Belkar's intelligence?

[Professor Tanhauser]

Does anyone have any ideas about belkar's intelligence? I mean, people like V claim his intelligence would compare unfavorably to the average table, but I think he's actually fairly clever, cunning and competent.

Even with that stupid MoJ on his he took care of yikyik, right? That was using the little grey cells.

So what do most people think belkar;' intelligence stat is?

[jindra34]

'bout 12 maybe a bit lower maybe a bit higher...not a genuis by any means but cunning...

[Ettlesby]

Well, since I'm not familiar with the game, I can't give a number, but I DO think he's more intelligent than people give him credit for...

...But not by much.

[Wiione]

Around 12 or 13.

[Imrahil]

I don't know about Belkar having a high intelligence; rather, I always thought of him as possessing a 'killer's instinct'.

[Shott]

I don't know about Belkar having a high intelligence; rather, I always thought of him as possessing a 'killer's instinct'.

I agree with that. I'd say his intelligence is at least 12, but I'd agree that a lot of it is instinct.

[jindra34]

I agree with that. I'd say his intelligence is at least 12, but I'd agree that a lot of it is instinct.

Wow you've agreed with me twice in one day thats just WOw...
are you agreeing out of any peculiar trait or something?

[Jaice]

Belkar has a low wisdom wich is refrenced in a strip. the one that tells ya why he dont cast ranger spells.. not a low int, thus the cunning he shows us

[MReav]

V's accusations are somewhat trumped up. Belkar has decent intelligence (not impressive compared to someone who rewrites the fabric of reality through arcane formulae, but better than your average schmuck). Belkar does have poor Wisdom* though, which explains his impulsiveness and lack of effective long term planning.

*(I rate him as 9, since my understanding of the rules has the scroll set the DC)

[Shott]

Wow you've agreed with me twice in one day thats just WOw...
are you agreeing out of any peculiar trait or something?

Heh. We just must be on a roll today.

[Plato]

I pretty sure his int is 12, he seems to much of a power gamer to have a 13 int and I think he Rps at about the correct level for +1.

[Da Beast]

I think he's actually pretty intelligent, maybe even having a score of 14 or so. He's shown himself to be a competent strategist and clever warrior several times. It's his wisdom score that could be compared unfavorable to that of a table.

[ikanreed]

Sheesh people... 12? That's smarter than a normal person.

Animals can exhibit predatory cunning, and they have int scores of 3. He's been outsmarted by a paladin's warhorse, and I'd wager that's int 7-9. The only mental stat that belkar has in reasonable supply is charisma. Though if one treats statements by Vaarsuvius as being canonically correct, Belkar lacks a "decent" score in that attribute as well.

I personally have a tendency to view all the characters as having a normal distribution of scores centered around "above average" levels(12). Belkar definitely is the kind of build that dumps scores into Dex, Str, and con.

[GSFB]

The correct answer is...

A taco!

[Kodra]

I pretty sure his int is 12, he seems to much of a power gamer to have a 13 int and I think he Rps at about the correct level for +1.

You just claimed that a Halfling ... Dual Wield Ranger ... Multiclassed into Barbarian ... with a int of anything but 8 and a wisdom too low to cast divine spells is a power gamer? I sir, am forced to laugh at that suggestion. Belkar to me is the definition of a Roleplayer's Character. He's sufficiently worthless, but the DM likes it so much he puts him in cool scenarios.

Pun Pun he is not.

[Jawajoey]

As someone I can't remember once said "He may be stupid but he ain't dumb." :smallwink:

He took out Yikyik without attacking.
He speaks competently (he's no thog).
He ridicules and looks down on the pitiful intelligence of the Barbarians.
He is smart enough to make some good clever jokes.
He is smart enough to come up with the idea that maybe the MoJ was just a clever plan to trick him.

He's also been shown numerous times to be incapable of following a simple train of logical thought, and he's not to bright in general, but he certainly is no moron.

So, his intelligence score... 12 maybe? No higher than 13, no lower than 10.

[WarDragon]

You just claimed that a Halfling ... Dual Wield Ranger ... Multiclassed into Barbarian ... with a int of anything but 8 and a wisdom too low to cast divine spells is a power gamer? I sir, am forced to laugh at that suggestion. Belkar to me is the definition of a Roleplayer's Character. He's sufficiently worthless, but the DM likes it so much he puts him in cool scenarios.

Pun Pun he is not.
I always thought Belkar's player was trying to min-max and doing it badly.

[moscatabaco]

When Vaarsuvius casted Owl's wisdom on him he was able to use a scroll to cast a cure serious wounds spell... which is a third level spell for rangers I believe. Which pretty much means his wisdom is at least 9 (since the spell would raise it to 13, the minimum to cast it). It has been implied that he has a wisdom penalty, so his wis drops to 9.

