PDA

View Full Version : Could I make a decent battle mage? A melee range spellcaster.



Orpec
2015-04-26, 10:55 PM
I liked the idea of a spellcaster who instead of being squishy got up close and personal with their spells. Probably a bit tanky and maybe sort of mobile. A sword would be okay, but the main goal would be to go up to someone and do stuff like shocking grasp them. Basically use spells with melee or short ranges and get up all in peoples faces.

What do you think would be the best way to do that?

SharkForce
2015-04-26, 11:17 PM
(not necessarily in any specific order)

option 1) persuade your DM to allow the variant favoured soul class. it's kinda-sorta semi-official, but in my opinion, more powerful than a normal sorcerer which it is based on.

option 2) make a wizard or sorcerer. splash one or more level(s) of something that has good armour (various flavours of cleric, paladin, fighter). several paladin levels on a sorcerer is a popular combination, 2 fighter levels on a wizard is another (note that action surge can be used to cast a spell).

option 3) straight valour bard. use magic initiate for some damaging cantrips.

option 4) warlock, probably fiend pact. the main "drawback" will be that a lot of warlock's power revolves around eldritch blast, which you probably won't be using.

option 5) straight eldritch knight. eventually, you'll get to do cantrips and also stab people in the face on the same turn.

Bellberith
2015-04-26, 11:23 PM
I liked the idea of a spellcaster who instead of being squishy got up close and personal with their spells. Probably a bit tanky and maybe sort of mobile. A sword would be okay, but the main goal would be to go up to someone and do stuff like shocking grasp them. Basically use spells with melee or short ranges and get up all in peoples faces.

What do you think would be the best way to do that?

I find warlock to be one of the best ways to do this.

With a high dex value and casting spells like darkness when initiating combat, your AC can be roughly 18-20 and almost everything in the game has disadv to hit you, while you have adv to hit them.

Add in the fact that anytime you defeat an enemy with fiend pact you regain temporary hitpoints and if you knew which damage types you were going to most likely run into that day for the resistance, you are pretty tanky while putting out some very good damage.

By the time level 10 or so rolls around if you accurately predicted the fight or knew what you were getting into then you could potentially have ~30EHP of temporary hit points that regenerate every time an enemy is defeated. Add spells into that and you are pretty beastly.

Edit: Blade pact would be good, with Lifedrinker and Thirsting blade. Agonizing Blast and Armor of Shadows are also must-haves. Devil's sight is a no-brainer to see through your own darkness, but you can forgo this if you decide to go the mirror image route (i wouldn't recommend it).

Giant2005
2015-04-26, 11:37 PM
A Death Domain Cleric would be my choice. They get Vampiric Touch which imo is the best touch range spel (Especially in the hands of a level 17+ Death Ceric)l and they have bonus action options that don't use concentration (Spiritual Weapon, commanding animated dead to attack). However they don't have access to a touch range cantrip unless they get it via race or feat (Or your DM lets you refluff Chill Touch into a touch ranged spell and I can't imagine why he wouldn't) but imo they are also better with that cantrip than others by being able to devote their concentration slot on Spitiual Guardians. Spiritual Guardians + Spirit Weapon + Touch Cantrip = pretty solid damage output; and if your DM does allow the refluff of Chill Touch, between Spirit Guardians and being able to get the 2 for 1 combo on Chill Touch, respectable AOE damage too.
It is just a shame that they got the Cleric's Divine Strike feature at level 8 rather than the Potent Spellcaster feature.

TheOOB
2015-04-27, 12:25 AM
Several ways to do this. I'd avoid wizard or sorcerer, they're not that tough and as you get higher level the spells just get better ranged, there's just no real benefit to getting up close and personal.

Valor bard or warlock is likely your best bet. Valor bard can be very tough and tanky and use spells at the same time. Warlock has many abilities that are useful in melee.

Clerics and Druids are also good. Druids have the benefit of being the toughest class in the game(wildshape is kind of silly hp wise) and having a surprising good spell set for offensive play.

burninatortrog
2015-04-27, 12:30 AM
Valor bards, clerics, druids, eldritch knights, and paladins all fit this description. Be advised, however, that shocking grasp isn't really meant to be an offensive spell - it's more of a defensive choice, designed to take away the opponent's reaction so the caster can get out of melee range without suffering an attack of opportunity.

Grek
2015-04-27, 01:32 AM
How about Tempest Cleric? Go human, take Magic Initiate (Shocking Grasp, Witch Bolt, one other cantrip of choice) as your human feat. Bam. Starting at level 3 you can channel divinity to do huge damage on a single zapping spell. And people who attack you get zapped back.

Darth_Versity
2015-04-27, 02:48 AM
A decent choice that is useful early (gets going at lvl 2) is a Mountain Dwarf Wizard who takes Abjuration as his school.

You wear medium armor and wield an axe/hammer and can happily smash face. The Shield spell provides you with a higher AC and so activates your Arcane Ward for a cushion of extra hit points.

The downside is no Racial Intelligence bonus, which means you will probably have a little more difficulty hitting with magic attacks.

Ralanr
2015-04-27, 03:13 AM
A decent choice that is useful early (gets going at lvl 2) is a Mountain Dwarf Wizard who takes Abjuration as his school.

You wear medium armor and wield an axe/hammer and can happily smash face. The Shield spell provides you with a higher AC and so activates your Arcane Ward for a cushion of extra hit points.

The downside is no Racial Intelligence bonus, which means you will probably have a little more difficulty hitting with magic attacks.

You say downside, I say dwarves don't give a damn. Nothing gonna stop them!

Joking aside, more non divine dwarf casters is a plus. I'd love to see on old dwarf wizard with a long white beard and a strict teaching regiment.

