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Dhavaer
2015-04-27, 01:43 AM
Spellsword

Some sorcerers have a more difficult time with their magic than others. It expresses itself rarely and weakly, and even when they gain control of it they can manage only a few of the simplest spells. Some are satisfied with their minor magic - it was free, after all - but some go searching for a way to unlock it and find the key in blood and steel: the way of the spellsword. Spellswords learn to channel their magic through their blades and bodies, never reaching the highest peaks of sorcery but strengthening their bodies and minds with their magic.



Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Cantrips Known
Spells Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th


1st
+2
Fighting Style, Steel Focus
2
-
-
-
-
-
-


2nd
+2
Arcane Strike
2
2
2
-
-
-
-


3rd
+2
Reaving Strike
2
3
3
-
-
-
-


4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
3
3
3
-
-
-
-


5th
+3
Extra Attack
3
4
4
2
-
-
-


6th
+3
Arcane Resistance
3
4
4
2
-
-
-


7th
+3
War Magic
3
5
4
3
-
-
-


8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
3
5
4
3
-
-
-


9th
+4
-
3
6
4
3
2
-
-


10th
+4
Eldritch Strike
4
6
4
3
2
-
-


11th
+4
Improved Arcane Strike
4
7
4
3
3
-
-


12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
4
7
4
3
3
-
-


13th
+5
-
4
8
4
3
3
1
-


14th
+5
Bursting of Bonds
4
8
4
3
3
1
-


15th
+5
Arcane Charge
4
9
4
3
3
2
-


16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
4
9
4
3
3
2
-


17th
+6
-
4
10
4
3
3
3
1


18th
+6
Improved War Magic
4
10
4
3
3
3
1


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement
4
11
4
3
3
3
2


20th
+6
Forceful Strike
4
11
4
3
3
3
2



Class features
As a spellsword you gain the following class features.

Hit Dice: 1d10 per level
Hit Points at 1st level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at higher levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your constitution modifier for every spellsword level after first

Proficiencies
Armour: Light armour, medium armour, heavy armour, shields
Weapons: Simple Weapons, Martial weapons
Tools: None

Saving Throws: Constitution, Charisma
Skills:Choose two from: Acrobatics, Arcana, Athletics, Deception, Intimidation, Persuasion

Equipment
You start with either 5d4*10gp or the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

A martial weapon and (a) a shield or (b) two simple weapons
(a) Five javelins or (b) two simple weapons
(a) an explorer's pack or (b) a dungeoneer's pack
(a) scale mail or (b) chain mail

Cantrips
At 1st level, you know two cantrips from the spellsword spell list. You learn additional cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the cantrips known column of the Spellsword table.

Fighting Style
You adopt a particular style of fighting as your specialty. You may choose between Defence, Duelling or Great Weapon Fighting. See the Fighter class description for more information.

Steel Bond
You know a ritual that forges a magical bond between you and a weapon. The ritual takes 1 hour and can be done over a short rest. You must be holding the weapon throughout the ritual. Once you have bonded with the weapon, you are constantly aware of its precise location as long as it is on the same plane as you. You can use it as an arcane focus, and it is considered a magical weapon for purposes of resistance or immunity while you are wielding it. You can be bonded to only one weapon at a time, other than your unarmed strike which is always considered bonded.

Spellcasting
Like a sorcerer, you carry a font of magic inside you, but yours is deeper and restrained, coming out as much in your physical actions as your spells. When you reach 2nd level, it has emerged enough for you to cast spells other than cantrips. See chapter 10 of the Players Handbook for the general rules of spellcasting.

Spell Slots. Spell slots are shown on the Spellsword table. You regain all your expended spell slots with a long rest.

Spells Known. At second level you learn two 1st level spells from the Spellsword spell list. As you gain levels you can learn new spells, which may be of any level you have slots for. When you gain a level, you may replace one spell you know with another, which can be from any level you have slots for.

Spellcasting Ability. Charisma is your spellcasting ability.

Arcane Strike
Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee attack with your bonded weapon you can expend one spell slot to deal force damage in addition to the attack's normal damage. The extra damage is 1d8 plus 1d8 per level of the spell slot, to a maximum of 5d8.

Reaving Strike
Starting at 3rd level, when an attack which you have used your Arcane Strike ability on kills a creature other than an undead or construct, you gain 1d4 hit points plus 1 additional hit points per level of the spell and become one day younger.

Extra Attack
At 5th level you can attack twice instead of once when using the Attack action on your turn.

Arcane Resistance
At 6th level you gain a bonus to your saves equal to your Charisma modifier as long as you are conscious.

