Help me! I've made a horrible decision!

[Brendanicus]

Ok, so I had to kick one of my players out of my game because he could never show up and was essentially wasting seat at my table that could have been used for somebody who could attend more than half the sessions. That's not my problem.

The player's character did not mesh well with the rest of the group, and will immediately be ganked the moment the session starts after it's confirmed that the player will not show up. Also not my problem.

However, I decided to do something horrible to "spice up" the ensuing PvNow-NPC encounter. I need a way to backpedal on this as much as possible.

So the character who is leaving the group, a Warlock, has been carrying around a gemstone containing the trapped mind of his demon patron. The gem-demon only granted the Warlock powers on the premise that the Warlock would spread evil and chaos in the demon's stead. The Warlock has not been particularly evil, so now the demon seeks to find a new champion in the party. I'm still inviting the Warlock's player to next session so that both he and the Warlock get a proper finale.

So, I approached all of my players individually out-of-game, and told them all that the gem-demon would make their character a half-fiend if they killed one member of the party, but that character can't be the Warlock. This is because the Warlock is still a servant of the demon.

Meanwhile, the Warlock a different offer: Kill the entire party, and become both a half-fiend and gain enough power equivalent to another level in Warlock. To do this, he will gain a level-up and support from summoned Dretch minions.

THE REALLY BAD NEWS: Most of my players have taken the deal. Out of six players, including the Warlock, four have agreed to betray their fellows.

The level five party and their allegiances:

The Warlock- Has signed on and should have signed on.
The Fighter- Signed on, and plans to kill the Artificer.
The Duskblade- Has signed on, and plans to kill the druid.
The Druid- Has signed on, but doesn't realize that half-demonhood would both rob her of her powers, and cause her LG Half-Bronze Dragon animal companion to turn on her. Honestly, I don't care if her character dies.
The Ranger- Has not signed on, but is aware of that the entire party has been given the same offer as her. She expects betrayal.
The Artificer- The only player who would vehemently never betray his fellows. He strongly suspects that something is up.

(Honestly, the best possible solution is for the Warlock and Druid to die, and not have all my players hate each other afterwards).

The only solution to this position I've forced myself into is to have the demon only grant half-fiendhood to only one player, that way traitors would be forced to kill each other or realize that the gain just isn't worth a TPK.

Can anybody else help rectify my horrible campaign-wrecker of an idea?

EDIT: The only way I could stop this without too much Deus Ex is by placing the Demon's gem in danger. If the gem was broken, the demon would be killed and there would be no reason for anybody to fight anymore.

[FocusWolf413]

Yeah. Have the warlock escape, and make him a recurring NPC. Make it so they can't gain their powers without the gem.

[Bronk]

Heh, well, I think the biggest problem (with the specific story that you've got going) is that you specified that the players can't kill the one guy you want to have killed, the warlock.

That doesn't make any sense to me story wise... the demon wants this guy gone because he's not evil enough, so why should it care if the warlock is currently his minion? Demons don't care about that kind of thing, and the whole point is that it wants the gem to change hands.

It also doesn't make much sense metagame-wise... don't you want to kill this NPC off?

Since you talked to everyone one-on-one, it'll be hard to completely backtrack without being completely obvious, so my suggestion is to tell your players that the whole scenario was a dream. They all wake up next game having been tempted by the demon in their sleep, they can all have a cathartic moment where they're all like 'Oh, I had that same dream!', then they can all tell each other that they were in no way tempted to off any of their good buddies, and finally they can realize that the gem, demon and warlock are all terrible threats and have to be eliminated.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It looks to me like there really isn't much you can do short of retconning everything or pulling a deus ex machina before the big betrayals start.

I rather doubt anyone (especially the ranger and artificer) would continue adventuring with any of the others after it comes out that they betrayed the party for power from a demon, no matter how it plays out and who gets the power up in the end.

Even assuming it plays out like you want it to and only the druid and warlock die, there's really no IC reason for at least the ranger and artificer to continue adventuring with two people who accepted a demonic deal and killed two of the party for it.
Best case would be for the ranger and artificer to survive and find new, more trustworthy companions (the rerolls of the betrayers).

