Monk/Warlock concept

[JonIrenicus]

I have posted a version of this build before, but made changes recently and instead of necroing i thought i would post new version fresh. As always, looking for any feedback on viablitiy and areas of improvement

Race: Human (variant)
Stats (w/racial mods): Str 8 Int 10 Dex 16 Wis 16 Con 10 Cha 14
Levels: Monk (shadow) 6/Warlock 4
Pact Weapon: Quaterstaff
Feats: Polearm Master/Sentinel/Warcaster
Invocations: Devil Sight/Repelling blast
Pact: Arch fey

So the basic gist is,at level 10 (which i agree is a while for this build to get it's shtick, but we usually play from level 7) is that i can move about 105 ft to get to any archers, spell casters, etc. and keep them locked down. I do this by using my movement of 45, then, provided there is dim light or darkness, teleport as a bonus action up to 60 ft, and get advantage on next attack. Instead of attacking i use Ki to cast darkness, rendering them useless against my friends and giving them disadvantage to hitting me. With sentinel, they cannot get away from me without provoking att, even if they disengage, and if i hit, which i should with advantage thanks to devil sight, their movement drops to 0, leaving them right next to me. and if they attack me, they have disadvantage as i am invisible to them. so i keep the archers/mages locked in the darkness while my party takes out melee. afterwards, i can assist.

outside of that shtick, if i am out of Ki or whatever, i still have polearm master/sentinel combo coupled with warcaster. if they get next to me, i can use opportunity att, and with warcaster that att can be a cantrip. in comes eldricht blast with repelling blast to knock them away 10 ft, rendering movement 0 and unable to press the assault. plus if there is dim light or darkness i can still bonus action teleport for advantage.

If i get in a bind against a boss mob who hits me with multiple attacks, after the first one, i can teleport thanks to archfey level 4 ability after taking damage rendering the other attacks as fails

and with that pact i can cast faerie fire giving advantage to EVERYONE, plus, if we need to sneak i will have pass without trace from monk allowing +10 stealth checks and we are silent.

Remaining levels will go to monk, giving proficient to all saves, etc

All other ASI will go to Dex and Wis to add to AC

So that is the concept. It seems really nice on paper, what do you guys think it will be like on execution?

[Fralex]

So that is the concept. It seems really nice on paper, what do you guys think it will be like on execution?

I don't know, you've probably put more thought into it than me! I just wanted to say this sounds really cool, and you should tell us what it's like when you get the chance to try it!

[Person_Man]

Concept is cool.

I personally would not multi-class with Monk/Warlock, particularly for a 10th level build. You're denying yourself access to mid-high level class abilities in exchange for some moderately useful synergies with low-level abilities.

Strait Warlock is most powerful at levels 10ish, when all of his spells are cast out of 4th/5th level slots and are restored on a Short Rest. Spells that appear to be meh at first glance are actually crazy powerful because of this when you think through the math.

On the flip side, strait Monk has enough Ki points that they can Flurry and Stun enemies in every combat, gets Evasion, and is only 1 level away from Cloak of Shadows, and 4 levels away from Diamond Soul.

I would also dump Charisma or Wisdom (depending on which class I went with) and maybe drop one Feat to get your Cha, Dex, or Wis to 20 (again, depending on the class choice and build focus). This would raise overall effectiveness by 10%, instead of being mediocre at a larger number of options.

[JonIrenicus]

Concept is cool.

I personally would not multi-class with Monk/Warlock, particularly for a 10th level build. You're denying yourself access to mid-high level class abilities in exchange for some moderately useful synergies with low-level abilities.

Strait Warlock is most powerful at levels 10ish, when all of his spells are cast out of 4th/5th level slots and are restored on a Short Rest. Spells that appear to be meh at first glance are actually crazy powerful because of this when you think through the math.

On the flip side, strait Monk has enough Ki points that they can Flurry and Stun enemies in every combat, gets Evasion, and is only 1 level away from Cloak of Shadows, and 4 levels away from Diamond Soul.