War Magic
As the Fighter ability

Eldritch Strike
At 10th level, you gain Eldritch Strike as the Fighter ability

Improved Arcane Strike
At 11th level, all your melee attacks with your bonded weapon deal an extra 1d8 force damage. This counts as using Arcane Strike for the purposes of your Reaving Strike ability, and stacks with the extra damage from Arcane Strike.

Bursting of Bonds
At 14th level you can use your action to get an additional saving throw against an ongoing effect that is affecting you. You may still use this ability if the condition prevents you from taking actions, but you may only use it on your turn, and doing so consumes your action, bonus action, reaction and movement. You can use this ability a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). Uses refesh on a long rest.

Arcane Charge
At 15th level you can use your Arcane Strike ability before making your attack. If you do so, you may teleport 10 feet per level of the solt your expended before attacking.

Improved War Magic
As the Fighter ability

Forceful Strike
At 20th level, if you use your Arcane Strike ability before making your attack, you add your Charisma modifier to the attack roll.


Cantrips
Acid Splash
Blade Ward
Chill Touch
Create Bonfire
Control Flames
Dancing Lights
Fire Bolt
Frostbite
Gust
Light
Mage Hand
Mending
Mold earth
Poison Spray
Prestidigitation
Ray of Frost
Shape Water
Shocking Grasp
Thunderclap
True Strike

1st Level
Burning Hands
Catapult
Chromatic Orb
Detect Magic
Earth Tremor
Expeditious Retreat
False Life
Feather Fall
Heroism
Ice Knife
Jump
Magic Missile
Searing Smite
Shield
Thunderous Smite
Thunderwave
Witch Bolt
Wrathful Smite

2nd Level
Aganazzer's Scorcher
Alter Self
Blindness/Deafness
Blur
Darkvision
Dust Devil
Enhance Ability
Enlarge/Reduce
Earthbind
Gust of Wind
Hold Person
Invisibility
Levitate
Magic Weapon
Maximilian's Earthern Grasp
Mirror Image
Misty Step
Pyrotechnics
Snilloc's Snowball Swarm
Scorching Ray
See Invisibility
Shatter
Spider Climb
Warding Wind
Web

3rd Level
Blink
Counterspell
Daylight
Dispel Magic
Elemental Weapon
Erupting Earth
Fear
Fireball
Flame Arrows
Fly
Gaseous Form
Haste
Lightning Bolt
Melf's Minute Meteors
Protection from Energy
Sleet Storm
Slow
Wall of Water
Water Breathing
Water Walk

4th Level
Banishment
Blight
Dimension Door
Greater Invisibility
Staggering Smite
Stoneskin
Storm Sphere
Vitrolic Sphere
Wall of Fire
Watery Sphere

5th Level
Banishing Smite
Cloudkill
Cone of Cold
Control Winds
Destructive Wave
Hold Monster
Immolation
Telekinesis
Wall of Stone

Dhavaer
2015-04-27, 01:50 AM
Short version: 'tis an arcane Paladin, with some Eldritch Knight and the 3.5 Hexblade mixed in to fill the gaps. The spell list is mostly Sorcerer with some Paladin, and includes Elemental Evil spells. The three abilities that are actually original are Reaving Strike, Bursting of Bonds and Forceful Strike. The one thing is doesn't have are any subclasses; I just couldn't think of any, and I'm not sure which of the current abilities I'd make optional if an idea did occurs to me. Any suggestions?

Giant2005
2015-04-27, 10:01 AM
This pretty much renders the Paladin completely obsolete. It has all of his best spells and abilities and adds a few more extremely potent abilities while also pilfering the best bits from the Eldritch Knight. There is no mechanical reason to play a Paladin with this class around.

MrStabby
2015-04-27, 11:26 AM
This pretty much renders the Paladin completely obsolete. It has all of his best spells and abilities and adds a few more extremely potent abilities while also pilfering the best bits from the Eldritch Knight. There is no mechanical reason to play a Paladin with this class around.

And even things like arcane smite have a better damage type than the Paladin's smite abilities.

I think this needs toning down quite a bit. "Like the Paladin but better" is not a good class description. Maybe take off some of the combat abilities and replace them with out of combat abilities like arcane versions of the paladins detect outsiders/undead ability?

The whole spell focus being a weapon is quite nice but I don't get why the paladin has to spend a feat to do this in combat but this guy doesn't. I would say keep the ability but maybe make the spell selection less good?

Ziegander
2015-04-27, 11:50 AM
It also doesn't have archetypes, or class paths, a big no, no in 5e class design.

MrStabby
2015-04-27, 12:28 PM
Whilst this is all true it does seem a little harsh. I have seen worse.

Ziegander
2015-04-27, 12:36 PM
Whilst this is all true it does seem a little harsh. I have seen worse.

Personally, I don't mean to rag on the effort, overall it's a fine work, it just could use a little tuning is all. I really enjoy the fluff aspect of it and the mechanics work.

