Ways to counter alignment-concealing effects

[Jowgen]

There are a lot of ways to magically conceal your alignment from someone. Some of these specifically counter divinations (e.g. detect evil), others are more catch all (e.g. Ring of Mind Shielding), while yet some others just go way overboard (mind-blank).

So, what are some ways to overcome such detection-blocking effects?

[Crake]

Disjunction followed by detect evil?

[Ashtagon]

Holy word. Let your deity sort out the bodies.

[Cruiser1]

So, what are some ways to overcome such detection-blocking effects?
Shapechange into a Warden Archon (BoED). It's Unerring Assay (Su) ability allows it to truly perceive alignment, overriding methods of masking alignment such as Misdirection and Nondetection.

In general, anything that operates on whether a creature is actually evil can be used to accurately perceive alignment. For example, Smite Evil with a weak weapon: If the target is just nicked they're not evil, however if they take a lot of damage they're evil.

[Psyren]

Metafaculty (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/metafaculty.htm) beats anything pre-epic. (Arguably, Hypercognition (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/hypercognition.htm) does too - just phrase whatever info you're looking for in the form of a question first, and your subconscious will do the rest.)

For anyone 11+, Legend Lore/Vision will beat almost any defense they try to use... eventually.

[goto124]

In general, anything that operates on whether a creature is actually evil can be used to accurately perceive alignment. For example, Smite Evil with a weak weapon: If the target is just nicked they're not evil, however if they take a lot of damage they're evil.

E.g. A rolled-up towel :D

[Raezeman]

gently poke someone that might be concealing his evil alignment with a holy-enchanted weapon and check for flying sparks.

[Drork]

RP, actually have a lot of interactions with them. They might look good to detection but players are rather sharp when they see the goodly warrior strapping a poison dagger to his boot.

Detect magic/spell craft ... knowing they are using an item that could be use for hiding alignment can raise paranoia to a whole new level.

Asking the "right" question when using divination magic. Dont ask if they are good or evil ask if they are hiding their true aura.

The real question is how to they prove it when the PCs get dragged in front of the magistrate in chains.

[Jowgen]

Disjunction followed by detect evil?

Holy word. Let your deity sort out the bodies.

Two competitors for the nuclear-option title right off the bat :smalltongue:


Shapechange into a Warden Archon (BoED). It's Unerring Assay (Su) ability allows it to truly perceive alignment, overriding methods of masking alignment such as Misdirection and Nondetection.

Nice find :smallsmile:


Metafaculty beats anything pre-epic. (Arguably, Hypercognition does too - just phrase whatever info you're looking for in the form of a question first, and your subconscious will do the rest.)

For anyone 11+, Legend Lore/Vision will beat almost any defense they try to use... eventually.

Of course there's a psionic solution... :smallannoyed:

And we have an honourable mention for the nuclear-option title. :smallbiggrin:


RP, actually have a lot of interactions with them. They might look good to detection but players are rather sharp when they see the goodly warrior strapping a poison dagger to his boot.

Detect magic/spell craft ... knowing they are using an item that could be use for hiding alignment can raise paranoia to a whole new level.

Asking the "right" question when using divination magic. Dont ask if they are good or evil ask if they are hiding their true aura.

The real question is how to they prove it when the PCs get dragged in front of the magistrate in chains.

For the interaction, they'd most certainly be entitled to a disguise or perfrom (act) check to act/talk as if good, though.

Interesting on the detect magic/spellcraft for items front, although a single Nystul's Magic Aura spell would throw a wrench in that method.

Good point on divinations. The magistrate shall tremble before the awesome Good-ness that art us!


In general, anything that operates on whether a creature is actually evil can be used to accurately perceive alignment. For example, Smite Evil with a weak weapon: If the target is just nicked they're not evil, however if they take a lot of damage they're evil.
&

gently poke someone that might be concealing his evil alignment with a holy-enchanted weapon and check for flying sparks.

I am taking special interest in this one. Are we certain Holy Weapons/Towels and Smite Evil work? If yes, how do we explain that they do, in terms of both RAW and Fluff? This might have implications

Lets say we have Nemesis and/or Scent of Evil on a character with Favored Enemy Evil. They're both supernatural (like Holy/Smite). Both of them allow for the pinpointing of evil creatures. If "damage evil creatures" =/= "magically discern alignment", what's to stop "pinpoint evil creatures" =/= "magically discern alignment"?

