Optimization Iron Chef Optimisation Challenge in the Playground LXVIII [Archive]

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Heliomance

2015-04-30, 03:38 AM

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to Iron Chef LXV. Here in Optimisation Colosseum, contestants will endeavor to create an optimized and flavorful character using a specified D&D3.5 prestige class as a "Secret Ingredient".

Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

Menu: The "special ingredient" can be drawn from any legal source. Originally, the plan was to mostly use Core and Completes, but that was 60 threads ago, and we've started running out of interesting classes to use if we restrict ourselves to those.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we have generally allowed other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt or Generic Classes are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em. Please refrain from using Taint unless it's necessary for the Secret Ingredient.
NB: Official Errata and 3.5 updates to 3.0 content are considered valid regardless of whether their sources would otherwise be legal. This includes the 3.5 update of Oriental Adventures given in Dragon Magazine, and the 3.5 updates of Dragonlance Campaign Setting content given in later third party Dragonlance books.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, May 17th, 2015 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Heliomance. Please put the name of your build in the subject line of your PM. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 09:59 GMT on Sunday, May 31st, 2015 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated on a scale from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is considered in poor taste, and judges are asked to take a dim view of this option, taking it into account while grading. Other things that will cause penalties here are excessive multi-classing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.Please note the following change: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may result in a penalty to Elegance at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not. In that same vein, drawing solely from the Core 3 (and the d20 SRD) should not be punished for lacking Originality.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

Code immediately below (spoiler).

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

2nd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

3rd
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

4th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

5th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

6th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

7th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

8th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

9th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

10th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

11th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

12th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

13th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

14th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

15th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

16th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

17th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

18th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

19th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

20th
New Class Level
+x
+x
+x
+x
Skills
Feats
New Class Abilities

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

Code immediately below (spoiler)Spells per Day/Spells Known
Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

9th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

10th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

12th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

13th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

14th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

15th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

16th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

17th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

18th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

19th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

20th
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners. If your entry includes a prestige class or ACF that grants Leadership or a Leadership-like ability as a bonus feat, the feat should be ignored and is not eligible to be traded away for another feat or ACF through any means.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!

This month's Secret Ingredient is:
Song and Silence's Fang of Lolth!
We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM. If there are no votes, Honourable Mention will go to the chairwoman's favourite build.

Allez, optimiser!

The Builds

Past Competitions

Iron Chef I: Entropomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142470)
Iron Chef II: Psibond Agent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146583)
Iron Chef III: Cancer Mage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148584)
Iron Chef IV: Stonelord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150595)
Iron Chef V: War Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152543)
Iron Chef VI: Master of Masks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156876)
Iron Chef VII: Green Star Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158633)
Iron Chef VIII: Pyrokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160266)
Iron Chef IX: Animal Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162702)
Iron Chef X: Mythic Exemplar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164381)
Iron Chef XI: Blade Bravo (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166539)
Iron Chef XII: War Mind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=9426386)
Iron Chef XIII: Vigilante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172233)
Iron Chef XIV: Seeker of the Song (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174434)
Iron Chef XV: Drunken Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176049)
Iron Chef XVI: Assassin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178202)
Iron Chef XVII: Ardent Dilettante (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182492)
Iron Chef XVIII: Unseelie Dark Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186097)
Iron Chef XIX: Dread Pirate (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=190607)
Iron Chef XX: Incandescent Champion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10976416)
Iron Chef XXI: Ghostwalker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198921)
Iron Chef XXII: Dervish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206576)
Iron Chef XXIII: Divine Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=210071)
Iron Chef XXIV: Tactical Soldier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214198)
Iron Chef XXV: Scion of Tem-Et-Nu (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217441)
Iron Chef XXVI: Shadowdancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220956)
Iron Chef XXVII: Mindbender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224008)
Iron Chef XXVIII: Cryokineticist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227304)
Iron Chef XXIX: Consecrated Harrier (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229688)
Iron Chef XXX: Initiate of Pistis Sophia (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346)
Iron Chef XXXI: Shadow Sentinel (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=236908)
Iron Chef XXXII: Temple Raider of Olidammara (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=239786)
Iron Chef XXXIII: Drow Judicator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=243052)
Iron Chef XXXIV: Dragon Disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246072)
Iron Chef XXXV: Death Delver (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249542)
Iron Chef XXXVI: Acolyte of the Skin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252923)
Iron Chef XXXVII: Justiciar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13865473)
Iron Chef XXXVIII: Hand of the Winged Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255215)
Iron Chef XXXIX: Renegade Mastermaker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260333)
Iron Chef XL: Nightsong Infiltrator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=263173)
Iron Chef XLI: Geomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266709)
Iron Chef XLII: Shadowblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=270196)
Iron Chef XLIII: Bladesinger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=274122)
Iron Chef XLIV: Urban Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279116)
Iron Chef XLV: Talon of Tiamat (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15216595)
Iron Chef XLVI: Cipher Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=287314)
Iron Chef XLVII: Cold Iron Warrior (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=291294)
Iron Chef XLVIII: Shadow Sun Ninja (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=297327)
Iron Chef XLIX: Thrall to Orcus (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302487)
Iron Chef L: Corrupt Avenger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307823)
Iron Chef LI: Black Flame Zealot (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312773)
Iron Chef LII: Anointed Knight (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317934)
Iron Chef LIII: Zerth Cenobite (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325164)
Iron Chef LIV: Osteomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330890)
Iron Chef LV: Mountebank (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?336373-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LV)
Iron Chef LVI: Dwarven Defender (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?342807-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVI)
Iron Chef LVII: Darkrunner (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?349040-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVII)
Iron Chef LVIII: Spellsword (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?357412-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LVIII)
Iron Chef LIX: Fleet Runner of Ehlonna (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?364667-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LIX)
Iron Chef LX: Lasher (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?371835-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LX(II): Acolyte of the Ego (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?372145-Iron-Chef-Optimization-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LX)
Iron Chef LXII: Dungeon Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?376810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXII)
Iron Cheff LXIII: WItchborn Binder (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?382632-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIII)
Iron Chef LXIV: Slime Lord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387166-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXIV)
Iron Chef LXV: Thunder Guide (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?394981-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXV)
Iron Chef LXVI: Dwarven Chanter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400810-Iron-Chef-Optimisation-Challenge-in-the-Playground-LXVI)
Irogn Chef LXVII: Gnome Giant Slayer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?406613-Irogn-Chef-Optimisatiogn-Challegnge-ign-the-Playgrougnd-LXVII)

Heliomance

2015-04-30, 03:40 AM

FAQ:
What's this even about? I'm glad you asked, actually... (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15415117&postcount=1)

Is Dragon Compendium Allowed? Yes (as well as its Errata), but individual issues of Dragon Magazine are not.

What about 3.0 materials? 3.0 materials, whether online or in printed form, are allowed unless they've been officially updated to a 3.5 edition.

Are Dragonlance, Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, or Kingdoms of Kalamar allowable sources? The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is allowed, but the subsequent books for Dragonlance are considered 3rd party, and are therefore not eligible, despite the "WotC approved" status of those books. The same holds for Oriental Adventures (1st party) and the subsequent Rokugan books (3rd party). Materials from Ravenloft, Planescape, Dark Sun, and Kingdoms of Kalamar are considered 3rd party for purposes of this contest, and are therefore not allowed.

What about online sources in general? If the online source is a) published by WotC, and b) not replaced by an updated version at a later time, it is eligible. Use it, link it.

Where's the line drawn with "acceptable/unacceptable" for Unearthed Arcana? This will likely vary a bit from Chairman to Chairman. Item Familiars and Gestalt have always been verboten, since before IC migrated to GitP; don't expect that to change. Flaws have similarly always been noted as warranting a deduction; while I am Chairman, I'm extending that to Traits, though they warrant 1/2 the penalty in Elegance that a Flaw would because they're roughly 1/2 as useful. Alternate spell systems, alternate skill systems and alternate crafting rules all create an uneven playing field, and as such, will be disallowed for as long as I am Chairman. Bloodlines and the Retraining options presented in the PHB2 are ripe for abuse, and will be strongly discouraged as long as I am Chairman. Note that judges are allowed to look askance at any use of Unearthed Arcana not specifically mentioned above, at their discretion, and otherwise penalize Elegance according to their preference.

What, exactly, does the ban on Leadership mean? As folks have started to try to work around the edges of this one, I'm forced to spell it out more plainly. No Leadership, Draconic Cohort, or Feats that grant a similar ability are allowed EXCEPT Wild Cohort while Heliomance is chairman. Any PrC you choose with Leadership or a Leadership-analog has that ability entirely ignored for this contest, as it may neither be used nor traded away via any means whatsoever.

What's the minimum score in a category? Assuming an entry is legal, the minimum score in any category is 1. If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. Failing to meet a special requirements for a prestige class does not merit a 0, but may qualify for a penalty, at the judge's discretion. Because this contest focuses on Player Characters, an entry that is not technically allowed for a PC, but is viable as an NPC, counts as a legal entry, but may receive a minimum score at the judges' discretion.

Creatures and templates with no listed LA are playable, right? No. No listed LA is equivalent to LA: -. It is not suitable for PCs. If you use it, expect judges to look extremely disfavourably on it.

Heliomance

2015-04-30, 03:41 AM

Please note there have been a couple of small changes to the contest rules, in Kitchen and Cooking Time. Have fun, and good luck!

Hiro Quester

2015-04-30, 03:57 AM

Ooohhh. Becoming all spidery and growing two sets of extra limbs. I'm very curious what y'all do with that.

I know what I'd do, but I'm too busy and too unoriginal to enter. I'll be watching and anticipating, though. Have fun!

WeaselGuy

2015-04-30, 05:34 AM

I'm down for some Dark Elf shenanigans.

DeAnno

2015-04-30, 05:54 AM

Ok, this is the sort of thing I've been waiting for for a while. I've done well with multiple limbs in IC before after all...

samduke

2015-04-30, 07:16 AM

could be interesting

Sian

2015-04-30, 07:53 AM

handy to get rid of the headache with OA and (to a lesser degree) Dragonlance, although in this contest that would be invalid in and of itself as Lloth doesn't exist in that setting (at least afaik)

Amphetryon

2015-04-30, 07:57 AM

Building without the spreadsheet makes it a bit different for those of us who've gotten used to that tool.

Nice to see clarification on OA/DLCS.

Heliomance

2015-04-30, 08:10 AM

Building without the spreadsheet makes it a bit different for those of us who've gotten used to that tool.

Nice to see clarification on OA/DLCS.

Aye, apologies about that. It won't happen too often. That said, Custom Class is a thing.

sakuuya

2015-04-30, 08:31 AM

My thought process when I saw this thread: What? Dread Fang of Lolth isn't that ba--oh. Ohhhh. Crap.

So it should be fun, in other words.

Heliomance

2015-04-30, 08:39 AM

I finally got around to making a list of classes I want to use as SIs, so I wouldn't keep forgetting my plans.

There's currently nine things on it. It's going to take most of a year to get through all those. And they're all ones I want to inflict upon you uh, see used to their full glory.

Dammit, I'm impatient.

j_spencer93

2015-04-30, 09:10 AM

I might actually enter this one. Actually think I will if college doesn't take up to much time.

KrimsonNekros

2015-04-30, 09:53 AM

*ponders and contemplates*

dysprosium

2015-04-30, 10:13 AM

I think I have an idea or two for this one.

Let's see how real life plays out this time around . . .

j_spencer93

2015-04-30, 10:16 AM

I think I have an idea or two for this one.

Let's see how real life plays out this time around . . .

Not going to lie, that second sentence has me immensely interested in your build. I love seeing D&D a physics being forcibly meshed.

Kesnit

2015-04-30, 10:29 AM

I'm horrible at building. But I have an idea for a concept. But I'm horrible at building...

Deadasadoor

2015-04-30, 12:50 PM

I've had a weird place in my heart for this class since I stumbled across it. Glad to this as an SI.

Zaq

2015-04-30, 02:34 PM

Hmmmm. On the face of it, it doesn't seem that bad. Most of the class features are at least moderately useful, even if few of them are world-changing. It might be a little tough to stand out from the crowd, though, since there's a couple obvious stand-out features that demand attention, so I imagine the majority of builds will focus on those.

I may enter, I may judge, I may spectate. I feel like the class has enough potential that I might come up with something, but I don't have any immediate ideas, so I may just judge.

Can we get a ruling on exactly what changes at 10th level? "Retains her previous [. . .] abilities" is both broad and unclear. For example, it's a property of the Vermin type that Vermin are "proficient with their natural weapons only." (MM1 pg. 317) Is proficiency with other weapons a "previous ability" that is retained? That's just an example, but I figure it'd be better to hammer that out sooner rather than later.

Thurbane

2015-04-30, 05:13 PM

Interesting ingredient - can honestly say I'd never heard of this before.

On the extremely remote chance I get time between work, planning for my wedding, and running my own sandbox campaign, I'd love to get an entry in for this.

j_spencer93

2015-04-30, 08:09 PM

Honestly, i thought this was the dread fang of lolth at first. Lol such similar names, not a freaking thing in common

WhamBamSam

2015-04-30, 09:23 PM

Venger

2015-04-30, 10:21 PM

I was worried for a second there that we were getting another PrC with a race prereq. I'll have to think about this one. Maybe I'll compete, or maybe I'll finally judge after two rounds of failing to get scores done.

I think we all conflated it with the more popular dread fang of lolth.

I'm down to clown. I love this class.

The Viscount

2015-04-30, 10:30 PM

This is quite the mixed bag. I'm tentatively in.

KrimsonNekros

2015-04-30, 10:59 PM

I've got an idea, but I'm not sure if I really want to [redacted ] for [redacted] though I sincerely believe [redacted]. Ah decisions.

*polishes their second place Home Cooking medal and resumes pondering.*

Akal Saris

2015-05-01, 10:15 AM

Oh man, this might be the 1st challenge I've seen where I wasn't even sure if I owned the sourcebook for the class :P

What a silly PrC...the entry requirements/fluff alone are so bizarre!

Curmudgeon

2015-05-01, 12:19 PM

Oh man, this might be the 1st challenge I've seen where I wasn't even sure if I owned the sourcebook for the class
Luckily for you, that's not necessary (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207). Quoting the FAQ post: "Use it, link it."

sakuuya

2015-05-01, 12:48 PM

Luckily for you, that's not necessary (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207). Quoting the FAQ post: "Use it, link it."

Oh yeah, if I was in charge of promoting this book, this is definitely one of the PrCs I'd highlight.

Afgncaap5

2015-05-01, 08:51 PM

I... *might* be in this time. Maybe.

KrimsonNekros

2015-05-01, 09:16 PM

I've got my stub done.

Chronos

2015-05-02, 09:04 AM

OK, I know it gets said a lot, but this one just seems too obvious to me. I can see things I could do with this, but they're all things that everyone would see. I can't figure out how to stand out.

And the prerequisites are definitely weird. What's the point of requiring 10 ranks of UMD, and also requiring the DC 25 check? If you have the former, you can get the latter. Just keep re-trying until you roll well enough (which is possible even with a 1 Cha).

Curmudgeon

2015-05-02, 09:50 AM

And the prerequisites are definitely weird. What's the point of requiring 10 ranks of UMD, and also requiring the DC 25 check? If you have the former, you can get the latter. Just keep re-trying until you roll well enough (which is possible even with a 1 Cha).

Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
In a regular game (instead of a build exercise) you might end up not being able to use the Fang Scarab before you get enough XP to advance a level, and you would be forced to choose some other class instead of Fang of Lolth.

samduke

2015-05-03, 11:38 AM

What's the point of requiring 10 ranks of UMD, and also requiring the DC 25 check? If you have the former, you can get the latter. Just keep re-trying until you roll well enough (which is possible even with a 1 Cha).

I have something of a character worked up
I would like to offer this UMD Link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?413207-UMD-DC-25-check) just as a point of reference on the whole DC 25 check thing.

Curmudgeon

2015-05-03, 12:16 PM

I haven't yet decided if I'm going to enter this round, but at some point courtesy requires that I offer to judge to pay back the time others have expended for my contest entries. When I do judge, I'll use the following criteria.
Building a viable PC in accordance with the rules (of D&D, and of the contest) is the mission.
If a judge is convinced that an entry is mechanically illegal by the RAW, the judge may give the build a score of 0 in Elegance, and proceed to judge the entry as if the offending material was not included. I'll try to reconsider the character after it's stripped of whatever was illegal, but you may well get to a minimum score if significant parts of the character are invalid. (I'm not going to try to redo your build to make the illegal parts right and then judge my version of the character.) Failing to follow the rules may cause your build to fall apart. For instance, if you fail to meet the requirements to enter a prestige class, all the levels of that class you don't qualify for will have to be stripped out and you might be left with a build of just a few levels instead of the 20 you're supposed to have. If you choose to use a race which has no level adjustment listed for PCs you'll automatically receive a minimum score in all categories, with no further consideration of the character.

Dot your Ts and cross your Is, Chefs! Errors can be embarrassing!

Innovation
Innovation is half (2.5 points) subjective, and half based on what the other competitors come up with. If you suprise me you're good for the subjective part, but if everyone surprises me with similar ingredients you'll all suffer lower scores. Top marks come when you surprise me and also distinguish yourself from the competition. Your original choices also have to make sense for the meal; nobody is going to applaud horseradish on your ice cream.

Power
Power of the overall character should be in line with the power of the SI. Slightly better in all respects is perfectly acceptable; that's the ideal recipe. Much more powerful in any one aspect will lose you points, just as adding habanero peppers to a dish that calls for a little cayenne will ruin the meal. More powerful in many ways will send your score toward the minimum; you'll have made something quite zesty, but it won't be the right dish for the competition. You'll receive similar deductions if you fall significantly below the power of the SI. If your character relies on gear you need to list all such equipment requirements, just as you would specify a Culinique pan in a Baked Alaska recipe.

Elegance
No story is required, but if you do include one you need to make it both readable and worth reading.
Use it, link it. Every element of your build is going to get scrutinized by all the judges. If there's an opportunity to link to an online class description, feat, spell, or whatever: use it, link it; it will save time in evaluating your build. If you fail to follow this rule you're deliberately prioritizing your time over that of every judge. If there's no online source please include book title and page number at the first use of each reference.

Adding a section which explains how your entry satisfies each of the the Innovation, Power, Elegance, and Use of Secret Ingredient contest criteria is your opportunity to show your culinary skills to maximum effect. Don't assume that build synergies are obvious to anyone but you: explain to the judges how your recipe combines flavors. I'm disinclined to improve scores afterward for elements you failed to highlight in your entry, so finish your presentation before submitting rather than later as disputes.

Using many sources will never hurt your score if the elements work together. If they don't work well together, keeping the list of sources short won't help you. Similarly, I won't penalize for class dips if they result in a build which works well with the Secret Ingredient. Level Adjustment and a moderate amount of LA buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) are fine with me as long as you follow all the related rules. Spending XP gratuitously (on multiclassing penalties, for instance) will hurt your score; I'll consider XP use exceeding the maximum for level 20 (209,999) a mechanically illegal build. If you've got LA that's not bought off, include it at the end of your build table so feats and skills are represented at the correct levels.

Finally, don't forget the little details. Include place of origin, alignment, subrace, patron deity, point buy numbers, racial and template adjustments, schedule of ability increments, languages, class variants, ACFs, substitution levels, and anything else that's necessary to understand your character.

Use of Secret Ingredient
Your meal should make the best use of the SI from first course to last. If you cram the SI in the last levels of your build without justifying that choice you should expect a low score; you'll have served up only desert rather than a full meal. If you make the rest of the meal bland purposely to showcase the SI you should expect a low score. If the rest of the build doesn't blend harmoniously with the SI you should expect a low score, regardless of whether those choices make the character stronger or weaker. You don't have to use every level of the Secret Ingredient, but if you leave something out you need to show that doing so results in a build which makes better use of the SI (not merely a better character overall).

In short, the build needs to demonstrate why the Secret Ingredient is the best choice for your meal, and not simply there to satisfy a contest requirement.
By posting these criteria well ahead of time I hope to head off avoidable disappointment.

Amphetryon

2015-05-04, 08:00 AM

Thanks for stepping up to volunteer as a judge, Curmudgeon (and welcome to the ICOCitP, if I forgot to say so in previous rounds).

General advice for contestants is to go back and read rounds where a particular judge has scored, to get a feel for what that judge tends to look for, pro and con. As Curmudgeon has a long history as a RAW consultant for this contest, it may be in contestants' best interest to review where he's spoken up on the RAW in the past, I think. Is that fair?

For a hypothetical build using Enlarge Person/Expansion and similar abilities, will you be following your typical reading on how that spell or power functions as a combat nerf, Curmudgeon? I ask because it's often not read that way, so folks may not be including it in their builds with that function in mind.

Curmudgeon

2015-05-04, 10:38 AM

Please note that, while I will be judging Iron Chef, it might not be this round.

As always, I'll try to hew as closely to the RAW as I can. On this particular point, Enlarge Person says it increases your weight by a factor of 8 and your equipment is "similarly enlarged". There's nothing in the spell which says it replaces equipment with dissimilar items (crafted specifically for that larger size, at only 2x the weight), so my take is that "similarly enlarged" means the gear is 8x as heavy. With only a +2 boost to Strength the creature ends up with greater encumbrance.

Even with encumbrance not making any difference (cast against a Dwarf, a Fighter with a Medium load, or a very lightly encumbered Monk), Enlarge Person can still be used offensively. In any scenario where their new height will top the ceiling they'll be subject to squeezing rules (Low condition) and move only at ½ speed. If there are also horizontal restrictions, then Narrow and Low conditions cause a reduction to ¼ normal land speed (Dungeon Master's Guide II, page 55). Just because someone didn't think of an offensive application for the spell doesn't eliminate that possible use. In Iron Chef the contestants are supposed to be demonstrating their creativity in working with the D&D system. A failure to think things through is often regrettable.

Amphetryon

2015-05-04, 11:40 AM

WhamBamSam

2015-05-04, 03:01 PM

Question regarding the Summon Swarm ability. The SRD says
A spell-like ability takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics (usually 1 standard action) unless otherwise stated. which would mean that the casting time is 1 round. The Rules Compendium says that a SLA has a casting time of 1 standard action unless the spell ordinarily takes less time than that (or something to that effect).

I assume we're taking the usual line that the Rules Compendium lacks the authority to overrule a primary source, and that the casting time remains 1 round, but it seemed like it might be worth asking about.

Heliomance

2015-05-04, 05:14 PM

Curmudgeon

2015-05-04, 05:29 PM

My thinking is that if the Rules Compendium lacks the authority to override a primary source, it is an entirely pointless book. The intention is clearly for it to function as errata, and be treated as the primary source for anything it contains.
The problem there is that

Rules Compendium limited its (self-proclaimed) override authority to preexisting books; and
all the Premium core books, printed after Rules Compendium, backed out every change that RC made, while introducing at least some rules not contained in original core rules + errata.

If you've got the Premium core books you're instructed by all the WotC rules to ignore everything in Rules Compendium.

dysprosium

2015-05-06, 01:52 PM

I'm not liking my build so far. It's missing something but I don't know what.

And I thought I had to abandon it but then I checked the deadline and realized I had more time than I thought.

Maybe I can pull this off after all . . .

Heliomance

2015-05-07, 02:25 AM

Just to clarify, because there's been some confusion in entries I've received:

LA is not HD.
LA does not grant HD.
LA does not grant BAB.
LA does not grant saves.
LA does not grant skill points.
LA does not increase your skill point caps.
LA does not contribute towards character level.
LA ONLY contributes towards ECL, and thus to XP and WBL calculations.

WeaselGuy

2015-05-11, 05:49 AM

So uh, I have a couple questions about the Fang Scarab...

Fang Scarab

A fang-shaped crystal dangles from a loop of finely wrought silver chain in the center of this spiderweb medallion. When the chain is used to wrap the fang scarab around the juncture of a monstrous spider's cephalothorax (head) and abdomen, the creature can hear Lolth's dark whispers in its subconscious. This gives it an instinctive knowledge of what the next moment will bring, which manifests as a +1 insight bonus on attack rolls.

Because the fang scarab is designed for spiders, it's not useful to most adventurers. A nonspider can make a fang scarab function with a successful Use Magic Device check (DC 25), but this also fuses it permanently to its user's neck, near the throat. Nothing short of the wearer's death can then remove it.

Though the fang scarab grants its wearer the same attack bonus that it would to a spider, it also initiates a terrible metamorphosis that changes the wearer into a half-spider abomination over time. When the scarab first attaches itself, the wearer's canine teeth enlarge, and coarse black hair appears on the back of her neck. No further changes occur until she attains levels in the fang of Lolth prestige class (see Physical Changes, page 10).

Caster Level: 5th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, divination; Market Price: 3,500 gp; Weight: -- .

So, it says that it fuses permanently to the user's neck, near the throat, and nothing short of the wearer's death can remove it.
It also says in the class description that one can become a Fang of Lolth only after successfully UMD'ing the Fang Scarab in order to reap it's benefits for one's self.
My first question is: Does one indeed gain the benefit of the Fang Scarab after it fuses to their neck?
Secondly, does the Fang Scarab take up the neck slot on the body for purposes of magic items worn?

Thanks in advance!

Heliomance

2015-05-11, 07:12 AM

You do indeed gain the benefits once it fuses - it says as much in the description. And yes, I'm inclined to say it does take up your neck slot.

WeaselGuy

2015-05-11, 07:18 AM

You do indeed gain the benefits once it fuses - it says as much in the description. And yes, I'm inclined to say it does take up your neck slot.

Hrmm... good to know, but stinks for reasons. Thank you! I'll figure out a work-around.

The Viscount

2015-05-11, 11:32 PM

exactly[/I] what changes at 10th level? "Retains her previous [. . .] abilities" is both broad and unclear. For example, it's a property of the Vermin type that Vermin are "proficient with their natural weapons only." (MM1 pg. 317) Is proficiency with other weapons a "previous ability" that is retained? That's just an example, but I figure it'd be better to hammer that out sooner rather than later.

Did this get answered? Are we to assume that you retain weapon and armor proficiency because they are class-based?

WhamBamSam

2015-05-12, 12:35 AM

Did this get answered? Are we to assume that you retain weapon and armor proficiency because they are class-based?There are plenty of creature types that have similar language describing their proficencies. Humanoid is the only type with the "or by character class" language. I've never seen anyone rule that 10th level Dragon Disciples lose martial weapon proficiencies, for instance. So it seems pretty obvious that you should retain those. Zaq is right that the broad language does have some weird potential implications. The thing that might get screwy is if you stopped qualifying for a feat or something (say for the sake of argument that the feat requires a certain non-Vermin creature type) where you'd ordinarily lose the benefit, but with a permissive reading of the text, you might retain said benefit as written. Hell, that might be the RAI for all I know.

Heliomance

2015-05-14, 05:17 PM

Just over two days left, and I've only had one entry. What's going on?

WhamBamSam

2015-05-14, 09:01 PM

Just over two days left, and I've only had one entry. What's going on?I'm still plugging away. I'll definitely be submitting.

WeaselGuy

2015-05-14, 09:08 PM

Just over two days left, and I've only had one entry. What's going on?

Studying for my Net+ and Sec+ classes, but I'll get it done tomorrow :smallbiggrin:

Afgncaap5

2015-05-14, 09:25 PM

I'm almost done. As usual for me and making characters beyond level 1, I'm getting hung up on skill point selection.

The Viscount

2015-05-15, 12:03 AM

Guess we just don't have that many fast cooks. It's not that surprising. I'd say at least half of the entries usually are submitted in the last 48 hours, probably a quarter in the last 12.

KrimsonNekros

2015-05-15, 12:43 AM

I'm almost done. As usual for me and making characters beyond level 1, I'm getting hung up on skill point selection.

Have you looked at Heroforge? It really helps speed that process up.

Sian

2015-05-15, 02:00 AM

For me, the primary issue is that i can't get the build idea i have to get to the point where it wouldn't fail hard on the question "why not more of one of the classes you're using"

WhamBamSam

2015-05-15, 02:13 AM

Well, I've got one build that's done but for the fluff, but I think my second idea might have to be scrapped. The original version is dead in the water without a flaw or something on the order of a Chaos Shuffle, but I think the workaround might actually be less elegant than just taking the flaw.

EDIT: Turns out the workaround doesn't actually work due to [redacted]. The feat timing is completely unworkable without at least one flaw.

Afgncaap5

2015-05-15, 02:33 AM

And submitted. Naturally, as it's a first entry there'll be something really basic I've forgotten to include but oh well, too late now.

Have you looked at Heroforge? It really helps speed that process up.

I haven't. I've heard good things about Hero Forge, so I should look into it. Especially if it's got handy level to level breakdowns. Or things like "To get these three skills to these requirements by levels X, Y, and Z, divide them up like this". That'd be nifty.

OMG PONIES

2015-05-15, 06:50 AM

Just over two days left, and I've only had one entry. What's going on?

Crazy busy @ new job + mother's day + wife's 30th birthday + party prep + best friend's birthday + wedding anniversary - any free time at all = Ponies' week.

Head + desk. But I may be in to judge?

dysprosium

2015-05-15, 08:20 AM

I'm hoping that I can get my entry submitted. ** crosses fingers **

WeaselGuy

2015-05-15, 08:24 AM

I have to tabulate my skills, items, and by level breakdown, then I think my entry should be done. Can some that can math tell me how many hours are left in the competition? Mostly so I don't have to do time-zone conversion?

WhamBamSam

2015-05-15, 11:55 AM

About 41 hours from the time of this post, if I'm not mistaken.

Zaq

2015-05-15, 01:02 PM

I just haven't come up with anything interesting or original. I might get suddenly inspired in the next day or so, but in the more likely case that that doesn't happen, I might judge. The fact that it's a skill-heavy class makes me nervous about judging (I remember the HOURS I spent judging Dread Pirate—chefs, PLEASE make your skill points easy to read), but I do kind of need something to do. I'll think about it.

KrimsonNekros

2015-05-15, 02:50 PM

And submitted. Naturally, as it's a first entry there'll be something really basic I've forgotten to include but oh well, too late now.

I haven't. I've heard good things about Hero Forge, so I should look into it. Especially if it's got handy level to level breakdowns. Or things like "To get these three skills to these requirements by levels X, Y, and Z, divide them up like this". That'd be nifty.

It doesn't do the latter, but it does keep track of how many points you get each level, and what your class skills are each level.

Deadasadoor

2015-05-15, 05:35 PM

I've been having some trouble coming up with something original... I love this class though and I should have my entry in by tonight.

