Best Way to Keep a Dragon Down

[DireSickFish]

What is the best way to nullify the Dragons advantage of flight and the superior movement that comes with it? Our group finally managed to kill a dragon instead of it getting away. As a lvl11 sorcerer I was the only one in the group who could target his saves in a meaningful way. So I was reduced to spamming heightened hold monster. I converted all my spell slots into sorcery points then into 5th level spells so I could keep up the spam. This eventually lead to 1 round of it being held where we could finally use are strongest damaging abilities.

What are some more reliable ways to get a dragon to fight on our terms?

[MustacheFart]

What is the best way to nullify the Dragons advantage of flight and the superior movement that comes with it? Our group finally managed to kill a dragon instead of it getting away. As a lvl11 sorcerer I was the only one in the group who could target his saves in a meaningful way. So I was reduced to spamming heightened hold monster. I converted all my spell slots into sorcery points then into 5th level spells so I could keep up the spam. This eventually lead to 1 round of it being held where we could finally use are strongest damaging abilities.

What are some more reliable ways to get a dragon to fight on our terms?

Depends on the size of the dragon but the easiest way I know is grappling.

Rogue/bard expertise on athletics + 20 strength + barbarian advantage while raging + enlarge person spell.

That's what I plan to pull out as soon as I get to fight one at the end of HOTDQ.

[Shining Wrath]

Getting the dragon into a cavern helps. Other than that, get flight yourselves.

[BranMan]

Get your barbarian, moon druid, athletics expertise rogue, or anyone with the grappler feat to somehow tackle the darn thing and lock it down. All of its speeds will become zero and it will be easy to gang up on.

ETA it shouldn't matter the size of the dragon if you're turning into a big animal or have the grappler feat.

[DireSickFish]

Getting the dragon into a cavern helps. Other than that, get flight yourselves.

The Dragons flight speed tends to be faster than available flight methods. The DM is fond of strafing with the breath weapon then staying out of range till it recharges. Is there a form of flight that will let me keep up with them? As a dragon sorcerer I guess I'll be getting flight in a few levels permanently.

[Ralanr]

Get on the back somehow and remove at least one wing.

[Easy_Lee]

It depends a lot on the DM. A strict reading of the text allows one to knock a target prone while in the air, which may result in the thing crashing to the ground. If the thing has legendary resistances, blowing through those (monks can be good for this) and then dropping a hold monster or similar may do the trick. Finding a cave or other source of shelter may force the thing down to your level.

But you're probably not going to beat, or even match, the thing's speed unless you're a flying monk or pteranodon-mounted BM. If I were a monk in the game, I would try to acquire a flying speed and then stun the thing while it's in the air, or open hand flurry the thing into the ground (DEX save or prone) if the DM allowed that strategy.

Edit: a really big net might work. A net restrains any target that it hits, and the target is restrained until it uses its action to free itself with a DC 10 strength check. You'd need a bigger net than the one on the weapons table if the dragon is huge or larger.

[MustacheFart]

Also the dmg has rules for treating bigger creatures as terrain for the purpose of climbing aboard. I would consider the following:

1) grappling hooks
2) arrows with rope afixed aka harpoons
3) teleporting the party onto the back of the dragon.

Once on top use ropes with pitons or what have you to affix yourself to the dragon. Should help from being shook off. Bonus points for doing such on the back of the dragon's head. Good luck with the breath attack unless it can shoot through the back of it's skull.

Then just stab/attack away. As it drops to 0 hit it with featherfall so you can ride your dragon corpse chariot safely to the ground in victory.

[Rhaegar14]

Well Earthbind, a 2nd level spell from the Elemental Evil Player's Companion, reduces a monster's fly speed to zero for up to a minute (Concentration) if they fail a Strength saving throw. I imagine a dragon's Strength save is pretty high but it still probably requires less resources than spamming Hold Monster.

[Ralanr]

I wish the system supported specific point targeting and large and up creatures.

Knee capping Giants with a hammer seems like a viable tactic.

