[SOCIETY] need help shutting down 1 player

[arkangel111]

Alright here is the situation. In my PFS group there is 1 guy that always optimizes mass amount of attacks and damage. While I personally don't have a problem with that, I do have a problem with him COMPLETELY taking over the scenario, to the point where literally all 3 characters did (me included) was roll for initiative and then delay our turns. 6 people at the table and only 1 person got to do anything, the other 2 by the way happened to get in on 1 fight and were able to take 2 turns, otherwise they were doing the same the majority of the night.

Now you might ask "why did you delay?" he was playing a mounted build, his pet got 3 attacks (one on charge) and he got his. Combined with reach weapon and high dmg made it impossible to get a hit let alone a kill. The space his mount took up ensured no one could get near an enemy without also provoking yourself. On top of this he made sure to charge from room to room as fast as possible while we were left to inspect the corpses.

So I want a build that goes first and kills anything it encounters. Ideas? I would prefer not to make a carbon copy of his character, I just want to show him what its like when anyone else plays at the table with him. He does this every game and with a variety of characters but this latest one was by far the worst... I felt like I literally wasted 4 hours of my life to sit in a stuffy room with smelly gamers.

Oh and btw, since someone is going to ask. We have talked to him about it, at first we were trying to be tactful and said, try to rp more, and that ended up with very elaborate reasons why his characters must kill everything they see. We then were direct and yet he thinks its "cool" to be the strongest characters and continues to do it using the lame excuse, "well that's what my character would do!". I am done talking with him and I just want to shut him down for a couple games in a row. So maybe a build that doesn't require me to be always on, friendly enough to let other's have a turn if i let them but otherwise able to solo scenarios.

I need some help because I only get to play once a week right now and most characters I have are intentionally meant to share the light, and I am having a hard time coming up with something different. I am debating a summon focused summoner but I have seen them in play and they get a lot of actions but seem to be spending more time swinging than actually hitting.

[Crake]

I just want to show him what its like when anyone else plays at the table with him.

Engaging in rocket tag with the guy is not going to show him anything. If you want him to know how you feel about it, why not just express that with words? I think you'll find that taking this route will just exacerbate things. Explain to him that it's ruining the game for you, and that if he continues, you wont want to play with him.

If necessary, bring it up with the DM.

Edit: Should also note, that if you just want to roflstomp encounters, think about how that will make your DM feel, it's not just about that one guy.

[WeaselGuy]

First of all, there is no reason to be sitting in a "stuffy room with smelly gamers". Tell them to respect personal hygiene.

Secondly, how about saying to this guy something to the effect of "Hey man, uh, I don't like sitting around doing nothing for 4 hours while your guy hogs the spotlight. I understand, dominating fights is awesome and all, but the rest of the group not getting the chance to do anything at all isn't so much fun for the rest of us. Can you at least tone down your characters power, or, if not, would you mind terrible making a new character?"

If that doesn't work... I dunno, isn't the usual advice to make a Wizard or something?

[Kraken]

Vote with your feet. Refuse to play in the same group as him.

[arkangel111]

@first 2... done and done... no change. I believe I posted something similar to this 4 months ago and its still the same thing, with the same guy, though it could be on a different forum.

@ kraken, I am considering this option but due to the fact there is only 3 tables, one is usually core and the other is a different tier, that would mean more often than not I would likely be wasting the .5 hr drive only to turn around. While I can play core, I must have a character in tier to play it AND he has to not be in it.

[WeaselGuy]

Vote with your feet. Refuse to play in the same group as him.


@both... done and done... no change. I believe I posted something similar to this 4 months ago and its still the same thing, with the same guy, though it could be on a different forum.

Then yeah, I believe the old adage "no gaming is better than bad gaming" might apply here. Tell him (preferably as a group) that y'all aren't having any fun watching him steal the spotlight all the time, every time, and if he doesn't shape up, y'all will ship out.

Or, if you want to be a complete **** and try to get him to leave and not come back, I hear coup de grace's are all the rage these days. Guy's gotta sleep sometime.

[arkangel111]

I am a stay at home dad. bad gaming is better than no gaming. I only get one chance a week to get a break from my kids.

[WeaselGuy]

I am a stay at home dad. bad gaming is better than no gaming. I only get one chance a week to get a break from my kids.

Well... I mean, if the rest of the group is in consensus that they don't like the way this guy plays, the easiest way to deal with it is to kill his character. Either he'll make a new character (odds of the new character being as obnoxious if not more so are probably even), or he'll get upset and leave, perhaps to never return. Betrayal has that effect on people.

If he just doesn't understand how obnoxious his character's playstyle is, then that may be your only choice.

[Kraken]

Well... I mean, if the rest of the group is in consensus that they don't like the way this guy plays, the easiest way to deal with it is to kill his character. Either he'll make a new character (odds of the new character being as obnoxious if not more so are probably even), or he'll get upset and leave, perhaps to never return. Betrayal has that effect on people.

If he just doesn't understand how obnoxious his character's playstyle is, then that may be your only choice.

