Looking for evil equivalents of Planetar/Solar Angels

[Pippin]

Hi playground,

I'm looking for an evil creature that casts divine spells as 13th-level clerics (17th is always better of course). The fewer HD, the better.

I suppose I could always use greater planar binding on a Planetar, then change its alignment, then make it learn evil spells, but I might as well get all this done at once.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Take a look here: Monsters with innate spellcasting (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=auk6sjs20btq6u4bu43lurqun3&topic=1582)

[Pippin]

Take a look here: Monsters with innate spellcasting (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=auk6sjs20btq6u4bu43lurqun3&topic=1582)
Gray Linnorm it is!

Thank you, that list is both interesting and very helpful.

[Thurbane]

Lilitu (with some added Cleric levels/PrC) would be more like an anti-angel...

[the_david]

Ooh, Lilitus are fun! I'd second the prestige class. They do cast as clerics, except that they use charisma instead of wisdom and they can't spontaneously cast inflict spells. I'd avoid the hassle of stacking cleric spellcaster levels with not-exactly-spellcaster levels and use a prestige class instead.

[Thurbane]

Ooh, Lilitus are fun! I'd second the prestige class. They do cast as clerics, except that they use charisma instead of wisdom and they can't spontaneously cast inflict spells. I'd avoid the hassle of stacking cleric spellcaster levels with not-exactly-spellcaster levels and use a prestige class instead.

There is some debate as to whether a PrC can advance innate spellcasting, without at least one level of an actual class to work with.

[Bad Wolf]

I'm curious, what is this for?

[Crake]

There is some debate as to whether a PrC can advance innate spellcasting, without at least one level of an actual class to work with.


Ooh, Lilitus are fun! I'd second the prestige class. They do cast as clerics, except that they use charisma instead of wisdom and they can't spontaneously cast inflict spells. I'd avoid the hassle of stacking cleric spellcaster levels with not-exactly-spellcaster levels and use a prestige class instead.

if you're the DM, do either of these matter at all really?

[Thurbane]

if you're the DM, do either of these matter at all really?

Well, some people (myself included to a large degree) like to run as close to RAW as possible when DMing. YMMV.

[Pippin]

I'm curious, what is this for?
Arbitrarily high abilities via power leech (BoVD). To achieve that, I needed two people able to cast (greater) consumptive field (for arbitrarily high levels, in order to extend the duration of power leech).

Once the two clerics reached ability scores you deem sufficient, extract gift grants you an arbitrarily high, permanent enhancement bonus. I would make a thread about it but I'm not sure these things are considered exciting anymore, besides most ideas aren't even mine. I just put everything together.

[Jack_Simth]

Arbitrarily high abilities via power leech (BoVD). To achieve that, I needed two people able to cast (greater) consumptive field (for arbitrarily high levels, in order to extend the duration of power leech).

Once the two clerics reached ability scores you deem sufficient, extract gift grants you an arbitrarily high, permanent enhancement bonus. I would make a thread about it but I'm not sure these things are considered exciting anymore, besides most ideas aren't even mine. I just put everything together.
Problems with using Extract Gift that way:
1) Dispellable. As high as you might pump your caster level, it doesn't matter, as it's specifiying "level" not "caster level", so you're stuck at whatever level you are... and BBEG's are usually higher level than the party.
2) Until you get into Epic pricing, it's more expensive (both in terms of XP and GP) to cast than it is to craft the associated item.

Yes, there's ways around these problems... but it's largely irrelevant, as it's a rare DM that'd permit such things.

[Pippin]

That was more of a mental exercise, though. I don't actually plan to play a character with infinite abilities. I guess I just wanted to be even more convinced that wizards are the best. :smallcool:

As you said, there are ways to mitigate the problems.

By the way 1. isn't even a problem. EG doesn't change how dispel magic works, it just adds another condition for it to be successful. Well that's how I read it.

[RedMage125]

I had this issue once, years ago.

Friend ran an Evil game, and Savage Species was new (so, right before the 3.5e transition occured). We had in the party, an incubus (me), a doppleganger assassin, and since were hoping for a "healer", one player played a trumpet archon who was fallen. By the rules, he lost his magic trumpet/sword when he became evil, but he still got his spellcasting.

So...Fallen Angel should work, as well.