Psicrystal Metamorphosis how does it work? (3.5)

[jok]

Please see example at post #11 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19157957&postcount=11)


Hello,

Lets say a level 10 Psion with the overchannel feat uses Metamorphosis only on his psicrystal into a 12 Headed Hydra.

Question 1 Does the Psion have to be inside of 5ft or the metamorphosed Hydra reverts back into the crystal?

Question 2 What saves will the psicrystal in Hydra form use?

Question 3 Does the Psion need to spend a standart action to activate the self-propulsion ability of the psicrystal, since otherwise it has no str and dex?

Question 4 What happens to the natural armor of the psicrystal? It is an Ex ability, but natural amor does not stack.

Question 5 What happens to all the other EX abilites of the psicrystal?

Question 6A Does the psicrystal have class levels?

Question 6B If not, would he then change his type into magical beast for the purpose of BAB, hit dice...?

Question 6C Why does Metamorphosis not generally change the BAB, hit dice,... based on the type change even if the user has class levels. Since the power does not mention anything about BAB, hitdice,... like Polymorph does? It only mentions change type. Is there a rule some place that tell you what to do if you change a creatures type?


I am interested in RAW, RAI and homebrew fixes but please make clear what is what.

Thank you!

[Terazul]

Lesee here.

#1 Yup:

Share Powers (Su)
At the owner’s option, he can have any power (but not any psi-like ability) he manifests on himself also affect his psicrystal. The psicrystal must be within 5 feet of him at the time of the manifestation to receive the benefit. If the power has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the psicrystal if it moves farther than 5 feet away, and will not affect the psicrystal again, even if it returns to its owner before the duration expires.
Emphasis mine.

#2 Same as they always are.

Saving Throws
A psicrystal uses its owner’s base saving throw bonuses and ability modifiers on saves, though it doesn’t enjoy any other bonuses its owner might have (from magic items or feats, for example).
Even if it changes shape or form, gaining the STR, DEX, and CON of the hydra, it still always uses the owner's saves/modifiers.

#3 It's a hydra now. Since it Metamorphosis'd it gained the STR and DEX of the creature.

#4A Good question.

Natural Armor Adj. (Ex)
This number noted here is an improvement to the psicrystal’s natural armor bonus (normally 0). It represents a psicrystal’s preternatural durability.
Not sure how that interacts. Someone else probably has a good answer.

#5

You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and special qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have, if any. You keep all extraordinary special attacks and special qualities derived from class levels, but you lose any benefits of the racial traits of your normal form.
So you lose Construct Traits and your Racial bonus to Climb. The other bonuses it gets only apply when it's within 1 mile of it's owner so it's arguable that they aren't inherent to the crystal's race itself.

#6A No, but it has hit die.

Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s.
Actual hit dice, not effective ones, so actually can use feats that it qualifies for. Hilarity ensues.

#6B Type always changes to the type of the new form, as it states in Metamorphosis. But yeah, BAB is the same, because it doesn't say to recalculate it.

#6C I don't understand what you mean? Polymorph doesn't change BAB either, or say anything about it, other than the reference to Alter Self:

You retain your own ability scores. Your class and level, hit points, alignment, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses all remain the same.

[jok]

#1
But there is the second part

Share Powers (Su)
At the owner’s option, he can have any power (but not any psi-like ability) he manifests on himself also affect his psicrystal. The psicrystal must be within 5 feet of him at the time of the manifestation to receive the benefit. If the power has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the psicrystal if it moves farther than 5 feet away, and will not affect the psicrystal again, even if it returns to its owner before the duration expires.

Additionally, the owner can manifest a power with a target of “You” on his psicrystal (as a touch range power) instead of on himself. The owner and psicrystal cannot share powers if the powers normally do not affect creatures of the psicrystal’s type (construct).

The first part you quoted seems to be about casting a power once and have it affect the Psion and the psicrystal at the same time. While the second part doesn't mention anything about 5ft.



From your answers to #6 I get that one should only do what the power exactly says.
So do the hitpoints change because of changed con? Does the Hydra get its strength to AT then?
I know that these questions sound strange, but it also tells us to change type. And if I look at types in the SRD they tell you BAB, hit dice... . Contrary to Polymorph and Alter Self wich tell you to keep BAB, hit dice, hitpoints.


Edit:
Question 7
What happens to the hitpoints? A psicrystal has half Masters hitpoints. Do they change in any way from the Metamorphosis? If we think that the saves stay the same, so should probably the hitpoints. So pretty much the Psicrystal trump Metamorphosis in every way? But that would mean that the crystal needs to have its self propultion activated or it has not str and dex. :smalleek:

[jok]

I think I understand most of it now.

We follow the rule:
Specific beats general. If there is no specific we follow general. If there are two specific we follow time.