WhamBamSam

2015-05-15, 06:56 PM

I'm only going to get one entry in where I was hoping for two, but it's at least finished. Your PM box is full though, Heliomance.

Chronos

2015-05-15, 09:37 PM

Deadasadoor

2015-05-15, 10:51 PM

As an aside, what's the best way to list skills for these things? My first Iron Chef, the judges said my presentation made eyes bleed because they couldn't tell which skills were added each level, and the second, I color-coded the new ones, but still got complaints.

I personally just copy-paste the skills from the previous level, and then bold the skills that get more ranks. It's easy when you're doing something like concentration on a caster, since you only need to change the number of ranks. I'm sure some of the long time contestants have a better system though.

Heliomance

2015-05-16, 02:11 AM

I'm only going to get one entry in where I was hoping for two, but it's at least finished. Your PM box is full though, Heliomance.

Inbox cleared

OMG PONIES

2015-05-16, 06:02 AM

Heliomance

2015-05-17, 06:32 AM

And time! Entries to follow.

Heliomance

2015-05-17, 06:34 AM

Having to be touched by Lolth is said to be a major downside of the Lolth-touched template.

Nymera

Character Background

Background
This taint is killing the unborn childs mother" said the cleric to her mate.

Apon hearing the cleric's words she expressed her will to see her first and only child born. "The potion I have given her will keep her alive long enough to give

birth." said the cleric to her mate. Shortly after giving birth and holding her newborn daughter she faded into death.

Her father blamed the child for her mothers death and he began drinking excessively and the towns folk did not take kindly to her either. The children would not play

with her and picked on her at every turn. She would often hear them saying that she was not right, not natural. As a result she spent most of her time alone. Her

birthday every year was an annual reminder to her father that his wife was dead and this girl was the reason.

On her 18th birthday she was told that it was time that she left. So she went out to learn more about herself and possible how she might remove this taint.
As she left town a dark voice started whispering to her, distorted and unclear to what was being said to her. so she set out to discover the meaning of the voice
and took up training as a druid, learning everything she could. Over the months & years the voice would return each time becoming less distorted and more clear in

reguards to where she must go and what she must do.

After one such occasion she talked to a wise elder of her order and asked what the voice could want, "The words you hear are that of the spider queen, Lolth is calling

you and you are to server her as a preistess" said the eldar and without further comment dismissed her from his pressence and the order she had served for several

years, so that she could go and do the biddings of Lolth.

Racial Information

Human
alignment NE(CE)

lolth touched aquired template
str +6 con +6
+4 hide, move silently
fearless: immune to all fear effects
La+1

Laguages: common, undercommon, druid secret language, elven

32 point buy
Str 10 Dex 10 Con 10 Int 14 Wis 16 Cha 16

lvl 4 +1 Cha
lvl 8 +1 Cha
lvl 10 +6 Str, +6 Con
lvl 12 +1 Dex
lvl 16 +1 Wis
lvl 20 +1 Dex

Str 16 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 17 Cha 18

Effective Character Levels
Effective Character Levels

Level
Class/Prc
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Druid
0
2
0
2
Concentration 4, Diplomacy 4, Gather Information 4, Handle Animal 4, Spellcraft 4, Tumble 4, Use Magic Device 4
Spellcasting Prodigy, Able Learner
Animal companion, nature sense, wild empathy

2nd
Druid
1
3
0
3
Concentration 5, Diplomacy 5, Gather Information 5, Handle Animal 5, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 5, Use Magic Device 5
-
Woodland stride

3rd
Druid
2
3
1
3
Concentration 6, Diplomacy 6, Gather Information 6, Handle Animal 6, Spellcraft 6, Tumble 6, Use Magic Device 6
Natural Bond
Trackless step

4th
Druid
3
4
1
4
Concentration 7, Diplomacy 7, Gather Information 7, Handle Animal 7, Spellcraft 7, Tumble 7, Use Magic Device 7
-
Resist nature’s lures

5th
Druid
3
4
1
4
Concentration 8, Diplomacy 8, Gather Information 8, Handle Animal 8, Spellcraft 8, Tumble 8, Use Magic Device 8
-
Wild shape (1/day)

6th
Druid
4
5
2
5
Concentration 9, Diplomacy 9, Gather Information 9, Handle Animal 9, Spellcraft 9, Tumble 9, Use Magic Device 9
Extra Wild Shape
Wild shape (2/day)

7th
Druid
5
5
2
5
Concentration 10, Diplomacy 10, Gather Information 10, Handle Animal 10, Spellcraft 10, Tumble 10, Use Magic Device 10
-
Wild shape (3/day)

8th
Druid
6
6
2
6
Concentration 11, Diplomacy 11, Gather Information 11, Handle Animal 11, Spellcraft 11, Tumble 11, Use Magic Device 11
-
Wild shape (Large)

9th
Druid
6
6
3
6
Concentration 12, Diplomacy 12, Gather Information 12, Handle Animal 12, Spellcraft 12, Tumble 12, Use Magic Device 12
Natural Spell
Venom immunity

10th
Template Level Adjustment
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

11th
Fang of Lolth
6
6
5
6
Concentration 14, Diplomacy 14, Gather Information 13, Handle Animal 13, Spellcraft 13, Tumble 13, Use Magic Device 13
-
Skill bonuses, +2 competence on Climb & Jump, +4 insight bonus on Use Magic Device, Skin darkens

12th
Fang of Lolth
7
6
6
6
Concentration 15, Diplomacy 15, Gather Information 15, Handle Animal 15, Spellcraft 14, Tumble 14, Use Magic Device 14
Improved Natural Attack
Sneak attack +1d6 Limbs lengthen

13th
Fang of Lolth
8
7
6
7
Concentration 16, Diplomacy 16, Gather Information 16, Handle Animal 16, Spellcraft 16, Tumble 16, Use Magic Device 15
-
Spider bite Jaw unhinges to allow bite attack

14th
Fang of Lolth
9
7
7
7
Concentration 17, Diplomacy 17, Gather Information 17, Handle Animal 17, Jump 1, Spellcraft 17, Tumble 17, Use Magic Device 17
-
Climb speed 20 ft Eyes enlarge and become multifaceted

15th
Fang of Lolth
9
7
7
7
Concentration 18, Diplomacy 18, Gather Information 18, Handle Animal 18, Jump 3, Spellcraft 18, Tumble 18, Use Magic Device 18
Assume Supernatural Ability
Sneak attack +2d6 Fingers and toes lengthen

16th
Fang of Lolth
10
8
8
8
Concentration 19, Diplomacy 19, Gather Information 19, Handle Animal 19, Jump 5, Spellcraft 19, Tumble 19, Use Magic Device 19
-
Natural armor +2, spider vision Tufts of coarse, black hair cover body, eyes develop spider vision

17th
Fang of Lolth
11
8
8
8
Concentration 20, Diplomacy 20, Gather Information 20, Handle Animal 20, Jump 7, Spellcraft 20, Tumble 20, Use Magic Device 20
-
Summon swarm Back hunches

18th
Fang of Lolth
12
8
9
8
Concentration 21, Diplomacy 21, Gather Information 21, Handle Animal 21, Jump 9, Spellcraft 21, Tumble 21, Use Magic Device 21
Improved Assume Supernatural Ability
Sneak attack +3d6 Smallest finger or toe on each limb atrophies away harmlessly

19th
Fang of Lolth
12
9
9
9
Concentration 22, Diplomacy 22, Gather Information 22, Handle Animal 22, Jump 11, Spellcraft 22, Tumble 22, Use Magic Device 22
-
Spider limbs Grows extra spider-like limbs

20th
Fang of Lolth
13
10
9
10
Concentration 23, Diplomacy 23, Gather Information 23, Handle Animal 23, Jump 13, Spellcraft 23, Tumble 23, Use Magic Device 23
feat
Natural armor +4, vermin type Insect chitlin covers skin

spells

spells

Lvl 0
Lvl 1
Lvl 2
Lvl 3
Lvl 4
Lvl 5

6
4
4
3
2
1

spell list
0
Create Water
Cure Minor Wounds
Detect Magic
Guidance
Light
1
Babau Slime SC
Beget Bogun SC
Camouflage SC
Endure Elements
Lessor Vigor SC
Obscuring Mist
Spider Hand BoVD
2
Acorn of Far Travel WotC
Animalistic Power PHB2
Earthbind SC
Lesser Restoration
Splinterbolt SC
3
Poison
Venomfire SK
Vigor
Mass Lesser Vigor SC
4
Arc of Lightning SC
Bite of the Wereboar SC
Enhance Wild Shape SC
Sheltered Vitality SC
Vortex of Teeth SC
5
Baleful Polymorph
Bite of the Weretiger SC
Death Ward

Animal Companion / Wild Shape Form

Fleshraker Dinosaur MM3

Sources

Sources
SRD
Druid (phb p33)
lolth touched (mm4 p93)
Fang of Lolth (Song and Silence p8)
Able Learner ( Races of Destiny, p. 150)
Spellcasting Prodigy ( Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, p. 38)
Natural Bond ( Complete Adventurer, p. 111)
Extra Wild Shape ( Complete Divine, p. 81)
Natural Spell ( Player's Handbook v.3.5, p. 98)
Improved Natural Attack ( Monster Manual v.3.5, p. 304)
Assume Supernatural Ability ( Savage Species, p. 30)
Improved Assume Supernatural Ability ( Savage Species, p. 35)

Heliomance

2015-05-17, 06:35 AM

Winter is coming.

Robin Zarantyr
NE Human Druid 9/Human Paragon 1/Fang of Lolth 10

Robin Zarantyr (originally Robin ir'Zan) was raised by a respectable family in Aundair, a family that always assumed his love for taking things apart to see how they worked would lead to a position as a magewright, or artificer. Even wizardry was discussed at one point. His mind was never in those studies, however, and he soon departed to the west, feeling called to nature.

After seeing a border town destroyed by the Ashbound... and the nonchalance about the destruction from another mysterious druid... he was intrigued. He followed the unknown druid, not heeding the warnings about gnawed bone or the description of these "Children of Winter" as heretics or lunatics. There was something appealing about the idea of allowing destruction so that something new, something better, might come into place.

He survived a trial in The Gloaming... barely... and found himself in a life of constant competition for survival. Soon, though, the old territories didn't seem like enough. If all is to be destroyed by the great Winter to make way for the coming Spring, doesn't that include the very druidic traditions they had established?

Intrigued... and putting his training (and what little remained of the funds his parents had given him for his journeys) to work... he began investigating ways to push the boundaries of the druidic teachings, supplementing them with the arcane practices and rituals of nearby communities. Soon this was not enough either, and he knew he needed to take his tinkering with wands and scrolls to somewhere truly different. He sailed for Xen'Drik.

It was there that he discovered the worshippers of Vulkoor.

It was from them that he learned of the forbidden tunnels. The caves of the Umbragen. And beyond the Umbragen...

In a temple dedicated to one called The Spinner of Shadows, other Drow had left relics of their once great studies. He took one... a fang-shaped crystal on a loop of finely wrought silver... and worked it carefully until he learned to use it as the spiders did. And then it dug in...

In the five years since, he has returned to The Gloaming, and learned more. His own work... and the advice of the whispers of The Spinner, the whispers that never cease... continue to guide him. The regular animals and allies of nature still come when called, but there is a sadness to them. The insects, though... they appear to encourage him. And so do the whispers.

He really should write home one of these days. Just to keep in touch.

Ability Scores
Base stats at level 1:
Str 15 +2
Dex 14 +2
Con 10 +0
Int 12 +1
Wis 15 +2
Cha 12 +1

Base stats at level 20:
Str 16 +3
Dex 14 +2
Con 10 +0
Int 13 +1
Wis 18 +4
Cha 12 +1

Level Breakdown

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Druid 1
+0
+2
+0
+2
Concentration 4, Handle Animal 4, Knowledge (Nature) 4, Listen 2, Spellcraft 4, Spot 2, Survival 4
Child of Winter, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Animal Companion, Nature Sense, Wild Empathy

2nd
Human Paragon 1
+0
+2
+0
+4
Concentration 4, Handle Animal 4, Hide 1, Knowledge (Nature) 4, Listen 2, Spellcraft 4, Spot 2, Survival 4, Use Magic Device 5

Adaptive Learning (Use Magic Device)

3rd
Druid 2
+1
+3
+0
+5
Concentration 5, Handle Animal 5, Hide 1, Knowledge (Nature) 5, Listen 2, Spellcraft 5, Spot 2, Survival 5, Use Magic Device 6
Augment Summoning
Woodland Stride

4th
Druid 3
+2
+3
+1
+5
Concentration 6, Handle Animal 6, Hide 1, Knowledge (Nature) 6, Listen 2, Spellcraft 6, Spot 2, Survival 6, Use Magic Device 7

Trackless Step

5th
Druid 4
+3
+4
+1
+6
Concentration 7, Handle Animal 7, Hide 1, Knowledge (Nature) 7, Listen 2, Spellcraft 7, Spot 2, Survival 7, Use Magic Device 8

Resist Nature's Lure

6th
Druid 5
+3
+4
+1
+6
Concentration 8, Handle Animal 8, Hide 1, Knowledge (Nature) 8, Listen 2, Spellcraft 8, Spot 2, Survival 8, Use Magic Device 9
Natural Spell
Wild Shape (1/Day)

7th
Druid 6
+4
+5
+2
+7
Concentration 10, Handle Animal 8, Hide 1, Knowledge (Nature) 9, Listen 2, Spellcraft 9, Spot 2, Survival 9, Use Magic Device 10

Wild Shape (2/Day)

8th
Druid 7
+5
+5
+2
+7
Concentration 11, Handle Animal 9, Hide 1, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 2, Spellcraft 10, Spot 2, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 11

Wild Shape (3/Day)

9th
Fang of Lolth 1
+5
+5
+4
+7
Concentration 11, Climb 1, Handle Animal 9, Hide 2, Intimidate 1, Jump 1, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 3, Move Silently 1, Spellcraft 10, Spot 3, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 12
Vermin Shape
Skill Bonuses, Physical Changes

10th
Fang of Lolth 2
+6
+5
+5
+7
Concentration 11, Climb 2, Handle Animal 9, Hide 3, Intimidate 2, Jump 2, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 4, Move Silently 2, Spellcraft 10, Spot 4, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 13

Sneak Attack +1d6

11th
Fang of Lolth 3
+7
+6
+5
+8
Concentration 11, Climb 3, Handle Animal 9, Hide 4, Intimidate 3, Jump 3, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 5, Move Silently 3, Spellcraft 10, Spot 5, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 14

Spider Bite

12th
Fang of Lolth 4
+8
+6
+6
+8
Concentration 11, Climb 4, Handle Animal 9, Hide 5, Intimidate 4, Jump 4, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 6, Move Silently 4, Spellcraft 10, Spot 6, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 15
Vermin Companion
Climb Speed 20 ft.

13th
Fang of Lolth 5
+8
+6
+6
+8
Concentration 11, Climb 5, Handle Animal 9, Hide 6, Intimidate 5, Jump 5, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 7, Move Silently 5, Spellcraft 10, Spot 7, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 16

Sneak Attack +2d6

14th
Fang of Lolth 6
+9
+7
+7
+9
Concentration 11, Climb 6, Handle Animal 9, Hide 7, Intimidate 6, Jump 6, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 8, Move Silently 6, Spellcraft 10, Spot 8, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 17

Natural Armor +2, Spider Vision

15th
Fang of Lolth 7
+10
+7
+7
+9
Concentration 11, Climb 7, Handle Animal 9, Hide 8, Intimidate 7, Jump 7, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 9, Move Silently 7, Spellcraft 10, Spot 9, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 18
Savage Grapple
Summon Swarm

16th
Fang of Lolth 8
+11
+7
+8
+9
Concentration 11, Climb 8, Handle Animal 9, Hide 9, Intimidate 8, Jump 8, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 10, Move Silently 8, Spellcraft 10, Spot 10, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 19

Sneak Attack +3d6

17th
Fang of Lolth 9
+11
+8
+8
+10
Concentration 11, Climb 9, Handle Animal 9, Hide 10, Intimidate 9, Jump 9, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 11, Move Silently 9, Spellcraft 10, Spot 11, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 20

Spider Limbs

18th
Fang of Lolth 10
+12
+8
+9
+11
Concentration 11, Climb 10, Handle Animal 9, Hide 11, Intimidate 10, Jump 10, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 12, Move Silently 10, Spellcraft 10, Spot 12, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 21
Spiderfriend Magic
Natural Armor +4, Vermin Type

19th
Druid 8
+13
+9
+9
+12
Concentration 12, Climb 10, Handle Animal 10, Hide 11, Intimidate 10, Jump 10, Knowledge (Nature) 10, Listen 12, Move Silently 10, Spellcraft 11, Spot 12, Survival 10, Use Magic Device 22, Skill Trick: Swift Concentration

Wild Shape (Large)

20th
Druid 9
+13
+9
+10
+12
Concentration 13, Climb 10, Handle Animal 11, Hide 11, Intimidate 10, Jump 10, Knowledge (Nature) 11, Listen 12, Move Silently 10, Spellcraft 12, Spot 12, Survival 11, Use Magic Device 23, Skill Trick: Swift Concentration

Venom Immunity

Spells per Day

Level
0lvl
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th
6th
7th
8th
9th

1st
3
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

2nd
3
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

3rd
4
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

4th
4
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

5th
5
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-
-

6th
5
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-
-

7th
5
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-
-

8th
6
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

9th
6
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

10th
6
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

11th
6
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

12th
6
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

13th
6
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

14th
6
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

15th
6
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

16th
6
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

17th
6
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

18th
6
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-
-

19th
6
4
3
3
2
-
-
-
-
-

20th
6
4
4
3
2
1
-
-
-
-

5th Level: At this point in his career, Robin has started tiring of the constant battles for dominance within the Children of Winter, turning more and more to studying the arcane tools of the outside world to supplement his understanding of magical abilities. As a Child of Winter he has started summoning insects (augmented ones, no less) as well as nature's other allies, to fend off the other Children of Winter who feel that he's straying from the path.

10th Level: Robin has sailed to Xen'Drik at this point, and has started seeking out arcane and eldritch secrets within the temples he finds there. The Drow are hostile, but it's nothing he hadn't already faced while dealing with the Children of Winter. His ability to charm their scorpions led to him learning more of their secrets and gaining access to more of their relics to use... until he first donned the Fang of Lolth. Initially mortified, he saw it as a sign to continue on his path as a Child of Winter, and encouragement to continue seeking destruction... something the whispers encourage, even as he learns to take the form of monstrous vermin in combat.

15th Level: Fun combat begins right around here, as Zarantyr has many options in combat. He can summon insects, has his own verminous animal companion (a Giant Stag Beetle), can summon swarms, and can even strike from the shadows himself. Having returned to Khorvaire and rejoined the Children of Winter, he's simultaneously more rooted in their cause and more committed to the idea of manipulating the magic of other traditions to find whatever works to bring about the Great Winter.

20th Level: As fun as level 15 is, levels 18-20 is the Sweet Spot. While he still does most of the same things, these different abilities now begin to work together better than ever. Now a vermin himself, Zarantyr can affect himself with Druidic spells that usually only affect animals. He can cast Animal Growth on himself in his natural form, or while wild-shaped (he prefers the Giant Stag Beetle, but toys with other forms that allow him to grapple well, such as that of the Giant Praying Mantis) and often grapples his enemies to deal the sneak attack damage in addition to the regular damage of a grapple. He generally prefers to stick to the shadows and stealthily have his vermin minions do his work for him, casting spells for support. Thanks to one of the final gifts of the Spinner of Shadows... in the form of the Spiderfriend Magic feat... he can also put himself or his many, many verminous friends directly into the line of fire without fear. His favorite trick involves casting Call Lightning Storm, wild-shaping, grappling, and while using his Sneak Attack also calling upon the Swift Concentration metamagic feat to have the lightning attack the square that he and his victim are within. He tends to stick to the shadows of The Gloaming these days... even the other Children of Winter are a little worried about what he's become and what he may, in time, still be turning into.

Player's Handbook: Druid, Human, Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Natural Spell
Unearthed Arcana: Paragon Human
Song And Silence: Fang Of Lolth
Eberron Campaign Setting: Child of Winter, Vermin Shape, Vermin Companion
Complete Adventurer: Savage Grapple
Drow of the Underdark: Spiderfriend Magic
Complete Scoundrel: Swift Concentration Skill Trick

Heliomance

2015-05-17, 06:42 AM

This is a spider that can legitimately eat your soul. Does it get scarier than that?

Lucy “Legs” Silvertail
CE Silverbrow Human Totemist 2/Battle Dancer 1/Sorcerer 1/Hit-and-Run Fighter 2/Osteomancer 3/Fang of Lolth 10/Soul Eater 1

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Two_Tailed_Spider_%28Hersilia_savignyi%29.JPG/1280px-Two_Tailed_Spider_%28Hersilia_savignyi%29.JPGA two-tailed spider. Source: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hersilia_(spider)#/media/File:Two_Tailed_Spider_(Hersilia_savignyi).JPG)
New ToothLucy slid the chain through her hand as she contemplated the mutilated form of the Drow she had just taken it from, if Drow she could still be called. Beneath the slashes and lumps that Lucy’s barrage (not to mention ripping out the scarab, which had fused into the Drow’s neck) had left, was a gangling, twisted thing. Insectile black hair had sprouted up around her neck beneath the matted, dirty remnants of the usual flowing white, and the disjointed, slavering jaw was like nothing humanoid. This and more awaited Lucy if she claimed the scarab, she knew. She had heard tales of the monstrosities who had worn the Fang Scarabs until they were left more spider than anything.

But then, Lucy was already something of a monstrosity. The fanged and horned faces of a chimera masked her own. Shimmering claws stretched from her fingers. A pair of powerful tails, one shimmering and spectral, and the other a hard, dull, scaled thing, extended out behind her. And all over her body, even along the ghostly second tail, spikes of steel-hard bone, sharp as knives protruded. And why not? What had humanity ever gotten her? She had been born with the scaled tail, and even before any of the rest had come along, that had made her an outcast among her own kind, and when she had been captured by the drow, humanity had earned her years of enslavement. It was not humanity that had given her freedom, but the ferocity of bestial spirits and dragon’s blood. She had little need of any of her human body save the skeleton, and even that had become more like a spider’s external carapace than anything else.

Still, this was drow magic, and Lucy had suffered enough of being treated like an insect by the dark elves to not want to fly too eagerly into the web of their spider queen. Then again, few seemed to have quite the same fervor for killing Drow as Lolth, even if it was dressed up in survival of the fittest moralizing. If there was power to be had, she might as well take it and have done with it.

With a grunt of acceptance, Lucy slid the chain around her neck, and began to fiddle with the crystal fang at the end of it, trying to tap into the magic within. After a few moments of tinkering, the crystal gleamed, then just as she smiled with satisfaction, it sank painfully into her neck. The chain began to sink into her flesh even as coarse black hair sprouted up beneath it, tangling through the metal links. The shifting of her teeth was old hat to her by then, but it was still jarring to feel it happen involuntarily.

More jarring still, was the voice. It was at once like a woman whispering in her ear, and spiders skittering across the inside of her skull. “Who are you?” it demanded. “This was Jhulnol’s scarab. What, pray tell, has become of my fang?”

“Your fang was abscessed, and needed to be removed.” Lucy said, trying to sound calm and confident, though she felt goosebumps rising along her neck, and was sure that the voice would hear it through the chain. “Baby teeth have to come out for the adult teeth to properly come in. I know more of bones than prayers, but I’m told that’s also the essence of your dogma.”

“You seem more a baby tooth than an adult one to me, little human,” said the voice, but it sounded amused this time. “Very well. You’re my new fang. Perhaps your bite will suffice once you’ve grown in.”
Race and Ability ScoresSilverbrow Human(Dragon Magic, pg. 6) which is identical to the standard Human(SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/races.htm#humans)) except as follows.
Dragonblood Subtype
Feather Fall SLA 1/day plus 1/5 character levels.
No Bonus Skill Points
+2 racial bonus on Disguise checks, and Disguise is always considered a class skill.
16 Str, 15 Dex, 14 Con, 10 Int, 8 Wis, 14 Cha
Increase Str at all level increases.
The Build

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Totemist (Magic of Incarnum, pg. 29) 1
+0
+2
+2
+0
Heal 2cc, Knowledge (Arcana) 4, Knowledge (Nature) 4, Spot 4
1st level: Dragon Tail (Races of the Dragon, pg. 98), Human: Azure Toughness (Magic of Incarnum, pg. 35)*
Wild Empathy, Illiteracy

2nd
Totemist 2
+1
+3
+3
+0
Heal +½ cc (2½), Spot +1 (5), Disguise 2
-
Totem Chakra Bind (+1 Capacity)

3rd
Battle Dancer (Dragon Compendium, pg. 26) 1
+2
+5
+5
+2
Heal +½ cc (3), Spot +1 (6), Disguise +2 (4)
3rd level: Multiattack (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#multiattack))*, Battle Dancer 1: Improved Unarmed Strike (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedUnarmedStrike))
AC Bonus, Unarmed Strike

4th
Sorcerer (SRD ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#sorcerer)) 1
+2
+5
+5
+4
Spellcraft 2
Familiar: Alertness (SRD ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#alertness))
Summon Familiar (Owl: +3 to Spot in shadows)

5th
Hit-and-Run (Drow of the Underdark, pg. 58) Fighter(SRD ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/fighter.htm)) 1
+3
+7
+5
+4
Heal +1 cc (4)
Fighter 1: Two-Weapon Fighting(SRD ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#twoWeaponFighting))
Hit-and-Run Tactics

6th
Fighter 2
+4
+8
+5
+4
Disguise +2 (6)
6th level: Prehensile Tail (Serpent Kingdoms, pg. 147), Replacing Two-Weapon Fighting (as Lucy now effectively has 3 hands): Multiweapon Fighting (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#multiweaponFighting)), Fighter 2: Point Blank Shot (SRD ( http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#pointBlankShot))
-

7th
Osteomancer (Dragon Compendium, pg. 82) 1
+4
+10
+5
+6
Use Magic Device 4
-
Boneless, Immunity to Disease

8th
Osteomancer 2
+5
+11
+5
+7
Use Magic Device +4 (8)
-
Skeletal Shift

9th
Osteomancer 3
+6
+11
+6
+7
Use Magic Device +4 (12)
9th level: Improved Multiattack (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiattack))
Bone Spurs, Unnerve

10th
Fang of Lolth (Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207); also Song of Silence, pg. 8[/url]) 1
+6
+11
+8
+7
Use Magic Device +1 (13), Spot +3 (9), Disguise +2 (8)
-
Skill Bonuses

11th
Fang of Lolth 2
+7
+11
+9
+7
Use Magic Device +1 (14), Spot +3 (12), Disguise +2 (10)
-
Sneak Attack 1d6

12th
Fang of Lolth 3
+8
+12
+9
+8
Use Magic Device +1 (15), Spot +3 (15), Clarity of Vision (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 85)
12th level: Craven (Champions of Ruin, pg. 17)**
Spider Bite

13th
Fang of Lolth 4
+9
+12
+10
+8
Use Magic Device +1 (16), Spot +1 (16), Balance 4
-
Climb Speed 20ft

14th
Fang of Lolth 5
+9
+12
+10
+8
Use Magic Device +1 (17), Spot +1 (17), Balance +1 (5), Tumble 3
-
Sneak Attack 2d6

15th
Fang of Lolth 6
+10
+13
+11
+9
Use Magic Device +1 (18), Spot +1 (18) Tumble +2 (5), Twisted Charge (Complete Scoundrel, pg. 90)
15th level: Precise Shot(SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#preciseShot))
Natural Armor +2, Spider Vision

16th
Fang of Lolth 7
+11
+13
+11
+9
Use Magic Device +1 (19), Spot +1 (19), Spellcraft +1cc (3), Disguise +1 (12)
-
Summon Swarm

17th
Fang of Lolth 8
+12
+13
+12
+9
Use Magic Device +1 (20), Spot +1 (20), Spellcraft +2cc (5)
-
Sneak Attack 3d6

18th
Fang of Lolth 9
+12
+14
+12
+10
Use Magic Device +1 (21), Spot +1 (21), Disguise +3 (15), Decipher Script 1
Weapon Focus(Bone Spurs***) (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus))
Spider Limbs

19th
Fang of Lolth 10
+13
+14
+13
+10
Use Magic Device +1 (22), Spot +1 (22), Decipher Script +4 (5)
-
Natural Armor +4, Vermin Type

20th
Soul Eater(Book of Vile Darkness, pg. 66) 1
+14
+16
+15
+12
Use Magic Device +1cc (23)
-
Energy Drain 1

*Ask your DM if you can take Multiattack at 1st level and Azure Toughness at 3rd instead. You do have enough natural attacks at first level thanks to Claws of the Wyrm(Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=4); also Dragon Magic, pg. 83), but needing to actually shape the soulmeld makes it too sketchy to risk the entry on.
**This operates under Curmudgeon’s interpretation that not all fear effects are Mind-Affecting, but only the vast majority. If your DM rules that the Vermin type causes you to no longer qualify for Craven, then we have a bit of a situation, unless they say that the retaining of previous abilities includes the benefits of feats you no longer qualify for. See the Adaptation section for possible options on how to deal with this if necessary.
***This operates under a ruling Kuulvheysoon made back in the Osteomancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16990117&postcount=76) round. If your DM says that treating Bone Spurs as a single weapon type for the purpose of Weapon Focus, and that having spiked gauntlets which happen to be natural weapons does not mean that you can qualify for Soul Eater with Weapon Focus (Spiked Gauntlet), then choose Weapon Focus (Claw). It’s not a huge deal either way, but obviously you want to choose things which you make more attacks with if possible.

Spellcasting and Meldshaping Spells per Day/Spells Known

Level
0lvl
1st

4th
5/4
3/2

8th
5/4
4/2
Does not take into account bonus spells for a high Charisma score.

Spells Known:
0th level: Prestidigitation (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/prestidigitation.htm)), Message (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/message.htm)), No Light(Book of Vile Darkness, pg. 100), Detect Magic (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectMagic.htm)), Arcane Mark (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/arcaneMark.htm)
1st level: Fist of Stone (Spell Compendium, pg. 94), Blood Wind (Spell Compendium, pg. 33)
Spells at each level are listed in the order learned. Bolded spells are Transmutations, their school being noteworthy for the purposes of qualifying for Osteomancer.