OOC, this is the kind of thing that can easily break the group if your players aren't capable of seperating IC actions from the OOC people. There's also a good chance that the druid player is going to be pissed if she catches on to the fact that you want her to die.

It's probably not that helpful but there's really not much you can do at this point besides pulling some kind of "it was all a trick" reveal on your players or otherwise preventing the situation from happening. Once it goes through chances are that feelings will be hurt, the campaign will likely be over or at least heavily derailed and your group may or may not disintegrate depending on how players handle it.

This is really something you should discuss before the campaign starts, because a lot of people aren't comfortable with that style of play.

[Red Fel]

Can anybody else help rectify my horrible campaign-wrecker of an idea?

Ever read a superhero crossover where the protagonists are tricked into fighting one another? One of the quickest ways to end the hero-versus-hero conflict is to reveal the baddy who tricked them into wailing on each other in the first place.

So here's my suggestion. As conflict begins, have the Warlock standing off to the side to wait. He'll let the party prey on itself until they're all weak, then swoop in for the kill. Once the fight starts, have people start making Spot and Listen checks. The easy checks will reveal two things: (1) that the Warlock isn't fighting, and (2) that the demon's laughter can be heard from the gem. If anyone makes a higher DC, they should realize: (1) that the Warlock is talking to the gem, and (2) that the subject of the conversation is as follows:
Warlock: You promised them what?
Demon: Oh, don't worry. They're going to slaughter each other, and you'll clean up what's left.
Warlock: But what if they succeed?
Demon: Do you honestly think I had any intent of giving them anything other than a slow death?
If at least one person notices that, you can expect the fight to change quite suddenly, from "Let's you and me fight," to "Let's you and me kill that lying son of a Dretch."

Or they take advantage of the opportunity to kill each other, knowing that they won't get any reward.

As an additional note, you want to have multiple contingencies in place in case they don't make their Spot or Listen checks. You know, some other way for them to realize they're being betrayed. Once they realize the betrayal, though, their course of action becomes fairly obvious.

[FocusWolf413]

EDIT: The only way I could stop this is by placing the Demon's gem in danger. If the gem was broken, the demon would be killed and there would be no reason for anybody to fight anymore.


Maybe destroying the gem releases the demon instead. That would also be fun.

[Brendanicus]

Red Fel, you are my hero! This could seriously turn things around! It could transform the worst sesion in the history of ever into a pretty good one!

[WeaselGuy]

Red Fel, you are my hero! This could seriously turn things around! It could transform the worst sesion in the history of ever into a pretty good one!

The upside to having the Lord of all that is Fel hanging around. He gives valuable insight on the machinations of Evil's mind.

[Segev]

Just an additional note: Have the LG Bronze Dragon sense something off about their good and dear friend, the Druid. They're close companions, and the LG creature is a paragon of virtue and self-restraint, so should notice if their friend seems to be...off. And anybody with whom an LG creature is close friends is going to be "off" if they're contemplating murder for personal gain.

Also, why would half-fiendhood rob the druid of her powers? Would it make her alignment incompatible, or is this a special rule in your campaign that fiends and half-fiends can't be druids?

Finally, why don't you care if she dies? This has an unpleasant whiff of something personal; I could be misreading you, here, obviously, but I wanted to bring it up just to make sure you examine this carefully.

[atemu1234]

The upside to having the Lord of all that is Fel hanging around. He gives valuable insight on the machinations of Evil's mind.

I think Red Fel might just be the Demon in the gem's dad. And papa's home, and he is pissed.

[Red Fel]

Red Fel, you are my hero! This could seriously turn things around! It could transform the worst sesion in the history of ever into a pretty good one!

Always a service to be of pleasure.

Really, it's one of the few semi-reliable tricks when it comes to motivating players - give them something to hate. You can't control the PCs, and you can't guarantee that they'll pick up on plot hooks or clues, and you can't ensure that they'll affiliate themselves as you anticipate. But the one thing you can do with any reliability is royally tick them off, and nothing does that better than denying them their shinies. Promise them a reward and then deprive them of it, and they will hate forever; take their loot away, and they will chase a single goblin to the ends of the earth to get it back.

