Going Blackguard without knowing it: discuss

[hamishspence]

In D&D, there is precedent. several characters who believe they are still good, being tested by their gods...but have blackguard levels. Gareth Cormareil in Waterdeep: City of Splendours 3.5 ed sourcebook, and Michael Ambrose, Witch Slayer, in Tome of Magic 3.5 book.

So, if Miko was to go blackguard, would it be resolved this way, with her gaining power, not knowing where from, and assuming the gods are testing her by removing her normal powers?

[Hinton]

Considering how delusional she is, I'd say anything is possible.

Of course, there's always a chance for other things to happen as well.

[Lorde]

Rules are guidelines people, not unbreakable oaths.

Even if this was the case, on Dungeons and Dragons past, only humans could be Paladins.

I can make a evil fighter character on my tabletop who walk around the world slaying people and burning villages, some evil God can take a liking for my random destruction and bestow me some power.

Mind you, my char actually may not even know what a God is, he may be just a ignorant brute who like gore and pillage too much, but in game terms, it would work as a Blackguard.

He could just think it was all natural, but the god won't mind since he is doing his work anyway.

[NeonRonin]

Even if Miko doesn't notice it, Rich might give us the old *nudge nudge wink wink* by darkening or changing the color of her clothes again. I'm not saying that's what he has planned, but her shirt did go from white to gray. Still, whether she goes BG or not is yet to be seen anyhow.

[Bel_Bel]

I think that that is exactly what will happen. Miko will become a blackguard, but not realize it.

That'd be so cool!:smallbiggrin:

[Tharivol123]

I think the white to gray was just an additional step to show the dramatic change in her character. Granted, she has a good start on her way towards becoming blackgaurd after what she did to Sabine.

[Pokemaster]

There's probably a rule somewhere that's set up for people who want to pick new class levels according to some dice roll, so it might be possible.

[Erk]

I think the white to gray was just an additional step to show the dramatic change in her character. Granted, she has a good start on her way towards becoming blackgaurd after what she did to Sabine.

Huh? Attacking an evil outsider who was trying to convince her to sell her soul was a step towards becoming a blackguard?

I, for one, think it would be kinda dumb if Miko became a blackguard. My argument still stands, a paladin is not a sith. Falling does not mean they have to become their opposite... yet paladins becoming blackguards is so played out it's just exhausted as a story.

[Alysar]

I think the white to gray was just an additional step to show the dramatic change in her character. Granted, she has a good start on her way towards becoming blackgaurd after what she did to Sabine.

Miko snapped Sabine's neck, twisting her head all the way around when Sabine tried to convince her to join the 'dark side'... AND Sabine was coming on to her. How is this a step towards blackguard?

[MReav]

Miko snapped Sabine's neck, twisting her head all the way around when Sabine tried to convince her to join the 'dark side'... AND Sabine was coming on to her. How is this a step towards blackguard?

She's clearly a gay basher!

[Levant]

... yet paladins becoming blackguards is so played out it's just exhausted as a story.

Yeah, but Rich is a hack obviously. I mean, the whole save the world thing has been done many more times than the paladin turning evil cliche and what's the Order's goal again? Save the world from the great evil. Jeez, this comic is a load of crap.

[jindra34]

Miko snapped Sabine's neck, twisting her head all the way around when Sabine tried to convince her to join the 'dark side'... AND Sabine was coming on to her. How is this a step towards blackguard?

Its not the encouter has to be friendly and that was definitely not friendly...

[Alysar]

Yeah, but Rich is a hack obviously. I mean, the whole save the world thing has been done many more times than the paladin turning evil cliche and what's the Order's goal again? Save the world from the great evil. Jeez, this comic is a load of crap.



You're just begging for trouble. Aren't you.

[Levant]

You're just begging for trouble. Aren't you.

Not really. Just tired of all this "Miko turning Blackguard would be cliche and stupid and WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" nonsense. It's as though the people here don't realize that making fun of the rules and cliches in the genre is where a lot of the humor comes from.

[Chalcara]

I think you prolly just need some new sarcasmn detectors, Alysar.

It was just an answer to the "becoming blackguard is soooooooo cliche" argument, and Levant is right: Most plotpoints in this comic are cliche, it's part of it's charm.

Come to think of, there are so many stories told these days that we're hard pressed to find any rough plot that's not cliche.