Meldshaping

Level
Soulmelds
Essentia
Chakra Binds

1st
2
2
0

2nd
3
3
1

Level BreakdownECL 5You’ll spend your first levels mostly just swinging away with lots of natural weapons. You start off with a respectable claw/claw/tail routine (possibly claw/claw/tail/tail, actually, but I’m not sure if the soulmeld Dragon Tail (Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060912a&page=4); also Dragon Magic, pg. 84) can be used as part of a normal full attack). As you get your totem bind, Battle Dancer’s unarmed strike, and Multiattack over the next few levels your attack routine gets even more impressive. Something like unarmed strike/4 Girallon Arms (Magic of Incarnum, pg. 68) claws/tail or Threefold Mask of the is probably the best option at 3rd level, for instance. Starting at level 4, you can cast Blood Wind, which is in many ways what this build is built around. Blood Wind lets you attack with all of your natural weapons at range (though admittedly with a short range increment) as a full attack. Eventually, this will get profoundly silly, but for now, it just means that you bind the Threefold Mask of the Chimera (Magic of Incarnum, pg. 90) to your Totem Chakra, and shape the Claws of the Wyrm and Dragon Tail, cast Fist of Stone if you have a buff round and can spare the spell slot, then go to town with a ranged attack routine of unarmed strike/bite/bite/gore/claw/claw/tail/tail and maybe a slam. Your melee routine will lose the unarmed strike and possibly the second tail, but it will still be impressive as well. Hit-and-Run Tactics (learned amongst the Drow if your DM gets pissy about using it as a non-Drow, though it pretty clearly isn’t a RSL and lacks a racial prereq) adds Dex to damage against flat-footed opponents, which is welcome enough, as you needed a decent Dex to take Two-Weapon Fighting, which you pick up with your Fighter Bonus Feat. It’s a dead feat for the moment, but its purpose will be clear soon enough.
ECL 10Two-Weapon Fighting lives long enough to qualify Lucy for Prehensile Tail, then is replaced by Multiweapon Fighting, as she’s now a character with three or more hands. None of this matters all that much until we get the third level of Osteomancer. Once we do, all of Lucy’s hands (which, thanks to Prehensile Tail, means both her regular hands and both her dragon tails) can now stick sharpened bone out of them to be used as a spiked gauntlet which happens to be a natural weapon instead of a manufactured one, and poke similarly natural weapon-ified armor spikes out of her torso.

Ordinarily, the spiked gauntlets would interfere with using claw or tail attacks on the same hand, but so long as you’re using Blood Wind, you don’t care, and get to double dip. Lucy’s soulmeld setup (assuming your DM agrees with my reading that, since the extra arms from Girallon Arms can’t be used as hands for other purposes, you can’t sprout Bone Spurs from them), will still be Threefold Mask of the Chimera (Shaped to Crown: Bound to Totem), Claws of the Wyrm (Shaped to Arms), Dragon Tail (Shaped to Waist). You now have a ranged attack routine of unarmed strike/armor spikes/4 spiked gauntlets/2 bites/gore/2 claws/2 tails with Blood Wind.

If forced into melee, your routine is a bit less impressive, since you can’t double up your hands and “hands” with claw and tail attacks, but it seems by my reading that Multiweapon Fighting lets you use all of your off-hand weapons, even if you have extra ones beyond those corresponding to your hands (in your case, your armor spikes and unarmed strike), so you’re still looking pretty good there.

Osteomancer also gives us UMD as a class skill, allowing us to qualify for the SI, taking the first level at level 10.
ECL 15We’re into the spidery meat of the SI. We pick up a few useful abilities as a result, but the ones that mark the biggest shift are the Sneak Attack dice and the bite attack. The former is a simple enough thing. With a few extra d6 and the bonus damage from Craven on each attack, Lucy’s damage output goes way up against enemies that are susceptible to precision damage or can be rendered so with items. The bite attack can potentially result in a change that merits more discussion. Threefold Mask of the Chimera doesn’t have any language suggesting that you have to choose between the bites that it gives you and other pre-existing bites (unlike various claw melds which all have language stating that you use the larger dice when you have claws from multiple sources, implying that you can’t double dip on claws even in extreme cases like with Blood Wind). It seems to me that you can just add the Spider Bite to the existing bites in your existing attack routines without any serious issues. If your DM does say that Threefold Mask bites don’t allow you to use your spider bite as well, then you can always bind the Totem Avatar instead for a damage boost to all of your natural attacks or look into buying a Wand of Open Least Chakra (Magic of Incarnum, pg. 103) and using that meld to bind the Sphinx Claws (Magic of Incarnum, pg. 88) to your hands instead, so that you’ll have pounce in cases where Blood Wind throwing gets shut down.

ECL 20You get two more arms which means four more attacks (two spiked gauntlets, two claws) on your Blood Wind routine, and two more on your melee full attack routine (in addition to the third iterative on your main hand which is picked up in this stretch of levels). From there, it’s on to Fang of Lolth’s Vermin Type capstone. Assuming either a) Curmudgeon is right, and Immunity to Mind-Affecting does not render you immune to all fear effects, only the vast majority of them, or b) the retention of previous abilities includes the benefits of feats you no longer qualify for, this is a nice neat little way of essentially removing the drawback to Craven while keeping the damage boost. The type change also qualifies us for a Soul Eater dip, which, going by the more commonly held interpretation of how its Energy Drain ability works (that is, that any hit with a natural weapon causes a negative level), is absolutely brutal in Lucy’s many hands.

Beneficial EquipmentThe most useful Item for Lucy’s schtick is a Lesser Rod of Extend (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#metamagicExtend)). This makes a single Blood Wind last two rounds (roughly the length you’d expect combat to last), meaning that you’ll last longer on innate spell slots without needing to also buy Eternal Wands (Magic Item Compendium, pg. 159) of Blood Wind or what have you. It’ll also potentially free up a swift action (at least on the second round) for things like your Clarity of Vision skill trick or various swift action wands (Guided Shot (Spell Compendium, pg. 108), Distract Assailant (Spell Compendium, pg. 69), Grave Strike (Spell Compendium, pg. 107), Golem Strike (Spell Compendium, pg. 106), and Vine Strike (Spell Compendium, pg. 230) are good ones for her off the top of my head.

Since you’ve got the UMD investment necessary to pass for a Monk, and mobility is one of the things this build could use help with (being a ranged full attacker with swift actions frequently tied up), it’d be a good idea to put in some practice with a Sparring Dummy of the Master (Arms and Equipment Guide, pg.137) to at least be able to make 10ft steps in place of 5ft steps.

You’ll likely be using a pretty wide variety of wands and scrolls with UMD, but two particularly useful spells to have wands of are Lion’s Charge (Spell Compendium, pg. 133) and/or Open Least Chakra, as they offer the option of turning Lucy into a melee beast if it seems like the Blood Wind thrower schtick isn’t going to work. A Wand or Eternal Wand of Heroics (Spell Compendium, pg. can be used to snag Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTwoWeaponFighting)) (which will be replaced by Improved Multiweapon Fighting (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiweaponFighting))) to make Lucy more dangerous in melee as well, assuming you have at least a +2 Dex item.

Girallon’s Blessing (Spell Compendium, pg. 106) is naturally also pretty great for Lucy as it gives you more hands, which is kinda her thing. If you can somehow have it up reliably (a few Eternal Wands maybe?), then you can actually save the meld slot that was going to Claws of the Wyrm, though I’m not sure you’ll get that much out of said slot.

While the lack of non-flat bonus enhancements hurts, given Lucy’s sheer number of natural weapons, the Amulet of Mighty Fists is pretty much flat out the only way to go.

For stat increases, the order of priority is Str>Dex>Cha>Con>Wis>Int
Use of Secret IngredientPrerequisites Lucy has UMD trained from level 7 and has it maxed out from level 9 onward. She eventually scrapes the necessary ranks in Decipher script and Spellcraft to get the synergy bonuses as well, though sadly, they can’t be used to help qualify. Still, even if Lucy fails to activate the scarab throughout levels 7 and 8, she’ll have a +14 modifier on the skill check to use a Fang Scarab at level 9 before items, meaning she has at least a 50% chance of making said check, and is very unlikely to fail until she rolls a natural 1 enough days in a row to interfere with her intended level progression. When you consider the possibility of adding +2 for a masterwork item, and the possibility of first UMDing scrolls of spells like Improvisation(Spell Compendium, pg. 121), Guidance of the Avatar (Web (https://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20010504a)), or even something as simple as Eagle’s Splendor (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/eaglesSplendor.htm)) to boost her check to use the Fang Scarab, the risk becomes more or less negligible. The Fang Scarab taking up Lucy’s neck slot is kind of a drag, as she’s a natural weapon user, but even at an increased cost (and actually, the increased cost will mercifully be based on the Fang Scarab’s price), an Amulet of Mighty Fists is a pretty good deal for someone rocking ~16 natural weapons. In addition, Lucy gets UMD as a class skill from a class which is central to her general tactics and use of the Spider Limbs feature. Said class has a BAB prerequisite as well, and two other classes Lucy takes (Battle Dancer and Soul Eater) have alignment requirements which fit in with those of Fang of Lolth.
Skill Bonuses: An extra +4 to UMD certainly doesn’t hurt. It’s a great skill in general, and as shown in the equipment section, Lucy gets her money’s worth out of items put toward making use of it. A small bonus to Climb is also welcome enough, even though ranks are too tight to really invest in the skill, what with getting that movement mode later on in the SI and all. Even being a competence bonus doesn’t hurt that much, as Lucy’s meldshaping setup doesn’t favor soulmelds that can eclipse the bonus, and she has better things to spend money on.
Sneak Attack: Builds that make lots and lots of attacks need a source of bonus damage and Sneak Attack+Craven is just such a source.
Spider Bite: Either expands Lucy’s natural attack routine, or opens a chakra bind up for another soulmeld to improve her combat ability in a different way.
Climb Speed: For Lucy’s normal modus operandi, a climb speed allows her to make 5ft steps (or 10ft steps if she gets a hold of a Sparring Dummy of the Master) along walls. When rendered capable of pouncing via magic items (achievable in a few ways), she can use her climb speed in conjunction with the Twisted Charge skill trick to add an extra dimension to her charge movement (at least, in places where there are walls).
Natural Armor: I’m certainly not saying no to a few extra points of AC. I’m not sure it’s worth it, but you can also potentially get a bit more out of it by using Scintillating Scales(Spell Compendium, pg. 181) through an item.
Spider Vision: Spot ranks are kept up, boosted slightly by Alertness (which is necessary to enter Soul Eater), and Lucy takes the Clarity of Vision skill trick to get a bit more still out of spot. While Darkvision isn’t much to get excited about by the level she gets it, Lucy does have No Light as a cantrip known. In addition to helping her meet the Transmutation skill prereqs for Osteomancer, it lets her create areas of non-magical (and hence penetrated by her Darkvision) darkness around her, which might come in handy once in a while to catch some creatures off guard if they don’t have the ability natively and didn’t expect to need it or you’re simply taking a position beyond the range of their Darkvision for whatever reason.
Summon Swarm: This ability comes too late to really be all that great for anyone, and the swarm doesn’t seem to even count as an ally for flanking purposes. Still, I suppose it might occasionally be worth something as soft BFC to make it harder for enemies to reach Lucy when she’s doing her Blood Wind thrower thing. There’s also some potential synergy with the Osteomancer’s Boneless ability, as it means that both Lucy and the swarm can pass through tight spaces, and with the lack of verbal, somatic, and material components on SLAs, Lucy can summon the swarm even while moving bonelessly through some crack in situations where that happens to be useful.
Spider Limbs: The extra hands give Lucy four additional attacks on her ranged attack routine thanks to Osteomancer, and two extra attacks on her melee routine, thanks to Multiweapon Fighting.
Vermin Type: Assuming either a) Curmudgeon is right, and Immunity to Mind-Affecting does not render you immune to all fear effects, only the vast majority of them, or b) the retention of previous abilities includes the benefits of feats you no longer qualify for, this is a nice neat little way of essentially removing the drawback to Craven while keeping the damage boost. The type change also makes Lucy a non-humanoid, allowing her to take Soul Eater.
Physical Changes: As a Silverbrow Human, Lucy has Disguise as a permanent class skill and a +2 racial bonus to the skill. Between that, a bit of Cha focus, and a +3 to Disguise at will from Osteomancer, she manages a not terrible Disguise mod to pass amongst people who would be freaked out by a spider person.
AdaptationsIf your DM rules that Craven is not compatible with the Vermin Type capstone, then you pretty much need to exit the SI after 9 levels. This obviously means no Soul Eater, as Lucy will remain a humanoid. I’d recommend taking Osteomancer 4 and Sorcerer 2 with those levels instead, which will result in the same BAB and 2nd level spells. You’ll no longer have need of Weapon Focus, so there are several things you might do with that feat slot. If you don’t mind losing a few natural attacks and want Pounce all the time without relying on magic items, then Open Least Chakra (Hands) (Magic of Incarnum, pg. 39) for the Sphinx Claws. Your bone spurs and unarmed strikes are natural weapons, so you can pounce with them. Improved Multiweapon Fighting (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiweaponFighting)) is also an option, but is most only effective if you’re already reliably able to pounce, so I would probably favor Open Least Chakra.

Similar adaptations will also be in order if your DM uses the more restrictive reading for Soul Eater. So long as Craven does indeed work with the Vermin Type capstone, it’s worth it to complete the SI, but Soul Eater really won’t work here if its Energy Drain is just a standard action touch attack. If your DM rules this to be the case, then take Osteomancer 4 as Lucy’s final level, and swap out Weapon Focus, as above.

I considered Martial (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wizard)) Focused (Complete Mage, pg. 34) Evoker (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#wizard)) in place of Sorcerer. It would have saved a feat, but I ultimately decided that being able to dump Int a bit more in favor of Cha and spontaneous casting (ie, at least having the vague possibility that I might spend a slot on Fist of Stone once in a while) felt better.

A flaw or two would also open up feats for Open Least Chakra (Hands) and Improved Multiweapon Fighting.
SourcesSources with exact page numbers are also available at the first time each thing is mentioned, but in the interest of making things easy on the judges, here’s the complete list of non-SRD books used in the build.

Book of Vile Darkness: No Light, Soul Eater
Champions of Ruin: Craven
Complete Scoundrel: Clarity of Vision, Twisted Charge
Dragon Magic: Draconic Soulmelds, Silverbrow Human
Dragon Compendium: Battle Dancer, Osteomancer
Drow of the Underdark: Hit-and-Run Fighter ACF
Magic of Incarnum: Azure Toughness, Totemist, non-Draconic Soulmelds
Song and Silence: Fang of Lolth
Spell Compendium: Lots of spells

Heliomance

2015-05-17, 06:44 AM

Spider-Jermlaine, Spider-Jermlaine!
He can do anything a- look, stop. This really isn't working, is it?

In the Tradition of
The Amazing Spider-Man (http://www.imagebam.com/image/ca3f50409407282),
The Amazing Spider-Dog (http://www.imagebam.com/image/1413da409407306),
and The Amazing Spider-Elf (http://www.imagebam.com/image/e57fc6409407312),
Fang of Lolth Productions Proudly Presents
TASJ: The Amazing Spider-Jermlaine!
http://thumbnails107.imagebam.com/40941/08ce5a409407316.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/08ce5a409407316)
NE Spider ShapeDotU58 Root WalkerD9 Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) 5 / Vermin KeeperU44 4 / Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm) 1 / Fang of Lolth (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207) 10

Name: Tasj
Race: JermlaineMMII131 (Tiny Fey)
Alignment: Neutral Evil
Speed: 40' (base)
Languages: Automatic = Jermlaine, Common; Bonus = Gnome

Ability
32 Point Buy
Jermlaine
Increments
Final

Strength
10
-8

2

Dexterity
14
+6
+2 (@ 16, 20)
22

Constitution
14
-2
+1 (@ 8)
13

Intelligence
14
-2
+2 (@ 4, 12)
14

Wisdom
14
+6

20

Charisma
14
-6

8

Deconstructing Fang of Lolth: The FoL class introduction is all about the Fang Scarab and Use Magic Device (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm). The only specifics about the class are contained in a single line: "a metamorphosis that could eventually turn her into a half-spider abomination". There's nothing about why one would enter the class, or what they would do with the class abilities. To understand how to play a Fang of Lolth the character needs to know their motivation. We'll examine the class in detail.

The Fang Scarab: This magic item has the following features:
It permanently fuses to the creature's neck, occupying that (Throat) magic item slot.
It grants a +1 insight bonus to attacks.
"Nothing short of the wearer's death can then remove it." This might provide motivation for a character to die and be brought back, but FoL Productions decided to go another way.
It's a Fang of Lolth class requirement. (Well, duh.)
Use Magic Device: What should a Fang of Lolth do with Use Magic Device (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm)? The class turns the character into "a half-spider abomination". So what are the characteristics of a Spider?
8 legs. Fang of Lolth has that covered with Spider Limbs.
Climbing. FoL is all over that.
Fangs which inject venom. The Spider Bite class feature grants fangs, but not venom. We'll address the venom issue separately; see Method Acting below.
Webs. We've got a winner here folks. There's no spellcasting of any sort in Fang of Lolth, but with Use Magic Device (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm) the character can gain the use of Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm), casting it from a wand.
Metamorphosis: The character wants to become "a half-spider abomination". That's the essence of playing a Fang of Lolth. Our hero is on a journey to become a Spider. On that journey he'll seek out all things Spidery, incorporating those elements which best align with the FoL driving imperative.

The player needs to be the Spider to act the part. Fully embracing his Spider nature requires fangs which inject venom. Fang of Lolth provides a Spider Bite — only without poison, so it's short of the mark. The Spider BitePGtF176 feat grants venomous saliva: DC 10 + ½ character level + CON mod; initial and secondary damage 1d4 Strength. That's the ticket, but the Devil is in the details.

Spider BitePGtF176 requires Verminfriend. The current version of VerminfriendDotU53 requires Drow. Spider Bite specifies a different version of VerminfriendBoVD50 which does not have that racial requirement. (Neither feat version is of use to the character as other than a prerequisite, because Vermin Empathy is both stronger and more versatile.) Maintaining consistency with the original story but updating it to modern times, our script includes the hero jumping through the necessary bureaucratic hoops to become the Spider, satisfying the current Verminfriend requirement by buying a casting of Polymorph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm) beforehand. (Or perhaps Tasj could barter for the casting instead: Polymorph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm) is a 4th-level Sorcerer/Wizard spell, and he can offer 4th-level Druid spells in trade. We've got room for improvisation.)

Sometimes you start with a big name star and shape the production to them; sometimes you work from the story, to the script, and cast the player who's best suited to what's written. After acquiring the rights to the Fang of Loth story, FoL Productions wanted to stay faithful to the original material. We first shaped the script to that story, and then looked for a relative unknown who best fit the role. Here's how the casting process worked, starting with the script.

Script Tempo: A 3/4 BAB character with Use Magic Device (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm) as a class skill satisfies both BAB and UMD requirements for Fang of Lolth after 7 levels. Of course, an opening act that simple wouldn't make for a particularly interesting story. First act pacing should come close to that goal, while being compelling enough to keeping audience members in their seats. Our leading act ended up running a little long, but we couldn't find anything to cut without the story suffering.

Our Hero's Origins: Everybody has to start somewhere. Druids are at one with Nature, and Spiders are Natural. Druids accept that which is horrific or cruel in Nature; they don't reject creatures simply because they look like abominations. While A Druid reveres Nature above all, some Druids revere or at least respect a deity; we can work the Lolth angle into a Druid character. Druids cast spells, and there are plenty of Spider-oriented Druid spells starting with level 1, so we can capture our hero's fascination with Spiders in the opening scene. There are also some Spider-specific options for the class. Last but not least, Druids don't have Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm) on their spell list, meaning we don't step on the character's motivation for Use Magic Device. Druid is where our hero's story begins.

Building Dramatic Tension: You've got to keep the audience engaged. At the same time, the script has to transition from our hero's humble beginnings in Nature, to where it makes sense for him to take that big step into Fang of Lolth. Vermin Keeper provides that intermediary role. It's very Spider-friendly while maintaining Druid spellcasting continuity.

Interlude: Our hero needs Use Magic Device to get into Fang of Lolth; that's essential to the story. Rogue has that skill, plus sneak attack: a preview of more to come in FoL. And you can't go wrong with a classic.

The Main Act: You've read the original story, and our script stays faithful to the source material. (Or you can buy the novelization, available on opening day.)

Denouement: The final act is short, designed to leave the door open for an Epic sequel. Our hero has achieved his great ambition to become an Amazing Spider. We see him back in his Vermin Keeper job, now much more in harmony with the Spiders he keeps. Everybody loves a happy ending. :smallsmile:

Casting the Race: We needed the right sort of Druid to want to spend all his time around Spiders. FoL Productions looked high and low for the best character for the role, then looked lower still. After many casting calls we decided Jermlaine would be a good fit. The race complements Fang of Lolth features:
Size: Tiny size provides an obvious motivation for our hero to want to wild shape into Small or Medium Spiders, the natural precursor to wanting to be a Spider.
Speed: 40' is an excellent jumping-off place into a PrC which increases speed. Also no racial Climb speed, which would be redundant with FoL.
No Natural Armor: FoL grants a NA bonus, but doesn't add to an existing one.
No existing bite or claw attacks: FoL provides those.
Alignment: Jermlaines tend toward Neutral Evil, which satisfies the Druid Neutral requirement and is also within 1 step of Lolth's CE alignment.
So there you have it: how Fang of Lolth Productions chose Tasj for the role of his life!

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Root WalkerD9 Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) 1
+0
+2
+0
+4†
Concentration +4, Handle Animal +4, Listen +4, Ride +4, Spellcraft +4
Iron Will (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#ironWill)
Wild empathy (racial), fast movement, rage, vermin empathy

2nd
Druidic Avenger 2
+1
+3
+0
+5†
Concentration +1 (5), Handle Animal +1 (5), Listen +1 (5), Ride +1 (5), Spellcraft +1 (5)

Move over stone/rock/earthen debris

3rd
Druidic Avenger 3
+2
+3
+1
+5†
Concentration +1 (6), Handle Animal +1 (6), Listen +1 (6), Ride +1 (6), Spellcraft +1 (6)
Weapon Finesse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFinesse)
Trackless step

4th
Druidic Avenger 4
+3
+4
+1
+6†
Concentration +1 (7), Handle Animal +1 (7), Listen +1 (7), Ride +1 (7), Spellcraft +1 (7)

+4 save vs. Aberration SLAs

5th
Druidic Avenger 5
+3
+4
+1
+6†
Concentration +1 (8), Handle Animal +1 (8), Listen +1 (8), Ride +1 (8), Spellcraft +1 (8)

Spider shapeDotU58 1/day

6th
Vermin KeeperU44 1
+3
+6
+1
+8†
Concentration +1 (9), Handle Animal +1 (9), Spellcraft +1 (9), Spot +2
Natural Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#naturalSpell)
Handle vermin, vermin empathy, vermin form (Small)

7th
Vermin Keeper 2
+4
+7
+1
+9†
Concentration +1 (10), Handle Animal +1 (10), Spellcraft +1 (10), Spot +2 (4)

Vermin form (Tiny)

8th
Vermin Keeper 3
+5
+7
+2
+9†
Concentration +1 (11), Handle Animal +1 (11), Spellcraft +1 (11), Use Magic Device (cc) +1

Venom immunity, vermin companion

9th
Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm) 1
+5
+7
+4
+9†
Use Magic Device +9 (10)
Reckless RageRoS143
Sneak attack +1d6, Poison UseDotU58

10th
Fang of Lolth (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207) 1
+5
+7
+6
+9†
Balance +5, Hide +1, Use Magic Device +1 (11)

Skill bonuses

11th
Fang of Lolth 2
+6
+7
+7
+9†
Hide +6 (7), Use Magic Device +1 (12)

Sneak attack +1d6 (+2d6)

12th
Fang of Lolth 3
+7
+8
+7
+10†
Hide +6 (13), Spot +1 (5), Use Magic Device +1 (13)
Staggering StrikeCA112
Spider bite

13th
Fang of Lolth 4
+8
+8
+8
+10†
Hide +3 (16), Tumble +2, Use Magic Device +3 (16)

Climb speed 20'

14th
Fang of Lolth 5
+8
+8
+8
+10†
Hide +1 (17), Listen +1 (9), Tumble +6 (8)

Sneak attack +2d6 (+3d6)

15th
Fang of Lolth 6
+9
+9
+9
+11†
Hide +1 (18), Listen +1 (10), Tumble +6 (14)
VerminfriendDotU53
Natural armor +2, spider vision

16th
Fang of Lolth 7
+10
+9
+9
+11†
Hide +1 (19), Listen +1 (11), Tumble +5 (19), Spot +1 (6)

Summon swarm

17th
Fang of Lolth 8
+11
+9
+10
+11†
Hide +1 (20), Listen +1 (12), Spot +5 (11), Tumble +1 (20)

Sneak attack +3d6 (+4d6)

18th
Fang of Lolth 9
+11
+10
+10
+12†
Hide +1 (21), Spot +6 (17), Tumble +1 (21)
Spider BitePGtF176
Spider limbs

19th
Fang of Lolth 10
+12
+10
+11
+12†
Hide +1 (21), Listen +2 (14), Spot +4 (21), Tumble +1 (21)

Natural armor +4, Vermin type

20th
Vermin Keeper 4
+13
+11
+11
+13†
Concentration +3 (14), Spellcraft +3 (14)
Extra Wild ShapeDotU25
Extra Wild Shape, vermin form (Medium)

† includes Iron Will (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#ironWill) bonus

Spells per Day

Level
0th
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th

1st
3
3
—
—
—
—

2nd
4
4
—
—
—
—

3rd
4
4
2
—
—
—

4th
5
5
3
—
—
—

5th
5
5
3
2
—
—

6th
5
5
4
3
—
—

7th
6
6
4
3
2
—

8th
6
6
4
4
3
—

9th
6
6
4
4
3
—

10th
6
6
4
4
3
—

11th
6
6
4
4
3
—

12th
6
6
4
4
3
—

13th
6
6
4
4
3
—

14th
6
6
4
4
3
—

15th
6
6
4
4
3
—

16th
6
6
4
4
3
—

17th
6
6
4
4
3
—

18th
6
6
4
4
3
—

19th
6
6
4
4
3
—

20th
6
6
5
4
3
2

Yes, there is a level 5 preview for The Amazing Spider-Jermlaine, even though that's well before the Fang of Lolth main act. Tasj has Vermin Empathy, (enhanced) 60' speed, and (most importantly) we show him wild shaping into a Medium Monstrous Spider. The kiddies will love it!

The level 10 trailer is at the start of the main act. In it we see Tasj now as a Tiny Spider (for dramatic contrast) riding Charlotte, his Large Spider companion/mount, with both of them producing Webs to ensnare their prey. (While the script includes plenty of scenes using a wand of Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm), here we don't need that prop; it's only for his Jermlaine form, to make Tasj Web-capable all the time.)

The level 18 trailer shows Tasj on a Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm), sinking his venomous fangs into an entangled (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#entangled) enemy while simultaneously hitting it with flaming (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/produceFlame.htm) claws. It's a short spot, but ever so sweet!

The final act trailer (level 20) is where we see Tasj in his Tiny Jermlaine body, except now fully altered by Fang of Lolth to Vermin Form. His Spider Limbs are deployed, and he's moving really fast (80'). He zooms into an underground setting, very dark, yet all is clear through Tasj's Spider Vision. He comes across a Large foe and immediately Tumbles into its space. Surprise is on Tasj's side and he sneak attacks, Staggering the foe. Tasj now puts his Use Magic Device skill to use and throws up a Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm). The entangled enemy can't get away, and Tasj uses his venomous Spider Bite and claw attacks to mercilessly tear at the enemy. It becomes helpless when Tasj's venom drops it to 0 Strength — and that's all, folks!

Fang Scarab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207)
spell component pouch
wand of Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm)
Hat of Disguise (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#hatofDisguise), as recommended in Fang of Lolth (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207) class description
Focus for Fire WingsSC93 spell: A golden amulet shaped like a phoenix (worth 150 gp)
Monk's Belt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltMonks), which can be removed and re-donned after wild shaping — a sensible and lighter alternative to BeastskinMIC7 armor
Pearl of SpeechMIC118 lets you speak one language, regardless of form; very handy with wild shape
+1 sickle with Sizing propertyMIC43 lets Tasj use it in normal (Tiny) form or on command (thanks to Pearl of Speech) resizes while wild shaped into a different size
Breath of the WavesMoE130 graft to alleviate fatigue after rage; more convenient than casting Restoration, Lesser (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationLesser.htm)
one or two Wilding ClaspsMIC190 would be handy for any Druid
Production assistance for The Amazing Spider-Jermlaine was provided by the following sponsors:

(BoVD) Book of Vile Darkness:
Spider Hand spell, page 104
Verminfriend (3.0) feat, page 50

(C) Cityscape:
Impeding Stones spell, page 66

(CA) Complete Adventurer:
Staggering Strike feat, page 112

(CS) Complete Scoundrel:
Aquatic Escape spell, page 95
Wall of Vermin spell, page 104
Winged Watcher spell, page 106

(CW) Complete Warrior:
Extra Rage feat, page 98

(DotU) Drow of the Underdark:
Extra Wild Shape feat, page 25
Spider Shape Druid ACF, page 58
Verminfriend (3.5) feat, page 53

Dungeon Master's Guide:
Hat of Disguise (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#hatofDisguise) magic item, page 258)
Monk's Belt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltMonks) magic item, page 248

(D) Dungeonscape:
Root Walker Druid ACF, page 9

FREE D&D® V.3.5 ACCESSORY UPDATE Monster Manual II (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a):
Jermlaine 3.5 update, page 8

(F) Frostburn:
Numbing Sphere spell, page 102

(MIC) Magic Item Compendium:
Beastskin armor property, page 7
Pearl of Speech magic item, page 118
Sizing weapon property, page 43
Wilding Clasp magic item, page 190

(MoE) Magic of Eberron:
Breath of the Waves graft, page 130

(MMII) Monster Manual II:
Jermlaine (3.0) race, page 131

(PGtF) Player's Guide to Faerûn:
Spider Bite feat, page 176

Player's Handbook:
Animal Growth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animalGrowth.htm) spell, page 198
Barkskin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/barkskin.htm) spell, page 203
Bear’s Endurance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bearsEndurance.htm) spell, page 203
Bull’s Strength (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bullsStrength.htm) spell, page 207
catsGrace (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/.htm) spell, page 208
Darkvision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkvision.htm) spell, page 216
Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm) spell, page 223
Druid (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/druid.htm) base class, page 33
Entangle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/entangle.htm) spell, page 227
Flaming Sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/flamingSphere.htm) spell, page 232
Freedom of Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm) spell, page 235
Giant Vermin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/giantVermin.htm) spell, page 235
Gust of Wind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gustOfWind.htm) spell, page 238
Iron Will (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#ironWill) feat, page 97
Longstrider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/longstrider.htm) spell, page 249
Natural Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#naturalSpell) feat, page 98
Polymorph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm) spell, page 263
Produce Flame (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/produceFlame.htm) spell, page 263
Restoration, Lesser (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationLesser.htm) spell, page 272
Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/rogue.htm) base class, page 49
Spell component pouch (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spellComponentPouch) item, page 130
Sickle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#tableWeapons) weapon, page 116
Spider Climb (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spiderClimb.htm) spell, page 283
Summon Swarm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonSwarm.htm) spell, page 289
Use Magic Device (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/useMagicDevice.htm) skill, page 85
Weapon Finesse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFinesse) feat, page 102
Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm) spell, page 301
... and many more!