That means we look at Matamorphosis and the psicrystal entries and apply the rule above.
That clears up hitpoints. We use specific rule. Use half Masters.
That clears up saves. We use specific rule. Use Masters base save and ability mod.
That clears up attack value. We use general rule. BAB + str mod + size mod in this case.
That clears up no str and dex. We use specific of psicrystal first and after that we use specific of Metamorphosis.


Thank you.

[Urpriest]

So do the hitpoints change because of changed con? Does the Hydra get its strength to AT then?
I know that these questions sound strange, but it also tells us to change type. And if I look at types in the SRD they tell you BAB, hit dice... . Contrary to Polymorph and Alter Self wich tell you to keep BAB, hit dice, hitpoints.

In general, these spells don't modify your hit dice, and thus don't modify anything directly derived from hit dice. It's the traits/features distinction. If you're not familiar with that you should probably read my Monster Handbook, link in sig.

[atemu1234]

Lesee here.

#1 Yup:

Emphasis mine.



So the Psion gets to ride around on his psicrystal hydra (I'm calling that a psidra now)?

[jok]

In general, these spells don't modify your hit dice, and thus don't modify anything directly derived from hit dice. It's the traits/features distinction. If you're not familiar with that you should probably read my Monster Handbook, link in sig.

Nice handbook!

So I gather changing type doesn´t do anything to hit dice, BAB, saves, skills and feats. Unless specifcly noted by some spell, power or thing.


But this leads then to my next question.

A psicrystal’s characteristics depend on its master. Its Hit Dice are equal to its master’s Hit Dice (counting only levels in psion or wilder), its hit points are equal to half its master’s, and its saving throw bonuses are the same as its master’s.
From here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/psicrystal.htm)

A Psion's psicrystal would have a d4 hit dice then?

And this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals) line

A psicrystal is treated as a construct for the purposes of all effects that depend on its type.
does not contradict d4 hit dice then?

[Segev]

From here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/psicrystal.htm)

A Psion's psicrystal would have a d4 hit dice then?

And this (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals) line

does not contradict d4 hit dice then?

No. It has a number of hit dice equal to its master's levels in Psion/Wilder. It does not have the same type/size of HD as its master. It has construct HD. It just has a number of them equal to its master's Psion/Wilder level.

[jok]

Hit Die singular, Hit Diece plural. That explains my confusion...

Now the only question that remains is what happens to the natural armor?

[Rubik]

Hit Die singular, Hit Diece Dice plural. That explains my confusion...

Now the only question that remains is what happens to the natural armor?No matter what form the psicrystal Metamorphosises into, it retains all of its psicrystal granted abilities, including Int bonus and natural armor bonus. It's still your psicrystal, after all.

Think of them like its class abilities.

[jok]

Alright, I already learned alot about the RAW its beauty and its uglyness :smallcool:

Now I will try to do an example.

Metamorphosis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metamorphosis.htm) of level 10 Psion's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm) Psicrystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/psicrystal.htm) into a 12 Headed Hydra (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/hydra.htm) using the Overchannel (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#overchannel) feat.

Twelve-Headed Hydra (Psicrystal)
Size/Type: Huge Magical Beast (Anything else like the Augumented Subtype?)
Hit Dice: 10d8 (0.5 x Psion hitpoints) (Construct HD and half master hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), swim 20 ft., fly 50ft. poor (to use fly the Psion need to will it with standart action)
Armor Class: 22 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +13 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 20 (natural armor of psicrystal would be +4, but since nat. armor does not stack we use the better one (hydra))
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+20 (BAB of construct)
Attack: 12 bites +11 melee (1d10+6) (7(bab)+6(str)-2(size); damage: 1d10 (no improved nat attack feat) +6 str)
Full Attack: 12 bites +11 melee (1d10+6)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft. 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: — —
Special Qualities: psicrystal granted abilities (Psicrystal Qualities, all EX from here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm) (Psion crystal entry) loosing all construct traits from here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm) no hardness) (monster entry)
Saves: like Psion (psicrystal uses its master's base save + ability mod)
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 12, Con 20, Int x, Wis x, Cha x ( x is unchanged from psicrystal before metamorph)
Skills: like before +2 spot and listen, +8 swim, new ability mods
Feats: combat refelxes + original psicrystal feats (combat reflexes is hydra racial bonus feat)
Alignment: psi crystal

Is that the correct stat block of our little friend?

I tried to use "specific beats general rule"
The hardness 8 of the psicrystal monster entry is lost right? Since it is a special quality from the monster entry and is not part of the psicrystal special qualities depending on its masters HD.
Since the psicrystal gets no darkvision or low light vision he has a viewing distance of 40ft. because of the sighted ability?