[Kashkalgar]

It's as though the people here don't realize that making fun of the rules and cliches in the genre is where a lot of the humor comes from.

Amen. Immature humorists borrow. Mature humorists steal.

[Alysar]

I think you prolly just need some new sarcasmn detectors, Alysar.


My sarcasm detectors don't work very well when I am sitting up past 1 in the morning waiting for the new comic to get posted.

[jindra34]

My sarcasm detectors don't work very well when I am sitting up past 1 in the morning waiting for the new comic to get posted.

Truth be told your faring better than me...

[SumGuy]

RAW, dont you need peaceful contact with an evil outsider?

thus far, I dont think her any encounter she could have with Sabine qualifies as that, or even civil for that matter. I dont see how she could go Blackguard without knowing this; Giant's world however, has shown several departures from the standard rules, so who knows?

[BisectedBrioche]

Miko's already quite clearly evil, she decided the killing of a creature was justified based on its external pigmentation after all.

[Maltrich]

Meh, I don't know. If I were her, I'd be pretty wary of any powers I suddenly developed. After all, the gods I was just serving let me receive a vision, decide to act on it, and kill my treacherous ruler without any warning that they didn't want me to, and then revoked my paladinly powers. I don't know about 3e, but in AD&D 2e I'm pretty sure the bit about Fallen Paladins in the DMG stated that players should receive some kind of warning if they're about to unwittingly trespass against their deity (obviously, if they're pushing at the rules just for the hell of it, you just zap 'em, but Miko was convinced she was following a divine command). This smacks of divine mismanagement, or even conspiracy. Perhaps they wanted Shojo dead, commanded their faithful servant, then disposed of said servant when they were done. If I were Miko, I wouldn't take them back for all the divine powers in the world, and if those are the good gods I certainly wouldn't let any evil entities go mucking around with my psyche. At the first sign of such powers, I would find a powerful non-god-worshipping cleric and get my soul warded against such intrusion.

[CardinalFang]

Meh, I don't know. If I were her, I'd be pretty wary of any powers I suddenly developed. After all, the gods I was just serving let me receive a vision, decide to act on it, and kill my treacherous ruler without any warning that they didn't want me to, and then revoked my paladinly powers. I don't know about 3e, but in AD&D 2e I'm pretty sure the bit about Fallen Paladins in the DMG stated that players should receive some kind of warning if they're about to unwittingly trespass against their deity (obviously, if they're pushing at the rules just for the hell of it, you just zap 'em, but Miko was convinced she was following a divine command). This smacks of divine mismanagement, or even conspiracy. Perhaps they wanted Shojo dead, commanded their faithful servant, then disposed of said servant when they were done. If I were Miko, I wouldn't take them back for all the divine powers in the world, and if those are the good gods I certainly wouldn't let any evil entities go mucking around with my psyche. At the first sign of such powers, I would find a powerful non-god-worshipping cleric and get my soul warded against such intrusion.
But that's not how she thinks at all. She thinks that this is all some kind of test, and that her gods are seeing how loyal she is, and testing her resolve against the evil Order of the Stick, even if they take away her powers. If she got any kind of Blackguard powers, she'd probably think they were a reward from her gods for believing in them and persecuting the OotS.

[jindra34]

Meh, I don't know. If I were her, I'd be pretty wary of any powers I suddenly developed. After all, the gods I was just serving let me receive a vision, decide to act on it, and kill my treacherous ruler without any warning that they didn't want me to, and then revoked my paladinly powers. I don't know about 3e, but in AD&D 2e I'm pretty sure the bit about Fallen Paladins in the DMG stated that players should receive some kind of warning if they're about to unwittingly trespass against their deity (obviously, if they're pushing at the rules just for the hell of it, you just zap 'em, but Miko was convinced she was following a divine command). This smacks of divine mismanagement, or even conspiracy. Perhaps they wanted Shojo dead, commanded their faithful servant, then disposed of said servant when they were done. If I were Miko, I wouldn't take them back for all the divine powers in the world, and if those are the good gods I certainly wouldn't let any evil entities go mucking around with my psyche. At the first sign of such powers, I would find a powerful non-god-worshipping cleric and get my soul warded against such intrusion.
I believe Hinjo was Miko's warning...
and such rules no longer exist in 3.5...
good point though...

[Erk]

Not really. Just tired of all this "Miko turning Blackguard would be cliche and stupid and WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA" nonsense. It's as though the people here don't realize that making fun of the rules and cliches in the genre is where a lot of the humor comes from.