Dhavaer
2015-04-27, 03:36 PM
Is the paladin really that bad? I thought the bonus damage against fiends and undead (especially undead, given how good radiant damage is against them), the better spellcasting method (paladins get 20 spells prepared at 10 Cha to the spellsword's 15 spells/cantrips known) and the immunities/resistances made the paladin stand up reasonably well.

Is there any particular spells from the spell list you think should be taken off or should it just be generally cut down? I put in everything from the sorcerer that wasn't a utility illusion or a charm/dominate spells (they are meant to be sorcerers, after all) but they really don't need all those spells. I'll strike some of them, tell me if it looks better without them.

JNAProductions
2015-04-27, 03:55 PM
The Paladin is great-which is why Paladin+ is too powerful.

Dhavaer
2015-04-27, 05:09 PM
Comparing the classes:

Divine Sense vs Steel Focus: these aren't similar abilities, but neither class has an equivalent to the other's. Divine Sense looks pretty bad to me; limited uses on an ability that by definition you won't know will do anything. Steel Focus is always on. Advantage: Spellsword.

Fighting Style: the same ability on each class. Paladin's get an extra option, but not really a great one. Advantage: Paladin, but only slightly.

Lay on Hands vs Reaving Strike: two healing abilities. Reaving Strike doesn't require a separate action, which is nice, but does require a circumstance that, while not rare, isn't something you can easily set up. Lay on Hands you can do whenever, can be used on other people, can be used to cure other effects and heals a lot more even if Reaving Strike goes off on every use of Arcane Strike, but does take an action. You also get it two levels earlier. Advantage: Paladin.

Spellcasting: Spellsword has a more expansive spell list, Paladin is more flexible in their use of their list. Spellswords get cantrips, though, and prestidigitation is obviously the best ability in the game. Advantage: Spellsword.

Divine Smite vs Arcane Strike: Arcane Strike has a better damage type, albeit not by much (there is one force immune creature in the MM, vs 4 radiant resistant and 1 radiant weak creature). Divine Smite does bonus damage against two fairly common enemy types. I'd be inclined to give this to Divine Smite, but everyone seems to disagree with me, so I'll call it even. Tie.

Divine Health: the Spellsword has no equivalent to this, but diseases don't come up very often. Advantage: Paladin, but only slightly.

Channel Divinity: the Spellsword has no equivalent to this either and it actually looks pretty good, though uses are limited. Advantage: Paladin.

ASIs and Extra Attack are the same on both classes.

Aura of Protection vs Arcane Resistance: these are the same ability, but the Paladin applies their to nearby allies and it doesn't hurt them if their Charisma is negative, although the odds of that are pretty low with no ability damage. Advantage: Paladin.

War Magic vs Oath ability: War Magic is cool. The Oath of Vengeance ability looks kind of shoddy, but Devotion's is good and Ancients' is great. Advantage: Paladin, unless Vengeance.

Eldritch Strike vs Aura of Courage: I love immunities. Love love love. Disadvantage on demand is awesome too, though, and works on everything, while not everything can cause fear. Tie.

Improved DS vs Improved AS: AS still has a marginally better damage type, DS doesn't get bonus damage on this ability. Advantage: Spellsword, but only slightly.

Bursting of Bonds vs Cleansing Touch: Bursting of Bonds works on everything, Cleansing Touch only does spells, but automatically works and can affect other people. BoB does combo nicely with Arcane Resistance, though. Advantage: Spellsword.

Arcane Charge vs Oath ability: Oath of Vengeance draws the short straw again. Arcane Charge is awesome, everyone loves to teleport. Perma-protection of evil is good but the Paladin already has most of the immunities anyway. Disadvantage is always nice, though, and affects a lot of creature type. Oath of Ancients' ability to not die once per day is very nice, but as I said, only once per day. Advantage: Spellsword, but only slightly unless Vengeance.

Improved War Magic vs Improved Auras: Improved War Magic is great. Auras are nice, but not that nice. Advantage: Spellsword.

Capstones: I don't know. The Paladin caps are powerful, but once per day. The Spellsword cap you can use any time you want to teleport or feel the need for this specific attack to hit outweighs the possibility of blowing a spell slot. They aren't really comparable, so I'm calling it even. Tie.

Counting advantages as one and slight advantages at 0.5 I get:
Spellsword: 5
Paladin: 5 (unless Vengeance)

Have I missed something? They seem pretty evenly matched to me. Paladin has a bunch of perma-buffs and immunities, Spellsword casts better and can teleport.

Mr.Moron
2015-04-27, 05:35 PM
This really needs Archetypes/Paths, if only as a concept outline. As is it just doesn't fit into the 5e design paradigm at all.