(PHII) Player's Handbook II:
Animalistic Power spell, page 101

(RoS) Races of Stone:
Reckless Rage feat, page 143

(RotW) Races of the Wild:
Raptor’s Sight spell, page 175

(S) Sandstorm:
Halo of Sand spell, page 117
Summon Desert Ally I spell, page 122
Summon Desert Ally II spell, page 122
Summon Desert Ally III spell, page 122
Summon Desert Ally IV spell, page 123
Summon Desert Ally V spell, page 123

Song and Silence:
Fang of Lolth (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207) prestige class, page 8
Fang Scarab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207) magic item, page 10

(SC) Spell Compendium:
Aspect of the Wolf spell, page 16
Beast Claws spell, page 25
Bite of the Weretiger spell, page 28
Blood Frenzy spell, page 33
Camouflage spell, page 43
Climb Walls spell, page 47
Contingent Energy Resistance spell, page 52
Embrace the Wild spell, page 79
Enrage Animal spell, page 82
Fire Wings spell, page 93
Forestfold spell, page 98
Girallon's Blessing spell, page 106
Kelpstrand spell, page 128
Lion's Charge spell, page 133
Magic Fang, Superior spell, page 136
Primal Form spell, page 161
Rhino's Rush spell, page 176
Snake's Swiftness spell, page 193
Vigor, Lesser spell, page 229
Vine Strike spell, page 230
Wracking Touch spell, page 243
... and many more!

Unearthed Arcana:
Druidic Avenger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#druidVariantDruidicAve nger) class variant, page 51

(U) Underdark:
Vermin Keeper prestige class, page 44

(All names and likenesses are used under license, and remain the properties of their listed owners.)

Tasj is a Spider-size, Spider-quick, Spider-empathizing, Spider-handling, Spider-shaping hero with a Spider's venom and Spider companion/mount, casting Spider-related spells. And that's not including the Secret Ingredient!

Druids have several characteristics which make them greatly overpowered compared to the Secret Ingredient: Animal companion, wild shape, and 9th level spellcasting. Tasj has instead a Spider companion, Vermin-only wild shape, and maximum 5th level spellcasting (achieved only in the final act, level 20). He also sacrifices spontaneous casting. If Tasj had been a full Druid, Jerlaine would have been a very strong choice: maximum Wisdom (with a +6 racial bonus), and you can ignore everything else. However, he's got to make use of Use Magic Device, Handle Animal, Wild Empathy, and Vermin Empathy — all Charisma-based (with a -6 racial adjustment). The total -6 ability adjustments for the race don't help the character. With the -8 racial Strength hit Tasj can barely wear a Monk's Belt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#beltMonks) with spell component pouch and wield a Tiny sickle; another ½ pound and he'd be at his light load limit; more and he'd be slowed by encumbrance. (It's good that Charlotte provides plenty of carrying capacity.) There's a reason the Druidic Avenger ACF, with its rage ability boosting Strength and Constitution (+6 each with Reckless RageRoS143) in combat, was attractive. A Spider does not live by spellcasting alone. That is, Tasj will mostly buff himself up with spells, maybe use his wand of Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm), and then rely on wild shape and/or rage, not spellcasting, for combat. You've got to be the Spider. Despite his base Strength of 2, he can have a STR bonus with just one spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bullsStrength.htm). Weapon Finesse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFinesse) and excellent Dexterity make Tasj likely to hit with all his natural attacks. And what's the point of having a venomous bite if you don't sink your fangs into your enemies?

Very Small Creature
A Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creature can move into or through an occupied square. The creature provokes attacks of opportunity when doing so. In his ordinary (yet Spidery) form Tasj is Tiny (0' reach). He has to bring the fight to his enemies, so he gets there with plenty of speed (up to 80') and Tumble skill to avoid attacks of opportunity.

Free choice among all spells (up to level 5) on the Druid list powers up the character in many ways including Spidey senses. But for a Fang of Lolth, the most compelling power-ups are for combat. In addition to the obvious Spider-related spells, Tasj has choices like Produce Flame (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/produceFlame.htm), adding 1d6+5 points of fire damage to every natural attack (bite plus 4 claws), which could already be augmented by sneak attack. Hot stuff!

Several Druid spells provide a bonus to Hide checks, and a couple directly enable sneak attack damage. Fang of Lolth's granted darkvision will help Tasj sneak attack foes in the dark. But his biggest sneak attack enabler is Charlotte, his Spider companion, who makes an excellent flanking partner.

2 Animalistic PowerPHII101: +2 enhacement to STR, DEX, and CON
1 Aquatic EscapeCS95: take fish form; swim and breathe water
1 Aspect of the WolfSC16 + Animal Growth (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animalGrowth.htm): become Large Wolf
2 Barkskin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/barkskin.htm): +4 enhancement to natural armor
2 Bear’s Endurance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bearsEndurance.htm): Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level
1 Beast ClawsSC25: gain 2 claw attacks
5 Bite of the WeretigerSC28: gain physical enhancements
2 Bull’s Strength (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bullsStrength.htm): Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level
1 CamouflageSC43: +10 circumstance bonus to Hide
2 catsGrace (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/.htm): Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level
4 Contingent Energy ResistanceSC52
2 Embrace the WildSC79: gain blindsense/scent, +2 Spot, +2 Listen
1 Enrage AnimalSC82: use after Aspect of the Wolf (rage loves company![/sup]
3 Fire WingsSC93: fly and deal Fire damage
3 ForestfoldSC98: +10 competence bonus to Hide, Move Silently
4 Freedom of Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm): move normally despite impediments
3 Girallon's BlessingSC106: gain +2 arms and +4 claw attacks
2 Halo of SandS117: +3 deflection bonus to AC
3 Lion's ChargeSC133: gain Pounce (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#pounce)
1 Longstrider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/longstrider.htm): +10 land speed
4 Magic Fang, SuperiorSC136: +2 enhancement to all natural weapons
3 Primal FormSC161: gain elemental characteristics
1 Raptor’s SightRotW175: +5 competence bonus to Spot; ranged attack penalties halved
2 Restoration, Lesser (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationLesser.htm): heal 1d4 ability damage, remove fatigue
1 Rhino's RushSC176: double damage on first charge attack
1 Snake's Swiftness:SC193: take immediate extra attack
1 Vigor, LesserSC229: gain fast healing 1 for up to 15 rounds
1 Winged WatcherCS106: take Owl/Raven form

2 Blood FrenzySC33: grants extra use of rage
1 Climb WallsSC47: +10 to Climb checks
1 Entangle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/entangle.htm): auto-grapple (everyone)
4 Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm)
2 Flaming Sphere (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/flamingSphere.htm): ball of fire rolls about, creating fiery havoc and damage
4 Giant Vermin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/giantVermin.htm)
2 Gust of Wind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/gustOfWind.htm): wind in a line knocks creatures down/back
1 Impeding StonesC66: ground impedes movement, standing, and spellcasting
2 KelpstrandSC128: auto-grapple (just enemies)
2 Numbing SphereF102: ball of cold energy causes HP & DEX damage
1 Produce Flame (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/produceFlame.htm): melee/ranged touch attack for fire damage, repeated up to CL attacks
2 Spider Climb (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spiderClimb.htm)
1 Spider HandBoVD104: detached hand becomes Small Monstrous Spider scout
1 Summon Desert Ally IS122: summon Dustform Small Monstrous Spider
2 Summon Desert Ally IIS122: summon Dustform Medium Monstrous Spider
5 Summon Desert Ally IIS122: summon 1d3 Dustform Medium Monstrous Spiders
4 Summon Desert Ally IVS123: summon Dustform Large Monstrous Spider
5 Summon Desert Ally VS123: summon 1d3 Dustform Large Monstrous Spiders
2 Summon Swarm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonSwarm.htm) (of spiders, of course!)
1 Vine StrikeSC230: sneak attack plant creatures
3 Wall of VerminCS104
2 Wracking TouchSC243: touch attack deals 1d6 + your sneak attack damage

To balance out that flexibility of spell choices, most feat selections are obligatory. They're either taxes
Weapon Finesse (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFinesse): a tax on the dexterous
Natural Spell (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#naturalSpell): a tax on Druids
Staggering StrikeCA112: a tax on Rogues (or others with sneak attack, such as FoL) or prerequisites
Iron Will (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#ironWill): required for Vermin Keeper entry
VerminfriendDotU53: required for Spider BitePGtF176 (and entirely useless to our hero) We would have liked to have added Extra RageCW98 to the feat list, but can do without by preparing Blood FrenzySC33 a couple of times. (It's probably good to have something planned for the sequel.)

All in all, FoL Productions thinks Tasj is a powerful choice for your Spider-loving audience — without being over the top.

The Polymorph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm) workaround to acquire the 3.5 updated (Drow-specific) version of VerminfriendDotU53 feat is not especially elegant. Tasj has no use for that feat except as a prerequisite, so it shouldn't really matter. Production of The Amazing Spider-Jermlaine was otherwise quite smooth. No extra XP was required: not for spells, LA buyoff, item creation, or anything else. FoL Productions was happy to come in right on budget!

If you want the Spideriest of characters, Tasj is your man Jermlaine!

At level 1 Tasj gains Vermin Empathy instead of the usual Druid Wild Empathy (redundant anyway since Jermlaines have racial Wild Empathy). He can cast Climb WallsSC47 for a foretaste of the level 4 Fist of Lolth class feature. Tasj has a 50' base speed thanks to Druidic Avenger Fast Movement, increasing +10' with Longstrider (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/longstrider.htm) long before FoL 10 provides its own (stacking) speed boost. Casting Spider HandBoVD104 turns his hand into a detachable Spider scout. Beast ClawsSC25 provides a couple of claw attacks well before FoL Spider Limbs.

At level 3 Tasj can cast Summon Swarm (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonSwarm.htm), substantially before Fang of Lolth 7. And of course there's Spider Climb (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spiderClimb.htm), a temporary foretaste of what's to come at FoL 4.

At level 5 Tasj gets to wild shape into a Small or Medium Spider. (He still retains his Fey type, but this is real Spidery progress.) For battlefield control he can cast Wall of VerminCS104. Girallon's BlessingSC106 gives Tasj an extra pair of limbs and +4 claw attacks preceding FoL's Spider Limbs.

At level 6 Tasj can apply Handle Animal to Vermin. He's already able to wild shape into a Small/Medium Spider; now he can wild shape into any Small Vermin.

At level 7 Tasj can wild shape into any Tiny vermin. The Giant Vermin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/giantVermin.htm) spell lets him turn a couple of normal Spiders into Medium-size Monstrous Spiders.

At level 8 Tasj gets a Large Monstrous Spider companion, Charlotte. Woot! Tasj teaches this smart (INT 2) Vermin all 6 tricks needed for Combat Riding to make her a war-trained mount (and she can still learn 2 more tricks). As an important bit of synergy, one level ago he learned to cast Freedom of Movement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/freedomOfMovement.htm), which means Charlotte can place Webs anywhere she needs them without worrying about affecting Tasj. Tasj also becomes immune to all organic poisons.

At level 9 Tasj attains 10 ranks in Use Magic Device skill. Now he can use a wand of Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm) in his Jermlaine shape, so his Web use is whenever he wants rather than only while Spider shaped. Tasj also gains Poison Use, allowing him to use mineral poisons as well as organic venom without worrying about accidents. Lastly, Tasj acquires a Fang Scarab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207).

At level 10 Tasj enters Fang of Lolth. He may have over-prepared for the role — not!

Entering into Fang of Lolth makes Tasj's life simpler, better — and more Spidery. The FoL Skill Bonuses feature and a few more Use Magic Device (class skill) ranks mean Tasj can no longer fail with his wand of Web (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/web.htm). After FoL 6 he won't need a wand of Darkvision (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/darkvision.htm). Tasj had no Natural Armor before Fang of Lolth, but the Barkskin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/barkskin.htm) spell he's been using since level 3 stacks with that NA when he gets it (FoL 6, 10). Summon Swarm gives more uses of a magical effect that Tasj has already been using for the last 13 levels, only better: he can control this swarm of Spiders. With Spider Limbs, Beast ClawsSC25 and Girallon's BlessingSC106 spells aren't necessary to gain claw attacks, but they can still supply more, both for Tasj and Charlotte (as a shared spell). Lion's ChargeSC133 Pounce (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#pounce) full attack becomes much more effective, especially with Produce Flame (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/produceFlame.htm) and sneak attack added to each natural attack. Fang of Lolth Spider Bite gets turbocharged with Spider BitePGtF176 feat for a venomous bite attack. Finally, Tasj gets Vermin Type and is the Spider. Polymorph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm) (change type for mere minutes) is like a kid's story in comparison to that Fang of Lolth Sensurround experience.

Heliomance

2015-05-17, 06:48 AM

They're klep-toman-iacs! Lolth is cute and Moro yaks!

Moro Tikka
CE Tallfellow Halfing
2 Totemist/3 Rogue/3 Umbral Disciple/10 Fang of Lolth/2 Swordsage
STR 12(-2) DEX 13(+2)+5 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 14

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Totemist 1
+0
+2
+2
+0
4 Concentration, 4 Hide, 4 Move Silently, 2 Listen, 2 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival
Darkstalker
Wild Empathy, Illiteracy, Low-lightvision

2nd
Totemist 2
+1
+3
+3
+0
4 Concentration, 5 Hide, 5 Move Silently, 4 Listen, 4 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival
-
Totem chakra (+1 capacity)

3rd
Rogue 1
+1
+3
+5
+0
4 Concentration, 6 Hide, 6 Move Silently, 6 Listen, 4 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 4 UMD, 1 Open Lock, 1 Tumble
Weapon Finesse
Sneak attack, trapfinding

4th
Rogue 2
+2
+3
+6
+0
4 Concentration, 7 Hide, 7 Move Silently, 7 Listen, 4 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 7 UMD, 2 Open Lock, 2 Tumble, 1 Disable Device, 1 search
-
Evasion

5th
Rogue 3
+3
+4
+6
+1
4 Concentration, 8 Hide, 8 Move Silently, 8 Listen, 4 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 8 UMD, 3 Open Lock, 4 Tumble, 2 Disable Device, 2 search, 1 Bluff
-
Sneak Attack 2, penetrating strike

6th
Umbral Disciple 1
+3
+4
+8
+3
4 Concentration, 9 Hide, 9 Move Silently, 9 Listen, 4 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 9 UMD, 3 Open Lock, 7 Tumble, 2 Disable Device, 2 search, 1 Bluff
Multiattack
Sept Knowledge, step of the bodiless

7th
Umbral Disciple 2
+4
+4
+9
+4
4 Concentration, 10 Hide, 10 Move Silently, 10 Listen, 4 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 10 UMD, 3 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 2 Disable Device, 2 search, 1 Bluff
-
Sneak attack +1d6

8th
Umbral Disciple 3
+5
+5
+9
+4
4 Concentration, 11 Hide, 11 Move Silently, 11 Listen, 6 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 10 UMD, 3 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 2 Disable Device, 2 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 2 Jump
-
Embrace of Shadow

9th
Fang of Lolth 1
+5
+5
+11
+4
4 Concentration, 12 Hide, 12 Move Silently, 12 Listen, 8 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 11 UMD, 3 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 3 Disable Device, 3 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 2 Jump
Underfoot Combat
Skill Bonuses

10th
Fang of Lolth 2
+6
+5
+12
+4
4 Concentration, 13 Hide, 13 Move Silently, 13 Listen, 10 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 12 UMD, 3 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 4 Disable Device, 4 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 2 Jump
-
Sneak Attack +1d6

11th
Fang of Lolth 3
+7
+6
+12
+5
4 Concentration, 14 Hide, 14 Move Silently, 14 Listen, 11 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 13 UMD, 3 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 5 Disable Device, 6 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 2 Jump
-
Spider bite

12th
Fang of Lolth 4
+8
+6
+13
+5
4 Concentration, 15 Hide, 15 Move Silently, 15 Listen, 12 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 14 UMD, 5 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 5 Disable Device, 7 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 2 Jump
Confound the Big Folk
Climb speed

13th
Fang of Lolth 5
+8
+6
+13
+5
4 Concentration, 16 Hide, 16 Move Silently, 16 Listen, 13 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 15 UMD, 5 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 7 Disable Device, 8 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 2 Jump
-
Sneak Attack +2d6

14th
Fang of Lolth 6
+9
+7
+14
+6
4 Concentration, 17 Hide, 17 Move Silently, 17 Listen, 14 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 16 UMD, 5 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 9 Disable Device, 9 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 2 Jump
-
Natural armor 2, Spider Vision

15th
Fang of Lolth 7
+10
+7
+14
+6
4 Concentration, 18 Hide, 18 Move Silently, 18 Listen, 15 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 18 UMD, 5 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 10 Disable Device, 10 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 2 Jump
Staggering Strike
Summon Swarm

16th
Fang of Lolth 8
+11
+7
+15
+6
4 Concentration, 19 Hide, 19 Move Silently, 19 Listen, 16 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 19 UMD, 5 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 11 Disable Device, 11 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 2 Jump, 1 Decipher Script
-
Sneak Attack +3d6

17th
Fang of Lolth 9
+11
+8
+15
+7
4 Concentration, 20 Hide, 20 Move Silently, 20 Listen, 17 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 20 UMD, 5 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 12 Disable Device, 13 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 2 Jump, 1 Decipher Script
-
Spider Limbs

18th
Fang of Lolth 10
+12
+8
+16
+7
4 Concentration, 21 Hide, 21 Move Silently, 21 Listen, 18 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 21 UMD, 5 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 13 Disable Device, 15 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 2 Jump, 1 Decipher Script
Maiming Strike
Natural Armour 4, Vermin Type

19th
Swordsage 1
+12
+8
+18
+9
4 Concentration, 22 Hide, 22 Move Silently, 22 Listen, 18 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 22 UMD, 5 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 13 Disable Device, 15 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 5 Jump, 1 Decipher Script
-
Quick to act 1, discipline focus(tiger claw)

20th
Swordsage 2
+13
+8
+19
+10
4 Concentration, 23 Hide, 23 Move Silently, 23 Listen, 18 Spot, 2 Knowledge(arcana), 2 Knowledge(nature), 2 Knowledge(Planes), 2 Survival, 23 UMD, 5 Open Lock, 10 Tumble, 13 Disable Device, 15 search, 1 Bluff, 1 Climb, 8 Jump, 1 Decipher Script
-
AC bonus

1-5
2 Totemist/3 Rogue
Moro starts off as a totemist, taking the halfling substitution levels to get hide and move silently as class skills. At level 2 the Girallion’s Arms soulmeld can be bound, giving 4 claw attacks. After that, 3 levels in Wilderness Rogue are taken, dropping Trap Sense for Penetrating Strike, since it keeps us relevant in a fight versus crit-immune enemies. Darkstalker is taken at first level, since weapon finesse requires 1 bab. At this point we already have the potential to do 8d6 or more on a full sneak attack or flank.

6-10
2 Totemist/3 Rogue/3 Umbral Disciple/2 Fang of Lolth
A 3 level dip into Umbral Disciple gives us always-on concealment and Hide in Plain Sight, letting Moro stay hidden at all times. After that Moro begins morphing into a terrible spider-man-beast. A +4 to UMD checks is great, and inches us closer to not having to make checks for using wands. Since our attacks don’t come from our hands, we can actually hold a wand in each hand in combat. Darkstalker and Underfoot Combat are taken to help out stealth, and to get our lockdown schtick rolling.

11-15
2 Totemist/3 Rogue/3 Umbral Disciple/7 Fang of Lolth
We get another natural attack in the form of a bite attack, a climb speed, and darkvision. These are all great for any rogue. It’s a shame the bite isn’t poisonous, or else we could milk it to put poison on all of our natural attacks. The swarm actually provides us a flanking buddy 3 times a day, with the added bonus of the chance of nausea. More sneak attack and natural armour makes us deadlier and slightly harder to kill. Confound the Big Folk and Staggering Strike completes the lockdown combo. Moro can now hide under an opponent, trip them, and use his many D6’s of sneak attack to keep them on the ground. The save DC for staggering strike is around 25 average (5d6 average= 15 + 10).

16-20
2 Totemist/3 Rogue/3 Umbral Disciple/10 Fang of Lolth/2 Swordsage
We finish off the SI, gaining 2 more claw attacks that double as crappy hands. Nice. The fact that they boost our movespeed to that of a large creature is gravy. Vermin type is the reason Craven isn’t taken, but Mind-immune is a better trade since we have a really poor will save. Our last 2 levels are a dip into Swordsage, with a total Initiator level of 11, getting us access to 6th level maneuvers. The main reason for this is mobility and setting up for sneak attacks. For instance, Distracting Ember is a swift action that gives a flanking buddy, and Shadow Stride gives a 50ft teleport as a move action. We also pick up Assassin’s stance. The last feat is Maiming Strike, which lets us do charisma damage in case we get stonewalled by DR or regeneration. With 7 attacks a round (assuming they all hit) and 8d6 SA, we can maim a great wyrm dragon into unconsciousness in a single turn.

As an overview we have:
Permanent concealment/hide in plain sight
Flanking buddies almost at-will
7 natural attacks, 4 hands, and 8d6 Sneak Attack.
Staggering Strike causing all sneak attacks to be able to stagger
Tripping + Staggering Strike = lockdown
6th level maneuvers

Prerequisities:
10 UMD: UMD is the best skill in the game. This definitely does not hurt.

Skill bonuses: Better climb/jump helps out Tiger Claw Maneuvers, and better UMD makes it so we can pass checks with ease.

Sneak Attack: Our bread and better. While it’s at a slower advancement than rogue, it's still something.

Spider Bite: More natural attacks means more sneak attacks. Shame about it not being poisonous though.

Climb Speed: Helps for navigating tunnels and temples if room is limited for flight. A 40ft speed isn’t too bad either.

Spider Vision: Halflings can’t see in the dark naturally. Now we don’t need to rely on torches or magic items, and the spot/search bonuses help us find traps.

Summon Swarm: 3 times a day? Pretty good considering since it's immune to weapon damage and can distract for us.

Spider Limbs: 2 more handclaws is great, especially since they can be hidden with no chance of detection.

Vermin type: Free mind immunity, though it comes late, is a great thing. Moro's will save isn't great, this provides a good way to say 'no' at high levels.

Rogue? Too easy.
I tried many times to make a build without rogue, but every time I tried to do something, the skill requirements killed it. Temple Raider of Olidammara was used in another build stub, but it isn’t a very good class.... Factotum was also tried, but it didn’t get the sneak attack I wanted.

Your backstory is very Kender. Why didn't you use Kender?
I wanted to, but it wouldn't have had access to the Halfling totemist levels, which would've majorly hurt early game stealth.

Why not go back into rogue after Fang of Lolth?
Swordsage gives a bump in sneak attack, and dramatically more utility and mobility. I hate to have 3 base classes, but there's no multiclass penalties from it.

Greed is consuming. For those who walk the rogue's path, it can be difficult to not give into temptation. Moro is once such character. Born a child of the wilderness, he found he had a knack for sneaking into camps and looting precious gems from under the noses of adventurers and mountain tribes. As his greed grew and he coveted everything shiny or valuable, Moro learned to bring out the darkness within himself and shape it into a physical form, to better hide himself. As his greed grew, so did his desire to travel. Everywhere he went, he stole. No guard nor ward could keep him out, so his sack of loot grew every day. If there was a person unlucky enough to be found between Moro and his treasure, you could always be sure that they would not live to see the morning.

Eventually, Moro found himself underground, seeking to raid the drow caravans. He found a small necklace in a locked box, that felt oddly magic. As he put it on, it tightened, starting to strangle him. He fumbled with the activation for a few seconds, before the necklace calmed and loosened. Moro heard whispering almost immediately. Lolth had no opposition to helping someone as cruel and greedy as Moro, and guided him through every mission. As the magic warped his body into something spider-like, Moro embraced it. More limbs meant more arms to carry loot, seeing in the dark meant less gold spent on wands, and swarms of spiders could remove threats from a range. His greed manifested itself even further as well. His claws became covered in an inky blackness that could erode a victim's soul, robbing their will to live.

Moro still stalks the lands, taking anything he pleases, maiming anything that comes in his way.

Penetrating strike- Dungeonscape
Wilderness Rogue- UA
Totemist/Umbral Disciple- MoI
Maiming Strike- EoE
Staggering Strike- CA
Swordsage- ToB
Underfoot Combat/Confound the Big Folk- RotW
Darkstalker- LoM
Tallfellow Halfling- MM1

Heliomance

2015-05-17, 06:50 AM

Just be glad he didn't find any warpstone.

Tchar-Lee Kuh-Lee

N Nezumi Swordsage 7/Fang of Lolth 10/Swordsage 10

Stats (Racial Adjustments in Parentheses)
Str 16 (Increases here)
Dex 14
Con 12 (14)
Int 14
Wis 14
Cha 8 (6)
Backstory
Tchar-Lee learned soon that live as a nezumi was not easy. Nezumi grow to adulthood very quickly, so he had to accept the realities of the world to function in it. His ancestors told him stories of the great empire that once existed, when his people were connected and civilized, and not rooting in the remains of the Shadowlands for scraps just to survive.

His clan wanted better for the younger ones, and so they tried to teach him and the litter-mates the fundamentals of magic in the hopes of discovering talent among them. Tchar-Lee was not so gifted, but he muddled through lessons in fetishes and simulacrum dolls, as well as the elegant magic items of the human craftsmen. In time Tchar-Lee realized that his tutor was himself little more than a novice in the world of magic, and he had taught all he could.

Tchar-Lee spent more and more time learning from the masters of sword and fist, who taught him their secrets of combat, how to move quick as a thought and harness the savagery of his ancestors. In time he grew skilled enough to join the scouting parties to search for resources in the border areas of the Shadowlands.

Tchar-Lee was shocked by the wealth of the humans on the border. Each family had their own house, and many had their own animals for milk and meat. When they beheld the nezumi party bearing down on them, their faces contorted in horror and disgust. They called them words Tchar-Lee had never heard before, words like oni and vermin. They fled their houses, leaving many riches for the raiding party to collect. Tchar-Lee located a small amulet in the shape of some sort of skittering creature, buried in the corner below a small table.

When he got back to the rest of the clan, he spent some time studying his new bauble. There were whispers of…something there, but he had to focus his hardest to make it out. After a few minutes of concentrating, he was able to see an image of the creator crafting the item, speaking to his apprentice.
“This amulet enhances the power of whatever vermin you place it on.”
He was about to say more before the sounds of nezumi calling out to each other in the square broke his concentration, and he could not find it again. After some deliberation, Tchar-Lee tried it on, finding the clasp fit oddly about his neck. He focused on his inner ki, allowing to resonate at the frequency of the item as he had learned. It was tricky, and the frequency of the item felt slippery, far higher than he was used to. After a few exhaustive minutes, he set it aside to resume another day.

Over the next few weeks he practiced with the amulet, trying each time to properly coax out its properties. But it thwarted him each time, the background noise of the Shadowlands taint clouding the whole process and dulling the frequencies. Finally, after nearly two months, the item finally blended its own resonance in harmony with the Shadowlands and his own natural ki. He moved the amulet to his neck, and it clasped itself shut with sudden force. He gave a sudden yelp as he felt it uncomfortably tight against his neck, but at the same time he felt the guidance of the amulet flowing within him.

When his skin darkened no-one noticed, what wasn’t covered by fur was coated in scratches and calluses and dirt, obscuring whatever color it once was. The subtle stretching of his jaw was unnoticed by even him, as it was such a small change from the large nezumi snout that he barely noticed his bite could more easily snap the shin of a cow to suck the marrow out. But all noticed when his eyes changed, swelling and chambering themselves like no nezumi. The elders called an immediate meeting of the clan. All agreed that no nezumi had ever fallen to the effects of the Shadowlands taint, but none could explain what was happening to Tchar-Lee as anything else. When he explained that it had happened after he found the amulet, the clan decided that he had been cursed, by the ancestors who once owned it, or by the god it was a symbol of. They did not need to know to recognize that he had been cursed, and that his ill fortune could ruin the whole clan.

It was with tearful goodbyes but grim resolve that his family and clan bid Tchar-Lee goodbye. They allowed him to take what little he could personally claim, and told him that while they hoped for his well-being, they would never again offer him kindness or compassion in the hopes of appeasing that which had cursed him. He understood completely, and bore them no ill will. He was not so forgiving of the rich lords of the border, who would seek to curse him for taking a petty bauble.

Tchar-Lee kept in his old ways, scouring the borders and the outer edges of the Shadowlands for what he needed to stay alive, but as he grew more fearsome, he grew bolder as new strength welled within him. It must have been a human curse, for only humans would consider greater power at the expense of their looks a very bad thing. Tchar-Lee raided the borders with renewed energy, laughing a chittering squeak as the humans fled from their own handiwork. The cries of vermin were less and less, and the cries of oni more and more. He ventured into the deeper Shadowlands to seek out these oni in the hopes that they were those like him. He found no welcome among the cruel demons that stalked the lands and none that shared his exact plight, though no resident of the Shadowlands seemed shocked at his appearance.

As time drew on Tchar-Lee found it easier and easier to live among the warped creatures of the Shadowlands, still fighting for his survival but able to carry out a conversation with those twisted by curses it seemed few deserved. He grew strong enough to gain grudging respect from the other creatures, and with this came the ability to live in something almost like peace. In time his name faded from even his people’s memory, and became little more than a legend of a creature that struck the human encampments infrequently to demand food in sacrifice.