First off, "saving the world" is a lot broader category than "paladin becomes blackguard". Second, I have no doubt Rich would tell a good, funny story about Miko becoming one, but frankly I have come to expect him being a lot more original... and more importantly, making his characters a little more true to life. You're allowed to think whatever you want, and if you like the plot idea, great... I'm just as tired, though, of hearing "Miko should become a blackguard, can't you see how great it would be!?!" as you are of hearing "Paladins-turned-blackguards are frigging played out", I would imagine.

[Tredrick]

Its not the encouter has to be friendly and that was definitely not friendly...

What's a little neck snapping between friends?

[The Extinguisher]

You can't become a Blackguard by accident. Sure it just says peaceful encounter, but if that were true, if an evil outsider was to get a summer job at a resturant for some reason, any person she waited tables for would get that Blackguard requirment. I would think that the outsider and Blackguard-to-be have to be discussing evil. And as we can see in the Oots world, Blackguards are actively recruited by demons and devils, so the Blackguard-to-be would be knowingly participating in the deal.

Plus there is the fact that they know what class they are leveling up in, so the entire thing is pointless.

I don't think that Miko will become a Blackguard, as she's too committed towards to Law to have time for Good and Evil. Besides the fact that she'd never openly sumbit to evil.

[Tharivol123]

Miko snapped Sabine's neck, twisting her head all the way around when Sabine tried to convince her to join the 'dark side'... AND Sabine was coming on to her. How is this a step towards blackguard?

Sorry, haven't read this thread for a while. Lets remember, she snapped the neck of someone who was defenseless shortly after she killed a defenseless old man. Both are evil acts, even if one was against an evil character.
Its not that much of a stretch to see her falling even further as she commits even more evil acts.

[Innis Cabal]

how do you figure killing an evil person is evil? Well i guess you have no paladins in your world.

[EvilElitest]

Yeah, but Rich is a hack obviously. I mean, the whole save the world thing has been done many more times than the paladin turning evil cliche and what's the Order's goal again? Save the world from the great evil. Jeez, this comic is a load of crap.

I hope your being sarcastic because their is a difference between being a hack and writing a pardoy. OOTS is a parady, a really good one, but a parody to the core, one of the funniest in the world

Now i don't think it is right to just shoot of insults like that without a /sarcastic note
And your use of the word hack is incorrect grammaticlly, as Rich has not repersented any company/powerful person as he runs this website himself, unless you count the Fruit Pie guy
from,
EE
Edit: Whoops i didn't read the rest of the thread, well i deserve that sorry for my words

[kreszantas]

Aribeth

For those who know where the name comes from, then you know the outcome

[Tharivol123]

Innis, killing a person is not an evil act. Killing a defenseless person is, however. Both Shojo and Sabine (although she didn't actually die) were defenseless when Miko attacked them. The fact that Sabine is evil makes no difference in this.
Sabine was also a defenseless prisoner, so it could be argued that it was unlawful as well.
While I'm not saying she will become blackguard, and I agree that it can't happen without you being aware of it, every action Miko has taken since confronting Shojo has driven her further and further from a Paladin's path. In time, I could see her turning blackguard under a set of certain circumstances.

[Alysar]

Innis, killing a person is not an evil act. Killing a defenseless person is, however. Both Shojo and Sabine (although she didn't actually die) were defenseless when Miko attacked them. The fact that Sabine is evil makes no difference in this.
Sabine was also a defenseless prisoner, so it could be argued that it was unlawful as well.
While I'm not saying she will become blackguard, and I agree that it can't happen without you being aware of it, every action Miko has taken since confronting Shojo has driven her further and further from a Paladin's path. In time, I could see her turning blackguard under a set of certain circumstances.

I of course agree with you on Shojo, but what if Miko knew that snapping Sabine's neck wouldn't kill her? Would that make a difference?

A prisoner who has been condemned to death and is tied to the chopping block is defenseless. Is it an evil act when the official state executioner cuts their head off?

[jindra34]

I of course agree with you on Shojo, but what if Miko knew that snapping Sabine's neck wouldn't kill her? Would that make a difference?

A prisoner who has been condemned to death and is tied to the chopping block is defenseless. Is it an evil act when the official state executioner cuts their head off?

Depends on who you ask... there are a whole kit and kibbutle of people who would say yes and at least as many who would say no...

