Is this the glass cannon we deserve!?

[BumblingDM]

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/alternate-classes/samurai/archetypes/rite-publishing---samurai-archetypes/yabusame

hey everyone, i would like some opinions and concepts on this class - i have a player playing it, and its seems as he levels it gets kind of dumb.

how does the damage stack? would you play one?


Anywho any insight would be great - thanks!

[JDL]

You're shooting stuff with a bow, and your character is supposed to be really good at it. At level 5, you can add 2 times Dex Mod on your attack roll. This essentially adds +4 to +6 depending on your character's equipment, assuming they're going Dex focused. Far Challenge adds another +4 to this, twice per day at this stage. Far Challenge would also be adding +5 to damage and sacrifice 4 AC.

In comparison, a level 5 Barbarian with the Rage Power Reckless Abandon would be sacrificing 4 AC for +4 to hit and +5 damage in melee when in Rage combat. This means the Yabusame is beating a Raging Barbarian for bonuses, with the caveat that it must be a full round action to attack, whereas the Barbarian can Charge.

Then compare it to a Sorcerer with Scorching Ray and realize it's probably okay. And as you get to higher level, well, the Arcane character that can just Teleport away from danger and bend reality at a whim is still going to outshine the guy who can hit stuff really well with an arrow (unless it's invisible, incorporeal, behind total cover, standing somewhere really windy, etc.)

[(Un)Inspired]

I probably would not play one. It's an archetype that revolves around dealing damage with a bow (and nothing else) that is not put together in a way that will allow it to actually do damage with a bow.

Beware feats and class features that attempt to lure you into making single attacks.

[BumblingDM]

More or less what I am seeing.

the character in question is 13th level.

Just making sure that with manyshot a character with this build should be doing close to 150 damage a shot.

[JDL]

At 13th level, he can use his Far Challenge ability to add his level as extra damage 5 times per day. If the opponent hits him in melee, he loses the ability and it becomes a regular Samurai Challenge. If he kills the opponent, the Far Challenge ends. He would be using a +13/+13/+8/+3 base attack bonus progression for his full attack with his bow each round, if he's using Manyshot and Far Challenge. Assuming he hits with three of his four arrows, that's an extra 39 damage per round from Far Challenge alone. Using Shi no ya instead, he'd do 1 attack roll at double Dex bonus, plus BAB, dealing triple arrow damage, plus Dex bonus, plus Class Level with Far Challenge. Assuming he hits, if he's got a Dex of 24, that's 3d8 arrow damage plus 7 Dex damage plus 13 Far Challenge for an average of 33.5 damage per round, not counting crits or misses, with a very high chance to hit the target. Note that you only get to triple the arrow damage, not the Far Challenge or Dex bonus damage. Those are still only applying to a single shot. A Sorcerer shooting Scorching Rays would have 6+ uses per day for an average of 42 damage if all three hit the target's touch AC.

Honestly, it's a pretty good ability, but not overpowered. As soon as the enemy closes into melee range he's going to have to bail out or drop the bow. I'd guess most encounters won't be arranged with enemies lining up for him from 200 ft. away. Throw a bunch of minions at him first to soften him up, make him chew through a few charges against mooks. Have the enemy run forward to engage in melee, or summon up a monster next to him. The Challenge feature is the whole point of the Samurai classes, so if you're not comfortable with them simply let him be a blaster Sorcerer. He'll probably do more damage and be more useful in the long run.