Legends are slippery and shadowy by nature, and it is unclear what became of Tchar-Lee, whether he became an oni himself, or whether he even existed in the first place. But if you ever encounter a monstrosity that is the worst parts of rat and spider writ larger than either should ever be, you should probably give it a very wide berth.
Build

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Swordsage 1
+0
+0
+2
+2
Balance 4, Concentration 4, Hide 4, Jump 4, Move Silently 4, Spot 4, Tumble 4, Use Magic Device 4
Apprentice (Spellcaster)
Quick to Act +1, Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus): Shadow Hand

2nd
Swordsage 2
+1
+0
+3
+3
Balance 5, Concentration 5, Hide 5, Jump 5, Move Silently 5, Spot 5, Tumble 5, Use Magic Device 5

AC Bonus

3rd
Swordsage 3
+2
+1
+3
+3
Extreme Leap, Concentration 6, Hide 6, Jump 6, Move Silently 6, Tumble 6, Use Magic Device 6
Adaptive Style

4th
Swordsage 4
+3
+1
+4
+4
Concentration 7, Hide 7, Jump 7, Move Silently 7, Spot 7, Tumble 7, Use Magic Device 7

Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike): Tiger Claw

5th
Swordsage 5
+3
+1
+4
+4
Concentration 8, Hide 8, Jump 8, Listen 1, Move Silently 8, Spot 8, Tumble 8, Use Magic Device 8

Quick to Act +2

6th
Swordsage 6
+4
+2
+5
+5
Concentration 9, Hide 9, Jump 9, Move Silently 9, Spot 9, Tumble 9, Use Magic Device 9(2)
Shadow Blade

7th
Swordsage 7
+5
+2
+5
+5
Concentration 10, Hide 10, Jump 10, Move Silently 10, Spot 10, Tumble 10, Use Magic Device 10(2)

Sense Magic

8th
Fang of Lolth 1
+5
+2
+7
+5
Point it Out, Hide 11, Jump 11, Move Silently 11, Spot 11, Tumble 11, Use Magic Device 11

Skill Bonuses

9th
Fang of Lolth 2
+6/+1
+2
+8
+5
Acrobatic Backstab, Hide 12, Jump 12, Move Silently 12, Spot 12, Tumble 12, Use Magic Device 12
Gloom Razor
Sneak Attack +1d6

10th
Fang of Lolth 3
+7/+2
+3
+8
+6
Spot the Weak Point, Hide 13, Jump 13, Move Silently 13, Spot 13, Tumble 13, Use Magic Device 13

Spider Bite

11th
Fang of Lolth 4
+8/+3
+3
+9
+6
Clarity of Vision, Hide 14, Jump 14, Move Silently 14, Spot 14, Tumble 14, Use Magic Device 14

Climb Speed 20ft

12th
Fang of Lolth 5
+8/+3
+3
+9
+6
Hide 15, Jump 15, Listen 3, Move Silently 15, Spot 15, Tumble 15, Use Magic Device 15
Scent
Sneak Attack +2d6

13th
Fang of Lolth 6
+9/+4
+4
+10
+7
Hide 16, Jump 16, Listen 5, Move Silently 16, Spot 16, Tumble 16, Use Magic Device 16

Natural Armor +2, Spider Vision

14th
Fang of Lolth 7
+10/+5
+4
+10
+7
Hide 17, Jump 17, Listen 7, Move Silently 17, Spot 17, Tumble 17, Use Magic Device 17

Summon Swarm

15th
Fang of Lolth 8
+11/+6/+1
+4
+11
+7
Hide 18, Jump 18, Listen 10, Move Silently 18, Spot 18, Tumble 18
Staggering Strike
Sneak Attack +3d6

16th
Fang of Lolth 9
+11/+6/+1
+5
+11
+8
Hide 19, Jump 19, Listen 13, Move Silently 19, Spot 19, Tumble 19

Spider Limbs

17th
Fang of Lolth 10
+12/+7/+2
+5
+12
+8
Hide 20, Jump 20, Listen 16, Move Silently 20, Spot 20, Tumble 20

Natural Armor +4, Vermin Type

18th
Swordsage 8
+13/+8/+3
+5
+13
+9
Concentration 13, Hide 21, Jump 21, Move Silently 21, Spot 21, Tumble 21
Multiweapon Fighting
Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance): Shadow Hand

19th
Swordsage 9
+13/+8/+3
+6
+13
+9
Concentration 16, Hide 22, Jump 22, Move Silently 22, Spot 22, Tumble 22

Evasion

20th
Swordsage 10
+14/+9/+4
+6
+14
+10
Concentration 19, Hide 23, Jump 23, Move Silently 23, Spot 23, Tumble 23

Quick to Act +3

Maneuvers
1st Wolf Fang Strike (change at 4), Charging Minotaur(change at 6), Burning Blade(change at 8), Mighty Throw(change at 10), Distracting Ember, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Sudden Leap
2nd Cloak of Deception, Mountain Hammer, Emerald Razor (at 4), Shadow Jaunt (at 6)
3rd Bonecrusher, Mind Over Body
4th Death from Above
5th Dancing Mongoose (at 18)
6th Moment of Alacrity
7th Swooping Dragon Strike
8th Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip, Raging Mongoose, One with Shadow (at 20)
Stances: Child of Shadow (at 1), Blood in the Water (at 2), Assassin’s Stance (at 5), Hearing the Air (at 19)
Level 5
Nezumi, also known as Ratlings, are a fun race from Oriental Adventures. They have a variety of advantages, the most notable right now is 40 foot movement speed, which means better mobility and the possibility of charging from a greater distance. At early levels the first strike is often the last. Nezumi’s discussion of claws and bite is vague and a bit confusing. I’m not sure if you’re supposed to treat them as natural attacks, or if you just make unarmed strikes that deal lethal damage. I’m going to leave it alone either way. Talk to your DM.

Swordsage provides a solid base to build on. Boost to initiative means you’re even more likely to go first. Weapon Focus with the shadow hand weapons helps make fighting with Shadow Blade when it kicks in. AC bonus from Wis helps out along with armor and Dex, and Insightful Strike lets you add it to Tiger Claw strikes as well.

Wolf Fang Strike’s the bitter pill that we all have to swallow, but you might get a bit of use out of it if your unarmed strike is good enough. Distracting Ember is a great setup for Sneak Attack, which you pick up from Assassin’s Stance. Child of Shadow makes for great sneaking, as does Cloak of Deception, and Shadow Jaunt and Sudden Leap are great for positioning. Sapphire Nightmare Blade is another good way to toss on SA. Emerald Razor is for those tough to hit enemies, and Mountain Hammer is the classic for piercing DR. Bonecrusher opens up critical hits for blood in the water.

Apprentice fulfills the skill requirement for the SI, and the cap stays elevated even after level 5. Adaptive Style is a near necessity for swordsages; it lets you spend your action much more efficiently.

Skills are pretty self-explanatory, keep Concentration as high as you can for Diamond Mind Maneuvers, max jump for Tiger Claw, max Tumble for acrobatic backstab and general battlefield stuff.
Level 10
Two more levels of Swordsage give you all you need to get into the SI. Sense magic will help identify stuff and save you buying wands. Death from Above takes advantage of your high jump mod (even higher with the boost from 40ft speed). Once you get into the SI, strategies change a bit. Permanent Sneak attack means you can switch to other stances if you wish, but Assassin’s will be your primary combat one for a while since it gives more SA and activates Shadow Blade. Bonus to Jump helps with Tiger Claw, and the bite attack is something else to throw SA on.

Shadow Blade lets you add Dex to damage when using a Shadow Blade Weapon in a Shadow Blade stance. You have two solid ones, so it’s very much worth it.
Gloom Razor’s options are all good, most notably the first, which pairs very well with Child of Shadow.

Acrobatic Backstab’s another way to render people flatfooted, and Spot the Weak Point helps to get through tough AC.
Level 15
More levels of Fang of Lolth really pay off. Climb speed lets you move about even more, and when you can teleport onto or up a wall, sneaking gets even better. Darkvision is never bad, and bonus on spot helps with your skill tricks. More SA on the pile never hurts, and natural armor on top of all the other things helps you stay in the game.

Scent is a special, Nezumi can spend a feat to gain the special quality, which is a potent anti-sneak tool, especially when paired with Clarity of Vision. Staggering Strike is the peanut butter to SA chocolate, removing a lot of your enemy’s options without a full-round action.

Your UMD mod is reliably high at this point, so you can stop sinking ranks into it. You can hit the check for wands with no penalty, so make free use of them.
Level 20
Now is when the party really starts. Vermin type means immunity to mind affecting, which is a large portion of spells locked down (immunity to x person doesn’t hurt either). More natural armor keeps your AC up, but what we’re really here to talk about is spider limbs. Each of the 4 can hold a weapon, which means it’s time to fight with multiple weapons. Multiweapon Fighting now kicks in, reducing the penalty to much more manageable levels. There are two potential strategies to pursue with them. The first is hold all short swords (a Shadow Hand weapon) and stay in Assassin’s stance for 5d6 SA on each of 9 attacks (3 primary hand, 1 off-hand, 1 bite, 4 limb weapons), with Shadow Blade tossing Dex onto all but the bite.
The second strategy is to equip yourself with all kukris and enter Blood in the Water. It was a nice stance before, but now with 6 kukris (or a scimitar and 5 kukris) flailing with 18-20 threat ranges each, things will start to stack up pretty quickly.

More swordsage levels bring more maneuvers. Moment of Alacrity can ensure that you go first, meaning SA damage applies. Dancing and Raging Mongoose add on even more attacks, to a potential total of 11 or 13 attacks respectively in a single round, each a source of SA. Swooping Dragon Strike is a lot of damage, renders the target vulnerable to SA, and potentially throws on a stun, which practically locks down a fight since the enemy can’t take action and drops all items.
Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip is the real show-stopper, tacking on extra damage based on how many attacks hit. It tops out at 8 or more attacks, which means you can take your normal full attack, miss once, and still gain that coveted 20d6.
Sources
Nezumi, Scent: Oriental Adventures
Swordsage, Shadow Blade, Gloom Razor: Tome of Battle
Apprentice: Dungeon Master’s Guide II
Staggering Strike: Complete Adventurer
Multiweapon Fighting: Monster Manual
Skill Tricks: Complete Scoundrel

Heliomance

2015-05-17, 06:52 AM

Yo dawg, I herd yo like fangs and Lolth so I put a Fang of Lolth in yo Dread Fang of Lolth so you can Fang for Lolth while Lolth fangs you.

Araignée Spindel Pavouk
http://0.t.imgbox.com/nY4jIKh1.jpg (http://imgbox.com/nY4jIKh1)
NE DarkToM161 Lesser Drow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2) Arcane HunterCM32 Celestial SlayerEoE20 Champion of the WildCC50 Skilled City-Dweller (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) Trap ExpertD12 Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/ranger.htm) 4 / Extreme ExplorerECS79 3 / Fang of Lolth (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207) 10 / Dread Fang of LolthDotU76 3
Name: Araignée Spindel Pavouk
Sex: Female
Race: Lesser Drow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2)
Alignment: Neutral Evil, changing to Lawful Evil @ Fang of Lolth 10 (level 17)
Speed: 40'
Patron Deity: Lolth
Languages: Common, Elven, Undercommon; Drow Sign Language, Abyssal

Ability
32 Point Buy
Lesser Drow
Increments
Final

Strength
14

+1 @ 20
15

Dexterity
14
+2
+4 @ 4/8/12/16
20

Constitution
14
-2

12

Intelligence
14

14

Wisdom
10

14

Charisma
14

14

Araignée Spindel Pavouk was always fascinated by Spiders. The Underdark is full of them, and Araignée would spend countless hours in study. Some Spiders would spin webs and quietly wait for vibrations to alert them to entangled prey; others would lurk in the shadows waiting to pounce when opportunity arose. Araignée decided that if she were a Spider, she'd be a Hunter rather than a Web-Spinner. The idea of getting trapped (in a web, or otherwise) just gave her the willies.

When Araignée reached the age of maturity she rejected her Mother's urgings to observe matriarchal tradition and become a Cleric. She felt that, if Spiders didn't need to cast spells, then she could do without also. As a (barely) acceptable alternative, she instead became a Ranger. But Araignée did it her way, pursuing many non-standard options until her Mother thought she was more like a Rogue than a Ranger. But Araignée had a plan: she would both honor the Goddess and seek out her inner Hunter Spider. Not just one way, but as thoroughly as she could manage.

It's good to be the Spider.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Arcane HunterCM32 Celestial SlayerEoE20 Champion of the WildCC50 Skilled City-Dweller (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) Trap ExpertD12 Ranger (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/ranger.htm) 1
+1
+2
+2
+0†
Disable Device +4, Hide +4, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +4, Listen +4, Search +4, Spot +4, Survival +4, Tumble +4
Action BoostECS47
Favored enemy (arcanists), Spell Resistance vs. Good, Trapfinding

2nd
Ranger 2
+2
+3
+3
+0†
Disable Device +1(=5), Hide +1(=5), Listen +1(=5), Move Silently +2, Search +1(=5), Spot +1(=5), Tumble +1(=5)
Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#twoWeaponFighting)B
Combat style: two-weapon combat

3rd
Ranger 3
+3
+3
+3
+1†
Disable Device +1(=6), Hide +1(=6), Listen +1(=6), Move Silently +2(=4), Search +1(=6), Spot +1(=6), Tumble +1(=6)
Endurance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#endurance)B, Hand Crossbow FocusDotU50
Endurance

4th
Ranger 4
+4
+4
+4
+1†
Hide +1(=7), Listen +1(=7), Move Silently +3(=7), Search +1(=7), Spot +1(=7), Tumble +1(=7)
Point Blank ShotB
CotW Bonus Feat

5th
Extreme ExplorerECS79 1
+4
+4
+6
+1†
Disable Device +2(=8), Listen +1(=8), Search +1(=8), Spot +1(=8), Tumble +1(=8), Use Magic Device +2

Additional action points, trap sense +1

6th
Extreme Explorer 2
+5
+4
+7
+1†
Disable Device +1(=9), Listen +1(=9), Search +1(=9), Spot +1(=9), Tumble +1(=9), Use Magic Device +3(=5)
Versatile CombatantDotU53
Dodge bonus +1, evasion, extreme hustle

7th
Extreme Explorer 3
+6
+5
+7
+2†
Disable Device +1(=10), Search +1(=10), Tumble +1(=10), Use Magic Device +5(=10)
Action SurgeECS50 B
Trap sense +2, bonus feat

8th
Fang of Lolth (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207) 1
+6
+5
+9
+2†
Hide +2(=9), Listen +1(=10), Move Silently +2(=9), Spot +1(=10), Tumble +1(=11), Use Magic Device +1(=11)

Skill bonuses

9th
Fang of Lolth 2
+7
+5
+10
+2†
Hide +2(=11), Listen +1(=11), Move Silently +2(=11), Spot +1(=11), Tumble +1(=12), Use Magic Device +1(=12)
CravenCoR17
Sneak attack +1d6

10th
Fang of Lolth 3
+8
+6
+10
+3†
Hide +2(=13), Listen +1(=12), Move Silently +2(=13), Spot +1(=12), Tumble +1(=13), Use Magic Device +1(=13)

Spider bite

11th
Fang of Lolth 4
+9
+6
+11
+3†
Balance +1, Hide +1(=14), Listen +2(=14), Move Silently +1(=14), Spot +2(=14), Tumble +1(=14)

Climb speed 20'

12th
Fang of Lolth 5
+9
+6
+11
+3†
Balance +3(=4), Hide +1(=15), Listen +1(=15), Move Silently +1(=15), Spot +1(=15), Tumble +1(=15)
Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTwoWeaponFighting)
Sneak attack +2d6

13th
Fang of Lolth 6
+10
+7
+12
+4†
Balance +1(=5), Disable Device +1(=11), Hide +1(=16), Listen +1(=16), Move Silently +1(=16), Search +2(=12), Spot +1(=16), Tumble +1(=16)

Natural armor +2, spider vision

14th
Fang of Lolth 7
+11
+7
+12
+4†
Disable Device +2(=13), Hide +1(=17), Listen +1(=17), Move Silently +1(=17), Search +1(=13), Spot +1(=17), Tumble +1(=17)

Summon swarm

15th
Fang of Lolth 8
+12
+7
+13
+4†
Disable Device +2(=15), Listen +1(=18), Search +3(=16), Spot +1(=18), Tumble +1(=18)
Crossbow SniperPHII77
Sneak attack +3d6

16th
Fang of Lolth 9
+12
+8
+13
+5†
Disable Device +3(=18), Listen +1(=19), Search +2(=18), Spot +1(=19), Tumble +1(=19)

Spider limbs

17th
Fang of Lolth 10
+13
+8
+14
+5†
Disable Device +2(=20), Hide +1(=18), Listen +1(=20), Search +2(=20), Spot +1(=20), Tumble +1(=20)

Natural armor +4, vermin type

18th
Dread Fang of LolthDotU76 1
+14
+10
+14
+5§
Hide +1(=19), Listen +1(=21), Move Silently +2(=19), Spot +1(=21), Tumble +1(=21)
DarkstalkerLoM179
Lolth’s will, Lolth’s whispers, sudden strike +1d6

19th
Dread Fang of Lolth 2
+15
+11
+14
+5§
Hide +2(=21), Listen +1(=22), Move Silently +1(=20), Spot +1(=22), Tumble +1(=22)

Poison use, team maneuverability

20th
Dread Fang of Lolth 3
+16
+11
+15
+6§
Hide +1(=22), Listen +1(=23), Move Silently +2(=22), Spot +1(=23), Tumble +1(=23)

Sudden strike +2d6, uncanny dodge

Skilled City-Dweller (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) makes Tumble a Ranger class skill. Trap ExpertD12 makes Disable Device a Ranger class skill.
†: +2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like effects.
§: +4 racial bonus on Will saves against spells and spell-like effects.CC = Complete Champion
CM = Complete Mage
CoR = Champions of Ruin
D = Dungeonscape
DotU = Drow of the Underdark
ECS = Eberron Campaign Setting
EoE = Exemplars of Evil
LoM = Lords of Madness
MIC = Magic Item Compendium
PHII = Player's Handbook II
RotD = Races of the Dragon
SC = Spell Compendium
SK = Serpent Kingdoms
ToM = Tome of Magic
Level 5 has no snapshot, seeing as there's no Secret Ingredient use possible yet.

Level 10 finds Araignée with a new Spider Bite and a Yuan-Ti Poison FangsSK154 graft to make that bite venomous; she's definitely put the Fang in Fang of Lolth. She's got both a little bit of sneak attack (+1d6) from the previous level and a lot of bonus on top of it (+10) from CravenCoR17 feat. Araignée no longer has a chance of failure when relying on Use Magic Device for wand activation, so her use of wands to enable sneak attack is quite dependable. Her Hide modifier is currently +24, so Hide in Plain Sight is a real winner. Being unseen is both defensively and offensively effective. Araignée can use her rapier and hand crossbow together thanks to Versatile CombatantDotU53 (since level 6); that feat removes the AoOs normally concomitant with point blank ranged shots.

There's no level 15 snapshot either, because it's so close to the level 16 sweet spot. That's where our heroine gets her Spider Limbs. Instantly her Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#twoWeaponFighting) and Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTwoWeaponFighting) feats are replaced by Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsterFeats.htm#multiweaponFighting) and Improved Multiweapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedMultiweaponFighting), and Araignée goes from 5 total attacks (3 main hand, 2 off hand) to 13 (3 main hand, 10 off hand). She'll add sneak attack damage at up to 60' thanks to Crossbow SniperPHII77 (from the previous level); that damage is now +3d6+16 each hit.

Level 20 finds much more precision damage in the mix, with Dread Fang of Lolth +2d6 sudden strike stacking with Fang of Lolth +3d6 sneak attack, and CravenCoR17 +20 bonus damage added to both; and +2 Lolth’s Whispers insight bonus damage on all hits. She's picked up Uncanny Dodge for a defensive boost should she ever be surprised (though that's fairly unlikely). Araignée has a better-than-even chance of hiding even from a Solar, and (if it came to it) one-shotting creatures with Epic DR simply by overwhelming them with massive precision damage repeated for many attacks in a single full attack. That's not going to work nearly as well for enemies who are unaffected by precision damage, so Araignée will emulate the Hunter Spider by remaining unseen (helped by DarkstalkerLoM179 since a couple levels back), and carefully choosing when to strike. It's good to be the Spider. Fang Scarab (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207)
Hat of Disguise (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#hatofDisguise)
Sundark GogglesRotD122 - alleviate Light Sensitivity
wand of Deeper Darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deeperDarkness.htm) - create concealment
wand of Ebon EyesSC77 - see through natural and magical darkness
rapier (at least MW)
5 hand crossbows (at least MW)
6 least Crystals of ReturnMIC65 to draw any MW weapon as a free action
Yuan-Ti Poison Fangs graftSK154 - add poison to an existing bite attack (Fortitude DC 10 + ½ character level + CON mod, initial and secondary damage 1d6 CON)
Spare Hand MIC137 to ensure reloading all crossbows requires nothing but free actions; that's better than having to keep a (regular) hand free
light armorOriginality
She's a Fang of Lolth, and a Dread Fang of Lolth, with a venomous Fang, who worships Lolth. Combining classes based mostly on the similarity of their names may come across as either obvious, or obviously original. We'll have to see.

Power
Quite a few things in this build dovetail nicely, making for a more effective character.

Lesser Drow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2) have racial hand crossbow and rapier proficiencies, which are the main requirements for Versatile CombatantDotU53. Hand Crossbow FocusDotU50 lets Araignée reload hand crossbows as free actions, and she is treated as having Weapon Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus) (hand crossbow). Crossbow SniperPHII77 requires proficiency with a (hand) crossbow, and Weapon Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus) with that type of crossbow, so Araignée is set without needing either Exotic Weapon Proficiency (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#exoticWeaponProficiency) or Weapon Focus (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#weaponFocus) feats. Ranger combat style grants Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTwoWeaponFighting) as a bonus feat.
Special: This feat replaces the Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#twoWeaponFighting) feat for creatures with more than two arms.[/B]
Special: This feat replaces the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTwoWeaponFighting) feat for creatures with more than two arms. Selecting Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTwoWeaponFighting) after Ranger combat style, the character automatically has those feats replaced upon gaining FoL Spider Limbs. The combination makes her full attack 4 rapier main hand stabs (because of BAB +16), plus 5 off-hand crossbows firing twice each: a total of 14 attacks.

Araignée enables both Fang of Lolth sneak attack and Dread Fang of Lolth sudden strike by hiding. She sets that up by casting (using a wand and her FoL Use Magic Device class skill) a couple of spells. Deeper Darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deeperDarkness.htm) is cast days in advance on her rapier tip. When she draws the rapier (a free action with a regular move), the spell's concealment is unleashed in a 60' radius. The other spell, cast on herself, is Ebon EyesSC77, which lets her see through magical darkness and thus Deeper Darkness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/deeperDarkness.htm) will not interfere with either sneak attack or sudden strike. With concealment, an excellent (+35) Hide modifier, and Dark Creature Hide in Plain Sight, Araignée will be unseen most of the time. That's got obvious defensive power, but even greater offensive power because she'll qualify for both sneak attack (within 60' due to Crossbow SniperPHII77) and sudden strike (within 30') most of the time.

The CravenCoR17 feat requires sneak attack as a class feature, and grants a bonus to sneak attack damage.

SUDDEN STRIKE AND SNEAK ATTACK
For the purpose of qualifying for feats, prestige classes, and similar options that require a minimum number of sneak attack extra damage dice, treat the ninja’s sudden strike ability as the equivalent of sneak attack.
Because of this rule, Craven adds its bonus damage to both FoL sneak attack and DFoL sudden strike. :smallbiggrin: DFoL Lolth’s Whispers provide an always-on +2 boost to damage.

Araignée gets a Yuan-Ti Poison FangsSK154 graft at level 10 (Fang of Lolth 3), augmenting her FoL Spider Bite with venom. That definitely puts the Fang in Fang of Lolth! Araignée prefers to neutralize her enemies before they get close (just as a Spider does with its web), but will make good use of her bite attack if foes get close.

Skillwise Araignée is well set. She's got the minimum Balance requirement to avoid being caught flat-footed. She has enough Use Magic Device skill to guarantee successful wand use even with a rolled 1. Her Spot and Listen skills are maximized to avoid being surprised. She's very stealthy with near-maximum ranks in Hide and Move Silently, plus +8 and +6 Dark Creature bonuses, respectively. If she can't be seen, she also can't be targeted. (Evasion and a +20 total Reflex modifier make her relatively immune to non-targeted effects as well.) Trapfinding (via ACF) and Search and Disable Device skills let her find and neutralize most traps without assistance. And of course Tumble lets the character avoid attacks of opportunity.

Finally, with Extreme Explorer's Extreme Hustle Araignée can take an extra move action for 1 action point, or with Action SurgeECS50 she can take an extra standard action for 2 action points. With 17 action points at level 20, extra power is at her command. Taking a move action to get into position and then still having all 14 attacks available is a powerful combo.

Elegance
This build includes DarkToM161, a +1 LA inherited template, and LA buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) for that +1 LA at character level 3, costing 3,000 XP. There's only one base class, so no multiclassing XP penalties. There's also no spellcasting, so no XP expenditure for spells or magic item crafting. Gear requirements aren't nonexistent (and shouldn't be, to make effective use of the Secret Ingredient's Use Magic Device skill), but are modest for a martial character. There's a single alignment shift, of one step, in the build.

Use of Secret Ingredient

Skill Bonuses: Help Araignée always succeed with Use Magic Device to Use a Wand.
Sneak Attack: More damage is always helpful, and the FoL sneak attack damage is leveraged hard.
Spider Bite: OK by itself; better when her Fangs are venomous. :smallsmile:
Climb Speed 20 Feet: More movement options make getting to a hiding place or sneak attack vantage easier. Dark template improves that (all movement modes, actually) by +10'.
Natural Armor: Better AC can be a lifesaver, and Araignée has no existing NA to conflict with this.
Spider Vision: Better vision helps the character avoid being surprised, either by approaching enemies or traps. Araignée already has 60' darkvision, but the Spot and Search bonuses are welcome.
Summon Swarm: A swarm attacking a foe can prevent them from casting spells or otherwise engaging Araignée while she hits them with crossbow bolts.
Spider Limbs: Give Araignée many more hand crossbow attacks, which is a big improvement in combat effectiveness.
Vermin Type: Makes Araignée immune to Humanoid-specific spells like Hold Person (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/holdPerson.htm), while the (recommended) Hat of Disguise (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#hatofDisguise) makes her look like a Humanoid.

The Fang of Lolth class skills overlap very well with the other classes. Ranger ACFs add Disable Device and Tumble to the class list. Extreme Explorer provides the Use Magic Device FoL entry requirement. Even Dread Fang of Lolth, with just 4 + INT mod skill points per level, lets the character end up with 20+ ranks in all of the following skills:
Disable Device +20
Hide +22
Listen +23
Move Silently +22
Search +20
Spot +23
Tumble +23 Use Magic Device comes in with fewer total ranks, as Araignée only needs a +19 modifier for guaranteed success casting spells from wands. (FoL Skill Bonuses makes that possible with fewer ranks, as noted above.)

Fang of Lolth has a good Reflex save, and Extreme Explorer evasion is there to leverage that. Ranger and Dread Fang of Lolth boost the Fortitude save, but Will is lacking. However, the combination of race (Lesser Drow (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2), a natural for Lolth worship) and DFoL Lolth’s Will boost that by +4, into the range of adequacy.

Heliomance

2015-05-17, 06:53 AM

And that's everything! And I didn't even get to make a "fangs for the memories" pun. :smallfrown:

WeaselGuy

2015-05-17, 07:06 AM

So disappointed in myself that I fell asleep this morning instead of finishing my build :smallfrown: It would have been remarkable similar to Araignee though, with Rogue 3/Fighter 2/Assassin 3/Fang of Lolth 10 built onto a Szarkai (Albino Drow). I won't go into too many of the details, but well done to everyone that competed this round! If I make the time for myself, I think I may actually judge this round, since it doesn't seem like that complicated of a batch of entries!

Curmudgeon

2015-05-17, 07:40 AM

Looks like Humans, Druids, and Swordsages were in the mental collective for this round. Feats were more diverse, excepting of course the inevitable Natural Spell for the Druids.

Sian

2015-05-17, 07:47 AM

The idea i was putting around with was something in the lines of a Desert Kobold Totemist 2 (with Lamia Belt) / Rogue 3 / Fang of Lolth 10 / Soul Eater 1 ... and never finalized the last 4 levels (which were going to be placed somewhere between Rogue and Fang of Lolth.

But i couldn't help but feel that it was to similar to my Junkyard War VIII entry

Curmudgeon

2015-05-17, 08:24 AM

I had a couple of ideas that I gave up on:

Lolth-Touched Savage Bard 1/Cleric 4/Seeker of the Misty Isle 3/Fang of Lolth 10/Arachne 2
Rogue 3/Thug Sneak Attack Fighter 3/Shadow Thief of Amn 1/Fang of Lolth 10/SToA +2/Assassin 1

The first build was supposed to emphasize the Lolth connnection, but qualifying for Arachne (Faiths and Pantheons, pages 182-184) was so difficult to fit in with the SI that it couldn't be more than a 2-level dip. The second build emphasizes sneak attack, but the integration with the SI would have to come entirely from non-class elements: race, feats, and whatever. It would either be a character that didn't have much synergy, or one that had synergy but was weak in pretty much every regard excepting sneak attack.

Amphetryon

2015-05-17, 08:39 AM

I considered a pairing with Eye of Llolth.

The Viscount

2015-05-17, 10:30 AM

I must say I expected more entries this round. There's some very interesting directions the builds went in, a few of which I had considered myself.

Deadasadoor

2015-05-17, 11:02 AM

There were three things I poked around with. An infiltration-based Master of Many Forms, which just felt "meh" to me, which I'm now glad I didn't enter. A Thrall of Jubilex used the same idea, but could shapeshift into vermin using the capstone, but that came too late for it to be remotely useful, as well as the skill requirements killing it. The third was a gladiator type based on the gladiator spider, which uses its webs to hunt. That would've been something like 5 ranger/4 cavestalker/10 fang using nets and spiked chains, but I ran out of time.

WhamBamSam

2015-05-17, 03:15 PM

Deadasadoor

2015-05-17, 04:04 PM

I'm sort of shocked that no one went for the Multitasking feat to go with the extra arms. I mean yeah the prereqs are a pain (they were what did in my Multitasking idea) and the rules for how it works are a hot steaming mess of Savage Species, but even so, it's extra standard actions. How did we get through the whole round without anyone doing anything with it? I thought for sure we'd see at least one Multitasking Factotum 8/Fang of Lolth 10/Something or other 2.