[moscatabaco]

IMO...

Yes, turning :miko: into a Blackguard sounds like a logical step, and yes, is predictable and cliched. Bot that's also the case of the evil twin, and IMO the giant haldled that masterfully. Heck, the entire clicke is there, down to the goddamn goatee, and still WORKS!!! :nale:

Who knows? It might or might not happen. Like a sith, a paladin might become blackguard without realizing it, at the point in which (s)he stops caring. It's not a sudden, dramatic decision; they cross the line when they stop caring about the boundarie. So it may still happen.

BTW, twisting the head of a fiend trying to turn you to the dark side is NOT an evil act. Hell, I don't think she would have fallen for killing :belkar:, either (after all, he was guilty of manslaughter, escaping prison and was attaking her).

[Tharivol123]

For the first part, in a campaign setting I would rule with it being an evil act still. She is still making an attack against a defenseless being. To my knowledge that earns it evil status. I have even been the victim of losing Paladinhood under similar circumstances.

For the state ordered execution aspect, I would say that executing a prisoner is a lawful evil act, but I am opposed to the death penalty IRL and refuse using it in campaign settings (outside of evil settings). There is a reason that the majority of kingdoms with a strong Paladin presence do not execute prisoners.

[The Extinguisher]

Paladins =/= Jedi

There is a middle ground. Not all Fallen Paladins become Blackguards.

[GiantofEntropy]

Paladins =/= Jedi

There is a middle ground. Not all Fallen Paladins become Blackguards.

All fallen Jedi don't become Sith. Haven't you ever heard of the Grey Jedi?

[Rasumichin]

Going grayguard could be an option, i think.
The changed colour of Miko's clothes could be a giveaway at that.
But then, not owning complete divine (or whereever grayguard is in), i'm not familliar with this class, so i might be wrong.

[Khoran]

Going grayguard could be an option, i think.
The changed colour of Miko's clothes could be a giveaway at that.
But then, not owning complete divine (or whereever grayguard is in), i'm not familliar with this class, so i might be wrong.

It's in Complete Scoundrel, incase you ever want to check it out.

However, I doubt Miko would end up being a grayguard for a few reasons. The first is that Miko fell, removing her (so far) from any possible way to join. The second is that she is too much of a zealot and is sure she is always in the right, neither of which say grayguard to me, as Grayguards seem to be portrayed as more realistic, calmer and repentant of the grim tasks they have to do. Third, it's not OGL, we wouldn't want the lawyers carting Miko off now would we.

[Levant]

First off, "saving the world" is a lot broader category than "paladin becomes blackguard". Second, I have no doubt Rich would tell a good, funny story about Miko becoming one, but frankly I have come to expect him being a lot more original... and more importantly, making his characters a little more true to life. You're allowed to think whatever you want, and if you like the plot idea, great... I'm just as tired, though, of hearing "Miko should become a blackguard, can't you see how great it would be!?!" as you are of hearing "Paladins-turned-blackguards are frigging played out", I would imagine.

To be honest, I don't really care about Miko's fate. If she isn't going to remain an antagonist to the Order than I'd rather she just rot in jail for the remainder of her life. If she does remain an antagonist, I don't really know how she can do so without going evil. I mean, yes, she can remain good and still oppose them, but she can't do so and remain a Paladin (assuming she gets attoned at some point.) She can't really remain good and be effective at opposing them, cause those paladin levels won't be doing her any good without the powers that come along with them.

And frankly, I don't think it's very cliche at all that she'd become a blackguard eventually (key word here people: eventually.) I think some of you read these forums too much, and seeing all kinds of discussion about Miko becoming a blackguard a year or more before she even falls has lead you to think it cliche because of it. I think Rich has expressed how he dislikes all the speculation that goes on and I think this totally validates that.

[Akaziel]

Miko will be a Blackguard. She won't realize it, but she'll do it.

[Alysar]

Going grayguard could be an option, i think.
The changed colour of Miko's clothes could be a giveaway at that.
But then, not owning complete divine (or whereever grayguard is in), i'm not familliar with this class, so i might be wrong.

Any such thing as a Beigeguard?

[SPoD]

Innis, killing a person is not an evil act. Killing a defenseless person is, however. Both Shojo and Sabine (although she didn't actually die) were defenseless when Miko attacked them.

Even in an antimagic cell, Sabine has claws, damage reduction, and a substantial natural armor bonus. She is NEVER defenseless.

