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molten_dragon
2015-04-28, 06:23 AM
I'm playing a Barbarian who has the Spell Sunder rage power. The only problem is that we're playing the Wrath of the Righteous adventure path, so most of the enemy casters aren't squishy little wizards with no STR and BAB, they're demons with very respectable CMD numbers, which makes it much harder to dispel their spells by hitting them really hard.

So I'm trying to figure out how to optimize sundering as much as I can. I've already got my strength buffed as much as I can at the level we're at, and I can become large with Titan's rage. I've got improved sunder and will be getting mythic improved sunder the next time I gain a tier. So I'm mostly looking for spells and items at the moment.

Any suggestions?

Geddy2112
2015-04-28, 08:58 AM
Make sure you take greater improved sunder as well. Gauntlets of the skilled maneuver will add an additional +2 to the attempt.

Psyren
2015-04-28, 09:19 AM
Can't help with the mythic stuff, but other than that:

1) Sunder is a combat maneuver performed with your weapon (source) (http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom), so any bonuses to hit on your weapon will apply to the check. These include the weapon's enhancement bonus (including the bonus enhancement if you're using a Furious (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/furious) weapon), weapon focus, bless, haste, prayer, bardsong, all of it (as long as they stack normally.) You also absolutely want Courageous (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/courageous) on your weapon, as this will let you double-dip - it boosts the morale bonus to your stats from raging, and boosts any morale bonus you get directly to your attack rolls as well, both of which will boost your Sunder check even further. And finally, get the PSFG Dueling (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dueling%20%28PSF G%29) on your weapon, which will grant a luck bonus = double the enhancement bonus since Sunder uses your weapon only (see blog link above.) With all those three combined at level 20, you should be looking at a minimum of +29 to your CMB check from your weapon alone (+8 Str mod from Mighty Rage + Courageous, +7 base enhancement from your Furious Weapon, and +14 Luck from dueling.) That's before factoring in your stats or any of your other gear. And since you're optimizing sunder, you may as well pick a weapon that's good at it, like a Lucerne Hammer (the +2 bonus won't apply to spell sunder, but you can always just break someone's armor for funsies.)

2) CMB checks are also attack rolls, so situational bonuses will apply too - especially if you're sundering an effect on a creature, because then they are using their CMD. Things like flanking, higher elevation, and debuffs on the target like being prone or entangled etc.

3) The standard tricks for optimizing a combat maneuver apply here. You'll want to buff your strength as much as possible (physical belt), plus your weapon (including the weapon properties I mentioned above), plus Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver at a minimum. From there, see if you can get an Orange Thorny Ioun Stone. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun-stones/ioun-stone-thorny).

4) Unless you're using the Unchained Barbarian, you'll need to ragecycle to be an effective spell sunderer, so that you can do it multiple times per combat. The easiest way of accomplishing this is Cord of Stubborn Resolve (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/cord-of-stubborn-resolve), which converts any fatigue you receive to nonlethal damage instead, allowing you to drop in and out of rage repeatedly. Simply rage, full attack (replacing your first attack with the spell sunder attempt) and either let the rest of the attacks resolve normally, or sunder other items they have on like their armor, weapon or shield first. Another effective way to ragecycle at low levels is to simply carry lesser restoration potions with you.

5) Another fun item is the Headband of Havoc. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/headband-of-ha) This lets you rage as an immediate action if a spellcaster targets you with something that forces a save. It also makes one of your rage powers count as though your level is 4 higher - which won't do anything for spell sunder, but you should have another one you can apply it to.

molten_dragon
2015-04-28, 05:28 PM
Can't help with the mythic stuff, but other than that:

1) Sunder is a combat maneuver performed with your weapon (source) (http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lcom), so any bonuses to hit on your weapon will apply to the check. These include the weapon's enhancement bonus (including the bonus enhancement if you're using a Furious (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/furious) weapon), weapon focus, bless, haste, prayer, bardsong, all of it (as long as they stack normally.) You also absolutely want Courageous (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/magic-weapons/magic-weapon-special-abilities/courageous) on your weapon, as this will let you double-dip - it boosts the morale bonus to your stats from raging, and boosts any morale bonus you get directly to your attack rolls as well, both of which will boost your Sunder check even further. And finally, get the PSFG Dueling (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MagicWeaponsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Dueling%20%28PSF G%29) on your weapon, which will grant a luck bonus = double the enhancement bonus since Sunder uses your weapon only (see blog link above.) With all those three combined at level 20, you should be looking at a minimum of +29 to your CMB check from your weapon alone (+8 Str mod from Mighty Rage + Courageous, +7 base enhancement from your Furious Weapon, and +14 Luck from dueling.) That's before factoring in your stats or any of your other gear. And since you're optimizing sunder, you may as well pick a weapon that's good at it, like a Lucerne Hammer (the +2 bonus won't apply to spell sunder, but you can always just break someone's armor for funsies.)

2) CMB checks are also attack rolls, so situational bonuses will apply too - especially if you're sundering an effect on a creature, because then they are using their CMD. Things like flanking, higher elevation, and debuffs on the target like being prone or entangled etc.

3) The standard tricks for optimizing a combat maneuver apply here. You'll want to buff your strength as much as possible (physical belt), plus your weapon (including the weapon properties I mentioned above), plus Gauntlets of the Skilled Maneuver at a minimum. From there, see if you can get an Orange Thorny Ioun Stone. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/ioun-stones/ioun-stone-thorny).

4) Unless you're using the Unchained Barbarian, you'll need to ragecycle to be an effective spell sunderer, so that you can do it multiple times per combat. The easiest way of accomplishing this is Cord of Stubborn Resolve (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/c-d/cord-of-stubborn-resolve), which converts any fatigue you receive to nonlethal damage instead, allowing you to drop in and out of rage repeatedly. Simply rage, full attack (replacing your first attack with the spell sunder attempt) and either let the rest of the attacks resolve normally, or sunder other items they have on like their armor, weapon or shield first. Another effective way to ragecycle at low levels is to simply carry lesser restoration potions with you.

5) Another fun item is the Headband of Havoc. (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/h-l/headband-of-ha) This lets you rage as an immediate action if a spellcaster targets you with something that forces a save. It also makes one of your rage powers count as though your level is 4 higher - which won't do anything for spell sunder, but you should have another one you can apply it to.

That's very helpful, thanks. I didn't realize that to-hit bonuses from my weapon helped with sunder attempts. I already have a +2 furious courageous weapon, so that will help quite a bit. And I've got something else that can make it evil outsider bane a couple times a day, so that will help too.

I've got the cord of stubborn resolve too, but I'll definitely pick up the ioun stone and gauntlets, and the dueling property if the DM will allow me.