[3.5] Items for a halfling knife thrower

[macdaddy]

I am trying to figure out what would be good items for a halfling thower (rogue, Swahsbuckler, whisperknife, master thrower)

There are some questions/issues regarding returning weapons and the ability to catch them.

1. Glove of Taarnahm the Vigilant - makes all thrown weapons have the returning ability
This would allow me to have a variety of dagger types (adamantium, cold iron, magic, etc) and be able to throw them using quick draw. However, there seems to be some dispute as to whether or not I would be able to catch more than 2 coming back per round....

2. A Modified Gauntlet of Infinite Javelins (Daggers) - +1 daggers of force
This would allow me to throw as many daggers as I want in a round. Because they are "force" weapons, they would bypass all DR(right?).

Which of these would be better, and would either of them be unbalanced? Bypassing all DR might seem so.

[Forrestfire]

The glove of endless javelins makes weapons out of force, but they're not Force, which is a +2 equivalent ability that can only be applied to projectile weapons. They are affected by DR normally.

[gorfnab]

The modified Gloves of Endless Javelins (MIC p194) is a nice option for throwing based builds. The Gauntlet of Infinite Blades (MIC p101), however sucks since it uses up a swift action which means only one dagger per round. The Gloves are a free action to use which is the best option for builds that throw multiple weapons.

Here is another option to consider: Modified Quiver of Anariel. Change quiver to bandoleer and arrow to dagger.


Quiver of Anariel:Quivers of Anariel appear to be typical arrow containers capable of holding a score of arrows. However, the quivers automatically replenish themselves with standard or magical arrows, such that they are always full. Some quivers also create arrows made of special materials, such as adamantine, cold iron, or alchemical silver.

Once an arrow it taken from the quiver, it must be used within 1 round or it vanishes.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, magic weapon, minor creation; Price 28,000 gp (standard arrows), 29,000 gp (masterwork arrows), 32,000 gp (+1 arrows), 44,000 gp (+2 arrows), 64,000 gp (+3 arrows), 92,000 gp (+4 arrows), 128,000 gp (+5 arrows); Add an additional +6,000 gp for adamantine arrows, +4,005 gp for cold iron arrows, or +200 gp for alchemical silver arrows; Weight 1 lb.
Thankfully someone saved the article here (http://web.archive.org/web/20070401150041/http:/ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=fr_lonedrowstats) containing the quiver stats, since WOTC decided to delete the original posting.

[Darrin]

1. Glove of Taarnahm the Vigilant - makes all thrown weapons have the returning ability
This would allow me to have a variety of dagger types (adamantium, cold iron, magic, etc) and be able to throw them using quick draw. However, there seems to be some dispute as to whether or not I would be able to catch more than 2 coming back per round....


Yeah, kinda tricky if you only have two hands. You can add more hands (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15034740&postcount=11), if need be. Glove of the Master Strategist (Ghostwalk) or Kimono of Storing (Oriental Adventures) might help. Or you could try something with Sleight of Hand... for example, once a dagger comes back, you could hide it on your person as a free action with a -20 modifier... however, the hiding automatically happens, the check is just to see if anyone Spots where you hid it. Drawing a hidden weapon afterwards is also problematic, as it's either a standard action (normally) or a move action (with Quickdraw). Or you could perhaps "palm" the dagger, maybe returning it to it's sheath as a DC 40 check (free action). The Sleight of Hand rules are a bit borked.

Do you have room for Bloodstorm Blade (Tome of Battle) in your build? Much more efficient, only needs one dagger, and it automatically returns to your hand after every attack, so you can keep throwing the same one (also saves you money on your Golf Bag Full of Daggers).



2. A Modified Gauntlet of Infinite Javelins (Daggers) - +1 daggers of force
This would allow me to throw as many daggers as I want in a round. Because they are "force" weapons, they would bypass all DR(right?).


In 3.5, [force] is not actually an energy type, so it doesn't automatically bypass DR by RAW. *Most* [force] effects do bypass DR, but they do so because almost all [force] effects are the result of casting a spell, and thus they count as spell effects. There are three examples in 3.5 of force effects that are not spell effects and are still affected by DR: Gloves of Endless Javelins, Hank's Energy Bow, and the Crystal Helm soulmeld bound to your crown chakra.

However, most people do not stick to strict RAW on [force] effects, and generally handwave them as bypassing DR out of convenience. Consult your DM to see if he/she is so inclined.

[AvatarVecna]

If you're in 3.5, I have bad news for you: thrown weapon combat takes forever to get decent, and you needs tons of feats along the way. The weapon property "returning" only returns the item at the beginning of your next turn, which means getting iteratives/TWF/Rapid Shot means you need multiple weapons; having multiple weapons enchanted to a reasonable level is ridiculously expensive. Your other option is investing 4 levels in Bloodstorm Blade (which itself requires a couple of feats you were gonna get anyway and either a level of Warblade or another feat), which gets you auto-return weapons that allows for iteratives, but this delays your Master Thrower progression, which means thrown weapon tricks come online later. If you're starting at mid-high levels (like 13 or something) this isn't much of a problem, but if you're intending to play the character from level 1, you're gonna have a bad time.

If you're in Pathfinder, I have great news: there's a decent variety of thrown weapon-based archetypes, and there's a magic item called the Blinkback Belt (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/a-b/belt-blink-back) that's both more capable than and requires less investment than Bloodstorm Blade 4. Someday, I'm gonna play a 3.P PBP game where I build a Master Thrower/Iaijutsu Master who throws a storm of katanas.

[macdaddy]

I considered the blinkback belt, but it seemed too good for the price of 5K. You could have just one dagger on it with the quick draw feat and fire off all your attacks (excluding volley attacks) because the dagger teleports back after resolving the attack. With just 2 daggers, you could easily do 2 daggers from each hand in a volley throw and get off 8-16 throws depending on feats/abilities and rule interpretations

I think a modified Gloves on endless "daggers" would be the optimal choice. You can have 2 returning daggers and fill up the other attack slots with free action-ed daggers from the gloves.

I liked the Quiver of Anariel, but the cost on it just seemed incredibly out of whack with the gloves and gauntlets. 20 adamantine arrows cost 61gp. The quiver adamantine ability costs 6000 gp. So it charges you for ~2000 arrows... 50 +1 arrows costs 2350. That capability costs 32,000 which is enough for ~680 such arrows. There just doesn't seem much rhyme or reason behind the costs....

I like the concept of the charges on the gauntlets of infinite blades, and thought perhaps:
1. As a free action, it produces +1 daggers
2. 5 charges per day that can be used for
a. 1 charge - produces +1 alloy daggers (adamantine, silver, cold iron, etc) for 1 minute
b. 1 charge - produces +3 daggers for 1 minute
c. 3 charges - produces a single +3 dagger of seeking for 1 minute. If thrown, the gauntlet can regenerate this dagger at the start of the next round
d. 5 charges - produces a single +3 bane dagger for 1 minute. If thrown, the gauntlet can regenerate this dagger at the start of the next round.

The daggers once drawn last for 1 minute and then disappear. If the dagger leaves the owners hand, they disappear at the end of that round.

Make the cost 15K