Player versus player combat is forbidden in Pathfinder Society. I would talk to one of the organizers about your problem, and encourage other players to do the same. At minimum, when groups are set up, hopefully this means you won't be placed in a group with him. Your best case scenario is that the powers that be decide he's disruptive enough that he should be barred from participating, but if his only sin is playing optimized characters, that's unlikely. If he's making sexist, homophobic, etc. comments at the table, has particularly poor personal hygiene, and/or other faults that would make people uncomfortable in general for out of game reasons, then you might stand more of a chance getting him barred from participating, though I've never heard of someone so problematic before.

If you're set on an ingame solution, you could also try to subtly perform actions that prevent him from participating in combat. If he's playing melee characters, the easiest thing to do would be to prevent him from getting to enemies, either by creating barriers, or summoning creatures. This is just an off the cuff idea, I'm not sure how easy it would be to pull off, especially without knowing their exact character.

[WeaselGuy]

Player versus player combat is forbidden in Pathfinder Society.

Oh. I didn't realize this was like, a formal gaming organization. Nifty. Also, solution limiting. It sounds as though there are multiple group options though? Perhaps try to get yourself placed into a different group? I don't really know how those things work.

Alternatively, try hitting up your local hobby shop, see if the owner knows of any local groups that are recruiting new members?

[Kraken]

In a nutshell, the way PFS works is that people show up, and then are divided into tables, and each runs their own scenario. If only 4 people show up each week, though, then the OP is probably screwed unless he can unite every other player in refusal to game with this one person.

[Angelmaker]

Dont engage in an arms race. Has already been mentioned.

1) talk to the other players and see if it is a problem for them.
2) take one of your fellow gamers to a talk with the gm.
3) let him setup encounters in which a) an ambus is psrung on to you or b) where the ceiling is not hogh enough for a mount.

Seriously? If ONE character is trivializing your encounters, you as a GM made some serious cockups.

Entangle the mount, ambsuh for gap closing, encroached spaces, etc. Pp. Even flIng enemies. There are tons of ways to engage a party as a whole in combat encounters. If your GM is busy only taking down one player and fails at it, while the rest just watches, there is something horribly wrong right there and it has NOTHING to do with combat superiority of only one player.

[Eldariel]

In a nutshell, the way PFS works is that people show up, and then are divided into tables, and each runs their own scenario. If only 4 people show up each week, though, then the OP is probably screwed unless he can unite every other player in refusal to game with this one person.

The other thing is that PFS has its own rules and anything within those rules goes, so you can't really agree on a power level and have everyone design their characters around that goal. I personally run a Wizard in PFS for that very reason; I can tone down as needed but I can keep up with anything anyone might ever bring.

[Arutema]

@first 2... done and done... no change. I believe I posted something similar to this 4 months ago and its still the same thing, with the same guy, though it could be on a different forum.

@ kraken, I am considering this option but due to the fact there is only 3 tables, one is usually core and the other is a different tier, that would mean more often than not I would likely be wasting the .5 hr drive only to turn around. While I can play core, I must have a character in tier to play it AND he has to not be in it.

Core may be your best bet. While not impossible, it is much harder to create such murderdeathkillmachines using only the core rulebook, and from what you've described I guess that he is using non-core stuff in the build.

If the core tables are too high-tier for your current core character, politely ask the event organizer for some low-tier core games. In the less likely event that your core character it too high-level, consider starting a new core character to join the low-tier games.

Possible temporary solution: ask the organizer to schedule more puzzle/social focused scenarios. I very much doubt this guy will be able to murder his way through a wedding (http://paizo.com/products/btpy8u8v?Pathfinder-Society-Scenario-4-09-The-Blakros-Matrimony), funeral (http://paizo.com/products/btpy95eb?Pathfinder-Society-Scenario-5-21-The-Merchants-Wake), or dinner party (http://paizo.com/products/btpy8xkh?Pathfinder-Society-Scenario-5-03-The-Hellknights-Feast).

[paranoidbox]

Nothing good will come from trying to upstage this person. As others have noted, settling it out of game might be your only option.

EDIT: Can't you ask the other players and DM if they want to play a game outside of that society setting? Like, at someone's house, informal-like and all.

[Spore]

I played (and still play) an so-called ubercharger myself. And by GOD are there many ways for the DM to shut down this riding catastrophe. But your DM might be forced to adapt some encounters. We fought in a pit trap with a hollow snake. We regularly fight on areas with low ceilings (you can't ride a horse inside...) and with tiles of difficult terrain (no charging allowed). We fought flying casters, who subsequentially targetted and disintegrated my mount (heck no, I'm not doing a ride check to guide the spell to my PC).

The DM is responsible for designing or adapting a variety of encounters where every PC can shine. No villain would be dumb enough to let Sir Rides-alot the Shining charge in destroying him with his riding cat. Even Skeletor had means to break the line of charge between his throne and the rest of the room. And this was a badly written 80s cartoon. I have played in groups with all-out optimized summoning clerics and there were still things to do for the Rogue/Arcane Archer (CL 4). I can't imagine that even published adventures are that bland that they allow every encounter to be solved by some guy riding in with his mount.

Also check if his mount is even allowed attacks. If it moves double its speed, it is considered using two move actions and thus cannot attack. (Which won't do much when he's using Spirited Charge + Lance but it takes a chunk out of his damage).