[Crake]

Lets say we have Nemesis and/or Scent of Evil on a character with Favored Enemy Evil. They're both supernatural (like Holy/Smite). Both of them allow for the pinpointing of evil creatures. If "damage evil creatures" =/= "magically discern alignment", what's to stop "pinpoint evil creatures" =/= "magically discern alignment"?

I didn't realise you could take an alignment as a favoured enemy? I know you can pick Outsider (Evil), but just flat out evil?

[LoyalPaladin]

Mmmm... yes. I find this thread particularly useful. You know... for reasons. I mean- It provides me more tools to protect and serve with.

[Zaq]

I didn't realise you could take an alignment as a favoured enemy? I know you can pick Outsider (Evil), but just flat out evil?

You can't just pick it normally as a Ranger, but Stalker of Kharash (BoED) gets Favored Enemy: Evil, and it works against everything evil (and not just stuff with the [Evil] subtype, either).

There may be another source of it, but Stalker of Kharash is the only one I know of offhand.

[Troacctid]

A Pendant of Redemption (CC) allows you to detect whether a creature is redeemable in the eyes of your god, rather than whether they're evil. That should get around attempts to mask alignment.

[Red Fel]

Mmmm... yes. I find this thread particularly useful. You know... for reasons.

Good! Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.

Seriously, though. A Holy weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#holy) imposes a negative level on any Evil creature wielding it. It's as easy as "Here, hold this."

We did that in one Dragonlance campaign I had. Most of the PCs were either Neutral or Evil; only a couple were actually Good. And we had a sacred artifact. (Hint: it was some manner of spear, in some way related to winged reptiles.) Needless to say, only a couple of people could actually touch the thing without experiencing pain. We also had some pieces of jewelry with a similar effect. These became our go-to Detect Evil. "Here, hold this," was basically how we introduced ourselves to new NPCs.

[LoyalPaladin]

Good! Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.

Seriously, though. A Holy weapon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#holy) imposes a negative level on any Evil creature wielding it. It's as easy as "Here, hold this."

We did that in one Dragonlance campaign I had. Most of the PCs were either Neutral or Evil; only a couple were actually Good. And we had a sacred artifact. (Hint: it was some manner of spear, in some way related to winged reptiles.) Needless to say, only a couple of people could actually touch the thing without experiencing pain. We also had some pieces of jewelry with a similar effect. These became our go-to Detect Evil. "Here, hold this," was basically how we introduced ourselves to new NPCs.
Hahaha. That's awesome. I've never played an evil character... or a neutral character...

I love Dragonlance. I'm not sure words can explain how much I love it. When we were playing, our wizard used finger of death on a gulley dwarf because he wouldn't show us the way. Our cleric was forced to revive him and he showed us the way. Right after I unloaded a quiver full of arrows into our wizard.

[Red Fel]

Hahaha. That's awesome. I've never played an evil character... or a neutral character...

I love Dragonlance. I'm not sure words can explain how much I love it. When we were playing, our wizard used finger of death on a gulley dwarf because he wouldn't show us the way. Our cleric was forced to revive him and he showed us the way. Right after I unloaded a quiver full of arrows into our wizard.

In that campaign I switched from an LE Krynn Minotaur to an LG Noble Draconian. That campaign also featured one of my favorite character endings of all time - in the epilogue, my Draconian left a very sweet letter explaining to the party that he considered them to be horribly deplorable and immoral people, and that he had been invited to a hidden colony of Noble Draconian survivors, in which he would be the token brood male, and screw you guys, I'm gonna go have a harem now. This was the DM's idea. It was quite a slice of brilliance. None of them saw it coming.

[LoyalPaladin]

In that campaign I switched from an LE Krynn Minotaur to an LG Noble Draconian. That campaign also featured one of my favorite character endings of all time - in the epilogue, my Draconian left a very sweet letter explaining to the party that he considered them to be horribly deplorable and immoral people, and that he had been invited to a hidden colony of Noble Draconian survivors, in which he would be the token brood male, and screw you guys, I'm gonna go have a harem now. This was the DM's idea. It was quite a slice of brilliance. None of them saw it coming.
That is beautiful. I wouldn't have seen that coming either. I was a Sylvanesti Ranger/Beast Heart Adept.

If you don't mind, I'm going to send that to my D&D group that I played DL with haha.

[Red Fel]

That is beautiful. I wouldn't have seen that coming either. I was a Sylvanesti Ranger/Beast Heart Adept.

If you don't mind, I'm going to send that to my D&D group that I played DL with haha.

PM me, I'll tell you all about the campaign. At least, as much as I can remember; it was awhile ago.