Dhavaer
2015-04-27, 05:47 PM
This really needs Archetypes/Paths, if only as a concept outline. As is it just doesn't fit into the 5e design paradigm at all.

I agree, but I have no idea what they would be or do. To be honest I was almost considering going zero options and saying 'at 1st level you know prestidigitation and fire bolt. At 4th level you get +2 Cha' etc. but I thought that would be silly.

Wartex1
2015-04-27, 05:55 PM
Have one aspect focus on spellcasting, another focus on swordplay, and another focus on defense.

Mr.Moron
2015-04-27, 05:57 PM
I agree, but I have no idea what they would be or do. To be honest I was almost considering going zero options and saying 'at 1st level you know prestidigitation and fire bolt. At 4th level you get +2 Cha' etc. but I thought that would be silly.

I'm working on a vaguely similar class (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?411727-New-Class-Mystic-(Fighting-Arcane-Hybrid)) (in that they're fighitng/arcane hybrids. I feel like our inspiration/flavor and approach pretty different) at the moment. You could feel free to check it out to see if anything provides inspiration from a structural standpoint.

I think archetypes should be something of Step #1 or Step#2 when approaching a 5e class. You have to ask yourself:

OK, what would be the biggest thing to set two Spellswords apart? Then package that off and make variations on it. If the answer to that is something that's already in the core of the class you might consider moving it to the archetypes and then re-filling to core abilities.

Dhavaer
2015-04-27, 06:40 PM
Have one aspect focus on spellcasting, another focus on swordplay, and another focus on defense.

Okay, initial thoughts:

Arcanamach: Gets War Magic, Eldritch Strike and Improved War Magic as is default now.
Battle Sorcerer: Gets 1/2 level sorcery points and a metamagic option at level 7. Additional metamagic at 10 and 18.
Abjurant Champion: Gets resistance to spell damage at level 7. Not sure about 10 and 18.

Not sure if Battle Sorcerer is too powerful or not. 10 sorcery points doesn't sound like too much.

PotatoGolem
2015-04-28, 11:40 AM
I'm just going to offer a contrary opinion as someone who's playing a Paladin now: I wouldn't switch to this if it was offered. I also have a paladin in the campaign I DM, and I doubt he'd switch either. Not because the idea isn't cool; it is, and I'd play one in the future. I just don't see how this is "better" or makes the paladin obsolete. Lay on Hands is AMAZING. I can revive downed allies all day, I never overheal, and I have potentially the best 1-action heal at low-mid levels. Auras are incredible; in both groups, everyone plans their movement around the paladin, because he makes them super survivable. I play Ancients, and spellcasters are a trivial nuisance; my player plays Vengeance and demolishes single big things.

Tl;dr: Paladin is great, and this doesn't get some of its greatest things. I agree with Dhavaer that they're about even.

Dhavaer
2015-04-29, 07:44 PM
I just noticed that I didn't allow Arcane Strikes with unarmed strikes, and it seems a little odd that you'd be closer magically to your sword than your fist. Do you think it would be overpowered to have unarmed strikes always count as bonded? If so I'll put the exception in Arcane Strike.

ImSAMazing
2015-07-15, 06:57 AM
I just noticed that I didn't allow Arcane Strikes with unarmed strikes, and it seems a little odd that you'd be closer magically to your sword than your fist. Do you think it would be overpowered to have unarmed strikes always count as bonded? If so I'll put the exception in Arcane Strike.

Go make those Archetypes! I would love to play a Spellsword in a game, but my DM wants an Archetype...

Dhavaer
2015-08-22, 08:43 PM
Go make those Archetypes! I would love to play a Spellsword in a game, but my DM wants an Archetype...

Arcanamach and Battle Sorcerer are both playable right now. I have absolutely no idea what to give Abjurant Champion beyond resistance to spell damage, though.

Sorry I didn't reply earlier; I haven't been checking this thread. Feel free to PM me.

BRKNdevil
2015-08-24, 12:46 PM
Also, you need to drop the Cantrips. Half casters don't get cantrips without a feat. ask wotc why

bloodshed343
2015-08-25, 12:23 PM
I agree, but I have no idea what they would be or do. To be honest I was almost considering going zero options and saying 'at 1st level you know prestidigitation and fire bolt. At 4th level you get +2 Cha' etc. but I thought that would be silly.

I start with flavor, then work towards mechanics when designing subclasses.

For example, my Arcane/Primal warrior draws powers from intense study as well as spiritual forces. It's like a {scrubbed} paladin. I based its subclasses on different seasons, then gave each season an elemental affiliation, then asked myself "How would someone want to play a class associated with this spirit."

Anyway, here's my brew. Feel free to steal inspiration from it:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z9UIfXnAJlYu-0qPvFhYKjzJKRY2LHaQ3H8G4QFTrPo/edit?usp=sharing