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View Full Version : Why is Monkey Grip bad?



Lubber
2015-04-22, 06:18 AM
I've heard people saying that Monkey Grip is a bad feat or a 'trap' quite a lot, and I wonder why. I know that a character with Monkey Grip doesn't get extra reach and still suffers the -2 penalty for using an oversized weapon, but isn't that worth it for the extra damage? If I, say, use a Large greatsword instead of a Medium greatsword, my damage increases from 2d6 to 3d6, which equals an additional 3.5 points of damage for a -2 attack roll penalty. That's better than Power Attack.

EDIT: Just realised that two-handed weapons get double damage from Power Attack!

Am I overlooking something here? I'm not saying Monkey Grip is the best feat ever, but is it really that bad?

In case you're not familiar with the feat, here's the description:


Monkey Grip [General]
You are able to use a larger weapon than other people your size.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +1.
Benefit: You can use melee weapons one size category larger than you are with a –2 penalty on the attack roll, but the amount of effort it takes you to use the weapon does not change. For instance, a Large longsword (a one-handed weapon for a Large creature) is considered a two-handed weapon for a Medium creature that does not have this feat. For a Medium creature that has this feat, it is still considered a one-handed weapon. You can wield a larger light weapon as a light weapon, or a larger two-handed weapon in two hands. You cannot wield a larger weapon in your off hand, and you cannot use this feat with a double weapon.
Normal: You can use a melee weapon one size category larger than you are with a –2 penalty on the attack roll, and the amount of effort it takes to use the weapon increases. A larger light weapon is considered a one-handed weapon, a larger onehanded weapon is considered a two-handed weapon, and you cannot use a larger two-handed weapon at all.

The Glyphstone
2015-04-22, 06:24 AM
Yes, you missed something, and yes it's that bad.

You cited a Large Greatsword gaining +3.5 average damage for -2 to hit over a Medium greatsword. Except you forgot that Power Attack has a 2x multiplier for 2-handed weapons, so that Medium greatsword Power Attacking for 2 points would be getting a +4 to damage, better than Monkey Grip. And you could turn Power Attack off if you needed to.

Lubber
2015-04-22, 06:29 AM
Yes, I forgot that. I just re-read the description of Power Attack and fixed that.

eggynack
2015-04-22, 06:32 AM
Even without power attack, it's still just a kinda mediocre damage boost feat. You're getting a significantly worse rate out of the deal than you get with weapon specialization, and weapon specialization is awful. Best case scenario, monkey grip is just a marginal numeric feat, and marginal numeric feats are not where you want to be in D&D. Big numeric feats, sure, but you better be going pretty big to justify skipping out on something of qualitative benefit.

Chronos
2015-04-22, 06:41 AM
There's also the matter that it doesn't stack with many other similar effects, like the Powerful Build racial ability or Strongarm Bracers. If you're only going to benefit from one of those, it might as well be one of the better ones.

Rubik
2015-04-22, 08:11 AM
There's also the matter that it doesn't stack with many other similar effects, like the Powerful Build racial ability or Strongarm Bracers. If you're only going to benefit from one of those, it might as well be one of the better ones.The strongarm bracers are the way to go. They're cheap, they don't cost a (very rare and thus valuable) feat, and if you find a weapon of your size category that you'd rather use, you haven't permanently wasted said valuable resource.

atemu1234
2015-04-22, 09:24 AM
The strongarm bracers are the way to go. They're cheap, they don't cost a (very rare and thus valuable) feat, and if you find a weapon of your size category that you'd rather use, you haven't permanently wasted said valuable resource.

^better advice than I could have given.

Necroticplague
2015-04-22, 09:33 AM
The strongarm bracers are the way to go. They're cheap, they don't cost a (very rare and thus valuable) feat, and if you find a weapon of your size category that you'd rather use, you haven't permanently wasted said valuable resource.

And they don't have the -2 to attack, IIRC.