I need to write that character.

ghost_warlock
2015-04-27, 04:59 AM
I would start with one level of fighter for heavy armor and shield.

Then go evoker the rest of the way making liberal use of the Elemental Evil player's guide spells. Your cantrips are shocking grasp, thunderclap, and create bonfire.

Get the heaviest armor you can, wade into melee, and basically spam thunderclap. Gets even better with the evoker abilities to ignore allies in your area of effects, half damage on a successful save, and +Int mod to damage.

At higher levels, you can use misty step to teleport around and use spells like flaming sphere, fire shield, and storm sphere to increase your dpr.

Edit: added the name of the storm sphere spell that I couldn't remember before. :smalltongue:

Zariel
2015-04-27, 10:40 AM
I don't know if this is what you want but i played a warlock of blade fiend of course with a splash of a fighter on 1st level. Dragonborn. Great str great cha... Darkness and you goooo... :) Was having a lot of fun playing ^_^

Darth_Versity
2015-04-27, 10:40 AM
If you're multiclassing for proficiency then cleric is a better choice. You can still get heavy Armor and martial weapons with the right domain, but most importantly you don't delay your spells/day progression and add a selection of cleric spells to your prepared spells.

ChubbyRain
2015-04-27, 10:55 AM
A decent choice that is useful early (gets going at lvl 2) is a Mountain Dwarf Wizard who takes Abjuration as his school.

You wear medium armor and wield an axe/hammer and can happily smash face. The Shield spell provides you with a higher AC and so activates your Arcane Ward for a cushion of extra hit points.

The downside is no Racial Intelligence bonus, which means you will probably have a little more difficulty hitting with magic attacks.

The thing about abjuration wizards is that they can completely tear up melee. When built and used correctly they straight up have more effective HP than any other class (yes even the fighter).

With your spells... Well target the low saves. If a creature is super strong and seems to be a beast, splap a Int save or Cha save on it. Caster in the back row? Slap a strength save on it.

It wasn't my character but a guy showed up with a Mountain Dwarf Abjuration Wizard who took Mobile and put haste on himself (later the sorcerer did this).

He was running around knocking the hell out of everything. I think at one point he had longstrider and blur up and the paladin sorcerer* had haste on him... He was the flash, if the flash had an axe that he regularly swung at your face.

Sub optimal? Mostly. Fun? He had a blast.

*the paladin had haste on himself. Con + Cha + Prof...not losing that spell anytime soon.

Easy_Lee
2015-04-27, 11:13 AM
I'm gonna go against the grain a bit and suggest a lightning dragon sorcerer / vengeance paladin mix. Six levels of each gets you everything you need to smite, bonus quicken shocking grasps, throw lightning bolts, and so on, all while being MAD in only DEX and CHA. Draconic armor combined with a shield means 18-20AC fairly early.

It's a bit of a weird build, and comes fully online a bit late, but it could work well. Dragon sorcerers get a bonus HP every level, one frequently overlooked feature, which is the equivalent of raising their hit die by one category.

Rfkannen
2015-04-27, 08:31 PM
I agree on the abjurer wizard dwarf with mobil. Sound like a fun build.
However personally I would probably run a dragon sorcerer. I mean they get shocking grasp and more importantly have the adding charisma to ac thing.

ChubbyRain
2015-04-28, 12:29 AM
I agree on the abjurer wizard dwarf with mobil. Sound like a fun build.
However personally I would probably run a dragon sorcerer. I mean they get shocking grasp and more importantly have the adding charisma to ac thing.

13 + Dex (essentially free mage armor). I'm not aware that dragon sorcerers can add cha to AC.

Also wizards get shocking grasp too...

Oh and you don't have to hit with your attack, you just need to attack a creature and mobile let's you run away Scot free.

MarkTriumphant
2015-04-28, 06:09 AM
However they don't have access to a touch range cantrip unless they get it via race or feat

Since Sacred Flame is based on a saving throw, it will work fine at melee ranges.

Giant2005
2015-04-28, 06:50 AM
Since Sacred Flame is based on a saving throw, it will work fine at melee ranges.

It works fine in melee range but it isn't what the OP is asking for.

Chronos
2015-04-28, 07:35 AM
This might be a good use for the abjurer/warlock who replenishes Arcane Ward via the Mage Armor invocation. You'd also want some source of temporary HP, and the warlock has three good options for that, but with the way that temporary HP replace each other, it's probably redundant to have more than one source for them. I'd go with Armor of Agathys for temp HP needs, because your abjuration ward will absorb damage before your temp HP do, meaning you can get hit to trigger Armor of Agathys's cold damage without wearing away at it. If your ward gets knocked down during combat, then use a Shield spell to prevent getting hit more the next turn and also replenish some points on it. Absorb Elements is another useful spell which will both protect you and give you some counterattack.

From here, it's a question of how much wizard and how much warlock you want. You'll need at least two of each (for wizard school specialization and warlock invocations). You might want one more warlock level to get Blade Pact, but other than that, I'd go mostly wizard, because the ward scales with your wizard level and Int. Pick spells as a warlock that don't depend on your casting stat (like AoA and Blade Ward, which you'll actually have use for), and you can leave Cha at the 13 minimum needed for multiclassing. Oddly, you'll usually want to cast AoA out of a wizard slot, to take advantage of higher spell slots, and you'll usually want to cast Shield out of warlock slots, since it doesn't scale.

MarkTriumphant
2015-04-28, 07:49 AM
It works fine in melee range but it isn't what the OP is asking for.

I'm not sure that I see why. It is a perfectly good attack cantrip, and it works close up. The only difference is that it is based on a saving roll rather than an attack roll.