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Jormengand
2015-04-30, 12:08 PM
Okay, how about this: we go off and make another thread, where we design an entire new set - nay, perhaps an entire block - from the ground up. Setting, story, mechanics, the works - and enough commons, uncommons and rares to fill the format.

So, this is where we create our own new block. Apparently. This was an idea that I've had and a few other people kinda helped get it as far as it's got. The theme of the block is Playing Magic in a different way. The three sets are an artifact-based set, a set with new guild abilities, and a set with cantrips.

Oh, and there's a sixth colour. Just thought I'd mention that.

(Comprehensive rules: Firestorm over Innistrad)
105. Colors
105.1. There are five normal colors in the Magic game: white, blue, black, red, and green.
105.2. An object can be one or more of the five colors, or it can be no color at all, or it can me purple, or it can be purple and one or more of the five other colors. An object is the color or colors of the mana symbols in its mana cost, regardless of the color of its frame. An object's color or colors may also be defined by a color indicator or a characteristic-defining ability. See rule 202.2.
105.2a A monocolored object is exactly one of the six colors.
105.2b A multicolored object is two or more of the six colors.
105.2c A colorless object has no color, not even purple.
105.3. Effects may change an object's color or give a color to a colorless object. If an effect gives an object a new color, the new color replaces all previous colors the object had (unless the effect said the object became that color "in addition" to its other colors). Effects may also make a colored object become colorless.
105.4. If a player is asked to choose a color, he or she must choose one of the six colors. "Multicolored" is not a color. Neither is "colorless." "Purple" is.
105.5. If an effect mentions "All colors" or "Each color", purple isn't included. A creature with an ability saying that it's all colors is white, blue, black, red and green. It isn't purple. An ability that asks for a permanent of each color doesn't check for a purple permanent.

106. Mana
106.1. Mana is the primary resource in the game. Players spend mana to pay costs, usually when casting spells and activating abilities.
106.1a There are six colors of mana: white, blue, purple, black, red, and green.
106.1b There are seven types of mana: white, blue, purple, black, red, green, and colorless.

107. Numbers and Symbols
107.4. The mana symbols are W, U, P, B, R and G [...]

107.4a There are six primary colored mana symbols: W is white, U blue, P purple, B black, R red, and G green. These symbols are used to represent colored mana, and also to represent colored mana in costs. Colored mana in costs can be paid only with the appropriate color of mana. See rule 202, "Mana Cost and Color."

202. Mana Cost and Color
202.2a The six colors are white, blue, purple, black, red, and green. The white mana symbol is represented by W, blue by U, purple by P black by B, red by R, and green by G

305. Lands
305.6. The basic land types are Plains, Island, Swamp, Mountain, and Forest. If an object uses the words "basic land type," it’s referring to one of these subtypes. A land with a basic land type has the intrinsic ability "T: Add [mana symbol] to your mana pool," even if the text box doesn't actually contain that text or the object has no text box. For Plains, [mana symbol] is W; for Islands, U; for Swamps, B; for Mountains, R; and for Forests, G. Cities have the intrinsic ability "T: Add P to your mana pool" even though City isn't a basic land type. See rule 107.4a. Also see rule 605, "Mana Abilities." Until recently, nobody had ever heard of Purple mana. How could a city, a congregation of humans who utterly destroy the land on which they live without reverence or care, be a source of mana? And yet, it was this very same left-fieldness, the selfsame strangeness, that led Trianna, a planeswalker from Veldan, to be able to draw mana from it. She realised that the power of mana on Veldan was being channeled through the creations of the people themselves.

However, Trianna's meddling did not go without consequence. Transplanar Rifts, which allowed anyone or anything to travel through, came between any plane that Trianna had visited and the planes where purple mana was more easily accessible. These rifts appeared first around the places of power, the idols, which were sucked through into the realms she had visited.

And so idols began to appear in Innistrad, Ravinica, Tarkir, Alarra and Veldan. Preachers stood at the strange structures, praying for a miracle that would deliver them from their enemies. Guilds harnessed the idols' powers to wage war on another front. Clans guarded the idols as though they were sacred. And Trianna put her head in her hands and moaned.