I would also dump Charisma or Wisdom (depending on which class I went with) and maybe drop one Feat to get your Cha, Dex, or Wis to 20 (again, depending on the class choice and build focus). This would raise overall effectiveness by 10%, instead of being mediocre at a larger number of options.

I get what you are saying, but I'm pretty taken with the devil sight, especially as human. Full drow/svirnebli darkvision PLUS seeing in magical, pairs great i think with shadow monk. However, if i take 2 lvl dip in warlock i could still get this benefit, but i lose not only Pact weapon and the on hit teleport reaction, but an ASI which mean losing feat or stat bump, hence why i was thinking on the 4 levels......

well, AFB so i will have to re-evaluate when i get home

[odigity]

I'm playing a similar char right now (GOO Warlock 2 / Shadow Monk 7).

It's one of the most MAD (Multiple Ability Dependent) combinations you can have because every stat now matters to you except Str/Int (and even Str matters a little if you don't want to be a bad ass Monk who falls off a rope when trying to climb).

To add to that the feat package of Polearm Master + Sentinel + War Caster is insane.

My other char so far was a Polearm Master/Sentinal Paladin. I thought about dipping Warlock and adding War Caster, but it's just overkill *and* redundant, which is not an efficient use of the single most precious commodity in the game (feats/ASIs). In that scenario, I would either go Polearm Master/Sentinel *or* Sentinal/War Caster.

But I would never build a Monk/Warlock that *also* needed 2-3 feats to function, because you when building a Monk/Warlock you need every feat/ASi to boost core stats or you'll be hating life. (I've managed to get my Dex to 20 already, but my Con, Wis, and Cha are still at 14 -- which makes Eldritch Blast an unreliable though still useful ranged weapon.)

[odigity]

I get what you are saying, but I'm pretty taken with the devil sight, especially as human. Full drow/svirnebli darkvision PLUS seeing in magical, pairs great i think with shadow monk. However, if i take 2 lvl dip in warlock i could still get this benefit, but i lose not only Pact weapon and the on hit teleport reaction, but an ASI which mean losing feat or stat bump, hence why i was thinking on the 4 levels......

I can confirm that Darkness + Devil's Sight is just as awesome as it seems, and the darkness greatly helps in teleporting when you find yourself in a room with no dim light (torches yield 20' bright light).

I don't intend to go past Warlock 2 because it's not worth two extra levels to me to get an ASI, and because the Monk 18 ability is *awesome*. The pact abilities are cute but not crucial; I already have another party member who is a full warlock with Book book/invocations *and* a familiar, so I don't want to double up on those, and the Pact weapon boon would be pure fluff at this point -- being able to hide and retrieve my weapon occassionally.)

[Person_Man]

Just remember that Warlock does get Invisibility, Gaseous Form, and Misty Step. So if you're wedded to Warlock for Devil's Sight, which is indeed cool, you can play a strait Warlock and still get anywhere you want to be, and would arguably be more effective at it. You'd just be limited to 3-4 times per Short Rest, and not at-will like a Shadow Monk.

Which is not to say that Shadow Monk isn't awesome. It is, especially once you hit 11th level. It's just that Monk by itself is awesome, and Warlock by itself is awesome, but mixing them together doesn't yield a tremendous synergy. (Unless its gestalt).

[Easy_Lee]

I agree that the build is too MAD for what you are trying to do. Depending on how you want to build this character, you don't need some of the options you've chosen.

If you want fey warlock mixed with monk, I would lower WIS and make CHA + DEX your primary stats. You can start as a warlock 2 / monk 5, take monk 8 for the teleport and evasion, then take the rest of your levels in warlock, blade pact. Declare unarmed strike your pact weapon, and you can have a nice capstone when you get to warlock 12. That build fills the "shadow warrior" concept nicely, is good at dealing with casters, and will have enough spells and escape mechanisms to do well in most situations. Invocations would be good as well, and you could even pick up the jump invocation and combine it with your monk ability for some great jumping power. You would not need polearm mastery for this build, and I would drop sentinel in favor of stats (stats are always useful, Sentinel is only useful sometimes).

