Minimum caster level needed to cast a spell?

[SinsI]

SRD, Creating Magic Items states that:

A creator can create an item at a lower caster level than her own, but never lower than the minimum level needed to cast the needed spell.

What exactly is a "minimum caster level needed to cast a spell"?
From SRD:

You can cast a spell at a lower caster level than normal, but the caster level you choose must be high enough for you to cast the spell in question, and all level-dependent features must be based on the same caster level.
It implies that the minimum caster level depends on the creator in question.

Wait, wait! When what about Rapid Spell Progression classes?
Ur-Priest only needs a caster level of 9 to cast 9th level Divine spells.
Sublime chord (without enty tricks) needs 14 levels for Arcane spells.

Chameleon can cast both 1st and 2nd level spells at caster level 2 - so items he creates with 1st level spells are going to be more expensive, and 2nd level are going to be cheaper...

Wouldn't this wreck all the item costs?

[atemu1234]

Yes, though finding an Ur-Priest willing to make items for you sounds like a pain.

[SinsI]

Yes, though finding an Ur-Priest willing to make items for you sounds like a pain.
But what if you are someone that can't (and don't need to) actually cast that spell, like a 12th level Warlock using his Imbue Item ability? What exactly would he need to craft, say, a Scroll of Miracle, or some other spell that doesn't benefit in the slightest from higher caster level?

[atemu1234]

But what if you are someone that can't (and don't need to) actually cast that spell, like a 12th level Warlock using his Imbue Item ability? What exactly would he need to craft, say, a Scroll of Miracle, or some other spell that doesn't benefit in the slightest from higher caster level?

Essentially yes. Though I am away from book, so the exact wording for Imbue Item eludes me.

[illyahr]

Let's not forget the Deities and Demigods book. A creature with a Divine Rank of at least 1 can grant spells. They can cast any Domain spell they can grant spontaneously at will with a caster level equal to 10 + their divine rank. This means that a 1 HD creature with a divine rank of 1 can, at will, spontaneously cast 9th-level spells with a caster level of 11.

It's even worse if their 1 HD is in a class that grants divine casting. Then they can spontaneously cast any spell they can grant.

[JoranShadeslayr]

Warlocks only need a UMD check to create a magic item. For an item that requires a 9th level spell the DC is 24 if it's an arcane spell and 34 if it's divine, and Warlocks can take 10 on UMD.

[Zaq]

I think there was a discussion of this in one of the Dysfunctional Rules threads, but I don't remember which one.

Anyway, yeah, I think the intent was to have a formula for this sort of thing based on the base classes that prepare spells (Wizard, Cleric, Druid), where the minimum caster level is something like [(Spell Level × 2) – 1] (minimum 1). But as you've pointed out, the existence of nontraditional casting classes really messes with that, and WotC never actually explicitly defined such a formula. (They almost did—DMG pg. 283 specifies that the minimum caster level for a scroll is "usually twice the spell's level, minus 1," but that "usually" in there messes things up.) So yeah, by the strict rules, items made by nontraditional casters have wonky CL and wonky prices. Again, the rules for scrolls kind of halfheartedly specify that scrolls are assumed to be Wizard scrolls over Sorcerer scrolls or Bard scrolls, and assumed to be Cleric/Druid scrolls over Paladin/Ranger scrolls and Cleric scrolls over Druid scrolls, but that only affects premade scrolls you buy off the rack or find in chests, not scrolls you scribe yourself or custom-order. That kind of serves as precedent that you assume that items are made by the most expected class unless proven otherwise—far from ironclad RAW, but enough for me to believe that it's RAI.

Ultimately, it's kind of a gap in the rules, but I wouldn't at all fault your GM for specifying that you can't find an Ur-Priest scroll or a Trapsmith scroll without hunting down an Ur-Priest or a Trapsmith to custom-make one for you. If you ARE an Ur-Priest or a Trapsmith, then I guess you'd just follow the rules as normal (find the CL where your class can cast the spell, then plug that into the item creation cost formula), bearing in mind that items that are cheaper because of low CL are going to have, well, low CL. (That scroll of Haste made by a Trapsmith is only going to last one round, as opposed to the typical five rounds of a normal scroll of Haste.)

Of course, wondrous items that aren't spell trigger or spell completion items have required CLs that aren't necessarily related to the spell or spells used in their creation. The Bottle of Air, for example, requires CL 7 to create, even though Water Breathing is a 3rd level spell (thus normally requiring CL 5). Even if you can cast Water Breathing at CL 3, you still need CL 7 to make a Bottle of Air, because that's what the book says it requires. (Of course, most wondrous items don't directly factor CL into their creation cost, so that might be a moot point.)

But yeah. It's kind of a weird gap in the rules, but I think RAI is clear enough that a GM can be forgiven for not letting the exceptional cases be anything other than exceptions.