It got worse. The purple guilds wanted their idols back. The Quijuk, responsible for ensuring morals more than law, tried to steal back their idols with minimal loss of life. The quiet and reserved Kasstar, known for their eminent dishonour, took similar tactics, while the psychotic sociopaths of house Zelb killed anyone who got in their way, where as the enraged and flagrant house Waize burned entire buildings to get what they wanted. The Gidai, masters of the hunt, assassinated anyone and everyone to return the idols of the gods. Ravinica was under assault and half of them didn't even know it.

More obvious were the Trostan clan, who ravaged across the wastes of Tarkir defying any and all to oppose them. Purgators, strange mockeries of what it means to be a free being, fought with angel and demon alike across Innistrad. And then, Trianna decided to move in, just to add to the confusion. Nobody was quite sure who was fighting whom, but Trianna was determined to stop them. LL01 - Plains
LL02 - Island
LL03 - City
LL04 - Swamp
LL05 - Mountain
LL06 - Forest
CW01 –
CW02 –
CW03 –
CW04 –
CW05 –
CW06 –
CW07 –
CW08 –
CW09 –
CW10 –
CW11 –
CW12 –
CU01 –
CU02 –
CU03 –
CU04 –
CU05 –
CU06 –
CU07 –
CU08 –
CU09 –
CU10 –
CU11 –
CU12 –
CP01 –
Otherworld Legionary 2PP
Creature - Purgator C
Judgement (When a creature fighting, blocking or blocked by this creature would die, exile it instead.)
4/4
CP02 –
Purgatory Warden PP
Creature - Purgator C
Judgement (When a creature blocking or blocked by this creature dies, exile it instead.), Guardian for Purple (Whenever a purple card you control is targeted by a spell or ability, if this card is a valid target, you may change the target to this card.)
2/2
CP03 –
CP04 –
CP05 –
CP06 –
CP07 –
CP08 –
CP09 –
CP10 –
CP11 –
Seek and Destroy P
Sorcery - C
Draw a card.
Search your library for a card and exile it. Then shuffle your library.
To the Otherworld! Go!
CP12 –
CP13 –
CP14 –
CP15 –
CP16 –
CP17 –
CP18 –
CP19 –
CP20 –
CB01 –
CB02 –
CB03 –
CB04 –
CB05 –
CB06 –
CB07 –
CB08 –
CB09 –
CB10 –
CB11 –
CB12 –
CR01 –
CR02 –
CR03 –
CR04 –
CR05 –
CR06 –
CR07 –
Transplanar Rift RR
Instant - C
Transplanar Rift deals 3 damage to target creature or planeswalker.
There was a tremendous thunderclap, and then Garruk fell silently to the ground.
CR08 –
CR09 –
CR10 –
CR11 –
CR12 –
CG01 –
CG02 –
CG03 –
CG04 –
CG05 –
CG06 –
CG07 –
CG08 –
CG09 –
CG10 –
CG11 –
CG12 –
CA01 –
Totem of War 3
Artifact - Idol C
GGT: Energise each idol you control.
When you energise Totem of War, target creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
CA02 –
Idol of Life 1
Artifact - Idol C
WWT: Energise each idol you control.
When you energise idol of life, you gain 2 life.
CA03 –
CA04 –
CA05 –
CA06 –
CA07 –
CA08 –
CA09 –
CA10 –
CA11 –
CA12 –
CA13 –
CA14 –
CA15 –
CA16 –
CA17 –
CA18 –
CA19 –
CA20 –
CL01 –
Innistrad Rift
Land - C
T: Add P to your mana pool.
White or black permanents and spells are purple in addition to their other colours.
UW01 –
Idol Zealot - 2W
Creature - Human U
WT: energize each idol you control
He sits at the base of each one for hours and worships them.
1/2
UW02 –
Defender of the Sacred 2W
Creature - Human Soldier U
Protection from Purple.
Idols you control have Protection from Purple.
UW03 –
UW04 –
UW05 –
UW06 –
UW07 –
Emergency Shield 0
Instant - U (W colour indicator)
As an additional cost to cast Emergency Shield, pay 10 life.
Prevent the next 4 damage that would be dealt to target creature or player.
UU01 –
UU02 –
UU03 –
UU04 –
UU05 –
UU06 –
UU07 –
Emergency Counterspell 0
Instant - U (U colour indicator)
As an additional cost to cast Emergency Counterspell, pay 10 life.
Counter target spell.
UP01 –
UP02 –
UP03 –
UP04 –
UP05 –
UP06 –
Evict P
Sorcery - U
Exile target creature or land you control.
Draw a card.
You have failed. Who's next?
UP07 –
Emergency Removal 0
Sorcery U (P colour indicator)
As an additional cost to cast Emergency Removal, pay 10 life.
Exile target nonland permanent.
UP08 –
Void Dance 1P