If you want to be primarily monk, you could take four levels of warlock so as not to lose your ASI progression. Ignore EB and keep CHA low, investing in DEX and WIS instead. Pick up spells that are either buffs or don't have saves, such as Hex, which will work well with your monk abilities. For this build, you could safely drop both war caster and polearm mastery, investing in sentinel and stats instead.

If you want a warlock mix, take one level of monk for DEX to monk weapons and then go straight warlock. This is a simple enough build, and let's you utilize the feats you want without being quite as MAD (though I would drop sentinel in this case). However, this build is arguably inferior to a fighter 1 / warlock variant.

If you just want a highly mobile polearm character, then I don't think warlock is the way to do it, at least not at those levels. Take eight levels of monk for evasion, the teleport, and a sizable ki pool, then go champion or battle master fighter. Fighter will give you the extra ASI the build needs to afford everything you want. Champion can be used to make you even more mobile and raise your initiative (remarkable athlete) and let you do consistent damage, while battle master gives you some very nice things to play with like precision attack and riposte. You also get action surge and a considerable boost to your HP over a monk / warlock multiclass. With this build, you could even take six levels of fighter and go the rest in monk, front - loading your feats and letting you eventually pick up most of the best monk abilities.

Just my thoughts.

[JonIrenicus]

To add to that the feat package of Polearm Master + Sentinel + War Caster is insane.

My other char so far was a Polearm Master/Sentinal Paladin. I thought about dipping Warlock and adding War Caster, but it's just overkill *and* redundant, which is not an efficient use of the single most precious commodity in the game (feats/ASIs). In that scenario, I would either go Polearm Master/Sentinel *or* Sentinal/War Caster.

The point of all those feats was because while polearm master lists quaterstaff, quaterstaffs dont have reach, so to get the "benefit of the combo" i needed to add warcaster for repelling blast in lieu of reach. However, thinking about it, if i dont focus on that combo, i free up 2 ASIs as variant human gets free feat and i can just take sentinal to keep ranged/mages locked in darkness, thus increasing my stats enough to make AC higher and worry less about being hit, cause that would grant me +2 ac if i put those 4 points into dex and wis.....

Or, if I go 2 warlock i miss an ASI so only get the +1 ac, but open up monk abilities more, but i hate missing an ASI....

But even if i go 4 warlock, i think the effectiveness of the build goes up that way

i appreciate all the comments it is helping me streamline the concept into something that might be pretty fun and not under performing, because this versipn does not make multiclassing easy lol

[JonIrenicus]

I agree that the build is too MAD for what you are trying to do. Depending on how you want to build this character, you don't need some of the options you've chosen.

If you want fey warlock mixed with monk, I would lower WIS and make CHA + DEX your primary stats. You can start as a warlock 2 / monk 5, take monk 8 for the teleport and evasion, then take the rest of your levels in warlock, blade pact. Declare unarmed strike your pact weapon, and you can have a nice capstone when you get to warlock 12. That build fills the "shadow warrior" concept nicely, is good at dealing with casters, and will have enough spells and escape mechanisms to do well in most situations. Invocations would be good as well, and you could even pick up the jump invocation and combine it with your monk ability for some great jumping power. You would not need polearm mastery for this build, and I would drop sentinel in favor of stats (stats are always useful, Sentinel is only useful sometimes).

If you want to be primarily monk, you could take four levels of warlock so as not to lose your ASI progression. Ignore EB and keep CHA low, investing in DEX and WIS instead. Pick up spells that are either buffs or don't have saves, such as Hex, which will work well with your monk abilities. For this build, you could safely drop both war caster and polearm mastery, investing in sentinel and stats instead.

If you want a warlock mix, take one level of monk for DEX to monk weapons and then go straight warlock. This is a simple enough build, and let's you utilize the feats you want without being quite as MAD (though I would drop sentinel in this case). However, this build is arguably inferior to a fighter 1 / warlock variant.

