Skeleton Warrior Question I've Always Wondered About

[Scorponok]

Ahh, the good old skeleton warrior, a staple of virtually every RPG in existence.

As DM, you generally throw these at low level PCs and laugh because they are all either spearmen or archers and no one thought to bring a club. They are generally easy XP.

But occasionally, due to unforeseen circumstances, or lucky rolls, they sometimes manage to kill a character. But I've always wondered what happens next.

The corpse lies there, in a cavern full of animated skeletons, and eventually decomposes into a skeleton themselves. Then by some vile magic, eventually starts walking again? Does it remember which skeleton killed him off? Does it then want revenge against its killer? Do the two skeletons end up becoming friends even though one killed the other? And do they share weapons and armor? Say, one skeleton found two short swords. Does one skeleton give the skeleton without? What about a husband/wife merchant team who gets attacked by skeletons and both die? Do they recognize each other as husband and wife?

I must admit that due to these unanswered questions, I've always been hesitant of throwing too many skeleton warriors at my PC. Instead, I use Orcs or Kobalds.

[atemu1234]

They're mindless. They have no memories, simply commands they follow.

[Mr Adventurer]

Don't be silly, skeletons don't have any intelligence.

[supermonkeyjoe]

Of course it wants revenge on its killer, how else do you think skeleton wars start? and you can't have skeleton warriors unless there's a skeleton war. :smallwink:

[KillianHawkeye]

Of course it wants revenge on its killer, how else do you think skeleton wars start? and you can't have skeleton warriors unless there's a skeleton war. :smallwink:

Personally, I always figured that skeleton wars were caused by factors such as skeletal trade disputes and conflicting economic desires between the various skeleton nations. :smallwink::smallamused:

[Thurbane]

They're mindless. They have no memories, simply commands they follow.

Don't be silly, skeletons don't have any intelligence.

From the title I assumed he meant Skeleton Warrior as in the acquired template (with the golden circlet), but that may be the 1E gamer in me. :smalltongue:

[Void Bovine]

Yeah the whole mindless thing is what I never get if that's then case why is it fighting to start I always figure undead got to have some imprinted tendencies. Makes me wonder if a skelton or zombie might ever help a party hmm?

[Eldonauran]

Yeah the whole mindless thing is what I never get if that's then case why is it fighting to start I always figure undead got to have some imprinted tendencies. Makes me wonder if a skelton or zombie might ever help a party hmm?

Its the whole things about negative energy and undead being inherently evil.

[Psyren]

Libris Mortis got ya covered:


Atrocity Calls to Unlife: Evil acts can resonate in multiple dimensions, opening cracks in reality and letting the blight creep in. A sufficiently heinous act may attract the attention of malicious spirits, bodiless and seeking to house themselves in flesh, especially recently vacated vessels. Such spirits are often little more than nodes of unquenchable hunger, wishing only to feed. These comprise many of the mindless undead.

TL;DR: "Braaaaaaaains!"

[illyahr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYinhAk96vU

Was this not what we were talking about?

[KillianHawkeye]

Was this not what we were talking about?

That was easily the best thing I've seen all month! Also, I'm pretty sure that was the voice of the Elder God in the Legacy of Kain video games!

[YossarianLives]

But mindless undead are boring! What if all undead, even if they are toiling under the yoke of a necromancer have their own personality, hopes and dreams? Think of all the possibilities. Skeletal labour unions, zombies discussing the best way to cook brains, wights complaining about how nobody wants to hug them.

[jiriku]

Of course it wants revenge on its killer, how else do you think skeleton wars start? and you can't have skeleton warriors unless there's a skeleton war. :smallwink:

Don't be foolish. Skeletons don't start wars; they haven't got the guts for it.

[Psyren]

But mindless undead are boring! What if all undead, even if they are toiling under the yoke of a necromancer have their own personality, hopes and dreams? Think of all the possibilities. Skeletal labour unions, zombies discussing the best way to cook brains, wights complaining about how nobody wants to hug them.

Nitpick: Wights aren't mindless

[JDL]

Skeleton wars begin when someone says...

(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

..."I've got a bone to pick with you."

[Scorponok]

If they are mindless, then they'd have to be given very specific commands to make them at all effective as guards or attackers. A necromancer that tells them to "guard this area" may have all the skeletons pile up in the exact same area. A skeleton would have to be told to pick up a sword and swing it at an enemy. It would have to be told other skeletons in the area are not their enemies.

The skeleton warriors cartoon looks both amazing and confusing at the same time. The animation looks like it's from the 80's but then they obviously use some 3D graphics in there. Weirdest thing I've seen on the internet today.

[danzibr]

Skeleton wars begin when someone says...

(•_•)
( •_•)>⌐■-■
(⌐■_■)

..."I've got a bone to pick with you."
It took me about 30 seconds to figure out what that image was, but when I figured it out... nice.

This thread makes me want to play a skeleton. How, I wonder? Without it being mindless (no Necropolitan either). Essentially just strip way the mental stat adjustment and call it LA +1?

[atemu1234]

It took me about 30 seconds to figure out what that image was, but when I figured it out... nice.

This thread makes me want to play a skeleton. How, I wonder? Without it being mindless (no Necropolitan either). Essentially just strip way the mental stat adjustment and call it LA +1?