Sorcery - U
Exile any number of target permanents you own.
What was ours once will be ours forever.
UP09 –
UP10 –
UP11 –
UP12 –
UP13 –
UB01 –
UB02 –
UB03 –
UB04 –
UB05 –
UB06 –
UB07 –
Emergency Weaken 0
Instant - U (B colour indicator)
As an additional cost to cast Emergency Weaken, pay 10 life.
Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
UR01 –
UR02 –
UR03 –
UR04 –
UR05 –
UR06 –
UR07 –
Emergency Fire 0
Instant - U (R colour indicator)
As an additional cost to cast Emergency Fire, pay 10 life.
Emergency Fire deals 4 damage to target creature or player.
UG01 –
Sanity Guardian GG
Creature - Human Druid U
Protection from purple.
I will not entertain the horrors of the void.
2/3
UG02 –
UG03 –
UG04 –
UG05 –
UG06 –
UG07 –
Emergency Empower 0
Instant - U (G colour indicator)
As an additional cost to cast Emergency Empower, pay 10 life.
Target creature gets +2/+2 until end of turn.
UZ01 -
Otherworld Overgrowth 2PG
Creature - Plant R
Judgement (When a creature fighting, blocking or blocked by this creature dies, exile it)
At the start of your upkeep, put a token that's a copy of Otherworld Overgrowth onto the battlefield under your control.
If you see one, kill it. If you see two, run. If you see four, pray that the Otherworld is a nice place to live.
1/1
UA01 –
Serpent Totem 4
Artifact - Idol U
BBT: Energise each idol you control.
When you energise Serpent Totem, you may put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.
UA02 –
Idol of the Light 3
Artifact - Idol U
WW: Energise each idol you control.
When you energise Idol of the Light, you may put a creature card with Converted Mana Cost 1 from your graveyard into your hand.
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
UA03 –
Warrior's Shrine 4
Artifact - Idol U
WWT: Energise all idols you control
When you energise Warrior's Shrine, put a 1/1 white soldier creature token onto the battlefield under your control.
UA04 –
UA05 –
UA06 –
UA07 –
UA08 –
UA09 –
UA10 –
UA11 –
UA12 –
UA13 –
UA14 –
UA15 –
UL01 –
UL02 –
UL03 –
UL04 –
UL05 –
RW01 –
RW02 –
RW03 –
RW04 –
RW05 –
RU01 –
Perpetual Motion 4UU
Enchantment - R
When you cast a spell, draw a card.
Everything tends to chaos, except when I say so.
RU02 –
RU03 –
RU04 –
RU05 –
RP01 –
RP02 –
RP03 –
RP04 –
RP05 –
Dust to Dust P
Sorcery R
Exile target graveyard.
Everything tends to chaos.
RP06 –
Otherworldly Power 3PP
Sorcery - R
Otherworldly power deals X damage divided as you wish between any number of creatures and players and you gain X life, where X is the number of cards in exile.
They may be in a better place, but they are no worse magi for that.
RP07 –
Lexicon of the World Asunder PPP
Enchantment - R
When you tap a land for mana, you may add 1 mana of any colour that land produced to your mana pool. If you do, exile it.
RP08 –
RB01 –
RB02 –
RB03 –
RB04 –
RB05 –
RR01 –
Idolator Dragon 4RR
Creature - Dragon R
Flying
Trove 2: Energise target idol.
Trove 5: Energise each idol you control. (To trove X, tap X untapped artifacts you control.)
Far too many religious symbols have been stolen by dragons to build their hoards, but never like this.
RR02 –
RR03 –
RR04 –
RR05 –
RG01 –
Guardian of Natural Law 3GG
Creature - Human Druid R
Guardian for Green (When a green card you control is the target of a spell, if Guardian of Natural Law is a valid target, you may change the target to Guardian of Natural Law.), Protection from Purple
I will defend you all I can, but there are some things even I will not touch.
4/5
RG02 –
RG03 –
RG04 –
RG05 –
RZ01 -
Shadow Guardian WBR
Creature - Human Assassin R
Guardian for humans (Whenever a human you control is targeted by a spell or ability, if this card is a valid target, you may change the target to this card.)
I will be there when you need me. Until then, I wait in the shadows.
RZ02 -
Otherworld Flames 1RP
Sorcery - R
Otherworld Flames deals 1 damage to each creature and each player.
Otherworlder 3RP (If this card is in exile, you may cast it for its Otherworlder cost).
RA01 –