If you just want a highly mobile polearm character, then I don't think warlock is the way to do it, at least not at those levels. Take eight levels of monk for evasion, the teleport, and a sizable ki pool, then go champion or battle master fighter. Fighter will give you the extra ASI the build needs to afford everything you want. Champion can be used to make you even more mobile and raise your initiative (remarkable athlete) and let you do consistent damage, while battle master gives you some very nice things to play with like precision attack and riposte. You also get action surge and a considerable boost to your HP over a monk / warlock multiclass. With this build, you could even take six levels of fighter and go the rest in monk, front - loading your feats and letting you eventually pick up most of the best monk abilities.

Just my thoughts.
great advice, i was just thinking the same thing and was posting it before i saw your post

[Sabeta]

If I knew the game a little better I would have probably gone Wood Elf, but I too use the Shadow Monk + Warlock combo.

I went with Half-Elf, and started off going Monk 6/Warlock 2. I did not take feats. We rolled for our stats, so mine are pretty high in the relevant areas, of importance is the 16 Dex, 16 Wis, and 15 Cha.

I tend to drop darkness on people then teleport behind them (I'll usually pin the Darkness to them; which has proved hilarious at times when they run around the battlefield. Causing the field to change drastically every turn)

After that I can use my KI points for Stunning Strikes, and then take away their weapons (Stunned enemies automatically fail their strength and DEX saving throws, so my DM allows this as an object interaction)

Arch Fey is pretty cool. Faerie Fire makes me feel like a light/dark mage. I drop the enemy ranged units into darkness, and light up the melee units for easy hits.

I'm slightly MAD, but a monks basic features even when low/out of Ki are still very potent compared to other Martial classes.

I need to double check, as I'm AFB, but if Warlock has access to the Darkness Spell then you can use that to help save on Ki points. Taking a level in Warlock would probably be worth it.

[JonIrenicus]

another option i just considered is monk ac is based of dex and wis, but at 16, thats a +3, if i drop wisdom down to the 14 i have in Cha, and put the 16 in Cha, that would help my warlock abilities without sacrificing AC, cause if i am not taking Repelling blast i can take the Invocation that grants me mage armor without using spell slots for 13+dex instead netting me the same AC, cause i can put those 4 ASIs into dex and increace AC and ATT at the same time.....

i am liking this better already

[Sabeta]

My problem with Mage Armor is the action requirement. Between Darkness, Mage Armor, and just plain Attacking you start getting very cluttered. Mage Armor does last for 8 hours though, right? I suppose you could just refresh every time.

How does Mage Armor work with Unarmored Movement/Defence.

[Easy_Lee]

another option i just considered is monk ac is based of dex and wis, but at 16, thats a +3, if i drop wisdom down to the 14 i have in Cha, and put the 16 in Cha, that would help my warlock abilities without sacrificing AC, cause if i am not taking Repelling blast i can take the Invocation that grants me mage armor without using spell slots for 13+dex instead netting me the same AC, cause i can put those 4 ASIs into dex and increace AC and ATT at the same time.....

i am liking this better already

Right, though bear in mind that your stunning strike will suffer. That's the tricky part about the multiclass, though a shadow monk fortunately has plenty to do with their ki as is.

Still, stunning strike is arguably the best anti-caster tool in the game, since it's a CON save stun and can be used so often. If you just want a character who can deal with casters and be mobile, straight shadow monk with mage slayer is probably the best. You can RP the hell out of that too.

"A wizard killed my parents and left me an orphan on the street. The Order of the Yellow Rose found me before I could join a gang or make any mistakes (background: urchin/acolyte). I've dedicated my life to finding mages who abuse their undeserved power, and ending them."

[JonIrenicus]

My problem with Mage Armor is the action requirement. Between Darkness, Mage Armor, and just plain Attacking you start getting very cluttered. Mage Armor does last for 8 hours though, right? I suppose you could just refresh every time.