[Eldariel]

I played (and still play) an so-called ubercharger myself. And by GOD are there many ways for the DM to shut down this riding catastrophe. But your DM might be forced to adapt some encounters. We fought in a pit trap with a hollow snake. We regularly fight on areas with low ceilings (you can't ride a horse inside...) and with tiles of difficult terrain (no charging allowed). We fought flying casters, who subsequentially targetted and disintegrated my mount (heck no, I'm not doing a ride check to guide the spell to my PC).

The DM is responsible for designing or adapting a variety of encounters where every PC can shine. No villain would be dumb enough to let Sir Rides-alot the Shining charge in destroying him with his riding cat. Even Skeletor had means to break the line of charge between his throne and the rest of the room. And this was a badly written 80s cartoon. I have played in groups with all-out optimized summoning clerics and there were still things to do for the Rogue/Arcane Archer (CL 4). I can't imagine that even published adventures are that bland that they allow every encounter to be solved by some guy riding in with his mount.

This isn't really applicable. Society Scenarios are premade, there's little an individual DM is allowed to change. While yes, there are encounters that are tough to ride down, the difficulty level is quite low and it does solve a majority. It doesn't seem purposeful to try and cherrypick the handful where that doesn't work.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Your only choice is to talk to your PFS organizers. Anything you do in-game is liable to backfire on you instead of dealing with the problem player. Odds are you're not the only person complaining about this guy either, so just let your GM and the organizer know that you haven't enjoyed the past few sessions.

If they can't do anything about the player, then you either have to put up with him or find another group.

I'll point out that part of the problem is how PFS sessions are designed. They have to be completed in one sitting, so they generally avoid anything too complex which might draw out the game. There are exceptions, but really PFS is not intended for high levels of optimization.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

... But Aroden help you if you bring someone to one of the newer scenarios which requires optimization. I would talk to organizers; it's their job to make sure everybody is having fun.

[Necromancy]

Ahh the stereotypical loser kid that insists on playing godly powerful characters to try to feel like a winner.

Option 1, play 5e. Seriously, pathfinder is bad and getting worse.

Option 2, play a conjuration wizard, walls and pits corral melee "accidentally"

Option 3, if the DM can't manage this fool and he always shows up, neither will change. Get the DM to use a higher CR adventure in general to at least provide a challenge.

[Nibbens]

Your only choice is to talk to your PFS organizers. Anything you do in-game is liable to backfire on you instead of dealing with the problem player. Odds are you're not the only person complaining about this guy either, so just let your GM and the organizer know that you haven't enjoyed the past few sessions.

Coming from an "organizational background" group leaders in corporations are generally slow to realize a problem and even slower to act. What gets their attention quickly, however is when #'s don't show up. Because a lack of numbers mean a low rating (in this case, a low enjoyment factor) that's what they will pay attention to.

I suggest using your feet but only once combat happens again. A soon as he monopolizes the combat and everyone is sitting around doing nothing - respectfully get up, say that this just isn't very fun just watching one person perform and ask to watch another table instead of play at yours - because seeing a party cooperating to take down a group of enemies is more entertaining than watching one person.

This should be a slap in the face for the GM and who knows, you might have other players who want to join you watching some other table. Once a non-optimized party is reduced from 4 to 3, adventures become harder to run - and if these guys are running a pre made adventure, it'll be harder to alter the encounter scenarios (not by much, but it's still something).

You getting up and not playing mid session, (and even staying in the room as a added insult) makes your opinion heard to the players, the GM and "unintentionally" makes it harder for the GM, problem player (not by much, but still) but doesn't affect your other players (because they weren't doing much to begin with anyway).

These "unintentional" effects are the results you are after. However, I'm not certain about the organization or how quickly they will respond negatively to your actions. But if you're fed up and have tried all other options, this might be a good end game for you.

[JesusCraig]

I might not be as wise as the people here who are claiming that you should deal with it out of character, but I would suggest that you make a battlefield controller who is focused on peaceful resolutions. If that means you happen to throw down some black tentacles, webs, some rough terrain or even just a monster or 2 in front of the charger by "unfortunate circumstance" then that is too bad. Do that for a full session, see if he likes playing gimped or waiting out most of his turns.

If he gets mad that you keep getting in the way of his murdering, tell him that it's what "your character would do." He can't attack you and you don't care if he leaves the group, so you might as well. It may even give the DM a chance of running an encounter without getting obliterated by the charger.

[ZamielVanWeber]

It might also be good to consider online gaming. There are tons of threads recruiting at any given time, plus I believe that roll 20 had a bunch more. Don't give up on quality DnD/PF

[Dolour]

I might not be as wise as the people here who are claiming that you should deal with it out of character, but I would suggest that you make a battlefield controller who is focused on peaceful resolutions. If that means you happen to throw down some black tentacles, webs, some rough terrain or even just a monster or 2 in front of the charger by "unfortunate circumstance" then that is too bad. Do that for a full session, see if he likes playing gimped or waiting out most of his turns.

If he gets mad that you keep getting in the way of his murdering, tell him that it's what "your character would do." He can't attack you and you don't care if he leaves the group, so you might as well. It may even give the DM a chance of running an encounter without getting obliterated by the charger.
/sign

his mount obviously is the main problem?
deal with it...
damage isnt your only option. :p
whats the things str score? most likely a well placed(lol) entangle will put an end to this.
allso, large size? hello narrow dungeons...