Scarab of Death 4
Artifact Creautre - Insect Idol R
WBT: Energise each idol you control.
When you energise Scarab of Death, put a +1/+1 counter on it.
1/3
RA02 –
Icon Walker 6
Artifact - Idol R
As Icon Walker enters the battlefield, choose a creature type.
GGT: Energise each idol you control.
When you energise Icon Walker, put a charge counter on it.
Creatures of the chosen type you control get +1/+1 for each charge counter on Icon Walker.
RA03 –
Sigil of Time 5
Artifact - Idol R
UUT: Energise each idol you control.
When you energise Sigil of Time, put the fifth card from the top of your library into your hand.
I can't give you what you want, but I can give you what you will want.
- Inscription on the Sigil of Time in Innistrad.
RA04 –
Shaman's Spear 2
Artifact - Idol Equipment R
Equip 1
RRT: Energise each idol you control.
When you energise Shaman's Spear, equipped creature gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
RA05 –
Temple Sword 3
Artifact - Equipment Idol R
Equip 2
RGT: Empower each idol you control.
When you empower Temple Sword, put a Worship counter on it.
Equipped creature gets +1/+1 for each Worship counter on Temple Sword.
RA06 –
Idol of Ascension 3
Artifact - Idol R
UUT: Activate all idols you control.
When you activate Idol of Ascention, put an ascendant counter on it.
Remove 3 ascendant counters from Idol of Ascention: draw a card.
RA07 –
Armour Indomitable 1
Artifact - Idol Equipment R
WWT: Energise each idol you control.
When you energise Armour Indomitable, put a charge counter on it and you may equip it to target creature.
Equipped creature gets +0/+X, where X is the number of charge counters on Armour Indomitable.
RA08 –
RL01 –
Magic Market
Land R
W: Add UG to your mana pool.
U: Add WP to your mana pool.
P: Add UB to your mana pool.
B: Add PR to your mana pool.
R: Add BG to your mana pool.
G: Add WR to your mana pool.
RL02 –
Flatland Village
Land - Plains City R
(T: Add W or P to your mana pool)
As Flatland Village enters the battlefield, you may pay 2 life. If you don't, Flatland Village enters the battlefield tapped.
RL03 –
Floating Settlement
Land - Island City R
(T: Add U or P to your mana pool)
As Floating Settlement enters the battlefield, you may pay 2 life. If you don't, Floating Settlement enters the battlefield tapped.
RL04 –
Foetid Moat
Land - City Swamp R
(T: Add P or R to your mana pool)
As Foetid Moat enters the battlefield, you may pay 2 life. If you don't, Foetid Moat enters the battlefield tapped.
RL05 –
Clifftop Fort
Land - City Mountain R
(T: Add P or R to your mana pool)
As Clifftop Fort enters the battlefield, you may pay 2 life. If you don't, Clifftop Fort enters the battlefield tapped.
RL06 –
Town Park
Land - City Forest R
(T: Add P or G to your mana pool)
As Town Park enters the battlefield, you may pay 2 life. If you don't, Town Park enters the battlefield tapped.
MW01 –
Kulumarthu the Protector 4WWWW
Legendary Creature - Angel MR
Kulumarthu the Protector is indestructible.
Guardian for everything (Whenever anything you control is targeted by a spell or ability, if this card is a valid target, you may change the target to this card.)
0/8
MW02 –
MU01 –
MU02 –
MP01 –
Storm of Idols 6PP
Enchantment - MR
At the start of your upkeep, you may put an idol from your hand into play and energise it.
The heavens opened, and carved stones and holy altars rained from the sky like great meteors, promising power to whoever sought them out.
MP02 –
MP03 –
MB01 –
MB02 –
MR01 –
MR02 –
MG01 –
MG02 –
MA01 –
Akarios, the Forgotten Guardian 12
Legendary Artifact Creature - Idol God
Affinity for idols, indestructible.
If Akarios, the Forgotten Guardian has fewer than 5 +1/+1 counters, he's not a creature.
When a creature your opponent controls dies, energise all idols you control.
When you energise Akarios, put a +1/+1 counter on him.
-4/-4
MA02 –
Idol of the World Asunder 15
Legendary artifact - Idol MR
Affinity for Idols
WUPBRGT: Energise each idol you control five times.