How does Mage Armor work with Unarmored Movement/Defence.

yea its an 8 hour duration so cast out of combat and BAM you are good. as far as interacting with unarmored defense, it does not. I am AFB, but if i remember, the unarmored defense is the monk calc for ac which is 10 +dex + wis right? if that is the description it is voided with mage armor, its calc is 13 +dex. but for me, with only 3 mod in wis, the AC remains the same. now later on in the levels i can add to wis making it more, then i have no extra invocation, but i was not counting on one anyway lol

[Easy_Lee]

yea its an 8 hour duration so cast out of combat and BAM you are good. as far as interacting with unarmored defense, it does not. I am AFB, but if i remember, the unarmored defense is the monk calc for ac which is 10 +dex + wis right? if that is the description it is voided with mage armor, its calc is 13 +de.

Exactly correct.

[JonIrenicus]

Right, though bear in mind that your stunning strike will suffer. That's the tricky part about the multiclass, though a shadow monk fortunately has plenty to do with their ki as is.

Still, stunning strike is arguably the best anti-caster tool in the game, since it's a CON save stun and can be used so often. If you just want a character who can deal with casters and be mobile, straight shadow monk with mage slayer is probably the best. You can RP the hell out of that too.

"A wizard killed my parents and left me an orphan on the street. The Order of the Yellow Rose found me before I could join a gang or make any mistakes (background: urchin/acolyte). I've dedicated my life to finding mages who abuse their undeserved power, and ending them."
thats a decent start to a back story lol, but my goal was not really CASTERS in particular just taking the ranged in general out of the fight, without making myself ineffective, hence darkness devil sight combo. But stunning strike is still a good use of Ki for any mob i think, unless it is a tank with Con to the heavens

My backstory is being flushed out, but i was thinking urchin, grew up on the streets a thief, hiding in the shadows to survive when he robbed a monk and as "punishment" took him to his order to labor and trained him unbeknowst to him (it the Master Miagi style lol) and on his first mission abroad ran into a demon that forced him into a pact or die cause he saw the potonetial he had in being in shadows

[Person_Man]

Still, stunning strike is arguably the best anti-caster tool in the game, since it's a CON save stun and can be used so often. If you just want a character who can deal with casters and be mobile, straight shadow monk with mage slayer is probably the best. You can RP the hell out of that too.

I would argue that Counterspell cast by a Warlock (auto-scales up to 5th level) is superior when facing 1 spellcaster. It works automatically as a Reaction (unless they're casting a 6th level or higher spell, and even then it has a high chance of success), whereas Stunning Strike requires a successful attack roll for you to trigger it and allows a Saving Throw, and many spell using monsters have high Con and/or Legendary abilities.

Though on the flip side, Stunning Strike is superior when facing multiple spell wielding enemies, but only if your Wisdom is high and their Con is not.

[Easy_Lee]

thats a decent start to a back story lol, but my goal was not really CASTERS in particular just taking the ranged in general out of the fight, without making myself ineffective, hence darkness devil sight combo. But stunning strike is still a good use of Ki for any mob i think, unless it is a tank with Con to the heavens

Gotcha. For just ranged in general, Sentinel + shadow step is probably good enough, and you're right that darkness + devil's sight would help towards achieving both of those ends. I'm thinking that 4 warlock / monk X, DEX and WIS with devil's sight and DC-less warlock spells, is how I would personally accomplish the build.

With a chain pact warlock, you could cast darkness on your imp / pseudo dragon familiar and have him fly around with it too, unless that doesn't work anymore. A globe of darkness traversing the battlefield, whoever it engulfs ends up dead a few rounds later...thats a pretty cool image, IMO.

[ChubbyRain]

The key to making this work is to not rely on attacking or saves with the warlock side. Use invocations and spells to boost your utility.

Great Old One/Shadow Monk works fabtastically. At level 12 your ability scores can look like this (half elf).

10, 18, 14, 8, 16, 14

AC 17
HP: 87

For utility take...
Chain pact
GOO: Awaken Mind
One With Shadows: Invisibility as an action, this has great potential when laying traps and such.
Devil Sight: Nuff said

If you are ever caught without shadows you can have Darkness and Mirror Image up. If they get through that... Well 1/rest you can use Entropic Ward to impose disadvantage.

Take your next level in warlock to gain Polymorph 1/day (utility!). I would then just finish out with Warlock or Monk at this point depending how you want it to go.

I really like enthrall but the monk has some nice things too.