Int... I don't know. I'd say average (11?) He's cunning sometimes, but has trouble keeping up with what's going on. (though this might account for low wisdom)

BTW, whcih ones do you think are his favored enemies? I'd say probably goblinoids, reptilian humanoids (kobolds), humans and halflings just for starters. He doesn't seem to have a particular hatred in general for dwarves and elves (but he does hates Vaarsuvius in particular)

[GSFB]

he is smart enough to plan some pretty nasty practical jokes, like the whole Roy-in-womans-body escapade. his inability to notice the obvious sometimes isn't lack of intelligence, but lack of ranks in useful skills combined with a wisdom penalty.

defintely a taco.

[MReav]

When Vaarsuvius casted Owl's wisdom on him he was able to use a scroll to cast a cure serious wounds spell... which is a third level spell for rangers I believe. Which pretty much means his wisdom is at least 9 (since the spell would raise it to 13, the minimum to cast it). It has been implied that he has a wisdom penalty, so his wis drops to 9.

Naw, it's a third level cleric scroll, but a fourth level ranger spell, which precipitates the debate on whether or not his minimum wisdom is 9 or 10.

[NeonRonin]

My guess is Intelligence somewhere in the region of 12, Wisdom of 9(like others have said before). I can also imagine that the GM and players may be using a homebrewed Flaws and Edges system; my weekend game table has used one in the past to enjoyable effect. If so, tack on a bunch of mental quirks and flaws(perhaps ADHD, homicidal tendencies, pyromania, self-centered) and there you go.

[Professor Tanhauser]

My guess is Intelligence somewhere in the region of 12, Wisdom of 9(like others have said before). I can also imagine that the GM and players may be using a homebrewed Flaws and Edges system; my weekend game table has used one in the past to enjoyable effect. If so, tack on a bunch of mental quirks and flaws(perhaps ADHD, homicidal tendencies, pyromania, self-centered) and there you go.

Uh, you mean D&D doesn't have a dis/advantages system in it?

[MReav]

Yes it does. It's an alternate rule setup found in the Unearthed Arcana.

[Kaerbek]

INT: 10

WIS: 13/14

It's official.

[MReav]

INT: 10

WIS: 13/14

It's official.

Who made it official?

[Kreistor]

Belkar doesn't display a lot of skills, and as a Ranger, he should have them. I'd rather suspect he has an Int penalty, not the +1 bonus a 12 would provide. 8 or 9, I'd say.

[kerberos]

Naw, it's a third level cleric scroll, but a fourth level ranger spell, which precipitates the debate on whether or not his minimum wisdom is 9 or 10.
From what I understand it's fairly well established that for the owl's wisdom trick to work his wisdom must be 10, no higher and no lower. The real problem is that Rick does not follow the rules stringently, if they stand in they way of a joke. Therefore, given that his normal behavious indicates a wisdom well below 10, he might in fact have muhc lower wisdom, and the owls wisdom joke was inserted becasue it was funny, rather than becasue it would technically work given standard rules. That's my interpretation.

[MReav]

From what I understand it's fairly well established that for the owl's wisdom trick to work his wisdom must be 10, no higher and no lower.

I would contest that, because I argue that the scroll sets the DC, not the caster's spell list.

[Kreistor]

I would contest that, because I argue that the scroll sets the DC, not the caster's spell list.

I'm not sure what the argument is here.

DMG pg 238. To use a scroll, you must have the requisite ability score. Scrolls are spell completion items: you complete the spell that is partially cast by someone else to use it, so if you can't cast the spell normally, you can't cast it off the scroll.

[Orzel]

I say Belkar's mentals are

Int 12
Wis 9
Cha 8

Belkar has shown himself to be quite cunning. He is an effective combatant despite his size, a curse (MoJ), and lack of magic ability. He's just too unwise to notice the full power of his classes and the abilities of others.

V's packing 3.0 Owl wisdom and lucked out.

[hanzo66]

He's smart enough to make some good ideas occasionally, but he's by no means a genius. His wisdom seems to be the problem. He is for the most part vicious, impulsive and not a particularly thoughtful person for the most part.

It's when it comes to either fighting, torture and/or crude jokes that he really shows off his Smrts. Everything else... Not really...

[MReav]

I'm not sure what the argument is here.

DMG pg 238. To use a scroll, you must have the requisite ability score. Scrolls are spell completion items: you complete the spell that is partially cast by someone else to use it, so if you can't cast the spell normally, you can't cast it off the scroll.

Yes, but the question is whether or not the scroll sets the requisite ability score. If it's the scroll, then the minimum Belkar needs is 9.

[PirateMonk]

It's when it comes to either fighting, torture and/or crude jokes that he really shows off his Smrts. Everything else... Not really...

He took a feat that gives him a plus six circumstance bonus to Intelligence where sadism is concerned, and has an Int of nine.

[cavalier973]

The casting of Owl's Wisdom also seemed to change Belkar's alignment. . .but we won't get into THAT discussion. . . .

Just wanted to add that Belkar was perceptive enough to explain why Shinjo was refusing to be resurrected. Would that be a function of Wisdom or Intelligence?

[The Viking]

I believe that would be a function of plot.

[cavalier973]

The casting of Owl's Wisdom also seemed to change Belkar's alignment. . .but we won't get into THAT discussion. . . .