[Shining Wrath]

If the DM is using strafe attacks, getting yourself under cover and readying an action to attack as the dragon passes ought to work.

If your DM refuses to provide any cover at all, doesn't give you flight, and doesn't give you any means of inducing the dragon to enter a cavern or building, while using flyby breath attacks, your DM had better adjust CR accordingly, unless TPK is a goal.

[Easy_Lee]

If your DM refuses to provide any cover at all, doesn't give you flight, and doesn't give you any means of inducing the dragon to enter a cavern or building, while using flyby breath attacks, your DM had better adjust CR accordingly, unless TPK is a goal.

In that case, tell the DM that he'd better check his privileges.

[Pyon]

You could use the high level shout, dragonrend. Oh wait wrong game... :smallbiggrin:

[META_mahn]

The best way?
Grapple the dragon

Well, it's a bit more complicated.

First, cast Contagion: Rotting whatever on it. Now whenever you hit it, it is stunned. Refresh Contagion whenever you have to.
Next, get a monk to stand right next to it. When it tries to run, do the Monk thing where its movement speed is set down to zero.
Then, topple it over. Make sure it never gets up from being prone.
Finally, get two of your highest strength guys to grapple it together.

The dragon can't run now.

[HockeyPokeyBard]

The most reliable way is to use a harpoon, simply because its what humanity did to successfully hunt whales for a long time. You'll need to work out specifics with your DM but by your level, you can afford a bunch of harpoons and the big crossbows needed to fire them. Get prepared and string that puppy up.

[Shining Wrath]

The most reliable way is to use a harpoon, simply because its what humanity did to successfully hunt whales for a long time. You'll need to work out specifics with your DM but by your level, you can afford a bunch of harpoons and the big crossbows needed to fire them. Get prepared and string that puppy up.

Said harpoons must be made of black metal and fired from a Dwarven arbalest :smallamused:

[Dorphius]

in our group, we had a ranged fighter, who just used his crossbow, and superiority dice to "knock it prone" which will knock down anything flying in the sky. So any ability to knock something prone, will also stop it from flying, unless its flying by some magic method like a potion or something. But if it uses wings to fly, then anything that would knock a creature prone, will also ground a flying creature, and take falling damage on the way down.

[DireSickFish]

If the DM is using strafe attacks, getting yourself under cover and readying an action to attack as the dragon passes ought to work.

If your DM refuses to provide any cover at all, doesn't give you flight, and doesn't give you any means of inducing the dragon to enter a cavern or building, while using flyby breath attacks, your DM had better adjust CR accordingly, unless TPK is a goal.

The problem isn't that the dragon is going to kill us all. The problem is when we get it low it'll just fly away and live.

After the last fight our bard also picked up Hold Monster to spam with me when we find other dragons.

Grappling is a possibility as our Bard has a very high athletics check, but he doesn't have the grapple feat. What ways are there to get him big enough to wrestle a dragon? I think we were talking about polymorphing him into a great Ape, would that work?

[META_mahn]

The problem isn't that the dragon is going to kill us all. The problem is when we get it low it'll just fly away and live.

After the last fight our bard also picked up Hold Monster to spam with me when we find other dragons.

Grappling is a possibility as our Bard has a very high athletics check, but he doesn't have the grapple feat. What ways are there to get him big enough to wrestle a dragon? I think we were talking about polymorphing him into a great Ape, would that work?
Polymorphing is good too. A Centaur is viable, as well as a Quaggoth, but a Giant Ape's CR is too high for him. It has to be 2 3/4 or below. A Giant Constrictor Snake is viable as well, because one attack it has is to grapple someone.

[MustacheFart]

Polymorphing is good too. A Centaur is viable, as well as a Quaggoth, but a Giant Ape's CR is too high for him. It has to be 2 3/4 or below. A Giant Constrictor Snake is viable as well, because one attack it has is to grapple someone.

You can also goad the dragon into eating you whole and then attack him from the inside. Worked for my barbarian.