[NightbringerGGZ]

I might not be as wise as the people here who are claiming that you should deal with it out of character, but I would suggest that you make a battlefield controller who is focused on peaceful resolutions. If that means you happen to throw down some black tentacles, webs, some rough terrain or even just a monster or 2 in front of the charger by "unfortunate circumstance" then that is too bad. Do that for a full session, see if he likes playing gimped or waiting out most of his turns.

If he gets mad that you keep getting in the way of his murdering, tell him that it's what "your character would do." He can't attack you and you don't care if he leaves the group, so you might as well. It may even give the DM a chance of running an encounter without getting obliterated by the charger.

This kind of behavior can get you labeled as harassing the uber-charger. Since the player in question has already been spoken too about toning down his character and refused to do so, I don't think we can expect him to handle direct interference well. I also disagree with going to a game with the intention of leaving it mid-stream, that is also disruptive behavior. Since this is PFS talk to the GM and Venture Captain about the problem and get everybody else who isn't having fun to talk to them as well. They might be able to offer the offending a free rebuild to a less disruptive character.

Remember that in PFS this disruptive character can't just tweak his feats, gear or build mid-stream like you could in a home-brew game. Unless he has another character at the same level he's locked into this one for now or would have to start a new character at level 1. If he built a charging-pounce monster he's probably put all of his resources into that build and might not be able to contribute much without that gimmick. I could see why he would be reluctant to change his tactics.

[Segev]

Warn him to stay back and then unleash AoEs. If he doesn't stay back, it's his fault for being in the AoE. Praise him for being willing to tank that while holding off the foes.

Learn Benign Transposition. Swap his place and that of another character after he's charged. This isn't even punishing him: it gives him another chance to charge in. This tactic basically allows your full attack-dependent person to be placed right up in the front lines without having to move there (because the ubercharger moved there first, and he took his place), while allowing the ubercharger to charge again without having to spend a round disengaging and re-positioning.

Use Tumble to pass through the threatened spaces without provoking AoOs; you could even wind up on the far side of the fight and flanking with the ubercharger.

Use Dimension Door to transport the entire party to the far side of the encounter. The ubercharger has gotten their attention; now everybody else is going to hammer them from the rear.

Jump over the fight, if possible.

Consider climbing over the fight, if it's in narrow corridors or has ceilings. Slippers of Spider Climb can be very nice, here. Flying over it is also an option.

Stealth past encounters while he's engaging them, and explore the next room(s).

[TheIronGolem]

I am a stay at home dad. bad gaming is better than no gaming.

A cogent point, arkangel111. Your rebuttal, arkangel111?


I felt like I literally wasted 4 hours of my life to sit in a stuffy room with smelly gamers.

Idunno, arkangel111, looks like arkangel111 has you dead to rights here.

More seriously, though: the reason no gaming is better than bad gaming is that "no gaming" means you have a chance to spend that time doing something else that's fun, whereas "bad gaming" means you don't because you're already occupied with something that's aggravating/frustrating and not fun at all.

Also, you say you already tried talking to this guy by saying "please RP more"? Well that wasn't what you needed him to do, because "roleplay more" and "stop dominating combat scenarios" are two completely different and unrelated things. You need to take another run at talking to him, this time addressing the real problem - ask him to dial it back because you feel like none of you are really getting to play. Don't try to frame it as a roleplaying issue, because it's not (even if he doesn't RP enough, that's a separate matter).

If that doesn't work, bring these concerns to the DM. If that doesn't work, find another group. If your fellow players feel the same as you, you can start your own group. Blackjack, hookers, etc.

In any case, do NOT get into a passive-aggressive war of "see how it feels!". The best possible outcome for that is that you become the jerk who's hogging the game.

[Kudaku]

What are you looking to get out of gaming? If it's the social aspect and getting out of the house then I'd suggest trying to find another game in the area or maybe start your own non-society game. If it's just the gaming aspect then I'd suggest checking out one of the many different venues for playing Pathfinder online. Virtual tabletop websites such as Roll20.net are becoming more and more popular, and vastly increases the player count you can reach out to.

[Segev]

I should note that at least half of my suggestions in the earlier post are way to work WITH his tactics, rather than against him. The more ways you can find to incorporate his build and strategy into your own, the less you'll be sidelined and the more useful the whole party will be. It also will lead to a party that will roflstomp the modules, most likely, if he's realy as optimized as he sounds.

If he starts failing to cooperate and works to deliberately block your tactics which in practice help him by helping others, then you have grounds to go to the group as a whole and point out how he's actively seeking to impede others' fun.


As for stay at home dad who has only a few hours a week away from his kids, if you're not enjoying those few hours, find something else to do with them. If you can be spared for those hours, you can be spared for those hours. It doesn't have to be gaming with the PFS, nor even gaming at all, if you don't have fun with it.

[arkangel111]

Ok, lots of replies which are good but however some people seem to not get the idea or haven't read the full post.