Further, Sabine is not merely an evil person, she is an idealogical construct of pure unmitigated evil made into physical form. Attacking an outsider with the Evil subtype is never an evil act, it just might not be a Good one (though even then, it often is).

[Rasumichin]

Any such thing as a Beigeguard?

Hey, at least her shirt (or tunic, or whatever that is she is wearing over her suit of armor) turned gray.

[Alysar]

Any such thing as a Beigeguard?


Hey, at least her shirt (or tunic, or whatever that is she is wearing over her suit of armor) turned gray.

Hmm.. Beigeguard could be cool. Like a paladin from Futurama's 'Neutral Planet'

[Rasumichin]

Beigeguard...
finally, i have found a name for my TN "Paladin of indifference" class concept.
Thanks a lot!

[GAZ]

I'd just like to share my view on a few of the issues raised here.

1) Miko is not Evil. Miko was at least the smallest iota on the Good side of the Good/Neutral dividing line. She committed one horrible evil act of her own free will. That is enough to make her fall from Paladinhood and possibly change to the Lawful Neutral alignment. I seriously doubt that her one Evil act ever was enough to push her from Good to Evil. Even if she is Neutral, she likely mistakenly thinks that she's still Good.

2) Miko is probably never going to atone for her Evil act. She's a delusional, self righteous bitch. She'll probably never admit that she did anything wrong, never atone, never regain her Paladinhood and NEVER gain lvls in Grayguard (which is totally not Miko flavored at all). I wouldn't put it past The Giant to have her grow as a Good character and possibly redeem herself.

3) Blackguard? That's trickier. Miko might believe that she is infailable and the gods did wrong in depriving her of her righteous power. She might quest for more power to do what she thinks she needs to do to be right. That power might come in the form of lvls in Blackguard and damn the false gods and their evil servants The Order of the Stick if they intend to stop the mighty and good Miko Miyazaki!

4) Attacking Sabine was not an Evil act. She is made out of pure Evil with claws and natural armor and other mean nastiness. Sabine provoked Miko and got what she deserved.

[Roderick_BR]

Hmm... could happen. A paladin that gets too "trigger" happy about killing (those he considers) evil beings, instead of helping people, and starts to find excuses, like when Miko killed Lord Shojo, could fall and become a black guard, believeing he is still doing the "right thing."
I kinda doubt Miko would go that route, tough, since she already knows that her gods "betrayed" her.

[Kreistor]

1) Miko is not Evil. Miko was at least the smallest iota on the Good side of the Good/Neutral dividing line. She committed one horrible evil act of her own free will.

See elsewhere huge debates on this topic.

Miko evil thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38143)

It's great that you think this, but the argument on this is unresolved, and we don't need it repeated here.


3) Blackguard? That's trickier. Miko might believe that she is infailable and the gods did wrong in depriving her of her righteous power.

Miko will never believe ill of the gods. She is praying to them now, even as Xykon assails the walls. She will need to find the reason for why she was stripped of her powers.

Finding a reason can lead Miko down a new path... one that suggests that the gods want her to take up a different power to fight those she sees as evil. Who is evil to her, now? The OotS, Hinjo, etc. -- the good guys. What weapon do you use against good guys? Evil. It isn't a huge step for her to be walked through that kind of a thought process by some malevolent outsider -- one that isn't a joke like Sabine.

All Miko needs is the right kind of outsider and she can place her foot on the Blackguard path willingly.

[Silverlocke980]

You know, after all this bloody discussion, I don't *want* Miko to go Blackguard.

My new question is, what about her Monk levels? Anything Rich can do with that? We're all focused on Paladin, because that's what we know Miko as- a Paladin with some Monk levels- but with the loss of her paladin path, who knows? She may turn to something on her Monk side.

As for the running argument about cliche/hack/etc., I'll just say this: every stereotype exists because it is a poor copy of something that, at one point, was well-written, new, and wonderful.

And a truly good writer (as Rich has consistently proven himself to be) can make the worst stereotype on the planet fresh agani.

[Alysar]

Beigeguard...
finally, i have found a name for my TN "Paladin of indifference" class concept.
Thanks a lot!

You are very welcome. :smallsmile:

If you post it online, send me a link. I'd like to see it.