I think you said it. The prerequisites are too much. Even if you got the arms at level 18 (assuming a 2 armed base race), to get Multiweapon Fighting, and picking up Multiattack earlier, you'd still have to come up with 2 more feat slots. You could already have the extra arms from somewhere, but I think it eats up too many levels to finish Fang of Lolth.

WhamBamSam

2015-05-17, 04:48 PM

I think you said it. The prerequisites are too much. Even if you got the arms at level 18 (assuming a 2 armed base race), to get Multiweapon Fighting, and picking up Multiattack earlier, you'd still have to come up with 2 more feat slots. You could already have the extra arms from somewhere, but I think it eats up too many levels to finish Fang of Lolth.The MWF line replaces TWF line for creatures with 3 or more hands, so you could take TWF feats earlier on and have them converted into MWF feats at level 17-18 when you get the Spider Limbs. The only thing you absolutely need the arms for is Multitasking itself. I'll agree that qualifying for Multiattack and the TWF/MWF lines in the prior levels is tricky (I couldn't get the feat timing on my idea right without a flaw or ideally two), but I still thought someone would come up with a way to pull it off.

The Viscount

2015-05-17, 05:03 PM

I considered multitasking, actually, but I turned it down for a two reasons.

I was not entirely assured that Two-Weapon Fighting would be transformed into multiweapon fighting the instant you get multiple arms, and you can't retrain by RAW because you didn't qualify for MWF when you took TWF earlier. It certainly says it replaces it for multi-limbed characters, but that isn't enough proof for me (or my hypothetical construction of a strict judge) to take it to mean that if you have TWF it becomes MWF. Assuming it could convert (which could easily cost you elegance points) and improved TWF converts by the same rules, and you gained multiattack earlier, and you have enough points to toss on 15 Int, the second major problem is the line that says "though they are incapable of the fine manipulation required for spellcasting or using Dexterity-based skills such as Open Lock and Pick Pocket." Some might take this as an exhaustive list: no spells, no Dex skills. I did not think I could convince a judge to believe that the claws are too crude for open lock, but sophisticated enough for wands.

KrimsonNekros

2015-05-17, 05:31 PM

Wanted to go in with a Artificer 6/ Renegade Mastermaker 4/ FoL 10, but was haing trouble justifying how the cross setting material, and trying to make her combat viable.

Curmudgeon

2015-05-17, 06:07 PM

I noticed my name in one of the builds, so I thought I'd respond.

This operates under Curmudgeon’s interpretation that not all fear effects are Mind-Affecting, but only the vast majority. If your DM rules that the Vermin type causes you to no longer qualify for Craven, then we have a bit of a situation, unless they say that the retaining of previous abilities includes the benefits of feats you no longer qualify for.
I don't think we actually need to plumb the depths of that issue, because of the specifics of this Fang of Lolth (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20011207) class feature:

Vermin Type (Ex): At 10th level, the fang of Lolth's creature type changes to vermin, though she retains her previous Intelligence score, Hit Die type, and abilities. As a vermin, she becomes immune to mind-influencing effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Not only does a fear effect need to be mind-influencing, it needs to be mind-influencing in one of those five listed categories. If a fear effect isn't labeled as one of those, the Fang of Lolth with Vermin Type isn't immune to it and thus still qualifies for Craven.

Please note that I claim no special authority regarding the D&D rules; I just try to read them as thoroughly and carefully as I can. Iron Chef judges can make up their own minds on this point.

I guess while I'm at it I'll add a couple more observations.

It would appear Tchar-Lee Kuh-Lee didn't see the Iron Chef rules change regarding Oriental Adventures and Dragon magazine. The Nezumi stats are changed:
OA: Str 10, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 8

CON +2, CHA -2
D318: Str 13, Dex 11, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 6

STR +2, CON +4, WIS -2, CHA -4

The reference to Scent as a Nezumi feat (Oriental Adventures, page 179, and unchanged in Dragon # 318, page 46) also has a possible update issue. Dragon # 318 (April 2004) precedes Complete Adventurer's publication on February 5, 2005. Complete Adventurer introduced a new feat named Scent on page 114. The character would not qualify for the updated Scent. (I don't think many DMs would have a problem grandfathering in the older Nezumi Scent, but Iron Chef is devoid of DMs.)

It looks like Nymera may have misinterpreted the Able Learner feat. That feat changes the cost to acquire skill ranks, but not the cross-class maximum. That is, it does not make Use Magic Device a class skill.

The Viscount

2015-05-17, 09:02 PM

Are we to consider Nezumi as updated if only the stats in the monster section were changed? There is no mention of nezumi in the races section at the beginning of the issue.

Curmudgeon

2015-05-17, 10:01 PM

Are we to consider Nezumi as updated if only the stats in the monster section were changed? There is no mention of nezumi in the races section at the beginning of the issue.
There's a disclaimer at the beginning of the article (page 32), saying it's not a comprehensive revision of Oriental Adventures or even a list of errata. I took that to mean that if something was mentioned in multiple places in the book, the article wouldn't update it more than once.

The Viscount

2015-05-18, 12:09 AM

I'm realizing how little I had actually read the OA update.

On page 43 it mentions that every humanoid warrior now has the nonelite array Str 13, Dex 11, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 9, Cha 8. This plus the Nezumi racial adjustments would yield the stats the sample warrior has. Due to 3.0 weirdness it doesn't explicitly call the nezumi a warrior, but it has full BA, all martial weapons, and no bonus feats, so seems it must be a warrior.

Heliomance

2015-05-18, 01:10 AM

A late entry; make of it what you will. I generally suggest some kind of scoring penalty for late entries, but I'll leave it up to the judges how they want to proceed.

Would you be willing to consider a late entry? I had most of it done before the deadline, but then... yeah.

Karluthu Kudgelfetch

http://files.sharenator.com/Tentacles-s550x413-104063-580.jpg

Race: Amphibious Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
Build Stub: Anthro G. Octopus 2/SLT Barbarian 1/Fangshield Ranger 2/Totemist 2/Unarmed Swordsage 2/Soul Eater 1/Fang of Lolth 9/Sneak Attack Fighter 1
Ability Scores: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 8
Ability Increases: Con 15 (4th), Con 16 (8th), Con 17 (12th), Con 18 (16th), Con 19 (20th)
Languages: Common
Alignment: CE
Multiclass Penalty: No.

Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Skills
Feats
Class Features

1st
Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus 1
+1
+2
+5
+3
Escape Artist 1, Hide 1, Spot 1, Swim 1, UMD 4
Apprentice: Spellcaster (UMD)
Darkvision 60', Swim 30', Amphibious (Stormwrack)

2nd
Anthropomorphic Giant Ocotpus 2
+2
+2
+6
+4
Listen 1, UMD 5

3rd
Barbarian 1
+3
+4
+6
+4
Jump 3, UMD 6
Alertness
Spirit Lion Totem (Pounce), Whirling Frenzy ACF

4th
Fangshield Ranger 1
+4
+6
+8
+4
Jump 4, Tumble 4, UMD 7
Track
Favored Enemy: Arcanists, Wild Empathy, Skilled City Dweller ACF

5th
Fangshield Ranger 2
+5
+7
+9
+4
Jump 8, Tumble 5, UMD 8
Multiattack

6th
Totemist 1
+5
+9
+11
+4
Know:Arcana 2, UMD 9
Improved Multiattack
Wild Empathy, Soulmelds: Girallon Arms, Wormtail Belt

7th
Totemist 2
+6
+10
+12
+4
Tumble 7, UMD 10

Totem Chakra, Phoenix Cloak Soulmeld, Skilled City Dweller ACF

8th
Unarmed Swordsage 1
+6
+11
+14
+6
Balance 2, Tumble 9, UMD 11
Improved Unarmed Strike
Quick to Act +1, Discipline Focus (Tiger Claw)

9th
Unarmed Swordsage 2
+7
+11
+15
+7
Balance 5, Tumble 10, UMD 12
Shape Soulmeld: Thunderstep Boots

10th
Soul Eater 1
+8
+13
+17
+9
Jump 10, UMD 13

Energy Drain 1

11th
Fang of Lolth 1
+8
+13
+19
+9
Climb 1, Jump 12, Tumble 12, UMD 14

Skill Bonuses

12th
Fang of Lolth 2
+9
+13
+20
+9
Climb 2, Jump 14, Tumble 14, UMD 15
Open Least Chakra: Feet
Sneak Attack 1d6

13th
Fang of Lolth 3
+10
+14
+20
+10
Climb 3, Jump 16, Tumble 16, UMD 16

Spider Bite

14th
Fang of Lolth 4
+11
+14
+21
+10
Climb 6, Jump 17, Tumble 17, UMD 17

Climb 20'

15th
Fang of Lolth 5
+11
+14
+21
+10
Climb 9, Jump 18, Tumble 18, UMD 18
Maiming Strike
Sneak Attack 2d6

16th
Fang of Lolth 6
+12
+16
+22
+11
Climb 10, Hide 2, Jump 19, Move Silently 1, Tumble 19, UMD 19

Natural Armor +2, Spider Vision

17th
Fang of Lolth 7
+13
+16
+22
+11
Hide 3, Jump 20, Move Silently 3, Tumble 20, UMD 20

Summon Swarm

18th
Fang of Lolth 8
+14
+16
+23
+11
Hide 4, Jump 21, Move Silently 5, Tumble 21, UMD 21
Staggering Strike
Sneak Attack 3d6

19th
Fang of Lolth 9
+14
+17
+23
+12
Hide 6, Jump 22, Move Silently 6, Tumble 22, UMD 22

Spider Limbs

20th
Sneak Attack Fighter 1
+15
+19
+23
+12
UMD 23

Sneak Attack 4d6

Swordsage 1: Burning Blade, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap, Cloak of Deception, Shadow Jaunt, Mountain Hammer, Hunter's Sense (Stance)

Swordsage 2: Zephyr Dance, Assassin's Stance

Evil Drow Wizard, named, uh... Draziwword... um, experimenting on monstrous humanoid slaves... mumble mumble... tentacles! And, uh... Karl goes insane, yadda yadda yadda, strangles evil wizard, finds wonky necklace, tries it on, and... hey, nekkid spider goddess, kewl.

"Sure, I can strangle some more wizards for ya, mistress. What'd ya say yer name was? Lloth... that with two ells? Eh... close enough."

Karl starts off as a variation on a Pounce-barian, but using natural attacks instead of THF. He opts not to go the Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper route, focusing on his natural attacks instead. And, uh... I'm assuming the fluff about the Fangshields are supposed to be good can be handwaved. Or maybe that was a dark time for Karl... those do-gooders really had his head messed up, he didn't strangle anyone for a whole year.

Totemist adds four claw attacks to our full attack routine. Thunderstep Boots adds some [sonic] damage, which is where most of our essentia will be going. Wormtail Belt adds a little natural armor, and we can shape Phoenix Cloak for constant feather fall and a +2 bonus on Jump checks. Unarmed Swordsage adds a few more tricks to Karl's toolbelt, such as Sudden Leap, Shadow Jaunt for mobility, Burning Blade for a bit of offense, Mountain Hammer for swiss army whatever, and Cloak of Deception helps make sure he can unload sneak attacks at least once per encounter. Ruleswise, some DMs may ixnay Unarmed Swordsage or rule that it doesn't grant Improved Unarmed Strike. If that's the case, then instead of taking Sneak Attack Fighter at ECL 20, take ordinary boring old Fighter or Battle Dancer earlier to pick up Improved Unarmed Strike. You lose out on 1d6 sneak attack, but 5d6 should be more than enough for what you need it to do. And finally, Karl takes a level of Soul Eater so that every hit, be it tentacle or claw or unarmed strike, drains a level. Again, some DMs may not agree that the "benefits" of Discipline Focus does not include Weapon Focus counting for prereqs, and thus you may not qualify for Soul Eater. If that's the case, consider replacing Swordsage 2 with Psychic Warrior 2, or try Fighter/Battle Dancer to pick up Weapon Focus and Improved Unarmed Strike.

At 15th level, Karl picks up Maiming Strike, and this is where he becomes truly frightening. Not only does he have 14 attacks (three unarmed strikes, six tentacles, four claws, one bite) that all inflict Eneregy Drain, but they now all deal 2 Charisma damage (using Assassin's Stance for an additional +2d6 sneak attack), and 12 of those attacks are at full BAB thanks to Improved Multiattack. On a charge, every attack gets +3d4 [sonic] damage and a save vs. stun thanks to Thunderstep Boots. Everything after this just adds more of what he already does so well.

Karl gains another four claw attacks, bringing his number of attacks to 18. He also picks up some more sneak attack, opting to take Sneak Attack Fighter for a level rather than the Fang of Lolth capstone. This means his sneak attacks now deal 3 Charisma damage. (There's probably a really neat trick that involves gaining the Vermin type, followed by a template that switches your type to Magical Beast, but I didn't find it.)

Use of the Secret Ingredient:

Skill Bonuses: The +2 Jump is useful, particularly for jumping over obstacles when Karl charges, which should be pretty often. Climb... not so much once you have a Climb speed, but better than a poke in the eye. The +4 on UMD, in addition to being all-around awesome, allows Karl to UMD a Sparring Dummy of the Master at ECL 13, which makes his 5' steps count for 10'.

Sneak Attack: Karl uses this quite a bit, converting it to Charisma damage via Maiming Strike or saves vs. stagger with Staggering Strike. Stacking Assassin's Stance allows him to drain more Charisma, and Cloak of Deception makes sure he gets at least one round per encounter where he can unload on his victim. I didn't feel Craven was necessary, as Karl prefers Soul Eating and Charisma damage over DPS.

Spider Bite: Ok, this doesn't really add much, as Karl already had a bite attack, but the unhinging jaw means he can eat much larger sandwiches.

Climb Speed: Karl doesn't have a natural fly speed, but the ability to walk on walls and ceilings while underground or inside is almost as good. Combining this with Shadow Jaunt allows him to teleport up to the ceiling to set up ambushes from unusual directions.

Spider Vision: Karl already has Darkvision 60' due to Anthropomorphic Animal, but the +4 untyped bonus to Spot and Search checks is pretty useful, particularly after using Hunter's Sense to detect invisible creatures.

Summon Swarm: This comes in too late to be all that effective, but I love this spell. It's a BFC, direct damage (no save), and a debuffer (nausea) all wrapped up into a single spell.

Spider Limbs: This is Karl's "capstone", an additional four claw attacks, which brings him up to 18 natural attacks on a pounce. If everything hits, he could deal up to 54 points of Charisma damage.

Book of Vile Darkness: Soul Eater
Champions of Valor: Fangshield Ranger
Cityscape Web Enhancement: Skilled City-Dweller ACF (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
Complete Adventurer: Staggering Strike
Complete Champion: Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian
Complete Mage: Arcane Hunter ACF
Exemplars of Evil: Maiming Strike
Magic of Incarnum: Totemist, Shape Soulmeld, Open Least Chakra
Savage Species: Improved Multiattack, Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus
Stormwrack: Amphibious Template
Tome of Battle: Unarmed Swordsage Variant
Unearthed Arcana: Sneak Attack Fighter, Whirling Frenzy ACF

Sian

2015-05-18, 02:51 AM

on Multitasking, might it be easier to shallow if you're starting with a (Non-psionic) Thri-Kreen? so you could start with notching off the feats from the beginning

WhamBamSam

2015-05-18, 03:14 AM

on Multitasking, might it be easier to shallow if you're starting with a (Non-psionic) Thri-Kreen? so you could start with notching off the feats from the beginningI did consider Thri-Kreen, but it didn't work out with the combo that I wanted to do with Multitasking. It has some overlap with my other build, but I'll post the version of the stub with flaws (the one that functions) after the final reveal.

Thurbane

2015-05-18, 06:33 AM

Nymera: Lolth Touched Human Druid 9/FoL 10 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19265649&postcount=70)
Robin Zarantyr: Human Druid 9/Human Paragon 1/FoL 10 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19265654&postcount=71)
Lucy "Legs" Silvertail: Silverbrow Human Totemist 2/Battle Dancer 1/Sorcerer 1/Hit-and-Run Fighter 2/Osteomancer 3/FoL 10/Soul Eater 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19265663&postcount=72)
Tasj: Jermlaine Spider Shape Root Walker Druidic Avenger 5/Vermin Keeper 4/Rogue 1/FoL 10 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19265665&postcount=73)
Moro Tikka: Tallfellow Halfling Totemist 2/Rogue 3/Umbral Disciple 3/FoL 10/Swordsage 2 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19265670&postcount=74)
Tchar-Lee Kuh-Lee: Nezumi Swordsage 10/FoL 10 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19265673&postcount=75)
Araignée Spindel Pavouk: Dark Lesser Drow Arcane Hunter Celestial Slayer Champion of the Wild Skilled City Dweller Trap Expert Ranger 4/Extreme Explorer 3/FoL 10/Dread Fang of Lolth 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19265675&postcount=76)
Karluthu Kudgelfetch: Amphibious Anthropomorphic Giant Octopus Barbarian 1/Fangshield Ranger 2/Totemist 2/Unarmed Swordsage 2/Soul Eater 1/FoL 9/Sneak Attack Fighter 1 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=19269288&postcount=94)

...if there was an honourable mention category for most ACFs on one class, I know who I'd pick :smalltongue:

Darrin

2015-05-18, 07:24 AM

The MWF line replaces TWF line for creatures with 3 or more hands, so you could take TWF feats earlier on and have them converted into MWF feats at level 17-18 when you get the Spider Limbs. The only thing you absolutely need the arms for is Multitasking itself. I'll agree that qualifying for Multiattack and the TWF/MWF lines in the prior levels is tricky (I couldn't get the feat timing on my idea right without a flaw or ideally two), but I still thought someone would come up with a way to pull it off.

I fiddled around with a build that had all the MWF feats and Cave Stalker 4 to unload a metric buttload of one-handed spiked chain attacks, but I abandoned it because it just didn't do anything all that interesting with the spiked chains. Then I thought "Palm Throw!", but you only get sneak attack on the first hit, so that seemed like a waste. The issue I have with Improved MWF and Greater MWF is the BAB requirements don't match the 3.5 versions of TWF. Improved MWF requires BAB +9, and Greater MWF requires +15, so... if I were using Ranger levels to get Improved MWF, do I get it at BAB +6, or do I have to wait until BAB +9?

It didn't occur to me to add Multitasking, mostly because I was so focused on full attacks with all those spiked chains. I guess my problem would be... assuming we have the handwave that partial actions = standard actions, what do you *DO* with those extra standard actions? I like the Factotum idea, but if you spam Cunning Surge/Cunning Strike, all those MWF feats are dead weight. Spellcasting is problematic because of the note about the actions "occur simultaneously", so you'd need multiple heads + Multivoice, but last time I tried that was Acolyte of the Ego, and that was too many headaches (pun intended). Activating wands, ok, maybe something with Dual Wand Wielder, but that makes the build a little too dependent on equipment.

My other idea was a two-headed Lumi, but I wasn't sure what to do with it other than constantly removing the Fang Scarab just to piss off Lolth.

Curmudgeon

2015-05-18, 07:58 AM

The issue I have with Improved MWF and Greater MWF is the BAB requirements don't match the 3.5 versions of TWF. Improved MWF requires BAB +9, and Greater MWF requires +15, so... if I were using Ranger levels to get Improved MWF, do I get it at BAB +6, or do I have to wait until BAB +9?
You have to meet the prerequisites both to select feats and to use them. That applies even if the feats get changed to something else with different prerequisites. You end up needing to meet the higher DEX requirements of the TWF line to take those feats, then you may have to wait until you meet the BAB requirements of the replaced multiweapon feats.

dysprosium

2015-05-18, 09:19 AM

As per usual lately I didn't get to enter mine (and it was no where near finished either).

I was going for some kind of Venom (the Spiderman villain) analog: stub was Warlock 9/Fang of Lolth 9/Heir of Siberys 2. Things were going to be spider themed. End result would have (hopefully) resembled the Venom figure from Disney Infinity 2.0.

Maybe it was because I was focused on my own build that I am surprised about the entries that did get entered.

Curmudgeon

2015-05-18, 05:09 PM

With a modest number of entries, and a lot of posts about possible entries that didn't get submitted, we should have several people available for judging, right?

Right? :smallsmile:

OMG PONIES

2015-05-18, 09:30 PM

With a modest number of entries, and a lot of posts about possible entries that didn't get submitted, we should have several people available for judging, right?

Right? :smallsmile:

I'm especially tempted to this round...

Heliomance

2015-05-22, 03:39 AM

Any word from our wonderful judgey people?

OMG PONIES

2015-05-23, 04:23 AM

Any word from our wonderful judgey people?

Today's word of the day is "orange." Judging 50% complete, captain.

The Viscount

2015-05-26, 01:46 PM

Brought to you by the letter "U" and the number "8".

Heliomance

2015-05-30, 04:48 AM

It's been very quiet here and in the Home Cooking thread. Would it be helpful to extend both deadlines by a week?

samduke

2015-05-30, 05:32 AM

was there even a judge for this?

Heliomance

2015-05-30, 10:38 AM

No-one confirmed, I think. I'm hoping Ponies is still willing to step up.

WeaselGuy

2015-05-30, 10:40 AM

was there even a judge for this?

I was going to, but I'm being transferred to Qatar in the near future, so my free time just evaporated exponentially :smallfrown:

KrimsonNekros

2015-05-30, 04:18 PM

I think extending the deadline would be good in both cases.

Deadasadoor

2015-05-30, 11:53 PM

A deadline extension would work for me. I've started, but I haven't really felt like sitting down and actually doing the write up.

Heliomance

2015-05-31, 03:59 AM

An extra week it is!

OMG PONIES

2015-05-31, 04:09 PM

It's been very quiet here and in the Home Cooking thread. Would it be helpful to extend both deadlines by a week?
Yes please!

No-one confirmed, I think. I'm hoping Ponies is still willing to step up.
I think my white text before was too subtle...

Today's word of the day is "orange." Judging 50% complete, captain.

An extra week it is!

Sweet, thanks!

Heliomance

2015-06-05, 03:52 AM

I've got nine classes in my list of SIs for upcoming contests - I don't know how to choose which one to do next!

Sian

2015-06-05, 04:30 AM

Roll a d10, and if a 0, take it as an order to find another one :smallbiggrin:

Darrin

2015-06-05, 05:31 AM

Or roll 2d6.

1
2
3
4
5
6

1
1
1
2
2
3
3

2
1
1
2
2
3
3

3
4
4
5
5
6
6

4
4
4
5
5
6
6

5
7
7
8
8
9
9

6
7
7
8
8
9
9

OMG PONIES

2015-06-05, 05:53 AM

or, you know, a d9. Oh, also, I'm 75% done judging.

Thurbane

2015-06-05, 06:32 PM

or, you know, a d9. Oh, also, I'm 75% done judging.

I've got a d7, but no d9.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41kmuwpTG4L.jpg

OMG PONIES

2015-06-06, 07:10 AM

And away we go!
My Criteria
Each entry will start at a base score of 12 (3 in each category), with deductions or bonuses awarded based on the following questions:

Originality:
Does the entry present a compelling backstory, concept, or theme aside from the mechanics of the build?
Does the entry enter the Secret Ingredient through a method unique from the sample character in the source as well as other entries in this round?
Does the entry make use of any unique mechanical tricks/feat chains?
Does the entry avoid known cheese and overused optimization suggestions?
Power:
Does the entry surpass a hypothetical build that continues in the base class used for qualification (i.e. does the entry follow established breakpoints for base classes or make a compelling case for the breakpoint selected)?
Does the entry function at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on "nova" powers or limited resources?
Does the entry thrive without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other "add-ons" for its power?
Does the entry contribute significantly in terms of offense, defense, and utility? Here an answer of "No" denotes that the build thrives in one or fewer of those three categories, "yes and no" denotes that the build thrives in two of those three categories, and "yes" denotes that the build wins the elusive triple crown--pulling its weight in terms of all three of those categories.
Elegance:
Does the entry qualify for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient?
Does the entry qualify for all feats and skill tricks taken?
Does the entry avoid reliance on any questionable rules interpretations, as well as providing a list of source material while avoiding cross-setting material or material specifically disallowed from this competition?
Does the entry avoid multi-class penalties and dipping* more than once?
UoSI:
Does the entry qualify for the Secret Ingredient and make use of all entry requirements?
Does the entry complete the Secret Ingredient or present a compelling reason why not doing so is actually a better use of the Secret Ingredient?
Does the entry synergize the unique mechanical abilities of the Secret Ingredient with the rest of the build and/or present a novel use of said mechanical abilities?
Does the entry complement the background, concept, or theme of its chassis through use of the Secret Ingredient?
*Where "dipping" is defined as taking two or fewer levels in a base class or prestige class.
Each of the questions above can be answered in one of three ways. A straight "yes" will earn a +0.5 bonus to the category in question. A straight "no" will suffer a -0.5 penalty to the category, and an ambivalent "yes and no" will wash out with no adjustment to the category. Other scoring rules (like a flat -1 penalty per Flaw used, for instance) will be followed as requested by the Chairperson in the thread. If there are any questions about the clarity of my criteria in general, please post them openly so I can address. If there are any disagreements with particular scores, please PM the chairperson as part of the regular dispute process.