We, meaning more than just me, have talked to the guy. INITIALLY we said to try RPing more, because he enjoyed his character but was destroying the scenario's solo, and we thought this might lead to less smashing and more roleplaying, it didn't. This DID NOT work so we then asked him to tone down his characters power levels, if anything he has got worse, it is not hard to make a character that destroys everything in society, the scenarios are for the most part easy. My problem is that I intentionally create characters that do not hog the show and am thus inexperienced with this concept. Everyone at the PFS games knows that he is like this but he doesn't listen to us. In fact the advice I was given by several of the other players was to take up knitting or find a good game on my phone if I end up at a table with him.

PFS or Pathfinder Society is NOT a home game, the DM has little control over the encounters. In fact has little say in even selecting scenarios, since a) you can only get credit once per scenario as a DM, and b) the Venture Captain usually has plans to get us ready for another event and thus pre-selects many scenarios, or at the least scenario level ranges so that it maximizes participation for the whole group. for instance, he usually wants a table for 1-5, a table for 6-8, and a core table of either 1-3 or 4-6, depending on the week.

While I can and likely will leave the table if I end up with him this week, I honestly do not think he is smart enough to get the point even if I hung a neon sign over my head while doing it. The problem with leaving the table is that other tables will already be starting and may be full before I can get in. Also, I am gaming 25 miles from my house, because there is NO OTHER options. I had a home game but life has got in the way and many have been unable to make it regularly, and I am the DM, and DMing is not the same as playing a character.

Lastly, for those that think its easy to just drop everything and start something new. I am a stay at home dad. this means my wife needs time to unwind too. I often must give up my weekly sessions so she can go out with friends. The ONLY reason I get to PFS on a semi-weekly basis is because the day/time is set aside for it. If I gave up on PFS I likely would go without any form of gaming for a year or more, its happened in the past and its always an uphill battle to get it going again. there are other sessions throughout the week but the day/time is not good for me, since I am also an online student and must do my homework on specific days.

I did hear BFC mentioned a few times and this might work, I had considered an alchemist with smoke bombs but ultimately that will affect the whole party. I am looking for a way to shut him down without it looking completely on purpose, bonus points if the rest of the party can act normally. As I have mentioned, the ubercharger is just the latest build, he has other characters that do similar, such as a zen archer monk that can drop 2-3 targets a round, or a reach monster that obliterates everything that moves. He is very narrow minded and always builds for massive damage. His RPing is usually "thog, kill!" or something similar. He has no issues dropping any unnecessary stat to 7, but since its PFS, most times its not an issue for encounters.

[Nibbens]

This is probably a point you've thought about before, but is that the only gaming store that does PFS in a 25 mile radius around you? Could there be others in another direction?

I know, I know, it probably was your first thought, but I thought I'd ask anyway.

And if that's the only store that does one, maybe you could call around and see if others are willing to get a PFS set up there.

Thirdly, if that's the only gaming store in a 25 mile radius... I'm so sorry... I'd go crazy if I didn't have my options around where I live...

[Crake]

why not look around for private games? Maybe even see if you can establish a new group of friends nearby?

[the_david]

My home group uses roll20. It doesn't matter if one of us is in Spain, and I have simultaneously played with someon in Australia and someon in the USA. Even if you live in the middle of nowhere, as long as you've got internet you can always play. (Without it you'd be screwed though.)

[arkangel111]

Yes it is unfortunately the only one, or at least the only group, they do PFS in multiple locations but different days. I have looked for home games but most have full tables or never respond to craigslist. I am looking into setting up a new location here where I live but store owners are iffy, since roleplayers spend less money than magic or warhammer their tables are reserved for such.

[Segev]

Using massive AoE effects and save/lose effects like Sleep, Color Spray, Fireball, etc. should allow you to "one shot" encounters, yourself, to some degree.

The idea of just stealthing past encounters is still valid, too, especially if he's keeping them distracted by fighting them. Get ahead of him.

[Arutema]

In fact the advice I was given by several of the other players was to take up knitting or find a good game on my phone if I end up at a table with him.

It sounds like he's killing the fun for every other player at the table, which is bad for the event as a whole. Does your local Venture Captain know of this player's disruptive antics?

[Lorddenorstrus]

As someone whos never heard of a PFS.. and has only played in basically per the DM games. I don't quite understand why the guy running your game isn't "allowed" to edit the game slightly so that the idiot going ham can be countered. I mean if anything if you know the scenario you'll be going into and you know the DM isn't allowed to edit it. You can counter the entire scenario and go nuts. That is a rather stupid concept.

[minchazo]

I've got my own once-a-week escape into gaming as well, so I completely understand where you're coming from on not wanting to drop the game. Additionally, I've also got a player who does the same. He's been known to one-shot the boss monster if he's a melee fighter. Or an enchanter with DC20 saves on his Lvl 1 spells. He once was blocked off from the rest of the party by a wall of force and won an entire party-level encounter singlehandedly. Or other such silliness.

My personal munchkin was never able to separate his character from the player, so one passive aggressive things I've done was passing notes between other players when our munchkin is busy killing everything... and never let him see the notes.

I played a sleight-of-hand rogue who was always "donating" items to party members... since he had a "5-fingered discount" on the majority of the GOOD loot. Or really high bluff checks and lie a lot. Obvious lies that the player knows and his character wouldn't. Or write down spells that are cast, force spellcraft checks to see the paper. <-- that last one REALLY pissed off our melee-focused munchkin. :D

Maybe some sort of controller character... fill the room with small summoned animals, cast confusion on the group (enemies and friends), freeze the floor so the enemies can't get near you, entangle, darkness, other non-lethal ability that are beneficial to everyone but Mr. Munchkin. Your bad apple will still get the majority of kills, but you get to do something good and annoy him at the same time.

