What's the point of Familiar Intelligence?

[SinsI]

What's the point of Familiar getting higher Intelligence score? They don't gain any class levels, no skill levels and no feats, so what use do they have for higher Intelligence?

[Kraken]

Familiars share your skill ranks. They're basically a second try on all knowledge skills, and many other intelligence based skills, if nothing else.

[GilesTheCleric]

Don't forget the roleplay implications, too. If you're sharing an empathic link or have a familiar with speech, then the difference between infant-like intelligence (3) and something more reasonable (4+, or whatever you/your GM thinks is good) can help mechanically in many low-level situations, and in rp situations at all levels.

[TheNivMizzet]

With a familiar having a higher Int, you can actually treat it like a personality and roleplay that it understands who you are as a person and remember you when you eventually awaken it, keep it as an NPC party member and get a new one.

[Spore]

Don't forget the roleplay implications, too. If you're sharing an empathic link or have a familiar with speech.

Well, I've always had problems to utilize non raven animal familiars for this without looking like an idiot to the group. "My bird just told me that I failed my Knowledge save and that this works entirely different." :smallconfused:

[Elkad]

Well, I've always had problems to utilize non raven animal familiars for this without looking like an idiot to the group. "My bird just told me that I failed my Knowledge save and that this works entirely different." :smallconfused:

Bah.
"My toad hops over and licks the unconscious barbarian's wounds to stabilize him."
Using my heal ranks and his wisdom (higher than mine), he rolls.. 17!

[Bronk]

I always thought the concept of familiar intelligence was pretty thought provoking... eventually the familiar will be smarter than the master! It might happen faster for sorcerers, but it'll happen to wizards eventually too. Who's leading who at that point? If you find an NPC sorcerer that's powerful enough, should you be directing your comments to the wee animal?

Plus, there are some interesting rules for familiars in the book Tome and Blood, stating that when its master dies, a familiar keeps most of its abilities gained from the master's level... it loses it's HP, but keeps everything else up to the master's level minus 2.

It makes me wonder if mistreated familiars might eventually realize they're better off without their master?

Or, if evil creatures on the improved familiars list might not offer their services specifically for the intelligence boost, with the plan being to eventually off their master right from the start?

Meanwhile, couldn't there be others waiting to take advantage of these super intelligent but low HP fiends, ready to swoop in at just the right time to use the 'extract gift' spell on them?

Or, if one familiar might not find a new master? And if they'r epic level, they might get several versions of the 'Familiar Spell' ability as well. Craziness!

[ericgrau]

Role-play I think.

Skill checks are fun too. Not only int based skills but also simply being smart enough to communicate well and perform general tasks.

All of these are important to me because I've always seen familiars a a blank slate character, a basic body for your wizardy plans. It's a great alternative to using a fellow PC when you need someone as a target for such and such spell and the other characters are too busy with their own ideas.

I've known of sorcerers who had familiars that were smarter than them, and had egos to go along with it. I've often considered playing a character who is secretly a buffed out PAO familiar, and my "familiar" is a PAO caster. Every time I die I'd get re-summoned again as a brand new imposter with 2 new randomly rolled personality quirks and no more knowledge about the campaign than what I can cram into a paragraph sized debriefing. Just to give the party a fair chance of figuring it out. In the mean time I'd claim I had some resurrection trick and no you may not see how. I'd cast via silent and still spell and the real caster, or rely on morning buffs from him, or some such.

[Chronos]

So your super-advanced flying stealth dinosaur (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0797.html) can outwit any stupid imps it encounters.

[jiriku]

Familiars can be useful as scouts and spies, and a good DM will limit the accuracy and usefulness of the reports that you get in accordance with the familiar's intelligence. A smarter familiar will pay more attention to the important bits, notice subtle things that were out of place, and comment on unusual behaviors. A dumb familiar will spend 5 minutes telling you about this cool-looking lizard it saw and this neat-smelling piece of garbage that it found.

[Jeraa]

I always thought the concept of familiar intelligence was pretty thought provoking... eventually the familiar will be smarter than the master! It might happen faster for sorcerers, but it'll happen to wizards eventually too. Who's leading who at that point? If you find an NPC sorcerer that's powerful enough, should you be directing your comments to the wee animal?