You are a pretty dang good Gish when played half way intelligently.

Edit: Yeah I wouldn't take Eldritch Blast with this build, mostly so you don't get the urge to use it lol

[Sabeta]

I see the term frequently, but what is Gish?

[ChubbyRain]

I see the term frequently, but what is Gish?

Generally used as a caster/martial mix.

You use both spells and physical ability to get the job done.

Think... Paladin or Warlock (Pact of the Blade).

[Person_Man]

I see the term frequently, but what is Gish?

The 1st edition D&D Fiend Folio (one of the first supplements) had something called a Githyanki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Githyanki) in it and on the cover.

It could cast arcane spells while also using weapons and armor normally reserved for warriors. The fluff was also focused on the fact that they could use arcane spells and fight effectively, which in 1E, players could only accomplish by being a multiclass Fighter/Magic-User. So the shorted version of their name, Gish, became synonymous with being a Fighter/Magic-User, and later a Fighter/Wizard, and then anyone who was a mix of front line fighting while using arcane magic.

[WunSukong]

I like the idea, and it would be great if it wasn't quite so hard to make it actually work.

Would it be terribly unbalanced to home-brew a Warlock who casts off of wisdom instead of charisma?

I ran into the issue because I wanted to make a bender-like character by mixing monk and warlock but multi classing and MAD made it not work out very well. I then took it one step further by home brewing a watebender by reflavoring a warlock, and I'm pretty proud of what it can do so far.

To be honest, I feel that this edition has a huge focus on light rules and DM and Player interaction ironing out the details. It's exciting, because it actually lets you play out the concepts you want more easily.

[RulesJD]

The only real downside to this build is that your Con will be pretty low in a pointbuy environment.

Personally, I would go with Fiend for the self-heal of 4-5hp per kill. Not super strong, but a great way of increasing your staying power in combat.

Also, the single greatest feature of this build is having access to Hex. 4 Attacks per round = 4d6 extra damage if all hit. At level 5, this means if 4 attacks hit (with advantage from Stunning Strike that's not unlikely), you'll be hitting for a Fireball damage +16 each round. Not too shabby. You can't combo with Darkness because of concentration requirement, but frankly in actual table top play I rarely see Darkness used due to how crippling it is to your party mates who lack Devil's Sight.

[JonIrenicus]

The only real downside to this build is that your Con will be pretty low in a pointbuy environment.

Personally, I would go with Fiend for the self-heal of 4-5hp per kill. Not super strong, but a great way of increasing your staying power in combat.

Also, the single greatest feature of this build is having access to Hex. 4 Attacks per round = 4d6 extra damage if all hit. At level 5, this means if 4 attacks hit (with advantage from Stunning Strike that's not unlikely), you'll be hitting for a Fireball damage +16 each round. Not too shabby. You can't combo with Darkness because of concentration requirement, but frankly in actual table top play I rarely see Darkness used due to how crippling it is to your party mates who lack Devil's Sight.
Well the darkness combo would be for locking down ranged mobs, outside of that the hex combo would be what I use after they are dispatched to increase my dps, and, if there is darkness or dim light, I can still bonus action teleport for advantage

[Person_Man]

Would it be terribly unbalanced to home-brew a Warlock who casts off of wisdom instead of charisma?

It would be stronger, since Wisdom is a more useful ability score then Charisma. But not terribly so.



I ran into the issue because I wanted to make a bender-like character by mixing monk and warlock but multi classing and MAD made it not work out very well. I then took it one step further by home brewing a watebender by reflavoring a warlock, and I'm pretty proud of what it can do so far.

To be honest, I feel that this edition has a huge focus on light rules and DM and Player interaction ironing out the details. It's exciting, because it actually lets you play out the concepts you want more easily.

I agree.

Honestly, there's be nothing wrong with a shadow/darkness themed homebrew class that used Monk or Warlock as the chassis. You'd just have to give up a somewhat more powerful class ability for each one you borrowed from another class (since you'd be gaining a synergy in addition to the ability itself).