[Tharivol123]

My new question is, what about her Monk levels? Anything Rich can do with that? We're all focused on Paladin, because that's what we know Miko as- a Paladin with some Monk levels- but with the loss of her paladin path, who knows? She may turn to something on her Monk side.

Can't be done. As soon as she took a level as Paladin, she lost the ability to raise her monk levels. Along the same path, if she takes another class now she can never advance as a Paladin either (even with atonement).
At least that's how it is written in 3.0.
She does still maintain all of her monk abilities, but unless she atones before leveling, her Paladin level will remain set as it currently is.
I don't think that blocks her prestige classes with a monk base, but I could be wrong.

[Rasumichin]

You are very welcome. :smallsmile:

If you post it online, send me a link. I'd like to see it.

I'll definitely do so, but expect it to take some time, since i'm new to 3.x and have to get into most of the crunchy bits first.

[Cade Shadow]

Can't be done. As soon as she took a level as Paladin, she lost the ability to raise her monk levels. Along the same path, if she takes another class now she can never advance as a Paladin either (even with atonement).
At least that's how it is written in 3.0.
She does still maintain all of her monk abilities, but unless she atones before leveling, her Paladin level will remain set as it currently is.
I don't think that blocks her prestige classes with a monk base, but I could be wrong.

The restriction is still the same in 3.5 but does that restriction apply to prestige classes? or at least not to certain ones (like a divine champion prestige class, if they have one)

[TroyXavier]

In Oriental Adventures I think they removed the Monk multiclassing restriction. With the Eastern lands setting perhaps she could return to Monkhood.

[Copacetic]

I think Rich isn't exastly dropping subtle clues. She went from white to grey. Black is on the opposite end of the spectrum. She's in between. She is undecided.

[Tharivol123]

The restriction is still the same in 3.5 but does that restriction apply to prestige classes? or at least not to certain ones (like a divine champion prestige class, if they have one)

From what I've read in Complete Warrior, she could go Drunken Master, Reaping Mauler, Ronin, or possibly Occult Slayer (if she has the Knowledge Arcana ranks needed). Every other prestige class I've seen require a weapon proficiency she probably doesn't have or ranks in a skill I doubt she put ranks in (i.e. 5 ranks of Gather Information for a Justiciar or 5 of Diplomacy for a Kensai).

I don't see The Giant putting in a Drunken Master and the Reaping Mauler doesn't strike as Miko-like. Ronin could make sense, if Hinjo kicks her out of Azure City as punishment after they defeat Xykon. Occult Slayer would work as well, since they are designed to destroy arcane spell casters, and she has good reason to hate Xykon.

So, her options seem to be Blackguard, Drunken Master, Reaping Mauler, Ronin, Occult Slayer, or just starting a new base character class. Of those, I think Ronin or Blackguard hold the most promise, even though they are both cliches.

[MReav]

From what I've read in Complete Warrior, she could go Drunken Master, Reaping Mauler, Ronin, or possibly Occult Slayer (if she has the Knowledge Arcana ranks needed). Every other prestige class I've seen require a weapon proficiency she probably doesn't have or ranks in a skill I doubt she put ranks in (i.e. 5 ranks of Gather Information for a Justiciar or 5 of Diplomacy for a Kensai).

I would argue against the notion that she doesn't have Gather Information. She spoke to a lot of people about the party when tracking them. Maybe not tremendous, but at least a few ranks.

Diplomacy OTOH is agreed.

I vote that if doesn't go Ronin, that she at least declare herself that she is one (or have someone else point out that she is one technically), prompting another Samurai Class Joke.

[Tharivol123]

I would argue against the notion that she doesn't have Gather Information. She spoke to a lot of people about the party when tracking them. Maybe not tremendous, but at least a few ranks.

Diplomacy OTOH is agreed.

I vote that if doesn't go Ronin, that she at least declare herself that she is one (or have someone else point out that she is one technically), prompting another Samurai Class Joke.

I agree she has gather information. I just don't believe she would have the 5 ranks the class require. For both monks and paladins it is cross class, so she would have to spend 10 skill points for those ranks. I just don't see it as likely for that reason, and the fact that we have seen almost no cross-class skills from her at all.

[CardinalFang]

I agree she has gather information. I just don't believe she would have the 5 ranks the class require. For both monks and paladins it is cross class, so she would have to spend 10 skill points for those ranks. I just don't see it as likely for that reason, and the fact that we have seen almost no cross-class skills from her at all.
Except she DOES have Track, which was why she was selected to hunt down the OotS (aside from her personality), even if she only has one rank in Survival. So it's entirely possible that her role as "leaving-Azure-City-to-hunt-down-evildoers-person" may have prompted her to take skills for that job. Putting a full 10 skill points into it may not be the most likely of scenarios, but it's definitely can't be ruled out completely.