[MukkTB]

You could quit for a short period of time to signal your displeasure. If it is any kind of business, seeing numbers go down will disturb the owner/manager. Poke your head back in and see what the manager/owner/dm says to you to get you to come back. It might include the phrase, "We got dude to behave."

You could bring a character that you know is of different level to the dude you don't want to play with. If there are different tables I would assume you would be set up with a different group.

You could show up and get a spot. When you find yourself with that dude, leave and go to the local book store or movie theater for your fantasy fix. A customer whose conduct causes people to leave will at least receive some scrutiny.

Better yet, you can cut out the passive aggressive activity and just go straight to the highest authority in the place to complain aggressively. At the very least they might decide to separate you and the dude you don't like. It would make their lives easier. If they don't respect you, stop paying them money for things and giving them your custom. That's the power you hold as the potential customer. They *need* a certain number of customers to keep going. You could drive further to find a game, or even find something good on the internet.

You might think that you can up your own game to compete with the dude. I don't know what dude's motivations and strategies are. This may or may not work. I doubt however that you'll, 'teach him a lesson.' Certainly that lesson won't be to stop optimizing. If you beat him at his own game you'll just motivate him to try harder. Furthermore I'm not sure anything he has done is all that bad. So far as you've said he's not insulting people, causing people problems, stealing more than his share of the loot, or anything really unacceptable. He is just trying really hard. I'm not altogether comfortable with the idea that someone striving to be the best they can without harming anyone else needs to be attacked.

On the other hand if you want to up your own power level to be a strong character there's nothing wrong with that. Pick a tier 1 or 2 class. That would be one of the full spellcasters or the summoner. Read all the guides you can find and pull all the stops. There is so much more to being strong than producing high amounts of damage on a charge. A conjuror of some sort should deliver maximum power. Summon monster X with all the feats and goodies to support it is very hard to beat.



Here is what I would do in your situation. I would let dude do his running screaming from room to room killing everything that opposes him thing. I would put my effort into being really good at something not related to DPS in combat. Engineering could be fun. Stealth, diplomacy or whatever I was into at the time. In combat I would take my turn doing something I got a kick out of. If dude doesn't need any help surely I could work on some other project while he 'cleans up.' Every time it is my turn in combat I certainly have the right to do *something* so that means DM time for my project equal to any other player. Then out of combat I'd work on whatever project I selected and dude's damage output wouldn't bother me at all.

Maybe PFS games don't include any interesting roleplaying opportunities. Maybe there are no challenges beyond needing to hit things really hard. Maybe it is so easy that it can be beat solo by a single optimized homicidal mounted uber charger running ahead of the group. Maybe there is no difficult terrain, tight spaces, capable casters, or other challenges to stop him. If I found that was the case, I wouldn't be interested in playing. That sounds neither fun, nor challenging, nor very interesting when it comes down to it.

[Summerstorm]

Hm, going back to the original small problem. I don't get how a mounted charger character might be problamatic in fights. I mean as far as i imagine it he can't use what he is good at about... maybe 80% of the time?

I mean huge riding animal/monster? Does he take it into buildings, dungeons. What about dense forests. Difficult terrain? If it flies, can it even fit anywhere with outstreched wings (Can it turn easily?)
So i guess most of the time (When not fighting in open terrain) he has his backup weapon out, and has his mount chained in front of wherever you are murdering your way though *g*.

Ah well, depends on the campaign mostly. If there is just LOADS of open combat he had luck with the charcter generation... unfortunate.

Reminds me of when i build a large character for melee... totally idiotic. My supreme reach and power was nothing compared to using too much space, squeezing all the time, having trouble to move into position and getting hit by pretty much every AOE-Attacks. Hell, at one point in the module, i couldn't get through (the only way was a small crack, where medium characters could squeeze through. The GM allowed me to do it too since i was "small-large - Minotaur), but rules-wise, i only could have left the group at that point.

Same here. NOBODY has no faults (Only Schrödingers Wizard can do it all)

[Spore]

Hm, going back to the original small problem. I don't get how a mounted charger character might be problamatic in fights.

He explained it already. Simple fights on open fields or in large rooms combined with a DM not allowed to alter the ramifications of the published books much if at all. Which seriously feels kind of stupid.

Just to repeat myself: If an BBEG has any idea how to be evil, his fortress, dungeon or whatever is surveilled and his guards will bring him information that there is a huge guy riding what can only be a large cat flailing around a 7 foot pole at his minions. Said BBEG will give his minion a clout and proceed how his minions are incapable of stopping a knight in small hallways.

It's not within the rules of the prepublished book. But a BBEG not reacting to the strengths of the party is like a MMO raid boss who diligently waits for 25 guys just to enter his aggro range already.

[goto124]

...I recommand online gaming. Easy to fit into your limited time.