If you want them to stop killing each other, make them want to kill something else more. Few things bring people together better than mutual hatred. It's that simple.


The upside to having the Lord of all that is Fel hanging around. He gives valuable insight on the machinations of Evil's mind.

It's true. I have a diploma and everything. I even have my own font color.


I think Red Fel might just be the Demon in the gem's dad. And papa's home, and he is pissed.

Now, now. If I were its father - and I admit nothing, particularly fraternizing with demons - I would kill the incompetent little bugger myself. Never make deals with heroes where they have the ability to refuse, and the power to do so with prejudice.

First rule of making deals. Every offer you make has to benefit you, first and last. Any other benefit should be incidental and fleeting. This demon was sloppy and deserves exactly what he's going to get.

[Bronk]

It looks to me like there really isn't much you can do short of retconning everything or pulling a deus ex machina before the big betrayals start.

I rather doubt anyone (especially the ranger and artificer) would continue adventuring with any of the others after it comes out that they betrayed the party for power from a demon, no matter how it plays out and who gets the power up in the end.

Even assuming it plays out like you want it to and only the druid and warlock die, there's really no IC reason for at least the ranger and artificer to continue adventuring with two people who accepted a demonic deal and killed two of the party for it.
Best case would be for the ranger and artificer to survive and find new, more trustworthy companions (the rerolls of the betrayers).

OOC, this is the kind of thing that can easily break the group if your players aren't capable of seperating IC actions from the OOC people. There's also a good chance that the druid player is going to be pissed if she catches on to the fact that you want her to die.

It's probably not that helpful but there's really not much you can do at this point besides pulling some kind of "it was all a trick" reveal on your players or otherwise preventing the situation from happening. Once it goes through chances are that feelings will be hurt, the campaign will likely be over or at least heavily derailed and your group may or may not disintegrate depending on how players handle it.

This is really something you should discuss before the campaign starts, because a lot of people aren't comfortable with that style of play.

I agree with this!

I still think actual PVP isn't the best way to go, so I hope the players are okay with it. It sounds like you have issues with all of them, though. Are you all still having fun? I think that if you have your players fight each other, even a little bit, everyone is going to end up angry.

Seeing the other options, I still think the 'it was all a dream' version is the way to go. There are two good ways to bring it up. First, the LG Bronze Dragon Animal Companion (by the way, what?) could have been contacted too, and can mention the strange dream it just had. Or, you can have the dream actually be the 'nightmare' spell, which would tip off the spellcasters when they can't get new spells that day.

[Hiro Quester]

Just an additional note: Have the LG Bronze Dragon sense something off about their good and dear friend, the Druid. They're close companions, and the LG creature is a paragon of virtue and self-restraint, so should notice if their friend seems to be...off. And anybody with whom an LG creature is close friends is going to be "off" if they're contemplating murder for personal gain.

Also, why would half-fiendhood rob the druid of her powers? Would it make her alignment incompatible, or is this a special rule in your campaign that fiends and half-fiends can't be druids?

Finally, why don't you care if she dies? This has an unpleasant whiff of something personal; I could be misreading you, here, obviously, but I wanted to bring it up just to make sure you examine this carefully.

I agree with all three of these suggestions. A druid just has to have part of their alignment be neutral. Falling to Neutral Evil won't negate all druidic abilities.

Half fiend has some interesting qualities. But wile they are obviously evil, they are not necessarily undruidic. Many of the SLAs are druid spells (Horrid wilting does extra damage to plant creatures and water elementals is about as undruidic as it gets.)

But you should at least let the Druid make a few knowledge checks. Her character should be smart enough to realize that the LG half-dragon companion (yeah... what?) will turn on her if she takes this deal.

And yes, Kudos to Red Fel for that evil genius way of bringing the players back together by giving them something to hate more than one another, and by threatening to take their shines away.