Sorcerers maybe, but not wizards. Remember wizards are Intelligence based, and will be boosting their intelligence scores. Familiars have an Intelligence of 15 at 20th level, where wizards need a minimum Intelligence of 19 to cast his 9th level spells. Unless the wizards as had his Intelligence drained/damaged (or the familiar is wearing Int-boosting gear), the wizards Intelligence should always be higher than the familiars.

[SinsI]

Sorcerers maybe, but not wizards. Remember wizards are Intelligence based, and will be boosting their intelligence scores. Familiars have an Intelligence of 15 at 20th level, where wizards need a minimum Intelligence of 19 to cast his 9th level spells. Unless the wizards as had his Intelligence drained/damaged (or the familiar is wearing Int-boosting gear), the wizards Intelligence should always be higher than the familiars.
You are just not pushing the rules far enough. My Blade Guardian Familiar (for a 20th level character) has an Intelligence score of 39, pre-buffs... And I wonder "why the hell would I need that much intelligence on him? Wouldn't it be better to just leave him as a Construct?"

[Bronk]

Sorcerers maybe, but not wizards. Remember wizards are Intelligence based, and will be boosting their intelligence scores. Familiars have an Intelligence of 15 at 20th level, where wizards need a minimum Intelligence of 19 to cast his 9th level spells. Unless the wizards as had his Intelligence drained/damaged (or the familiar is wearing Int-boosting gear), the wizards Intelligence should always be higher than the familiars.

Heh, well, I did call sorcerers out as being affected first, but who's stopping at level 20? Eventually it's going to happen, and it will be awesome.

And then that wee critter's master is going to pass away, and it'll be a superintelligent magical beast getting up to it's own antics!

[Jagernaut]

With the item Horseshoes of Flame (+2 Dex, +10 Int, +6 Cha, looks like a nightmare) you can make any mount stupid smart for 21 hours of the day. I always enjoyed role playing a paladin whose special mount was actually the smartest member of the party.

More on subject, with some UMD optimization a familiar could use them to become even smarter!

[Story]

but who's stopping at level 20?

The epic spellcasting rules are so broken that it's generally assumed you're stopping at 20. Then again 9th level spells are pretty broken too and most campaigns rarely reach that level.

[Tiri]

It's not impossible for a sorcerer to have 15 Intelligence.

[Bronk]

The epic spellcasting rules are so broken that it's generally assumed you're stopping at 20. Then again 9th level spells are pretty broken too and most campaigns rarely reach that level.

Heh, well you don't need to use epic spellcasting when you're playing awesome epic level games. They're still awesome! Anyway, we're not making L20 theoretical builds here, just thinking about familiars in a new light.

For example, I wonder if any spellcasters worry about their familiars after they're gone? Maybe make sure they have all the passwords, a few wish scrolls, hands of man gloves, find some way to talk, so that their familiars can become wizards after they pass on? After a certain point they'd be shoo-ins for the class!

[Abd al-Azrad]

I'm not really sure how well this has been covered so far, but there are a lot of really complicated tasks your familiar can perform due to its 6-12 intelligence score and body/stats.

I think my absolute faves involve flying around with either caltrop or tanglefoot bags, readying to dump the contents to break charge lines. It's basically a no-save option to destroy a melee character's momentum, and it tends to work regardless of the character. You can basically give your party a free round of close-range attacks on some pounce-based barbarian, for instance.

[SangoProduction]

I'm not really sure how well this has been covered so far, but there are a lot of really complicated tasks your familiar can perform due to its 6-12 intelligence score and body/stats.

I think my absolute faves involve flying around with either caltrop or tanglefoot bags, readying to dump the contents to break charge lines. It's basically a no-save option to destroy a melee character's momentum, and it tends to work regardless of the character. You can basically give your party a free round of close-range attacks on some pounce-based barbarian, for instance.

Just remember, if you bring something to the table, the DM will as well. So, in effect, you are weakening your own melees by doing this.

[atemu1234]

It's not impossible for a sorcerer to have 15 Intelligence.

But nonoptimal.

[Spore]

But nonoptimal.

Because a sorcerer without Knowledge (Planes) trying to summon any creature or a sorcerer without Spellcraft doesn't look like a total dunce.