For this case, I would use Shadow Monk as the chassis, and give up Stillness of Mind or Purity of Body for Devil's Sight. Something like that would deliver on the core concept of the build goal, without stepping on the Warlock's Eldritch Blast niche.

[Easy_Lee]

Honestly, there's be nothing wrong with a shadow/darkness themed homebrew class that used Monk or Warlock as the chassis. You'd just have to give up a somewhat more powerful class ability for each one you borrowed from another class (since you'd be gaining a synergy in addition to the ability itself).

For this case, I would use Shadow Monk as the chassis, and give up Stillness of Mind or Purity of Body for Devil's Sight. Something like that would deliver on the core concept of the build goal, without stepping on the Warlock's Eldritch Blast niche.

I agree with this. Some sensible Homebrew can enable a wide variety of builds, this being one of them.

In all honesty, I'm surprised that shadow monks don't get a form of blind sense or devil's sight by default. It's a bit of an oversight, IMO.

[odigity]

One more note on the notion of a Polearm Master Monk:

The benefit of Polearm Master is the addition of a bonus action attack trigger and a reaction attack trigger. Monks already have a bonus action attack trigger built-in (Martial Arts), and I don't think getting an Op. Attack when an enemy approaches is worth a feat -- especially for a teleporting Monk.


Arch Fey is pretty cool. Faerie Fire makes me feel like a light/dark mage. I drop the enemy ranged units into darkness, and light up the melee units for easy hits.

Both Darkness and Faerie Fire are concentration spells. You can't keep both up by yourself at the same time.


Also, the single greatest feature of this build is having access to Hex. 4 Attacks per round = 4d6 extra damage if all hit.

As someone who's currently playing a Warlock 2 / Monk 7, who started as Warlock 1 and therefore has had Hex since the beginning, I can say that while Hex has certainly been fun and occassionally pays off well, it's becoming harder and harder to find situations where it's the best use of my bonus action. I have so many great bonus actions now, and you have to use a bonus action every time you move the Hex to a new target, that it really only makes sense when either:

a) I plan to attack the same enemy for more than 1 round (pretty rare if we're ganging up or he's not that tough)
b) It's an ambush, and I have time to cast it before battle (which is neat because when you Hex their Dex, it affects their init roll)

However, even then it still competes with my concentration slot, which oftens wants to go to Darkness or Silence.

Hex makes more sense when combined with Elrditch Blast than with Monk melee attacks, but it's still a nice option to have.

[RulesJD]

One more note on the notion of a Polearm Master Monk:

The benefit of Polearm Master is the addition of a bonus action attack trigger and a reaction attack trigger. Monks already have a bonus action attack trigger built-in (Martial Arts), and I don't think getting an Op. Attack when an enemy approaches is worth a feat -- especially for a teleporting Monk.



Both Darkness and Faerie Fire are concentration spells. You can't keep both up by yourself at the same time.



As someone who's currently playing a Warlock 2 / Monk 7, who started as Warlock 1 and therefore has had Hex since the beginning, I can say that while Hex has certainly been fun and occassionally pays off well, it's becoming harder and harder to find situations where it's the best use of my bonus action. I have so many great bonus actions now, and you have to use a bonus action every time you move the Hex to a new target, that it really only makes sense when either:

a) I plan to attack the same enemy for more than 1 round (pretty rare if we're ganging up or he's not that tough)
b) It's an ambush, and I have time to cast it before battle (which is neat because when you Hex their Dex, it affects their init roll)

However, even then it still competes with my concentration slot, which oftens wants to go to Darkness or Silence.

Hex makes more sense when combined with Elrditch Blast than with Monk melee attacks, but it's still a nice option to have.

Agreed on the problems with bonus action management. On my Paladin/Warlock (3 so Darkness/Devil's Sight combo as well) with GWM I run into a bit of the same problem where it's a decision between damage, buff, or concentration. However, I still think it's well worth it given the restrictions Darkness places upon the rest of your party. I think the key is to act as a scout with your Rogue, so you can Hex before combat in most encounters.