My Scores
Nymera: 10.5 (2.625 average)Originality: 1 Since "tormented orphan" is a standard trope in fantasy literature, presenting one would require more immersion into the character (-0.5). While I appreciate the inclusion of the Lolth-Touched template given the fluff of the Secret Ingredient, we had more than one person use druid, and 2 of you actually went druid 9 (-0.5). Nothing mechanically unique was at play here (-0.5). The Lolth-Touched template is often suggested for its quick bumps to STR and CON, while the Assume Supernatural Ability chain & Fleshraker dinosaur companions have been used quite a bit. Instead, it would have been nice to see you stick to your spider theme. No penalty here for Natural Spell (since it's basically a druid's feat tax), but nothing deviated from the usual suggestions here (-0.5).Power: 2 There's not much that's better than continued druid casting. If you're going to give up a tier 1 class, it had better be for something pretty darn sweet. Here, I'm not convinced it was worth bailing out (-0.5). With 3 uses of Wild Shape and only a handful of spells each day, you're going to find yourself severely hampered when you're left with naught but your Fang of Lolth class features (-0.5). While we're using a template, it's not really doing much but giving you a boost to physical stats. Should your DM disallow it, you'd still be practically the same so we'll call this a wash (0). Offensively, the move into Fang of Lolth leaves your BAB, spells, and animal companion all lagging (even with natural bond). Defensively, you don't have too many options. When it comes to utility, though, you've got a useful mix of skills as well as the bottomless toolchest that is Wild Shape at your disposal. It's just a shame that the entry only shines in 1 out of 3 categories. Granted, 9 levels of druid casting is enough in its own right to give each of these categories a slight bump, so we'll call it a wash as it still lags behind in usefulness vs continued casting (0).Elegance: 4.5 The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5). Unless I'm missing something, your normal form does not have a natural attack. Rather than commencing a discussion about whether a druid's wild shape forms qualify it for improved natural attack sometimes, I'm calling this one a wash (0). The build avoids reliance on questionable rules interpretations, cross-setting material, or material specifically disallowed from this competition (0.5). The build avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping (0.5).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3 The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by maxing UMD (0.5). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). No special treatment of the secret ingredient's features were provided, so it was hard to see any unique synergies in this class not seen elsewhere in the competition (-0.5). All I can tell from the write-up is that Nymera was tainted by Lolth since birth. A little bit more would have helped to cement her place as a Fang of Lolth (-0.5).
Robin Zarantyr: 15.5 (3.875 average)Originality: 4 I liked your perspective on the Ashbound allowing destruction to pave the way for greater growth…I've never seen a PC take that angle before (0.5). While I appreciate the inclusion of a splash in human paragon, the race itself is neither earning nor costing you any points. We had more than one person use druid, though, and two of you even went druid 9 (-0.5). It was really cool to see Child of Winter, Vermin Shape, & Spiderfriend Magic used, given the spider theme! Savage grapple was a new one for me as well (0.5). The build avoids known cheese and overused optimization suggestions (0.5).Power: 2.5 There's not much that's better than continued druid casting. If you're going to give up a tier 1 class, it had better be for something pretty darn sweet. Here, I'm not convinced it was worth bailing out (-0.5). With 3 uses of Wild Shape and only a handful of spells each day, you're going to find yourself severely hampered when you're left with naught but your Fang of Lolth class features (-0.5). The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5). Offensively, you present a good trick but lack the spells to make yourself & companion beefy enough to be a threat at high levels. Defensively, you've protected yourself nicely against your own spells but it doesn't give you much against the enemy. In terms of utility, you've got Wild Shape which is great and a smattering of skills, but I would have liked to see some more focus. Still, 9 levels of druid casting is nothing to sneeze at since it can boost all three of these areas. Overall, we'll call it a wash (0).Elegance: 4.5 The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5). The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5). We avoid questionable rulings and I like the way you wove this character into the folklore of Eberron, but it still clashes settings with Drow of the Underdark (0). The build avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping (0.5).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4.5 The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by maxing UMD. I particularly like your elegant solution of using human paragon to make it forever a class skill (0.5). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). I really love how you combined Child of Winter/Spiderfriend Magic with the vermin type granted by the Secret Ingredient, but I just wish I had seen other synergies of the same caliber presented with other class features along the way (0). Given Robin's tale, his progression into the Secret Ingredient made sense as a part of his path. Again, I really like the way you paid careful attention to weaving in the lore of Eberron rather than simply snagging the feats and giving us a non-specific background (0.5).
Lucy "Legs" Silvertail: 13.5 (3.375 average)Originality: 3 I like the picture of a woman who already considers herself a monstrosity before entering the class (0.5). While your subrace and a few prestige class splashes were nice to see, none of them really lasted long enough to give you a different flavor. Instead, we're bogged down by the repeated splashes into fighter, totemist, and soul eater (-0.5). I'd never actually seen someone use Prehensile Tail to beef up their Multiweapon Fighting (0.5). Most of the suggestions used come straight from natural weapon handbooks and suggestion threads--as I found myself when I shamelessly used the same tactics for Billows the Beardragon, my entry in a recent Junkyard Wars thread focused on incarnum & natural weapons (-0.5).Power: 2.5 This one's tough, as the chassis has so many different elements it's hard to identify the core of the build. Proper power breakpoints are used for totemist, battle dancer, fighter, and soul eater, but more osteomancer or Sorcerer would have meant more spellcasting, which was really the star of the show here. Because of the proper breakpoints on the other things, I'll call this a wash (0). I would have liked to see the ability to cast spells like Fist of Stone and Blood Wind more as they were the cornerstone of your build. While you mention picking up some wands later on, your casting is admittedly too light to function as a primary tactic (-0.5). Don't get me wrong, I understand that the class requires an item to enter and has UMD as a requirement, so I'm expecting some items this round. It's when you talk about using items to ensure you can make the check needed to enter the Secret Ingredient that my confidence was a little shaken. It's a smart tactic, but not one all DMs would allow, so I can't award full points here. I don't want to take any away, though, so let's call this a wash (0). Since you've proven you're capable of activating the Fang Scarab without items and they're just a nice insurance policy, you earn full points here (+0.5). Offensively, you're all about getting natural attacks and bonus damage to boot via Drow Fighter & Craven. When it comes to defense & utility, though, there just wasn't enough room left in the build to provide solid focus. I have no doubt that Lucy can contribute when something needs killing, but I'm not sure if she has a party role aside from that (-0.5).Elegance: 3 I'm going to be that guy--there's a story requirement to Soul Eater that wasn't mentioned in the build. To award points for Elegance, I'd at least like to see that mentioned (0). The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5). We've got some questionable rules interpretations here, particularly keeping Craven while being immune to mind-affecting effects and the oft-cited "Soul Eater lets all natural attacks deal negative levels." I'm in the camp labeled as "more restrictive" (though I'd just call it the RAW for natural weapons). I appreciate that you provided adaptation sections for questionable rules interpretations, but that you had to include them meant you anticipated some contention. Also, in one section you mentioned making 2 bite attacks, but the SRD section on natural weapons stipulates that a creature is allowed one bite attack. Rather than going back and forth, since we avoided cross-setting material or disallowed material I'll call this a wash (0). While multiclass penalties were avoided, dipping in four base classes and one PrC (with another at only 3 levels) seemed a bit egregious (-0.5).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 5 The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by maxing UMD. I also appreciated your treatment of how you'd ensure a successful check and other uses for UMD (0.5). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). I like that all class features of the SI received some unique synergy! Particularly fun was the Boneless Lucy squeezed into a crack in the wall summoning swarms (0.5). Using the moment Lucy decided to become a Fang of Lolth for her backstory was a great way to see how she viewed this as just one more step in her continued mutation (0.5).
The Amazing Spider-Jermlaine: 13.5 (3.375 average)Originality: 3 Your overall structure had me chuckling the whole time, but I appreciate that you gave us a glimpse into the character's motivation instead of just sticking to the mechanics (0.5). The druid and rogue splashes were repeated by others this round, but luckily you shook things up on your druid chassis. Also, your use of a unique (though frequently suggested) race and a good vermin-themed PrC helped to earn back some points, so we'll call this a wash (0). I really liked your vermin-themed feats and spells, to the point that I wouldn't have minded if some of the more standard fare like Staggering Strike & Natural Spell had been eschewed in favor of more spiderstuff (0). While I like your rationale behind the use of jermlaine, I've seen that pesky little fey more times than I can shake a stick at being suggested for druid builds. And while I wouldn't call Staggering Strike a feat tax in the same vein as Natural Spell, I would call it a frequent suggestion in rogue handbooks and op threads (-0.5).Power: 3.5 When you give up druid spellcasting, you'd better be doing it for something even better. Here, you gave it up for very specific things that fit the theme, but I wonder if you could have kept the theme alive by sticking with Vermin Keeper until the end (also getting fun stuff like swarm shape and huge vermin shape) (-0.5). The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5). The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5). Offensively, Staggering Strike is only as good as the damage you deal. Unfortunately, we don't have much focus on dealing extra damage. Defensively, that 2 STR is just begging to be targeted by a vindictive DM (even with the boost from Reckless Rage and some spells). Such are the dangers of min/maxing. When it comes to utility, TASJ handles the "be a spider" niche extremely well...but there's not much more he can contribute. He fills his role nicely, but that's like saying someone plays the role of Aquaman nicely--that doesn't make Aquaman incredibly useful outside of his niche. Still, wild shape and 9 levels of druid casting are enough to bump this from a deduction to a wash (0).Elegance: 2.5 Without 8 ranks in Knowledge (Nature), you don't qualify for Vermin Keeper (-0.5). While I appreciate your laborious intent to qualify for the newest version of the Verminfriend spell, I can see that one causing headaches with some DMs. Because of that, I can't award full points in good conscience…but I can't deduct them either. Instead, I'll call it a wash (0). Produce Flame doesn't make your natural attacks flaming, but gives you the ability to make a melee touch attack (0). Dipping is avoided, but I found no mention in MMII of the jermlaine's favored class. They sound pretty roguelike to me, but without anything stating rogue is their favored class, a DM may still impose multiclass penalties (0).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4.5 The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). I really, truly loved your dedication to the theme. I dug how many of the class features gave TASJ "always-on" versions of the spells he's already been using. I enjoyed how you amped up his Spider Bite by actually making it venomous, and I appreciated your Wes-Anderson-like attention to detail (0.5). I can't argue with TASJ's motivation--he's out to become a spider, and Fang of Lolth serves that specific purpose very well (0.5).
Moro Tikka: 13 (3.25 average)Originality: 2 I really like the idea of a character's greed growing and growing so much that they'll undergo horrific transformations just to feed it (0.5). Totemist, swordsage, and rogue splashes were repeat offenders this round. I always like Umbral Disciple and you selected a unique subrace, but the three repeated classes left this just shy of a wash (-0.5). Nothing mechanically unique was at play here (-0.5). Staggering Strike & Assassin's Stance seem to be mentioned nowadays just about any time someone mentions sneak attack. Also, I don't know if it's just because we're hot on the tails of the Gnome Giant Slayer, but I'm a bit tired of Underfoot Combat & Confound the Big Folk (-0.5).Power: 4 Your sneak attack keeps up somewhat, but still lags behind a straight rogue. Your BAB suffers for the multiclassing as well. However, I appreciate that you left classes at the proper breakpoints and saved the swordsage levels for the end to rake in some higher level maneuvers (but see Elegance below). All in all, it's a wash here (0). The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5). The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5). Offensively, you have some good sources of bonus damage and extra attacks, but lack the BAB to reliably land your hits. Defensively, though, I love me some Umbral Disciple…not to mention that totemist also lends some great options. In terms of utility, you've got a smattering of important skills and the ability to do more with your soulmelds. Two out of three ain't bad (0).Elegance: 3.5 The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5). The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5). Your swarm can't be a flanking buddy, as it has a reach of 0 feet and therefore threatens no squares. Also, some DMs will give you grief about taking Assassin's Stance. Even though your initiator level is high enough, pg 16 of ToB explicitly states "You begin play with knowledge of one 1st-level stance from any discipline open to you" so you may have to choose a lower level stance at first level. Lastly, we typically use 32-point buy for stats in this competition. I'm missing how you got there; can you please spell it out for me? (-0.5). Multiclass penalties are avoided, but we have two base class dips (0).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.5 The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient and makes use of entry requirements by maxing UMD (0.5). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). While it's nice that you pointed out how Jump bonuses will help Tiger Claw maneuvers, I don't see any specific ones listed that you'd be using. Aside from that, the class features received passing mention but no particular synergy (-0.5). While I really like the overall motivation of Moro, I'm still not sold that going Fang of Lolth was really the best way to feed his greed (0).
Tchar-Lee Kuh-Lee: 16.5 (4.125 average)Originality: 3 I dig the idea of a creature "cursed" by the scarab who didn't fully understand what it was (0.5). I was excited when you had me searching for a race I had never heard of before, but the excitement waned when we chased that with one of three swordsage entries. Because of that, I had to call this a wash (0). I'm always pumped to see someone make use of Gloom Razor, but nothing else really stood out (0). Staggering Strike and Assassin's Stance come up once again (-0.5).Power: 4.5 Your BAB lags and you miss out on 9th-level maneuvers, but you gain a grab bag of useful abilities as a tradeoff. As such, what you give up starts to pale in comparison to what you gain (0.5). The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5). The build thrives without an undue emphasis on items, templates, or other add-ons for power (0.5). Offensively, you're lacking in BAB and significant bonus damage (as Assassin's Stance and +2 damage per hit from Shadow Blade can only do so much. Defensively, though, the shadows are your friends. In terms of utility, you've got some great mobility from maneuvers and scouting from skills, but not much else beyond that. Still, it's enough to call it a wash (0).Elegance: 4.5 The build qualifies for all classes taken outside the Secret Ingredient (0.5). On the topic of the Scent feat, I think the Nezumi entry is specific enough that you're not taking the feat Scent, but taking the special ability from the DMG as a feat, so you're covered (0.5). Thank you for deferring to your DM on nezumi's natural weapons rather than staking a claim either way. Still, it seems like the 3.5 update to Oriental Adventures was missed here and causes some possible confusion so I've got to call this one a wash (0). The build avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping (0.5).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4.5 The build qualifies for the Secret Ingredient, but doesn't make any special use of entry requirements (0). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). I appreciate the specific maneuvers and skill tricks mentioned and how they interact with various class features of the SI (0.5). It makes sense, this poor ratling who became a Fang of Lolth against his will (0.5).
Araignée Spindel Pavouk: 13 (3.25 average)Originality: 2.5 While this was an interesting peek into the fact that your character liked spiders, I didn't care for the fact that it existed primarily as a in-game explanation of all of your ACFs. Tell me more about the character next time (0). The levels in ranger were the only thing here that didn't stand out from the crowd. I don't think Extreme Explorer is a PrC that gets a lot of love, and I chuckled at the combination of two Lolth-themed PrCs (0.5). Nothing mechanically unique was at play here (-0.5). The Dark template and Craven are frequent suggestions around these parts (-0.5).Power: 4 Ranger 4 is a respectable breakpoint, as are the breakpoints you've chosen for your other PrCs. You retain four iterative attacks, keep up your skills, and gain extra attacks from your spider limbs (0.5). The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5). The Dark template contributes much of your stealth, so without it you'd be hamstrung. On the items, you don't present too many; the ones you do present are thoughtfully chosen to bolster the Secret Ingredient, so we'll call this category a wash (0). Offensively, you've got a high number of attacks and respectable bonus damage to each. Here, Craven and the sheer number of attacks really helped you. Defensively, the Dark template's stealth brings something to the table...once Darkstalker comes onboard at level 18. Before that, even a riding dog can sniff you out by Scent. In terms of utility, you're a highly capable scout. Had Darkstalker come onboard in the early levels (or had you presented more defensive options), this could have gotten the triple crown. As is, two out of three ain't bad (0).Elegance: 3 You qualify for all classes taken, but require an alignment shift to get there (see below) (0). I'm not really sure why you selected Versatile Combatant as a feat, since it replicates your ranger fighting style already received at level 2. Was it just to avoid provoking AoOs while firing hand crossbows while threatened? Also, we've got the sticky situation of what happens to Craven when you receive the vermin type. I know readings vary on that one as to whether you're immune to fear, but it's enough to cause conflict at various gaming tables (0). We've got cross-setting material here as both Eberron and Forgotten Realms sources are in play for this character. Additionally, there were passing mentions to a few questionable rules interpretations, most notably that Craven applies to sudden strike. The rule you cited applies only for the purpose of qualification, not the purpose of activation. Therefore, Craven damage will only add onto your sudden strikes if they happen to be sneak attacks as well (-0.5). The build avoids multi-class penalties and excessive dipping (0.5).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.5 I hate to be this guy, but there are two reasons I'm saying the build fails to qualify: first, the fang scarab is mentioned in passing in your items, but there's no talk about activating it at DC25. At the level you enter, that would require a decent roll and I would have at least liked to see it enter the story. Also, there's the alignment shift we mentioned before. It's not too much of a hindrance to get you into Dread Fang of Lolth, but then you're no longer nonlawful as required by this PrC. I'll leave it to individual DMs as to whether or not this means you lose Fang of Lolth class features, but it's enough for me to say you cease to qualify (-0.5). The build completed the Secret Ingredient (0.5). I like what you did with the sneak attack, spider bite, climb speed, and spider limbs, but I would have liked to see that same attention provided to things like spider vision and gaining the vermin type (0). Fang of Lolth makes perfect sense for someone who wants to become a hunter spider (0.5).
Karluthu Kudgelfetch: 8 (2 average)Originality: 1 I'm guessing the backstory was sacrificed to Lolth in the name of time? (-0.5). Your race and one level of barbarian were unique, but everything else was a hodgepodge of things submitted earlier by other contestants. Since that's five different classes all repeated by others, a deduction is warranted (-0.5). Nothing mechanically unique was at play here (-0.5). Spirit Lion totem for pounce, Staggering Strike, & Soul Eater (but see Elegance on that one) are always mentioned in these parts (-0.5).Power: 3 There's a reason for all the dipping, as you leave the classes at respectable breakpoints. I would have liked to see more swordsage (or maybe simply positioning it at the end of the build) to take advantage of higher level maneuvers, but I understand that it was being used to qualify for Soul Eater (0). The build functions at the same power level throughout an entire adventuring day, rather than relying on nova powers (0.5). If your DM doesn't allow anthropomorphic animals, your entire natural attack routine comes way down in power. Luckily, you're not too hung up on items and the amphibious template's inclusion or exclusion doesn't change Karl's power too much (0). Offensively, Karl can maim things to death with tentacly goodness--that's what he was designed in a lab to do, after all. But when it comes to defense or utility, Karl will have a hard time shining or even contributing to a party (-0.5).Elegance: 2.5 As you mentioned, while it's not in the "Requirements" section the Fangshields Ranger has some fluff about being good-aligned (0). The build qualifies for all feats taken (0.5). It seems that you've used 34-point buy while the standard in this competition is 32. Next up, Soul Eater doesn't work that way. It grants you the Supernatural (Su) ability to deal negative levels on a touch, but Supernatural abilities are a standard action to activate so you can only deal 1/turn, not 1/tentacle. More importantly, here is where you'll receive a penalty for late entry, but I'm guessing you expected that. I hope that if real life situations prevented you from meeting the deadline they've all resolved themselves; we've all been there and know how frustrating it can be (-0.5). While we avoided multiclass penalties, the 5 base class dips (and 1 prestige class dip) were egregious enough that I felt a need to make a full deduction here (-0.5).Use of the Secret Ingredient: 1.5 While the fang scarab is "mentioned" in your backstory, I would have liked to see something more as it's listed as a Special requirement of the class. Also, you'll be relying on a decent roll to activate the scarab and join the class at the presented level (-0.5). Only 9 levels of the Secret Ingredient were taken without an explanation as to why this was a better option than finishing the class (-0.5). I really wish that Summon Swarm and Spider Bite had received the same sort of loving care as some of the other class features, but I appreciate the unique synergies you pointed out (0). I get it; you're in this for the spider limbs. My fear is that there were many other options available if you simply wanted more natural attacks (-0.5).

Standings
EntryPlaceTotalAverage
Tchar-Lee Kuh-LeeGold16.54.125
Robin ZarantyrSilver15.53.875
The Amazing Spider-JermlaineBronze13.53.375
Lucy "Legs" SilvertailBronze13.53.375
Moro TikkaFourth133.25
Araignée Spindel PavoukFourth133.25
NymeraSeventh10.52.625
Karluthu KudgelfetchEighth82

Curmudgeon

2015-06-06, 08:15 AM

Each entry will start at a base score of 12 (3 in each category), with deductions or bonuses awarded based on the following questions:

Power:
Does the entry surpass a hypothetical build that continues in the base class used for qualification (i.e. does the entry follow established breakpoints for base classes or make a compelling case for the breakpoint selected)?

If there are any questions about the clarity of my criteria in general, please post them openly so I can address.
I don't see the sense of this criterion, based on the difference in power between starting class and SI. Let's take a theoretical middling powerful SI which can be entered at level 6, and two base classes A (more powerful) and B (less powerful) taken for 5 levels each. An entry of A SI B will get a -0.5 Power penalty, while an entry of B SI A will get a +0.5 Power bonus. These builds have the same overall Power (identical after 20 levels), and the first entry is more powerful (more survivable) to start.

I see what you are trying to measure; I just don't see any sense in doing so. It certainly doesn't reflect overall character Power, and actually measures the opposite of what you want in terms of Power (survivability) in getting to the SI. Why are you measuring the Power slope rather than the level?

Venger

2015-06-06, 09:50 AM

okay, thanks a lot, ponies. I think you were the only judge, so is that it?

Afgncaap5

2015-06-06, 02:23 PM

Ah, cool. Thanks, Ponies!

OMG PONIES

2015-06-06, 03:49 PM

I don't see the sense of this criterion, based on the difference in power between starting class and SI. Let's take a theoretical middling powerful SI which can be entered at level 6, and two base classes A (more powerful) and B (less powerful) taken for 5 levels each. An entry of A SI B will get a -0.5 Power penalty, while an entry of B SI A will get a +0.5 Power bonus. These builds have the same overall Power (identical after 20 levels), and the first entry is more powerful (more survivable) to start.

I see what you are trying to measure; I just don't see any sense in doing so. It certainly doesn't reflect overall character Power, and actually measures the opposite of what you want in terms of Power (survivability) in getting to the SI. Why are you measuring the Power slope rather than the level?

Actually, in most cases A/SI/B would get the same power score as B/SI/A. Where the two builds might see different power for the two would be if one went A 10/SI and the other went B 10/SI. Basically, what I'm looking for can be summed up in one question: "Do you gain more than you would if you didn't use the SI?"

For example, we had some druids in this round who lost half of their casting for the SI. I don't think that's a worthy trade. We also had a spell-less ranger; they gained more from the SI than they gave up, so it was worth it in terms of power. Basically, rather than survivability or anything else, this criterion measures if taking the SI made the entry more powerful, maintained its power level, or sacrificed power for something else. I hope that helps to clarify what I'm looking for.

Darrin

2015-06-06, 11:12 PM

okay, thanks a lot, ponies. I think you were the only judge, so is that it?

Deadasadoor mentioned starting, but hasn't said anything about his progress since then.

Deadasadoor

2015-06-07, 12:10 AM

Thanks for judging, Ponies! No disputes on my end.

Deadasadoor mentioned starting, but hasn't said anything about his progress since then.

I don't believe I said anything about judging, as I was a chef this round :smallwink:. I think WeaselGuy said he was going to judge, but was now unavailable. I'm ready for the next ingredient!

Darrin

2015-06-07, 12:25 AM

I don't believe I said anything about judging, as I was a chef this round :smallwink:. I think WeaselGuy said he was going to judge, but was now unavailable. I'm ready for the next ingredient!

My apologies. I misunderstood you:

A deadline extension would work for me. I've started, but I haven't really felt like sitting down and actually doing the write up.

Since Heliomance was asking about extending the deadline for the judges, I assumed you meant you had started judging.

Deadasadoor

2015-06-07, 12:26 AM

No worries, in hindsight I should have put that in the Home Cooking thread instead.

Heliomance

2015-06-07, 04:34 AM

Dispute time!

. I really do feel bad about disputing, but there are one or two points which seem like they might be enough to scrape a medal for Lucy, so here we go.

I would have liked to see the ability to cast spells like Fist of Stone and Blood Wind more as they were the cornerstone of your build. While you mention picking up some wands later on, your casting is admittedly too light to function as a primary tactic (-0.5). Don't get me wrong, I understand that the class requires an item to enter and has UMD as a requirement, so I'm expecting some items this round. It's when you talk about using items to ensure you can make the check needed to enter the Secret Ingredient that my confidence was a little shaken. It's a smart tactic, but not one all DMs would allow, so I can't award full points here. I don't want to take any away, though, so let's call this a wash (0).Suggesting the use of items to ensure success on the check was more for completion's sake. Lucy will make the check without items 50% of the time at the level from which she enters the SI, and can make it on a 15 (30% chance), or a 19 (still slightly more likely than a natural 1) respectively, on the two preceeding levels, which is better than can be said for many of the other entries. A few can make the make the Fang Scarab check more comfortably without items, but Lucy is in the top half of the builds in that regard. Most of the others would like to use items to assist them on the check as much as or even more than she would, but they weren't marked down for it due to not mentioning the possibility.

I would understand if I were being marked down for item reliance for suggestions like the Lesser Rod of Extend, (eternal) wands, and the like (even though they're drops in the WBL bucket by the time she starts wanting them), though that would then feel like I was getting double dipped, as she'd either be struggling to maintain slots throughout the day without item dependence, or lasting through the adventuring day easily with the help of one or two inexpensive purchases.

I'm going to be that guy--there's a story requirement to Soul Eater that wasn't mentioned in the build. To award points for Elegance, I'd at least like to see that mentioned (0).Fair enough. I meant for Lucy to use the ritual option, in accordance with her acceptance of becoming more and more monstrous and disdain for her own humanity (or whatever remains of it), but as I blathered on about item wishlists instead of saying so, I suppose I deserve this.

We've got some questionable rules interpretations here, particularly keeping Craven while being immune to mind-affecting effects and the oft-cited "Soul Eater lets all natural attacks deal negative levels." I'm in the camp labeled as "more restrictive" (though I'd just call it the RAW for natural weapons). I appreciate that you provided adaptation sections for questionable rules interpretations, but that you had to include them meant you anticipated some contention. Also, in one section you mentioned making 2 bite attacks, but the SRD section on natural weapons stipulates that a creature is allowed one bite attack. Rather than going back and forth, since we avoided cross-setting material or disallowed material I'll call this a wash (0).Threefold Mask of the Chimera explicitly lets you attack with all three of its heads on a full attack, and Blood Wind says you attack with all of your natural weapons, so I think that both of those are cases of specific trumping general with regard to the usual limit of one bite attack (though those rules likely do prevent her from making more than the two Threefold Mask bites on a melee full attack). That's the least of my questionable interpretations, so I don't really expect it to change my score, but I thought I'd point it out so long as I'm here.

It seems that you've used 34-point buy while the standard in this competition is 32.

Another mistake made in haste. Karl's Dex was supposed to be 18, but I think I got it confused with the Con 14. As submitted, I have him at 28 points. Where are you getting 34 points?

Next up, Soul Eater doesn't work that way. It grants you the Supernatural (Su) ability to deal negative levels on a touch, but Supernatural abilities are a standard action to activate so you can only deal 1/turn, not 1/tentacle.

If Energy Drain was a standard action to activate, then it would be a useless ability, as the Soul Eater would be unable to attack with it. My understanding was it works just like the vampire ability, but that's probably just me being sloppy with RAW. If we go by your reading, then the text for Soul Eater mentions "touch" but doesn't say "touch attack", and it's not an SLA or spell, so using the "Touch Spells in Combat" option (PHB p. 140) isn't available here by RAW. If Energy Drain doesn't work as the vampire ability, then it's impossible for any Soul Eater to drain any levels unless he gets more than one standard action per turn.

At least, that's how I've seen it used in Iron Chef before: every natural weapon attack bestows a negative level. I thought that was the generally accepted understanding of how Soul Eater's Energy Drain worked.

Thurbane

2015-06-07, 07:07 PM

The way the Soul Eater's energy drain works has been vigorously debated for years.

FWIW, if it does work exactly the same as a Vampire's, then it would definitely be 1/round, and not 1/attack.

Energy Drain (Su): Living creatures hit by a vampire’s slam attack (or any other natural weapon the vampire might possess) gain two negative levels. For each negative level bestowed, the vampire gains 5 temporary hit points. A vampire can use its energy drain ability once per round.

Darrin

2015-06-07, 10:10 PM

The way the Soul Eater's energy drain works has been vigorously debated for years.

FWIW, if it does work exactly the same as a Vampire's, then it would definitely be 1/round, and not 1/attack.

The 1/round limit is specific to the vampire's text. The Soul Eater entry has no such limitation. According to the MM/SRD, the creature's description is supposed to specify how many times it can be used.

Energy Drain (Su): This attack saps a living opponent’s vital energy and happens automatically when a melee or ranged attack hits. Each successful energy drain bestows one or more negative levels (the creature’s description specifies how many).

The DMG also has more to say about Energy Drain.

Most energy drain attacks require a successful melee attack roll—mere physical contact is not enough.

The "mere physical contact" text appears in both 3.0 and 3.5 sources. Given the brevity and sparseness of the Soul Eater text, it looks like they're relying on the MM and DMG to describe the particulars of how it works. If we go back to the MM entry for Energy Drain (Su), it does specifies how it's activated:

"happens automatically when a melee or ranged attack hits"

That means it piggybacks on an attack action rather than requiring it's own standard action. The "touch" requirement rules out ranged, so if we go by the RAW on MM p. 308, any successful melee attack drains a level. Soul Eater should specify which weapon carries the energy drain and how often it can do this, but it doesn't. So there's no limit per round by RAW. I can't quite parse what "successful melee attack roll" means from a natural/manufactured standpoint, but both the MM and DMG unambiguously state the energy drain happens as the result of a successful melee attack, which would include a natural weapon.

However, Ponies is perfectly within his rights to decide how Energy Drain works for the purposes of his judging criteria.

Thurbane

2015-06-08, 12:01 AM

As I said, if it works exactly as a Vampire's.

The only reason I bought up Vampires at all was this:

My understanding was it works just like the vampire ability, but that's probably just me being sloppy with RAW.

...how the Soul Eater's energy drain work is not clearly defined, and in the many, many arguments I've seen, I don't believe either "side" has walked away with their's being the clear RAW. Although the above is as compelling as any I've seen.

OMG PONIES

2015-06-08, 09:27 AM

@Lucy:

Suggesting the use of items to ensure success on the check was more for completion's sake. Lucy will make the check without items 50% of the time at the level from which she enters the SI, and can make it on a 15 (30% chance), or a 19 (still slightly more likely than a natural 1) respectively, on the two preceeding levels, which is better than can be said for many of the other entries. A few can make the make the Fang Scarab check more comfortably without items, but Lucy is in the top half of the builds in that regard. Most of the others would like to use items to assist them on the check as much as or even more than she would, but they weren't marked down for it due to not mentioning the possibility.

I would understand if I were being marked down for item reliance for suggestions like the Lesser Rod of Extend, (eternal) wands, and the like (even though they're drops in the WBL bucket by the time she starts wanting them), though that would then feel like I was getting double dipped, as she'd either be struggling to maintain slots throughout the day without item dependence, or lasting through the adventuring day easily with the help of one or two inexpensive purchases.

Your point about Lucy's qualification is entirely valid, as she's at +14 to her UMD check without items at the mentioned level, faring better than many competitors. It makes me want to revisit some of their scores, but that would just be mean. Seeing you mention items made me think you needed them to pass, rather than checking back on your actual ranks. +0.5 in Power

Fair enough. I meant for Lucy to use the ritual option, in accordance with her acceptance of becoming more and more monstrous and disdain for her own humanity (or whatever remains of it), but as I blathered on about item wishlists instead of saying so, I suppose I deserve this.

Duly noted. Scoring stands.

Threefold Mask of the Chimera explicitly lets you attack with all three of its heads on a full attack, and Blood Wind says you attack with all of your natural weapons, so I think that both of those are cases of specific trumping general with regard to the usual limit of one bite attack (though those rules likely do prevent her from making more than the two Threefold Mask bites on a melee full attack). That's the least of my questionable interpretations, so I don't really expect it to change my score, but I thought I'd point it out so long as I'm here.

Looking at the text of Threefold Mask of the Chimera, it specifies that each head grants 1 bite and that you can make a secondary attack as part of a full attack. That's going to leave it to a DM to decide whether you can bite with your head & a chimera head, your head & all chimera heads, or your head alone. As anticipated, scoring stands.

@Karlthulu Kudgelfetch

Another mistake made in haste. Karl's Dex was supposed to be 18, but I think I got it confused with the Con 14. As submitted, I have him at 28 points. Where are you getting 34 points?

You know, I couldn't tell you in looking back at it. My sleep-lacking brain may have counted a stat or two after a racial modifier, but it's still something that slipped by given concerns for speed. Scoring stands.

If Energy Drain was a standard action to activate, then it would be a useless ability, as the Soul Eater would be unable to attack with it. My understanding was it works just like the vampire ability, but that's probably just me being sloppy with RAW. If we go by your reading, then the text for Soul Eater mentions "touch" but doesn't say "touch attack", and it's not an SLA or spell, so using the "Touch Spells in Combat" option (PHB p. 140) isn't available here by RAW. If Energy Drain doesn't work as the vampire ability, then it's impossible for any Soul Eater to drain any levels unless he gets more than one standard action per turn.

At least, that's how I've seen it used in Iron Chef before: every natural weapon attack bestows a negative level. I thought that was the generally accepted understanding of how Soul Eater's Energy Drain worked.

There's a difference between what is generally accepted on charop threads and what is generally accepted at gaming tables. When judging, I prefer the latter. Darrin & Thurbane have already nicely illustrated the short version of the debate over this particular ability, and it's partially because the debate exists that the score was given. I err more on the side of caution on this particular class feature, though I know most optimizers wished I didn't. Scoring stands.

The Viscount

2015-06-08, 10:32 AM

Well then, it looks like we're ready for reveal and the next round.

Heliomance

2015-06-08, 04:39 PM

Alas, there's a pair more debates I got earlier today, that I've only just noticed. I'll put the next one up while we're waiting on those last ones though.

(Sorry for the slow response, but my InterNet service has been sucking with high vacuum these last few days).

Originality

Does the entry make use of any unique mechanical tricks/feat chains?
This question can be answered with a straight "yes", which according to your criteria merits a +0.5 score adjustment. Druidic Avenger adds rage, which is augmented by Reckless Rage feat and Blood Frenzy spell. You even noted this as a way to offset the very detrimental racial STR penalty.

While I like your rationale behind the use of jermlaine, I've seen that pesky little fey more times than I can shake a stick at being suggested for druid builds.
You're characterizing this as a Druid build, whereas there are only 4 levels of (a variant of) that class. This is primarily a Fang of Lolth build. Significant resources went into offsetting the Jermlaine penalty to Charisma, both in build points and skill points for Charisma-based skills. Unlike a Druid build, none of the 5 ability increments went into Wisdom. There's enough Druid to get Tasj going in a Spider-focused manner.

Elegance

Produce Flame doesn't make your natural attacks flaming, but gives you the ability to make a melee touch attack (0).

Holding the Charge
If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge.
Also see page 85 of Complete Arcane regarding weaponlike spells.

Originality

Does the entry make use of any unique mechanical tricks/feat chains?