You can even try an MMO :smalltongue:

[GilesTheCleric]

What are the consequences of dying in PFS? Is your character gone forever if you haven't gotten to the point of rez spells? If so, then just let him die. Eventually, he'll run out of characters that are the appropriate level for your game, and you'll be able to play in peace. Tell the other players at your game to just let him run at the encounters by himself, then don't help him or give him any healing. If you need to look like you're not hurting him, then spend all of each combat just buffing each other (but not him). Increase your carried capacity so that you're slowed, then move much more slowly to get to encounters or to foes.

If you're looking for a game, it doesn't sound like you've tried meetups.com yet; it's another avenue that's a bit less sketchy than craigslist. Alternatively, if you have enough players show up to the game he's in (3 others), then you could all decide to not play PFS, and then that group won't have enough people to play, but the table will have been reserved for DnD. Just play your own private game at the table, but don't invite him.

[bjoern]

I would use BFC spells to "keep the enemy away from us" which would also prevent him from getting to the enemy.

now you just have to win initiative so you can go first.

[Segev]

I have to agree that it sounds like he's not quite doing anything "wrong" other than being a powergamer and, as a consequence, hogging the spotlight. You have three real options that have a chance of working:

1) Play a character at a higher optimization level not to "show him up" or "teach him a lesson" (it won't work), but to either exploit his tactics to make yours better, or to simply play on the "same level."

2) Talk to the people in charge, as somebody else suggested, and ask them to make sure you never have to be at a table with him. Explain why.

3) Talk to the other players and ask them if they're willing to walk out rather than have their time wasted by this guy. Have this happen even once, and certainly twice, and the PFS judges will HAVE to do something.



Finally, I know you've said you talked to him about it. What have you actually said to him? I had originally thought you'd flat-out explained the problem, but when others have mentioned that all you say you've done is asked him to "roleplay more," your replies haven't been explicitly, "I also talked to him about how he's hogging the spotlight and not letting anybody else do anything."

It may be that you need to be 100% blunt and 200% simple in what you tell him. Have you actually told him, "The problem is that your characters power level and play style is such that not only are the rest of our PCs not necessary, but you actually get in the way of us even trying to participate, let alone contribute?"

[Hiro Quester]

Finally, I know you've said you talked to him about it. What have you actually said to him? I had originally thought you'd flat-out explained the problem, but when others have mentioned that all you say you've done is asked him to "roleplay more," your replies haven't been explicitly, "I also talked to him about how he's hogging the spotlight and not letting anybody else do anything."

It may be that you need to be 100% blunt and 200% simple in what you tell him. Have you actually told him, "The problem is that your characters power level and play style is such that not only are the rest of our PCs not necessary, but you actually get in the way of us even trying to participate, let alone contribute?"

This. Be very direct and clear.

But try to be friendly. Start with something positive: "We really appreciate it when you... But do you think you could please also..."

Explain directly how his play style affects others' enjoyment of the game, by preventing them from contributing. Ask him to sometimes hang back and contribute in other ways.

Personally, my DM once had to have that talk with me. I had always approached an encounter with an attitude of "what can I do in this situation that would be most effective at helping us win the encounter?"

Sometimes I'm sure I helped finish an encounter quickly, with minimal risk to other party members. But those party members wanted the risk, the challenge, the chance to prove the worth of their character build. Winning the encounter quickly interfered with their fun.

I thought I was helping. Maybe this player does too.

DM explaining this kind of thing helped me change my attitude to "how can I help everyone here have the most fun, contributing what they do best to winning the encounter?"

It helped me challenge myself to sometimes find some other ways to contribute to the team effort, and let the others try what they can do well. e.g. help the rogue flank, guard the wizard and stop anyone from interfering with his casting the game-changing spell, etc.

[Drork]

So if you are in a GM position just change the encounter. You "cant" because of rules F the rules if people take issue with you explain the situation say it is for the betterment of the table. If they can not understand you are back in the position you where before playing a game you didnt like. Honestly the OP player will likely rise to the challenge making things more exciting for everyone because they will not be able to do everything themselves.

As a player.
Join him in his overpower builds ask him about his archer class and see if that works for you. See watch how he reacts when you take out three foes in one round like he did. If you really want to poke him try to always snipe his killing blows.

Two Ignore his requests in combat. If you roll initiative get in the way of his charge. Do things reckless if your character dies have you really lost much compared to your character not doing anything. When you say everyone had to delay for him. Why didnt someone just charge in rather than follow the direction. Remember you are not on the battle field yourself go full ham. Make the weakest character you can and charge headlong into the most risky situations. Hell you might even make an exciting encounter for everyone else at the table trying to save you. If more people at the table see you having fun in the side of the adventure others will likely follow what you are doing and the power gamer will likely get frustrated at these Noobs. When I say going full ham dont be scared to bring a commoner character. Oh be sure to have a lovingly hand crafted back story to each one this is for the death speech or for other players to present at the funeral. Remember the GM and adventure presents the gaming space. Players create the game and fun.

[Segev]

Another idea which could be good natured fun or mean-spirited, depending on the group and how this guy would take it...