One trick I've found effective is to Hex the main BBEG while still beating up on the minions. That way when you switch to damage the BBEG, Hex is already running so you can Teleport and still use all your fun bonus attacks. Obviously no matter what though a Shadow Monk will have a problem with Bonus action management.

[Person_Man]

I agree with this. Some sensible Homebrew can enable a wide variety of builds, this being one of them.

In all honesty, I'm surprised that shadow monks don't get a form of blind sense or devil's sight by default. It's a bit of an oversight, IMO.

I assume its because the Shadow Monk can cast Darkvision, and whoever wrote the Monk assumed that would allow them to see in darkness without actually paying close attention to the spell, when in fact you are correct, they cannot see in their own magically created darkness.

Alternatively, its possible that they thought that it would be too powerful. After all, the Rogue doesn't get limited Blindsense (a weaker ability) until 14th level.

But then they ended up giving it to the Warlock anyway as a low level ability, most likely for the sake of tradition, since it was a major feature of the 3.5 Warlock.


Another solution would be to eliminate Devil's Sight, add Darkvision to the Warlock's spell list, have the duration and range of increase as you cast it out of a higher level slot, and allow it to bypass magical Darkness when cast out of a 4th level slot or higher.

That way, the combo becomes available to the Monk, Ranger, etc. But the Warlock still gets the best version of it, since their spells auto-scale. As an added benefit, its more balanced and encourages players to use more diverse tactics. The player isn't going to just take the at-will Invocation spam the tactic whenever possible. They have to choose to use the spell slot.

[ChubbyRain]

I assume its because the Shadow Monk can cast Darkvision, and whoever wrote the Monk assumed that would allow them to see in darkness without actually paying close attention to the spell, when in fact you are correct, they cannot see in their own magically created darkness.

Alternatively, its possible that they thought that it would be too powerful. After all, the Rogue doesn't get limited Blindsense (a weaker ability) until 14th level.

But then they ended up giving it to the Warlock anyway as a low level ability, most likely for the sake of tradition, since it was a major feature of the 3.5 Warlock.


Another solution would be to eliminate Devil's Sight, add Darkvision to the Warlock's spell list, have the duration and range of increase as you cast it out of a higher level slot, and allow it to bypass magical Darkness when cast out of a 4th level slot or higher.

That way, the combo becomes available to the Monk, Ranger, etc. But the Warlock still gets the best version of it, since their spells auto-scale. As an added benefit, its more balanced and encourages players to use more diverse tactics. The player isn't going to just take the at-will Invocation spam the tactic whenever possible. They have to choose to use the spell slot.

Yaaaay 3.e again!

Seriously this is why splat started to suck and power creep was an issue in 3e, not because there were actual options.

But yeah I do like the idea that the spell Darkvision when cast at a higher level than the darkness can penetrate it like a light spell could. They already have the feature so applying it to other spells would be simple enough.

[SharkForce]

alternately, it would not be unheard of for there to be a darkness spell that the caster can see through just fine. i know for sure those existed in 2nd, and i'm pretty sure they existed in 3e. not sure about 4e, but in any event, it certainly wouldn't be something unheard of in D&D.

[Person_Man]

Yaaaay 3.e again!

Well, its important to remember that the main design goal of 5E was to cater to the players/traditions of previous editions. Simplicity and balance were important. But having each class "feel like" what it was like to play that class in previous editions was more important. That's why you sometimes end up with unintuitive/unbalanced class abilities.

[ChubbyRain]

Well, its important to remember that the main design goal of 5E was to cater to the players/traditions of previous editions. Simplicity and balance were important. But having each class "feel like" what it was like to play that class in previous editions was more important. That's why you sometimes end up with unintuitive/unbalanced class abilities.

3e had some really broken stuff because, of what looked like, lack of communication. That is what I meant.

Like the person making the martial characters were one dude and the ones making the casters were another dude and the third dude didn't really cross reference them.

And then later with all the feats and spells... They made some classes obsolete. Which really some classes needed to be done away with of course.

Still not sure why the Warblade wasn't just called "Fighter .75".

It really seems like 5e had little conversation between different parts. Like the person doing the weapon table and the person doing casters didn't have the same definition of classic/simple.