Skeletal template, Book of Vile Darkness. LA +1 or +2, if your DM is reasonable. LA +0 if you really, really stretch it. LA: +banana souffle otherwise, since it's 3e.

[danzibr]

Skeletal template, Book of Vile Darkness. LA +1 or +2, if your DM is reasonable. LA +0 if you really, really stretch it. LA: +banana souffle otherwise, since it's 3e.
PERFECT!

Thanks. The only thing which needs an update (except the LA, of course) would be the half damage thing. Most likely DR 5/Bludgeoning.

[Urpriest]

If they are mindless, then they'd have to be given very specific commands to make them at all effective as guards or attackers. A necromancer that tells them to "guard this area" may have all the skeletons pile up in the exact same area. A skeleton would have to be told to pick up a sword and swing it at an enemy. It would have to be told other skeletons in the area are not their enemies.

The skeleton warriors cartoon looks both amazing and confusing at the same time. The animation looks like it's from the 80's but then they obviously use some 3D graphics in there. Weirdest thing I've seen on the internet today.

That's not how mindlessness works in D&D. Mindless creatures aren't programmable robots in a modern sense, they're as competent as, say insects (also mindless in D&D). Basically, anything that ants can do, a necromancer can command skeletons to do.

[atemu1234]

That's not how mindlessness works in D&D. Mindless creatures aren't programmable robots in a modern sense, they're as competent as, say insects (also mindless in D&D). Basically, anything that ants can do, a necromancer can command skeletons to do.

...Carry 50x their own body weight?

[Psyren]

That's not how mindlessness works in D&D. Mindless creatures aren't programmable robots in a modern sense, they're as competent as, say insects (also mindless in D&D). Basically, anything that ants can do, a necromancer can command skeletons to do.

Well, yes and no; I think there's a limit here. Even for mindless creatures, some of the skills/abilities they developed over time are pretty unique to their physical structure and way of life. For instance, I wouldn't expect to be able to hand a bunch of silk to a skeleton and tell it to weave a web.

[danzibr]

...Carry 50x their own body weight?
Well... he/she could command the skelly to do it, but that doesn't mean the skelly will succeed.

[Urpriest]

Well, yes and no; I think there's a limit here. Even for mindless creatures, some of the skills/abilities they developed over time are pretty unique to their physical structure and way of life. For instance, I wouldn't expect to be able to hand a bunch of silk to a skeleton and tell it to weave a web.

Oh sure, and I wouldn't expect to be able to hand a bow to an ant and tell it to shoot someone. Different instincts, but both behaving on an instinctive level.

[ShurikVch]

Note: there are two variants of Skeleton Warrior template - in Midnight's Terror, and Tome of Horrors. None of them are mindless - actually, they have no Int penalty at all

[Segev]

I suspect "common sense" - such as it is - is a trait of Wisdom. This is why commands given to mindless creatures are still interpreted with, well, common sense. They won't be deeply thought-out, and if they require more than obvious interpretation, they'll fail. So nothing particularly complex. If you can give it as a simple, straight-forward instruction without saying "you fill in the details" in any way, shape, manner, or form, they can pull it off.

"Guard this room and kill everyone save those I designate who enter" is simple enough.

"Shoot anybody who enters this room" while handing the skeleton a bow and arrows will work, too. He probably won't know what to do if he runs out of arrows, though.

"Assemble this desk by following the pictographic instructions that came with its pieces" requires way too much interpretation of ancillary directions, however. Abstract identification of pictographic symbols is only the start of the problems.

[Ruethgar]

The Bone Creature template(BoVD) would have skeletons with memories, desire for revenge etc. but not the normal skeletal template as I recall.

[ZamielVanWeber]

But mindless undead are boring! What if all undead, even if they are toiling under the yoke of a necromancer have their own personality, hopes and dreams? Think of all the possibilities. Skeletal labour unions, zombies discussing the best way to cook brains, wights complaining about how nobody wants to hug them.

Advanced Bestiary has you covered with the dread skeleton template. It is like being a skeleton with a few extra powers and the ability to keep your mind.

[Thurbane]

Note: there are two variants of Skeleton Warrior template - in Midnight's Terror, and Tome of Horrors. None of them are mindless - actually, they have no Int penalty at all

I'm familiar with ToH, where can I find Midnight's Terror?

[jiriku]

"Assemble this desk by following the pictographic instructions that came with its pieces" requires way too much interpretation of ancillary directions, however. Abstract identification of pictographic symbols is only the start of the problems.

Ah, Ikea. The bane of necromancers everywhere.

[ShurikVch]

I'm familiar with ToH, where can I find Midnight's Terror?It's Kingdoms of Kalamar Adventure

Also, there is Skeletal Warrior template in Manual of Monsters (Warcraft the RPG)

[danzibr]

Note: there are two variants of Skeleton Warrior template - in Midnight's Terror, and Tome of Horrors. None of them are mindless - actually, they have no Int penalty at all
Better look into these.

The Bone Creature template(BoVD) would have skeletons with memories, desire for revenge etc. but not the normal skeletal template as I recall.
Yeah, I think that's exactly what atemu was talking about (at least, that's what I found and celebrated over).