Play a Bard. Chronicle the adventure. But claim ALL the credit for yourself. Recast events so you're the hero. Diminish, ignore, or steal his deeds. Do this on-screen, and especially back at base. This is PF Society, so you're all nominally members of the eponymous society. Your deeds as adventurers are your credit and reputation. Make your vainglorious Bard into a regular Gilderoy Lockhart, but make sure he's likable to those who are HEARING his tales. Give credit to just enough of the PCs that they'll back your version of events. Make the biggest victim of your glory-stealing out to be a buffoon that you're doing your best in your tales to make look...not as bad as he was. When he complains, have quips and witticisms ready. You're not out to tear him down, honest; but if he tries to steal credit he doesn't (according to your version of events) deserve, you'll have to "set the record straight" to his detriment.

Do this during the fights, even. Tell the tale of what happened right afterwards, carefully reworked and reworded. Congratulate people on their deeds and invite them to congratulate you on yours/your version of them.

In other words, if all he wants is to have fun smashing things, let him, and make your own fun. If this stings him...then use it as an opener to the conversation about how he's doing the same thing to the rest of the party by his action-hogging.


But first, TALK To him, in plain terms. Second, try to play WITH him, rather than AGAINST him. This is just one way to approach it if his goal has little to do with reputation.

[Necromancy]

Another idea which could be good natured fun or mean-spirited, depending on the group and how this guy would take it...

Play a Bard. Chronicle the adventure. But claim ALL the credit for yourself. Recast events so you're the hero. Diminish, ignore, or steal his deeds. Do this on-screen, and especially back at base. This is PF Society, so you're all nominally members of the eponymous society. Your deeds as adventurers are your credit and reputation. Make your vainglorious Bard into a regular Gilderoy Lockhart, but make sure he's likable to those who are HEARING his tales. Give credit to just enough of the PCs that they'll back your version of events. Make the biggest victim of your glory-stealing out to be a buffoon that you're doing your best in your tales to make look...not as bad as he was. When he complains, have quips and witticisms ready. You're not out to tear him down, honest; but if he tries to steal credit he doesn't (according to your version of events) deserve, you'll have to "set the record straight" to his detriment.

Do this during the fights, even. Tell the tale of what happened right afterwards, carefully reworked and reworded. Congratulate people on their deeds and invite them to congratulate you on yours/your version of them

I like it. Take it farther.

If there's one thing that a power gamer is truly vulnerable to, it's being kicked in the coinpurse.

Specialize in appraise, diplomacy, bluff etc

Follow him ahead of the party, take all the good loot. Demand your fair share of exp and remaining loot. Go to town and recount your heroic deeds, show off your new treasures, and persuade townsfolk to reward you as well. Buy off other party members with treasure and watch the power gamer end up as a 12th level with a +1 weapon.

[TrollCapAmerica]

If these pre-built scenerios are so bad an idiot playing damage dealing martials can shut down everything your honestly better off DMing yourself

There are first level spells that will turn Mongo into a Magicarp without even any real though or effort

Take the guys that arent him and run your own game.Hell you could even let the smelly guy in then watch him cry tears of blood when his mount gets dominated and chucks him into the mud

[Segev]

Revenge-DMing is not just bad form, it is bad for your own ultimate enjoyment. It wrecks games, makes people distrust each other, and is just not a good plan.

[RndmNumGen]

Find your nearest venture officer (http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/about/regionalCoordinators) and speak with them.

Society has systems in place specifically to avoid this kind of situation. If you have talked to the store coordinator and they are unwilling/unable to take action, or unsure of what to do, go to the next person above them. Any good Venture Lieutenant should be able to impose a solution which makes everyone happy. Worst case scenario, the problem player can be banned from the store. It is rare, but it has happened before.

If on the off-chance your Venture Lieutenant/Venture Captain cannot solve the issue, bring it up with Mike Brock. He's the head of Pathfinder Society Organized Play, and does not tolerate this kind of behavior. He wants to make PFS a fun and welcoming environment for everyone.

Ultimately, this is a Society problem(not a Pathfinder problem) and should be dealt with by a Society solution. Creating a 'retaliatory' character to shut down this player will only weaken your position, as it paints you as a problem player as well. That is not a situation you want to be in.

[Hrugner]

So I want a build that goes first and kills anything it encounters. Ideas? I would prefer not to make a carbon copy of his character, I just want to show him what its like when anyone else plays at the table with him. He does this every game and with a variety of characters but this latest one was by far the worst... I felt like I literally wasted 4 hours of my life to sit in a stuffy room with smelly gamers.


I don't know if I could help with this sort of thing without knowing the exact level of the character you can make and want to shut down.

Regardless, I think it may be a better response to make something like an inquisitor, hunter or cavalier who has access to more freely usable teamwork feats. Grabbing coordinated charge and spreading that to all players so it's a team bum rush, paired opportunist would get you in on the action, cavalry formation would let you stand where his mount needs to be. There's a few options.

However, if you just want to make the player feel bad, ditch him in the dungeon, let him do his own thing and go somewhere else. Alternatively, tell the DM your characters follow him from room to room looting everything with no intent on sharing; then you and your new mates can all go grab a coffee while he wins you some loot and levels you up.

[Drork]

I forgot to comment in my first post the best way its to engage the player on their level. Talking to them about building a "broken" character could be an interesting thing for him. Once you have engaged the player you can help guide the player to a place where there is more fun for everyone. If you compete against him it is highly probably it will become a power arms race. If you let him have input in the other side of the power arms race its a race against himself he will find this a lot less enjoyable.

The key to true manipulation is to convince them that what you want is actually something they want.