It might help to add a few opportunities for sense motive checks against the warlock, too. That may also prompt players to look closely at what he is saying to the demon.

[Telonius]

Ever read a superhero crossover where the protagonists are tricked into fighting one another? One of the quickest ways to end the hero-versus-hero conflict is to reveal the baddy who tricked them into wailing on each other in the first place.

So here's my suggestion. As conflict begins, have the Warlock standing off to the side to wait. He'll let the party prey on itself until they're all weak, then swoop in for the kill. Once the fight starts, have people start making Spot and Listen checks. The easy checks will reveal two things: (1) that the Warlock isn't fighting, and (2) that the demon's laughter can be heard from the gem. If anyone makes a higher DC, they should realize: (1) that the Warlock is talking to the gem, and (2) that the subject of the conversation is as follows:
If at least one person notices that, you can expect the fight to change quite suddenly, from "Let's you and me fight," to "Let's you and me kill that lying son of a Dretch."



I swear, sometimes I think you must be my Evil (Good?) Twin. One more post like this and I'm going to change my avatar to Metro Man.

[Shining Wrath]

Trope the second since Red Fel has provided the first - the other way to get the feuding heroes to stop squabbling is to throw something at them that will eat them all, feet first and slowly, if they don't cooperate.

Enter Balor, or something along those lines of sufficient CR that the party has to concentrate on killing it. Toward the end of the battle the Balor realizes he is losing and grabs the Warlock and teleports away. The gem drops to the floor and shatters. The lesser demon is standing there with a "Uh-oh" look on his face.

[Brendanicus]

Enter Balor, or something along those lines of sufficient CR that the party has to concentrate on killing it. Toward the end of the battle the Balor realizes he is losing and grabs the Warlock and teleports away. The gem drops to the floor and shatters. The lesser demon is standing there with a "Uh-oh" look on his face.What I plan on doing is just leveling up the Warlock by one level. Since he would get a new feat and Invocation at level 6, he can pick up Rapid Shot and Eldritch Chain to spam Sickening Blast.

If the players don't end up doing that much PvP (Which I suspect will be the case; the druid's player accidentally let slip my deal to her last night to the rest of my players.) I will have the gem demon spawn an appropriate number of Dretches and Fiendish Stirges (Stirges are weak, but they have become something of a running joke enemy from the first part of the campaign.)

It's not strictly on-topic, but a lot of you have questions about the Druid's animal companion:The current leg of the campaign takes place in a dungeon called the Halls of Flesh. The locale got its name after a cabal of sorcerers tried to develop an epic-level version of Shapechange, only to fail drastically. Now the entire place is covered in flesh and aberrations. Due to a bunch of other backstory tomfoolery, the area is completely warded against summoning any outside creatures.

That being said, there are some organs of existing creatures growing into the walls in some areas. The skin of a Mind Flayer here, and the eyes of a spider there. In one such room was a vein of Bronze Dragon blood.

Anywho, the Druid's Dire Weasel animal companion died one session after getting ripped in half by a chimera. The Druid proceeded to perform the ceremony to summon a new animal companion the next session. Unbeknownst to her, she was performing the ritual in the room with the dragon blood vein in it. I ruled that due to the abjurations and unnatural elements of the Halls, she could only summon creatures native to the halls. Being an aberration-filled horror show, no animals were to be found save for the Dire Weasel's corpse.

Therefore, the summoning ritual used the only natural matter it could find: the Dire Weasel remains mixed with the dragon blood. Thus, a Half-Bronze Dragon Dire Weasel. We call him Bingley.

[Crake]

even if you take red fel's advice, you're still going to have a huge fallout between the players when they realise that they can't actually trust one another not to betray the party at even the slightest chance at power. The fact that the demon was lying actually makes that worse, because it means that the characters didn't even betray each other over something tangible, but merely the possibility of power.