[SharkForce]

Polymorphing is good too. A Centaur is viable, as well as a Quaggoth, but a Giant Ape's CR is too high for him. It has to be 2 3/4 or below. A Giant Constrictor Snake is viable as well, because one attack it has is to grapple someone.

ummm... polymorph is capped at the CR of the target. if the target is at least the level of the person casting it, which is presumably 7 because that's the lowest level you can cast it at, giant ape is a valid choice.

i'd say it might be worth trying to find some way to teleport (short range is fine) onto the dragon's back. ideally one that your melee characters can use.

[LordVonDerp]

Harpoon it in the wing. Make sure to attach the other end to something heavy.

[Ralanr]

You can also goad the dragon into eating you whole and then attack him from the inside. Worked for my barbarian.

Did you punch it in the heart? I'm actually serious cause that's awesome.

[pibby]

Personally I like the idea of casting Tasha's Hideous Laughter several times just to burn the dragon's legendary saves. For a level 1 spell it does quite a lot for the party, especially if the party has paladins or rogues. I would only entertain the idea of Hold Monster once I know the legendary saves have been burned out. Even then, THL serves the same function as Hold Monster. It's best to cast it right before the dragon's turn so that the entire party can take full advantage of the spell. Even if the dragon makes the second save for the spell it is still prone.

[Icewraith]

Bigby's Hand + Warlock Hex. (Requires one spellcaster with Bigby's hand AND one spellcaster with Hex, usually a Warlock)

Force disadvantage on strength checks using Hex, then grapple a dragon of up to huge size using the hand. Place the hand so the dragon has to choose between breathing on it and the party. The dragon can attack it (it has the caster's max HP), so it won't last forever. But it will certainly pin one down for a couple rounds so the party can kill it. With disadvantage on strength checks and terrible Dex, the dragon won't be getting away from the hand anytime soon.

Make sure the casters are out of range of the dragon's breath weapon, or behind cover. If you don't make your dex save against the breath weapon you're looking at a DC 25+ Con save to avoid losing your spell.

[DireSickFish]

Bigby's Hand + Warlock Hex. (Requires one spellcaster with Bigby's hand AND one spellcaster with Hex, usually a Warlock)

Force disadvantage on strength checks using Hex, then grapple a dragon of up to huge size using the hand. Place the hand so the dragon has to choose between breathing on it and the party. The dragon can attack it (it has the caster's max HP), so it won't last forever. But it will certainly pin one down for a couple rounds so the party can kill it. With disadvantage on strength checks and terrible Dex, the dragon won't be getting away from the hand anytime soon.

Make sure the casters are out of range of the dragon's breath weapon, or behind cover. If you don't make your dex save against the breath weapon you're looking at a DC 25+ Con save to avoid losing your spell.

What levl spell is Bigbies for sorcerers? This seems like a great option if its based of caster HP because I have the most in the party. Hill Dwarf with 18 con and dragon sorcerer gives me 10hp/lvl when taking average. We also have a pair of warlocks that I assume took hex somewhere in there.

[illyrus]

This one depends a bit on your GM, but phantasmal force works well once the legendary resistance is gone and is on the sorc spell list.

Int save, but then a skill check after that requires them to burn their action if they even want to try it. Dragons tend to have int as their worst save. So even if legendary resistance is still around it is a decent spell to force them to burn saves.

Create the illusion of a bigby's hand grappling them or a wall of force around them. Or even some custom effect that would keep it grounded like chains binding its wings where they cannot flap. So the dragon is left with a choice, burn an action to maybe remove the effect (which it probably only has a 1 in 3 chance of removing) or else try to fight its way out.

[ChubbyRain]

My favorite maneuver from the DMG is the "climb onto a bigger creature".

Totally had expertise in handle animal... Used that in place of athletics for beasts, monstrosities, and dragons etc... My halfling monk/rogue was fun.

Punched the dragon in the back of the head, knocked it prone, then rode it to the ground.