Just wanted to add that Belkar was perceptive enough to explain why Shinjo was refusing to be resurrected. Would that be a function of Wisdom or Intelligence?

Sorry, that should have been SHOJO not SHINJO

[Kreistor]

I would contest that, because I argue that the scroll sets the DC, not the caster's spell list.


Yes, but the question is whether or not the scroll sets the requisite ability score. If it's the scroll, then the minimum Belkar needs is 9.

Uhm... you really need to explain this. I think you're just making an assumption or two about what I think you're thinking, because your argument is just going whiff over my head.


Activate the Spell: Activating a scroll requires reading the spell from the scroll. The character must be able to see and read the writing on the scroll. Activating a scroll spell requires no material components or focus. (The creator of the scroll provided these when scribing the scroll.) Note that some spells are effective only when cast on an item or items. In such a case, the scroll user must provide the item when activating the spell. Activating a scroll spell is subject to disruption just as casting a normally prepared spell would be. Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.
To have any chance of activating a scroll spell, the scroll user must meet the following requirements.
• The spell must be of the correct type (arcane or divine). Arcane spellcasters (wizards, sorcerers, and bards) can only use scrolls containing arcane spells, and divine spellcasters (clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers) can only use scrolls containing divine spells. (The type of scroll a character creates is also determined by his or her class.)
• The user must have the spell on his or her class list.
• The user must have the requisite ability score.
If the user meets all the requirements noted above, and her caster level is at least equal to the spell’s caster level, she can automatically activate the spell without a check. If she meets all three requirements but her own caster level is lower than the scroll spell’s caster level, then she has to make a caster level check (DC = scroll’s caster level + 1) to cast the spell successfully. If she fails, she must make a DC 5 Wisdom check to avoid a mishap (see Scroll Mishaps, below). A natural roll of 1 always fails, whatever the modifiers.

Okay, there's the SRD. Now, what argument are you actually trying to make?

[MReav]

Uhm... you really need to explain this. I think you're just making an assumption or two about what I think you're thinking, because your argument is just going whiff over my head.

Okay, there's the SRD. Now, what argument are you actually trying to make?

A Cure Serious Wounds spell for a Cleric is a 3rd level spell. Therefore, casting it from a Cleric Scroll would require a minimum Wisdom of 13. base 9 + enhancement 4 = 13. Therefore, Belkar's minimum Wisdom is 9.

[Kreistor]

A Cure Serious Wounds spell for a Cleric is a 3rd level spell. Therefore, casting it from a Cleric Scroll would require a minimum Wisdom of 13. base 9 + enhancement 4 = 13. Therefore, Belkar's minimum Wisdom is 9.

Ah, I get the confusion. You're thinking that because it was made by a Cleric, that it uses the Cleric spell level if there is one.

The maker of the scroll is not retained. The scroll is Arcane or Divine, not Cleric, Wu Jen, Sorcerer, or Assassin. Just Arcane or Divine.

Since you can't know who made that scroll you looted off the monster, you must look to your own spell list to determine spell level.

[MReav]

Ah, I get the confusion. You're thinking that because it was made by a Cleric, that it uses the Cleric spell level if there is one.

Yes.


The maker of the scroll is not retained. The scroll is Arcane or Divine, not Cleric, Wu Jen, Sorcerer, or Assassin. Just Arcane or Divine.

Maybe, but the scroll still has other details, like caster level.


Since you can't know who made that scroll you looted off the monster, you must look to your own spell list to determine spell level.

But then there lies problems in that thinking. Say you're a Druid trying to cast Heal off a Cleric Scroll. Assuming minimum CL for the Scroll, he would totally flop the casting, since the scroll would be cast as though a Druid were casting it (minimum level 13) but the Scroll's CL would be 11.

Besides, I would assume that's what you figure out when you cast Read Magic, or use Spellcraft.

[MReav]

Ah, I get the confusion. You're thinking that because it was made by a Cleric, that it uses the Cleric spell level if there is one.

Yes.


The maker of the scroll is not retained. The scroll is Arcane or Divine, not Cleric, Wu Jen, Sorcerer, or Assassin. Just Arcane or Divine.

Maybe, but the scroll still has other details, like caster level.


Since you can't know who made that scroll you looted off the monster, you must look to your own spell list to determine spell level.

But then there lies problems in that thinking. Say you're a Druid trying to cast Heal off a Cleric Scroll. Assuming minimum CL for the Scroll, he would totally flop the casting, since the scroll would be cast as though a Druid were casting it (minimum level 13) but the Scroll's CL would be 11.

Besides, I would assume that's what you figure out when you cast Read Magic, or use Spellcraft.

[Tmabbbb]

I think it is about 12. I also think that Roy's is 10-13.

[Professor Tanhauser]

Well, I'll say this for belkar: I think his intelligence is higher than Chang's was. I mean, seriously, would belkar ever be stupid enough to demand a death knight surrender?

Case closed.

[Demented]

:belkar: "Surrender." Hah! How do they come up with this stuff?

Maybe if he wanted a cohort....