[Brendanicus]

even if you take red fel's advice, you're still going to have a huge fallout between the players when they realise that they can't actually trust one another not to betray the party at even the slightest chance at power. The fact that the demon was lying actually makes that worse, because it means that the characters didn't even betray each other over something tangible, but merely the possibility of power.I think with Red Fel's help, we can rebound from this. Everybody at my table has been close friends for a while OOC, and we regularly hang out in non-DnD settings. If anything, everybody would blame me for introducing this plot thread, and then everybody proceeds with the game as normal. Bonus points if they learn a lesson about accepting too-good-to-be-true deals from demons.

Beside, if the entire party rolls Spot, Listen, AND Sense Motive checks to figure out what the Warlock is plotting, one of them is bound to figure out what is going on before things get too bloody.

Then everybody can band together over killing the Warlock, something the party has wanted to do ever since he was introduced.

[goto124]

Do you roll dice in the open, or behind the screen?

Because if you roll in the open, and any of the checks fail...

Contingencies are good if you can come up with them.

[Bronk]

Whoa! That Animal companion has a great back story!

Also, Halls of Flesh is a super creepy name!

[atemu1234]

What I plan on doing is just leveling up the Warlock by one level. Since he would get a new feat and Invocation at level 6, he can pick up Rapid Shot and Eldritch Chain to spam Sickening Blast.

If the players don't end up doing that much PvP (Which I suspect will be the case; the druid's player accidentally let slip my deal to her last night to the rest of my players.) I will have the gem demon spawn an appropriate number of Dretches and Fiendish Stirges (Stirges are weak, but they have become something of a running joke enemy from the first part of the campaign.)

It's not strictly on-topic, but a lot of you have questions about the Druid's animal companion:The current leg of the campaign takes place in a dungeon called the Halls of Flesh. The locale got its name after a cabal of sorcerers tried to develop an epic-level version of Shapechange, only to fail drastically. Now the entire place is covered in flesh and aberrations. Due to a bunch of other backstory tomfoolery, the area is completely warded against summoning any outside creatures.

That being said, there are some organs of existing creatures growing into the walls in some areas. The skin of a Mind Flayer here, and the eyes of a spider there. In one such room was a vein of Bronze Dragon blood.

Anywho, the Druid's Dire Weasel animal companion died one session after getting ripped in half by a chimera. The Druid proceeded to perform the ceremony to summon a new animal companion the next session. Unbeknownst to her, she was performing the ritual in the room with the dragon blood vein in it. I ruled that due to the abjurations and unnatural elements of the Halls, she could only summon creatures native to the halls. Being an aberration-filled horror show, no animals were to be found save for the Dire Weasel's corpse.

Therefore, the summoning ritual used the only natural matter it could find: the Dire Weasel remains mixed with the dragon blood. Thus, a Half-Bronze Dragon Dire Weasel. We call him Bingley.

All hail Bingley!

[Lerondiel]

I can see why you're stunned Brendanicus. If you're not used to them playing backstabbers that's a very high response.


Becoming a half-fiend comes with a LOT of drawbacks....particularly visible ones that tend to reduce one's options for reliable trading, strong alliances, and not being forced to sleep on the sofa etc.

And for the template you have to dispose of an ally, set fire to the loyalty of your remaining allies, and then hope this demon isn't chaotic evil and likely to take it off you when the mood strikes him........oh wait.

It might be fair to give the druid's player some in game knowledge that their character would be incredibly aware of the unique consequences to him/her.

What alignments are the rest?

EDIT: Oh, and put me on Team Red-Fel for a solution. Nice work!
EDIT EDIT: Just remind me to never ever ever play in his games...my therapist is wealthy enough :P

[Brendanicus]

Whoa! That Animal companion has a great back story!Thank you!

Also, Halls of Flesh is a super creepy name!Isn't it? I didn't come up with the dungeon; I'm running a module. I did come up with the Shapechange backstory though.


EDIT: The best part was describing the transformation.

"You see the corpse of the Dire Weasel sew itself back together in front of you. But suddenly, a stream of metallic blood flows down from the ceiling and into the weasel's body. Its teeth suddenly grow to be sharp as razors, and the its muscle-mass seemingly doubles. It faces the Druid, baring its fangs and coursing with electricity. Its fur is falling off, revealing...

Bronze Dragon scales."