out of it. As long as you aren't allowing partial actions and the fighter will start taking UMD to activate true strike wands while PAing with two two-handed swords at the same time, and even that is far from game-breaking, there shouldn't be an issue with that. Give him some serious penalties at the start and then normalize them to the -5 for secondary attacks, then he can take the feats to reduce it further. You know, represent the training it takes to get used to such a thing.

No need for an outright Str bonus, but to Strength related stuff? Yeah. Increased Carry Capacity, Grappling and stuff of that sort, they can benefit from extra sets of arms. After he trains with them.

[Sudokori]

You introduced a joke item to encourage RP? Okay...


Hey don't judge me!>:( It worked a bit. The wizard and rogue actually talked in character (for a few minutes solid) for the first time since the group met in a tavern at lvl one. Although, it was basically discussing what the hell happened to them and if they could find the guys who produces the stuff and get it weaponised. It's a start.

[atemu1234]

Hey don't judge me!>:( It worked a bit. The wizard and rogue actually talked in character (for a few minutes solid) for the first time since the group met in a tavern at lvl one. Although, it was basically discussing what the hell happened to them and if they could find the guys who produces the stuff and get it weaponised. It's a start.

Hey, you asked for help. And out-of-character discussion may have worked as well, without unbalancing the game. Though this is not the worst thing on that table he could have rolled, to be honest.

[mashlagoo1982]

Wow. Both me and mostly everyone at our table has read berserker and none of us thought of that. Maybe when they reach town they might find a "super ultra mega great sword" in the weapon shop. Probably gonna wipe out his chatacter's savings but I'm confident the group will have fun with it, but mostly him.

Call the super ultra mega great sword "Pippin's Dagger".

[Necroticplague]

He wanted to argue that he could use two extra two-handed swords (two handed weapons fighter guy) but I pressed that doing so would result in penalties to all of his attack rolls.

You're both right. Using more than two weapons uses the same rules as using two weapons, save that you have more off-hands. Since greatswords aren't light weapons, he would take a -6 to his main-hand attack, and a -10 to his off-hand attacks.Assuming BaB+6 (not including STR mod), his attack routine would be +0/-5/-4/-4 If he wants less penalties, he should pick up the Multiweapon Fighting line.

[yakri]

I really just have to say that if you didn't want your fighter to use 6 weapons, you shouldn't have given him 6 arms. Although normal multi-weapon fighting penalties should apply of course.

[Nagukuk]

Extra hands does not have to equal more great swords ...

Just think of all the cool magic gloves / rings he could wear (there's a feat for that)

Like someone said above, extra hands = more wands
extra hands = more shields
extra hands = throw more weapons
extra hands = throw stuff and bash stuff at the same time
extra hands = shoot x bows and wield swords at the same time
extra hands = threaten multiple ranges with reach and non reach weapons
extra hands = shoot 3 composite long bows
extra hands = multiple items ready to use, potions ready to drink
extra hands = you give the ultimate back rub
extra hands = fighting with a sword or two while petting your hairless kitty and laughing maniacally
extra hands = you can play 3 games of rock, paper, lizard, Spock with YOUR SELF! or even 6 with other people


if you don't want him to use 3 swords etc right now ... make it a quest to seek out a being that could / would / will train him how to fight with the new appendages, instead of just allowing him to take multi weapon fighting etc.