Nothing mechanically unique was at play here (-0.5).
Huh? You appear to have overlooked Action Boost and Action Surge feats along with Extreme Explorer's Additional action points. Araignée can take an additional move action (cost: 1 action point) or standard action (cost: 2 action points).

Elegance

I'm not really sure why you selected Versatile Combatant as a feat, since it replicates your ranger fighting style already received at level 2. Was it just to avoid provoking AoOs while firing hand crossbows while threatened?
Yes, that's precisely it. Araignée fights with one rapier and five hand crossbows. Five AoOs could be fatal. Having to give up all but one attack in a round to avoid AoOs could also be fatal. I thought the combo was fairly elegant, with a feat that's basically designed for her race's weapon proficiencies also leveraging the SI's ability to wield more of those weapons.

Additionally, there were passing mentions to a few questionable rules interpretations, most notably that Craven applies to sudden strike. The rule you cited applies only for the purpose of qualification, not the purpose of activation. Therefore, Craven damage will only add onto your sudden strikes if they happen to be sneak attacks as well (-0.5).

For the purpose of qualifying for feats, prestige classes, and similar options that require a minimum number of sneak attack extra damage dice, treat the ninja’s sudden strike ability as the equivalent of sneak attack.
What exactly is your distinction between qualifying to activate a feat's benefit, and actually activating it? I don't see it. Did you perhaps misread this as being limited to qualify for selecting a feat like Craven? The rule says nothing about only selecting; it's a blanket statement about qualifications, which includes both selecting and using.

Use of Secret Ingredient

I hate to be this guy, but there are two reasons I'm saying the build fails to qualify: first, the fang scarab is mentioned in passing in your items, but there's no talk about activating it at DC25.
Might I suggest you simply don't be that guy, because your "fails to qualify" concerns are unfounded? Activating the Fang Scarab only requires one success, and the character has an entire level in which to achieve that success.

Action: None. The Use Magic Device check is made as part of the action (if any) required to activate the magic item.

Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours. She's got 10 ranks in UMD and a +2 modifier, meaning a roll of 13 or better is required. She can make back-to-back attempts (no action used) to activate the device. The chances of rolling something in the 13-20 range are much higher than the chance of rolling a 1. DMG standards say 13.333 encounters for one level increase, with the number of encounters per day varying by DM, but generally not more than 5 per day. And, of course, characters can elect to take some down time. Even with a DM rushing through 5 encounters every day, there's so vanishingly small a chance that Araignée will roll a 1 day after day after day and fail to activate the Fang Scarab even without down time that I found no reason to include it in her story. It's just not enough of a statistic to merit mention. I really think this score should change from -0.5 to +0.5.

OMG PONIES

2015-06-09, 07:58 AM

If I may, a word from the judge's perspective before responding to disputes:

Just like with cooking an entry, judging takes time. Likewise, good cooking or good judging takes a lot of time. Disputes add to that time for both of us, and prevent us from diving into the next awesome/awful ingredient. If I've been inconsistent between entries, missed something stated in the entry, or just got something flat-out wrong, please let me know about it. If, on the other hand, you disagree with an opinion of mine, we come down on different sides of a lingering rules debate, or you disagree with one comment I made out of multiple comments that affected a specific criterion, I'd ask you to take a moment and ask whether that dispute will be productive or slow down our process. Will that extra 0.5 earn you a medal? Even if it will, is it worth bumping someone else out of medal contention and feeling just as bummed as you do now? Even if it is, does winning a medal in our little competition mean that much in the long run?

I'm saying this mainly to myself, as I've been one of the bigger offenders (even lodging disputes when my entry was in first place), but can I suggest that we all stop taking the dispute process so seriously? When someone dedicates hours to making a build, I know you want feedback. You want everyone to be as pumped about the build as you are. But the same thing goes for judging; it takes hours, and I want folks to enjoy my feedback. Some of you have, and that's awesome. Even among the debates, I don't feel too much ill will. It's just pretty disheartening (like making a build and getting scored all 1s) to spend hours crafting judging results only to have 34% of my feedback disputed. As a judge, I've tried to shy away from the hard-nosed approach I used to take in favor of a more positive and productive dialogue. Can I ask chefs to do the same when disputing?

...And away we go!

(Sorry for the slow response, but my InterNet service has been sucking with high vacuum these last few days).

Does the entry make use of any unique mechanical tricks/feat chains?
This question can be answered with a straight "yes", which according to your criteria merits a +0.5 score adjustment. Druidic Avenger adds rage, which is augmented by Reckless Rage feat and Blood Frenzy spell. You even noted this as a way to offset the very detrimental racial STR penalty.

This criterion is pretty subjective, isn't it? What you thought was "original" I thought was "a retread of something I've seen a few times before." And I wasn't mentioning this as a good way to offset your STR penalty; I was saying "Even with this, your STR is hosed." That's the problem with subjective criteria like "unique mechanical tricks/feat chains," isn't it? One person's +0.5 is another man's 0. Honestly, had you found a few more spidery goodies, you probably would have snagged the coveted +0.5 on this one just for dedication to your theme. As is, I'm not seeing any feat chains or mechanical tricks I missed on my first scoring. Scoring stands.

While I like your rationale behind the use of jermlaine, I've seen that pesky little fey more times than I can shake a stick at being suggested for druid builds.
You're characterizing this as a Druid build, whereas there are only 4 levels of (a variant of) that class. This is primarily a Fang of Lolth build. Significant resources went into offsetting the Jermlaine penalty to Charisma, both in build points and skill points for Charisma-based skills. Unlike a Druid build, none of the 5 ability increments went into Wisdom. There's enough Druid to get Tasj going in a Spider-focused manner.

I was born at night time, but not last night :smalltongue:. While there are only 4 levels of variant druid in play, you've also got 5 levels of a druid prestige class. As such, 9 levels of druid casting was the majority of your chassis before adding on the Secret Ingredient. Therefore, I evaluate the chassis against handbooks for that type, where jermlaines come up quite a bit. Also, this criterion was effected by the inclusion of Staggering Strike, staple of sneak attack handbooks everywhere. Scoring stands.

Elegance

Produce Flame doesn't make your natural attacks flaming, but gives you the ability to make a melee touch attack (0).
Holding the Charge

If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge.
Also see page 85 of Complete Arcane regarding weaponlike spells.

Ah, holding a charge--my old nemesis. The only problem is that Produce Flame doesn't have a range of "touch" like other touch spells.

Touch Spells in Combat: Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells...

Range: 0 ft.

Because it's a bit of an odd duck, I've heard folks come down on both sides of the "using Produce Flame to make all natural attacks flaming" issue. I still haven't heard a case that's been compelling enough to make it sound like the spell works as intended in your entry. The weaponlike spells bit provides limited guidance on spells that can strike more than once per round when it says:

Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster gets a bonus on damage with such spells (including sneak attack damage), the extra damage applies only to the first attack, whether that attack hits or not. For example, a 7th-level sorcerer/3rd-level rogue with Point Blank Shot makes a scorching ray attack...

Since the example spell of Scorching Ray specifies how many rays can be fired as part of the casting, it doesn't quite help us interpret how to rule on spells like Produce Flame. However, because debate exists I'm willing to call it a wash instead of deducting points. This is why I scored as I did, and the debate still exists. Scoring stands

Originality

Does the entry make use of any unique mechanical tricks/feat chains?

Nothing mechanically unique was at play here (-0.5).
Huh? You appear to have overlooked Action Boost and Action Surge feats along with Extreme Explorer's Additional action points. Araignée can take an additional move action (cost: 1 action point) or standard action (cost: 2 action points).

Allow me to clarify. I did not overlook these items; rather, I have seen them used to get extra actions many times before. Therefore, they did not register as "unique" in my initial scoring. Also, the problem with action points is that, without a way to generate more action points, your 17 action points at level 20 turns into 8 extra standard actions and 1 extra move action until you level again. That's a bit limited. Scoring stands.

Elegance

I'm not really sure why you selected Versatile Combatant as a feat, since it replicates your ranger fighting style already received at level 2. Was it just to avoid provoking AoOs while firing hand crossbows while threatened?
Yes, that's precisely it. Araignée fights with one rapier and five hand crossbows. Five AoOs could be fatal. Having to give up all but one attack in a round to avoid AoOs could also be fatal. I thought the combo was fairly elegant, with a feat that's basically designed for her race's weapon proficiencies also leveraging the SI's ability to wield more of those weapons.

While I agree that taking Versatile Combatant on a hand crossbow drow build is a nice & elegant choice, what I balked at was the inclusion of Two-Weapon Fighting as well. Granted, I understand that it's there so it can be replaced by Multi-Weapon Fighting. However, that means for 6 levels you have TWF as a redundant feat (until you at least snag Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at level 12). Keep in mind, this criterion received a 0 not just for Versatile Combatant making TWF redundant, but also for the rules quagmire that arises once a build that has taken Craven receives the vermin type. Scoring stands.

Additionally, there were passing mentions to a few questionable rules interpretations, most notably that Craven applies to sudden strike. The rule you cited applies only for the purpose of qualification, not the purpose of activation. Therefore, Craven damage will only add onto your sudden strikes if they happen to be sneak attacks as well (-0.5).

For the purpose of qualifying for feats, prestige classes, and similar options that require a minimum number of sneak attack extra damage dice, treat the ninja’s sudden strike ability as the equivalent of sneak attack.
What exactly is your distinction between qualifying to activate a feat's benefit, and actually activating it? I don't see it. Did you perhaps misread this as being limited to qualify for selecting a feat like Craven? The rule says nothing about only selecting; it's a blanket statement about qualifications, which includes both selecting and using.

Agree to disagree. The whole issue of whether feat qualifications extend to use or only selection has been bounced around like a tennis ball by optimizers. As such, had this been the only questionable rules interpretation it probably would have netted a wash. It was the inclusion of cross-setting material as well that pushed this into full deduction territory, where it remains. Scoring stands.

Use of Secret Ingredient

I hate to be this guy, but there are two reasons I'm saying the build fails to qualify: first, the fang scarab is mentioned in passing in your items, but there's no talk about activating it at DC25.
Might I suggest you simply don't be that guy, because your "fails to qualify" concerns are unfounded? Activating the Fang Scarab only requires one success, and the character has an entire level in which to achieve that success.

Action: None. The Use Magic Device check is made as part of the action (if any) required to activate the magic item.

Try Again: Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can’t try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
She's got 10 ranks in UMD and a +2 modifier, meaning a roll of 13 or better is required. She can make back-to-back attempts (no action used) to activate the device. The chances of rolling something in the 13-20 range are much higher than the chance of rolling a 1. DMG standards say 13.333 encounters for one level increase, with the number of encounters per day varying by DM, but generally not more than 5 per day. And, of course, characters can elect to take some down time. Even with a DM rushing through 5 encounters every day, there's so vanishingly small a chance that Araignée will roll a 1 day after day after day and fail to activate the Fang Scarab even without down time that I found no reason to include it in her story. It's just not enough of a statistic to merit mention. I really think this score should change from -0.5 to +0.5.

The failure to qualify was not given solely on the basis of the fleeting mention of the fang scarab; if it were, I'd be happy to review and possibly change my score as I've done for other entries. The main reason this criterion received a -0.5 was because of the alignment shift that made it possible for you to have levels in both Fang of Lolth and Dread Fang of Lolth. While it was a fun touch, one requires nonlawful alignment while the other requires lawful alignment. It's enough to cause tension at a large percentage of gaming tables, and enough that I'd personally adjudicate that you cease to qualify and lose your Fang of Lolth class features. Scoring stands.

Venger

2015-06-09, 07:10 PM

The Viscount

2015-06-10, 01:32 PM

We appreciate your toils, Mr. Ponies.

Time for the reveal, then?

Heliomance

2015-06-10, 02:06 PM

Indeed, I was just coming to do that!
Standings
EntryChefPlaceTotalAverage
Tchar-Lee Kuh-LeeThe ViscountGold16.54.125
Robin ZarantyrAfgncaap5Silver15.53.875
The Amazing Spider-JermlaineCurmudgeonBronze13.53.375
Lucy "Legs" SilvertailWhamBamSamBronze13.53.375
Moro TikkaDeadasadoorFifth133.25
Araignée Spindel PavoukCurmudgeonFifth133.25
NymerasamdukeSeventh10.52.625
Karluthu KudgelfetchDarrinEighth82

Well done to all the competitors! A reminder, please would everyone put the name of their entry in the subject of your PMs when you send things in to me. It makes this step a lot easier. Most of you did this time, but there were still a couple who didn't. Thanks!

WhamBamSam

2015-06-10, 03:14 PM

Woo. I managed to scrape a medal. Congratulations to The Viscount, Afgncaap5, and Curmudgeon as well. Was there an Honorable Mention, Heliomance?

If I may, a word from the judge's perspective before responding to disputes:

Just like with cooking an entry, judging takes time. Likewise, good cooking or good judging takes a lot of time. Disputes add to that time for both of us, and prevent us from diving into the next awesome/awful ingredient. If I've been inconsistent between entries, missed something stated in the entry, or just got something flat-out wrong, please let me know about it. If, on the other hand, you disagree with an opinion of mine, we come down on different sides of a lingering rules debate, or you disagree with one comment I made out of multiple comments that affected a specific criterion, I'd ask you to take a moment and ask whether that dispute will be productive or slow down our process. Will that extra 0.5 earn you a medal? Even if it will, is it worth bumping someone else out of medal contention and feeling just as bummed as you do now? Even if it is, does winning a medal in our little competition mean that much in the long run?

I'm saying this mainly to myself, as I've been one of the bigger offenders (even lodging disputes when my entry was in first place), but can I suggest that we all stop taking the dispute process so seriously? When someone dedicates hours to making a build, I know you want feedback. You want everyone to be as pumped about the build as you are. But the same thing goes for judging; it takes hours, and I want folks to enjoy my feedback. Some of you have, and that's awesome. Even among the debates, I don't feel too much ill will. It's just pretty disheartening (like making a build and getting scored all 1s) to spend hours crafting judging results only to have 34% of my feedback disputed. As a judge, I've tried to shy away from the hard-nosed approach I used to take in favor of a more positive and productive dialogue. Can I ask chefs to do the same when disputing?In retrospect, I probably should have limited my dispute to just the bit about activating the Fang Scarab without items, since I pretty much knew nothing else I was saying was worth points. There is a sort of pull to try to explain oneself on some things. It's like wanting your teacher to know that you aren't an idiot, even if you don't expect them to change your grade. I'll try to be better about that sort of thing in the future.

a little research on judges and their politics goes a long way in iron chef. Ironically, I was to a certain extent trying to appeal to a judge's politics. Curmudgeon posted criteria earlier, and he's been pretty vocal about the Craven/Mind-Affecting Immunity thing in the past (to the point of me tying him to that particular interpretation in my head, which is why I name-dropped him in my entry). That meant that I was finishing off Fang of Lolth, which in turn, made me decide to try shooting the moon with regard to the whole Soul Eater argument, as I wanted the Vermin Type capstone pulling more weight.

Had I known Ponies was judging and thought hard about it, I'd probably have realized that (as with previous builds of mine that he's judged) I would probably get lower than expected in Originality and Power, but do quite well in UoSI. I'd have focused more on Elegance and a bit less on UoSI, and likely gone with the Totemist 2/Fighter 2/Battle Dancer 1/Sorcerer 2/Osteomancer 4/Fang of Lolth 9 stub which I relegated to the Adaptation section. I probably could have improved my score from him by a full point or two between Elegance and Power, even if I did get knocked down half a point in UoSI for not finishing Fang of Lolth.

Not that it would, ultimately, have made much difference. I was a long way out of second place, and am perfectly content to share the bronze.

While I'm here, I'll post the second idea I had, which didn't end up working out. Here's the functional version of the stub, which uses flaws.

Silverbrow Human Warblade 6/Hit-and-Run Sneak Attack Fighter 1/Uncanny Trickster 3/Fang of Lolth 10 (or Warblade 7/Fang of Lolth 9 to avoid the Craven/Mind-Affecting thing)
1. Warblade 1 - Power Attack, Dragon Tail, Two-Weapon Fighting, Shape Soulmeld (Dragon Tail)
2. Warblade 2
3. Warblade 3 - Prehensile Tail, Multiweapon Fighting (Replaces TWF)
4. Warblade 4
5. Warblade 5 - Combat Reflexes
6. Warblade 6
7. Hit-And-Run Sneak Attack Fighter 1
8. Uncanny Trickster 1
9. Fang of Lolth 1 - Craven
10. Uncanny Trickster 2 (Warblade 7 features)
11. Fang of Lolth 2
12. Fang of Lolth 3 - Maiming Strike
13. Fang of Lolth 4
14. Fang of Lolth 5
15. Fang of Lolth 6 - Improved Multiweapon Fighting
16. Fang of Lolth 7
17. Fang of Lolth 8
18. Fang of Lolth 9 - Multitasking
19. Fang of Lolth 10
20. Uncanny Trickster 3 (Warblade 8 features)

The idea here was to use the Savage Species rules for creatures with lots of arms to wield a 6 handed version of a two-handed weapon (probably a longspear, though I did also consider trying to UMD up Master's Touch for a Keen Kaorti Resin Great Falchion), run around to set up Acrobatic Backstab and multitask with Ruby Nightmare Blade and (at 20th level with IL bootstrapping from Uncanny Trickster) Diamond Nightmare Blade, multiplying the multiplied strength (and jumping out of D&D multiplication in between from what I can tell), the flat damage bonuses from Hit-and-Run Tactics, Battle Cunning, and Craven, and the Cha damage from Maiming Strike (which, unlike Sneak Attack damage, does get multiplied). Had a few other nifty tricks as well, like effectively adding 10ft to the Climb speed by having Speedy Ascent as the first Favored Trick, and using Multitasking to maintain concentration on Summon Swarm and move it out of combat, while still being able to move around.

Because of the overlap of the Dragon Tail feat/Dragon Tail Soulmeld/Prehensile Tail bit, I was going to submit her in tandem with Lucy ala JanusJones' Big (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15892815&postcount=290) Sun (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15893272&postcount=291) submission from the Shadow Sun Ninja round, fluffing them as sisters. Unfortunately, due to a combination of factors, I couldn't make the build work without flaws (switching to non-Sneak Attack Fighter screws up the feat timing of Craven, can't qualify for Uncanny Trickster before level 7 due to the maximum number of Skill Tricks on a character, Point Buy is altogether too tight, etc.) so I ended up having to scrap it.

Darrin

2015-06-10, 04:04 PM

I really wish people who weren't in the running for a medal wouldn't waste everyone's time with disputes.

This was a concern for me, as I was dead last, so how exactly was a dispute going to improve things for me, but in my defense:

1) I *really* wanted to know how Ponies calculated my point buy at 34, as I thought that was a clear "Judge made a math mistake" issue. Turns out I did have my math wrong, but it was in the other direction. That was sloppiness/procrastination/rushing things on my part.

2) I wanted to clarify the Soul Eater thing because another entry had used it, and I was kinda hoping Lucy could climb up into a medal position (she was going to be my vote for Honorable Mention if she didn't place). Turns out that did happen (tied for bronze!), but not because of the Soul Eater thing. And it would have helped me a lot more if I'd done my homework on the issue... I'd seen it used before in Iron Chef, and it was a genuine surprise to me that any judge would have an issue with it (other than a penalty for dipping only one level). Attempting to use the vampire energy drain as an example without actually reading the vampire entry certainly didn't help, either. After my initial dispute, I think I managed a pretty decent argument for why it should work the way I wanted it to (posting as myself), but I should have realized Ponies was not going to budge (nor did he need to).

My entry was supposed to explain why I didn't take the last level of the SI, but in my rush to get the entry finished, I forgot to include it: A) I wanted Maiming Strike to be the focus of my build, so I thought another +1d6 sneak attack (thus 2 points of Cha damage) was a much better choice than the last level of the SI and B) I couldn't figure out what to do with the vermin type. I figured there had to be some template wankery, maybe switching vermin to magical beast, but I couldn't find anything interesting.

Fortunately, I think WhamBamSam came up with a good reason to switch your type to vermin: it allows a humanoid to qualify for Soul Eater.

Deadline

2015-06-10, 05:42 PM

And it would have helped me a lot more if I'd done my homework on the issue... I'd seen it used before in Iron Chef, and it was a genuine surprise to me that any judge would have an issue with it (other than a penalty for dipping only one level).

I ran into some issues with it with one of my submissions for Talon of Tiamat (Lady Grey (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15314790&postcount=337)). I think mattie_p commented on it.

Thurbane

2015-06-11, 02:48 AM

After my initial dispute, I think I managed a pretty decent argument for why it should work the way I wanted it to (posting as myself), but I should have realized Ponies was not going to budge (nor did he need to).
I think you're argument was a solid as I'd ever seen in regards to getting the SE energy drain to work off every natural attack.

OMG PONIES

2015-06-13, 07:39 AM

Congrats to all, and welcome to some of the unfamiliar names I'm starting to see! :smallsmile:

you complained when your entry was in first place? wow. I complained once when first place was taken from me, but I didn't know anyone had done that. well done.

Err, thanks?

to save yourself future heartache, I advise making up a rubric for disputes (doesn't have to be public, just for yourself) and go through a questionnaire based on how valid the question is, and how much defense it deserves from you accordingly...anyway, hope it doesn't sour you on judging, you're my favorite judge.

Hmm, not a bad idea. I want to give every dispute the attention it deserves, but to your point perhaps some deserve more attention. I'll consider it. And I'm not soured on judging but I do appreciate the compliment :smallbiggrin:.

In retrospect, I probably should have limited my dispute to just the bit about activating the Fang Scarab without items, since I pretty much knew nothing else I was saying was worth points. There is a sort of pull to try to explain oneself on some things. It's like wanting your teacher to know that you aren't an idiot, even if you don't expect them to change your grade. I'll try to be better about that sort of thing in the future.

Since what we're doing here takes a fair amount of thought, I think that compulsion is normal. We always want to explain our thought processes, hoping that the explanation will help others get there as well.

Had I known Ponies was judging and thought hard about it, I'd probably have realized that (as with previous builds of mine that he's judged) I would probably get lower than expected in Originality and Power, but do quite well in UoSI. I'd have focused more on Elegance and a bit less on UoSI, and likely gone with the Totemist 2/Fighter 2/Battle Dancer 1/Sorcerer 2/Osteomancer 4/Fang of Lolth 9 stub which I relegated to the Adaptation section. I probably could have improved my score from him by a full point or two between Elegance and Power, even if I did get knocked down half a point in UoSI for not finishing Fang of Lolth.

FWIW, If you present a compelling reason why taking 9 levels of the SI is better use of the Ingredient than taking 10, I'm always willing to call that section a wash or award full points if you can convince me. As to your adapted build, we've still got dipping concerns but that probably would have bumped up your Elegance by +0.5 since we don't have class qualification issue without Soul Eater. Power most likely would have remained unchanged.

While I'm here, I'll post the second idea I had, which didn't end up working out. Here's the functional version of the stub, which uses flaws.

Interesting indeed!

1) I *really* wanted to know how Ponies calculated my point buy at 34, as I thought that was a clear "Judge made a math mistake" issue. Turns out I did have my math wrong, but it was in the other direction. That was sloppiness/procrastination/rushing things on my part.

Let's chalk it up to my spider sense tingling :smalltongue:. Looking back, I believe I may have accidentally tallied ability scores after racial adjustments, rather than before.

2) I wanted to clarify the Soul Eater thing because another entry had used it, and I was kinda hoping Lucy could climb up into a medal position (she was going to be my vote for Honorable Mention if she didn't place). Turns out that did happen (tied for bronze!), but not because of the Soul Eater thing. And it would have helped me a lot more if I'd done my homework on the issue... I'd seen it used before in Iron Chef, and it was a genuine surprise to me that any judge would have an issue with it (other than a penalty for dipping only one level). Attempting to use the vampire energy drain as an example without actually reading the vampire entry certainly didn't help, either. After my initial dispute, I think I managed a pretty decent argument for why it should work the way I wanted it to (posting as myself), but I should have realized Ponies was not going to budge (nor did he need to).

To give credit where credit is due, you've put together one of the most thought-out defenses of the "Soul Drain applies on all attacks" camp. The reason I scored as I did was more because there's been a long-standing debate than because of my personal stance in said debate. As a judge, all of my questions and comments basically boil down to two things:

Would this work well in a party from the perspective of all players involved?
Would this work well in a game from the perspective of most DMs?

If something works well from the player perspective but could cause long conversations with the DM, chances are we'll see some Elegance concerns. If something works but doesn't pull its weight from the perspective of other players, we'd see the concerns arise in Power. I hope that helps give a glimpse into my thought process.

My entry was supposed to explain why I didn't take the last level of the SI, but in my rush to get the entry finished, I forgot to include it: A) I wanted Maiming Strike to be the focus of my build, so I thought another +1d6 sneak attack (thus 2 points of Cha damage) was a much better choice than the last level of the SI and B) I couldn't figure out what to do with the vermin type. I figured there had to be some template wankery, maybe switching vermin to magical beast, but I couldn't find anything interesting.

Fortunately, I think WhamBamSam came up with a good reason to switch your type to vermin: it allows a humanoid to qualify for Soul Eater.

Had this been included in your original entry, that would have been a great example of a compelling justification for not completing the Ingredient, bringing you from -0.5 to +0.5 on that criterion. With the sheer number of attacks you were doing, buffing up Maiming Strike was a great idea.

WhamBamSam

2015-06-13, 01:54 PM

2) I wanted to clarify the Soul Eater thing because another entry had used it, and I was kinda hoping Lucy could climb up into a medal position (she was going to be my vote for Honorable Mention if she didn't place). Turns out that did happen (tied for bronze!), but not because of the Soul Eater thing. And it would have helped me a lot more if I'd done my homework on the issue... I'd seen it used before in Iron Chef, and it was a genuine surprise to me that any judge would have an issue with it (other than a penalty for dipping only one level). Attempting to use the vampire energy drain as an example without actually reading the vampire entry certainly didn't help, either. After my initial dispute, I think I managed a pretty decent argument for why it should work the way I wanted it to (posting as myself), but I should have realized Ponies was not going to budge (nor did he need to).

My entry was supposed to explain why I didn't take the last level of the SI, but in my rush to get the entry finished, I forgot to include it: A) I wanted Maiming Strike to be the focus of my build, so I thought another +1d6 sneak attack (thus 2 points of Cha damage) was a much better choice than the last level of the SI and B) I couldn't figure out what to do with the vermin type. I figured there had to be some template wankery, maybe switching vermin to magical beast, but I couldn't find anything interesting.

Fortunately, I think WhamBamSam came up with a good reason to switch your type to vermin: it allows a humanoid to qualify for Soul Eater.Thanks! I'm always glad when people like my builds.

Regarding the magical beast thing, I think the type change would just come too late. The things that I would do with the magical beast type are a) Rapidstrike, and b) Alter Self into a Blink Dog with Assume Supernatural Ability or Metamorphic Transfer to try and get to 4 Shadow Pounces per round with a relatively (compared to a full caster burning 4 caster levels on Shadowlord, which just feels wrong) non-magical build. The earliest possible entry point into Fang of Lolth leaves you only 1 feat between the vermin type change and ECL20 (and that's if your magical beast template is at most LA+2), which means no Improved Rapidstrike for you unless you're also grabbing a non-specific bonus feat (which generally doesn't fluff well with a servant of Lolth, as the only ones I can think of are the Demon Lord Thralls (too many masters) and Heir of Siberys (cross setting)). It's just not worth it compared to being a Dragonwrought Kobold, Elan, Synad, Daelkyr Half-Blood, or whatever other type cheese race you'd normally get it with. Blink Dog Shadow Pouncing would only work if you could find a LA+0 type changing template, and then only if you can pick up a CL 4+ Alter Self in your first 5 levels while still qualifying for Shadow Marrauder on time (Shadowlord and Fang of Lolth both have 8 as their earliest entry point, so you can only have 13 total levels between them).

FWIW, If you present a compelling reason why taking 9 levels of the SI is better use of the Ingredient than taking 10, I'm always willing to call that section a wash or award full points if you can convince me. As to your adapted build, we've still got dipping concerns but that probably would have bumped up your Elegance by +0.5 since we don't have class qualification issue without Soul Eater. Power most likely would have remained unchanged.Well, the explanation would have been "unless you retain Craven when immune to mind-affecting, the vermin type would take away Lucy's biggest source of bonus damage, weakening both her use of Fang of Lolth's sneak attack progression, and of the Spider Bite and Spider Limbs (as the extra attacks would have less oomph). Additionally, remaining humanoid means that the enlarge ability at Osteomancer 4 remains functional, though that's more of an afterthought." I would have also avoided all of the questionable rules interpretations (even the multiple bites thing, more or less, as I'd have spent the freed up Weapon Focus feat to Open Chakra (Hands) and switched Lucy's chakra bind to the Sphinx Claws hand bind for pounce) and had two more levels of spellcasting for more Blood Wind/Fist of Stone slots to last through the day better.

It's a moot point at this stage, though, and like I said, I was a long way out of 2nd place anyway, so even the best possible outcome likely wouldn't have changed much.

Interesting indeed!Thank you! I really, really tried to make it work without flaws, but just couldn't manage it. Actually, even the stub I just posted has to drop Maiming Strike, as Multiattack is a prerequisite for Multitasking, so that's sort of disappointing.

I tried switching to non-Sneak Attack Fighter, but that screwed up the feat timing as I couldn't enter Fang of Lolth until 9th level with Uncanny Trickster as my only UMD class, and I couldn't fit Improved Multiweapon Fighting (I couldn't take Improved TWF earlier and convert it due to the higher Dex prerequisite), Craven (now needing the Sneak Attack from Fang of Lolth 2 to qualify), and Multiattack (the Spider Bite at Fang of Lolth 3 was the third natural weapon alongside the two tails) into the two feat slots at 12 and 15. Then I tried to pull some feat shuffling shenanigans with going Dragonborn (Dragonborn Lolth-Touched creatures are so popular in CharOp that I thought I could fluff it as Lolth trying to steal one of Bahamut's more CN servants as compensation) the idea being that I'd drop the Warblade 5 bonus feat as you get to drop any feat if your race previously gave you a non-specific bonus feat, and possibly convert Apprentice (Spellcaster) into Dragon Tail, but that didn't work, even when I tried resolving the Dex/Con issues (the build requires 15 Dex for the MWF line and Multitasking, and 13 Con for Shape Soulmeld) by starting off as an Unseelie Fey. Even if I had managed to hash it together the workaround it'd have been less elegant than just taking the flaws, but I'm still a little disappointed that I couldn't pull it off.