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View Full Version : Tactical Movement in D&D (Special Ops Elves)



Olethros
2007-04-17, 12:02 PM
Inspiered by a post in another thread,

Sadly, the initiative rules in D&D don't lend themselves to group tactics all that well. Unless everyone goes on the same initiative, OR everyone has Spring Attack, you can't help but break up any formation that you're trying to use. It's always seemed more of a 'insane free-for-all' than an orderly group activity to me...


My responce to Pocket lint is the use of delaying, holding and occassionaly skipping your action for a round can all result in altering the initiative order to a more tactically benificial one.

My question to the group is, "Can group tactics, outside of buffing, be used effectivly and regularly in a D&d game?" What tactics have you used? Problem run into? Solutions to general problems? etc.

Dausuul
2007-04-17, 12:10 PM
Inspiered by a post in another thread,


My responce to Pocket lint is the use of delaying, holding and occassionaly skipping your action for a round can all result in altering the initiative order to a more tactically benificial one.

My question to the group is, "Can group tactics, outside of buffing, be used effectivly and regularly in a D&d game?" What tactics have you used? Problem run into? Solutions to general problems? etc.

Group tactics? Absolutely. Haven't you ever seen a fighter flank a monster so the rogue could sneak attack it? Wizards use battlefield control to break up the enemy so the other characters can take them down one by one. Clerics heal characters who are close to going down. Smart characters five-foot step out of the way so their allies can charge. Heavy melee types tank for the archers and the spellslingers. Et cetera.

D&D doesn't lend itself to rigid formation fighting, true, but D&D battles are typically fought at the skirmish level anyway.

FreeRangeOyster
2007-04-17, 06:25 PM
I've always liked using enforced simultaniety whenever possible -- ie all the players tell me what they will do, and initiative only comes up if the order affects the outcome. I don't use it all the time, but it might help with your scenario.

asqwasqw
2007-04-17, 06:48 PM
Hmm, you can flank, surround the enemy, protect your weak spots, there are lot of ways to work together. There is always the classic: I hold the choke point while you shoot arrows over my head sort of thing.

SpiderBrigade
2007-04-17, 07:00 PM
Also important to consider how many tactics there are in D&D that will even benefit that much from the ability to act in a specific, rigid order. As has been mentioned, it's possible to set up a situation where the group can act in the order they choose - but why would they want to?

Many of the rigid-formation tactics are going to be defensive (pike wall etc) and can be modeled with readied actions and attacks of opportunity. There will be problems with a mass-formation charge, but A) you don't get any mechanical benefit from charging together B) if, again, the Delay action is used, the entire group CAN charge on the same initiative count. This WILL allow you to do more complex tricks like pincer movements or surrounding a single enemy.

Indon
2007-04-17, 07:52 PM
Hey, if you delay on a surprise round, do you automatically go first the next round?

Matthew
2007-04-17, 08:39 PM
Good question. I would think the answer is yes.

Group fighting and formation fighting work fine in D&D, but they usually are not the province of the Player Characters.

Desaril
2007-04-17, 09:51 PM
I agree with Matthew that the DM can make great use of group tactics, but it's usually harder for players. The DM always coordinates the enemy attacks for maximum effect.

In my own group, I've suggested that the PCs all delay until the same initiative count, so we can act together. Our GM also allows "short orders" out of turn, so we can communicate.

Dausuul
2007-04-18, 01:10 AM
Hey, if you delay on a surprise round, do you automatically go first the next round?

By RAW, it appears that you do. Of course, this means in an ambush, everyone should delay until Initiative 5000 of the first round, so they get a full round's worth of actions instead of just a standard action.

SpiderBrigade
2007-04-18, 07:04 AM
By RAW, it appears that you do. Of course, this means in an ambush, everyone should delay until Initiative 5000 of the first round, so they get a full round's worth of actions instead of just a standard action.Well, but if they have a reasonably high initiative, they might have a shot at getting the surprise round, and THEN going first in the first regular round as well. But if you don't want to toss the dice, then yes, your idea is great. Definitely something for bandits to think about.