[Mewtarthio]

From what I've read in Complete Warrior, she could go Drunken Master, Reaping Mauler, Ronin, or possibly Occult Slayer (if she has the Knowledge Arcana ranks needed). Every other prestige class I've seen require a weapon proficiency she probably doesn't have or ranks in a skill I doubt she put ranks in (i.e. 5 ranks of Gather Information for a Justiciar or 5 of Diplomacy for a Kensai).

I don't see The Giant putting in a Drunken Master and the Reaping Mauler doesn't strike as Miko-like. Ronin could make sense, if Hinjo kicks her out of Azure City as punishment after they defeat Xykon. Occult Slayer would work as well, since they are designed to destroy arcane spell casters, and she has good reason to hate Xykon.

So, her options seem to be Blackguard, Drunken Master, Reaping Mauler, Ronin, Occult Slayer, or just starting a new base character class. Of those, I think Ronin or Blackguard hold the most promise, even though they are both cliches.

Miko gets out of prison. Despondent at the loss of her powers, she heads to a bar and decends into alcoholism. Then, after a fateful bar fight, the Drunken Masters see her potential and train her to be one of them!

...Too bad she can't grow stubble...
...Or can she?

[Tharivol123]

I forgot about her taking Survival, but the fact that she does makes me doubt even more that she has the five ranks in other cross class skills needed for some of the other prestige classes.

Mew: I think Miko would make an interesting drunken master, I just don't see Rich doing it in a comic that kids read. If it weren't for the children, I could totally see this happening.

[MReav]

Mew: I think Miko would make an interesting drunken master, I just don't see Rich doing it in a comic that kids read. If it weren't for the children, I could totally see this happening.

Didn't we see the drunken wizards and drunken Sabine and drunken Belkar?

Remember, Miko is already established as not a role model.

Besides, don't they already use questionable language, plenty of violence, sexual implications, etc? I would think this is probably PG, PG-13?

[jindra34]

Didn't we see the drunken wizards and drunken Sabine and drunken Belkar?

Remember, Miko is already established as not a role model.

Besides, don't they already use questionable language, plenty of violence, sexual implications, etc? I would think this is probably PG, PG-13?

and i believe a semi-drunken durkon...

[Tharivol123]

Yeah, but those are momentary not constant. Everything is up to Rich, though, so I guess we'll see.

[MReav]

and i believe a semi-drunken durkon...

I'm pretty sure we've never seen Durkon drunk (damn that +2 racial bonus vs poison is hard to get through).

But granted, he's still not a role model for human children.

And neither is Thor ("Then, I return to Asgard to woo goddesses and drink an ocean's worth of beer. Huzzah!") #73

[jindra34]

I'm pretty sure we've never seen Durkon drunk (damn that +2 racial bonus vs poison is hard to get through).

But granted, he's still not a role model for human children.

And neither is Thor ("Then, I return to Asgard to woo goddesses and drink an ocean's worth of beer. Huzzah!") #73

Would Thor ever be a good role model?

[Wooter]

I forgot about her taking Survival, but the fact that she does makes me doubt even more that she has the five ranks in other cross class skills needed for some of the other prestige classes.

Mew: I think Miko would make an interesting drunken master, I just don't see Rich doing it in a comic that kids read. If it weren't for the children, I could totally see this happening.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Kids read this?

[CardinalFang]

There's a big difference between someone who is amusingly sloshed and someone who is a depressed alcoholic. Still, I can't help but wonder if Miko would magically loosen up or become even MORE neurotic after a bit of sake...

[EricDerKonig]

I'm pretty sure we've never seen Durkon drunk (damn that +2 racial bonus vs poison is hard to get through).

But granted, he's still not a role model for human children.

And neither is Thor ("Then, I return to Asgard to woo goddesses and drink an ocean's worth of beer. Huzzah!") #73

We see him drink in On the Origin of PCs, and its implied that he's about to drink a lot here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0170.html).
He also drinks at the New Years' Countdown.

EDIT: Sorry, read that as "drink", not "drunk." To my knowledge, we've never seen him drunk, so nevermind.