Yes, we need more commons and yes, that's mainly my fault for not including enough of them. So help me make more. :smalltongue:

Whether you like purple cards existing or not, feel free to provide guidance, new cards, more storyline, new ideas, and ways of adding the current ideas to existing Magic storyline.

CantigThimble
2015-04-30, 12:40 PM
A clarification before I dig in, cities are not basic and so you can have only 4 in your deck and if you want em you need to draft em?

Jormengand
2015-04-30, 01:17 PM
A clarification before I dig in, cities are not basic and so you can have only 4 in your deck and if you want em you need to draft em?

City cards are basic lands with the City subtype but City isn't a basic land type. City does have an intrinsic mana property as though it were a basic land type. Coalition Victory won't ask whether or not you control a city, but evolving wilds can search for cities and cities tap for P even if they don't say they do.

You can include as many cities as you want in your deck and they don't need to be drafted.

Targ Collective
2015-04-30, 01:27 PM
If you're this revolutionary, you might want to consider a game thread for this. Don't play Magic myself, but I imagine plenty of people would be interested. Structured Games, of course.

r2d2go
2015-04-30, 01:32 PM
Hm, I could help, but only if we can move on to a new set/block after finishing the Purple one :smalltongue:

CantigThimble
2015-04-30, 01:43 PM
for purple mechanics, how about attaching things they exile to permanents, kinda like haunt? Judgement would keep them attached to the purgator, spells would choose permanents to attatch to ect, this could let you get exile interaction without blowing legacy to smithereens with the sheer number of infinite combos.

Edit: A flaw in the current plan,the current story calls for 5 purple groups each with their own mechanics and purples mechanics themselves to be added in the same block. That's 6-7 new designs, just for purple, do other colors get things too?

Ninjaman
2015-04-30, 01:43 PM
Hm, I could help, but only if we can move on to a new set/block after finishing the Purple one :smalltongue:

I feel the same way.

Jormengand
2015-04-30, 02:23 PM
I feel the same way.

Sure. Plus, you can make all of the non-purple cards for the block. :smalltongue:


for purple mechanics, how about attaching things they exile to permanents, kinda like haunt? Judgement would keep them attached to the purgator, spells would choose permanents to attatch to ect, this could let you get exile interaction without blowing legacy to smithereens with the sheer number of infinite combos.

Edit: A flaw in the current plan,the current story calls for 5 purple groups each with their own mechanics and purples mechanics themselves to be added in the same block. That's 6-7 new designs, just for purple, do other colors get things too?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. If you wrote it out in full wording as an example that'd be cool.

See, they're basically like a new cycle of Ravinica guilds, and Trostan/Veldan are the equivalent of the Tarkir and Alarra groups.

As for other colours getting things, they'll have new cards, and Guardian isn't a purple keyword specifically, so they get Guardian, and anyone can have idols so they get idols.

Blue Ghost
2015-04-30, 02:34 PM
Set design is a difficult process. If we're going to do this, I want to do it right. This is a major project, and may possibly necessitate multiple threads.

We should start with the exploratory phase. Establish the groundwork. First question is, what do we want to do with the set? What do we want it to play like? So far we have a sixth color, if we're all agreed we want to do a purple set (personally, I'm not too fond of it, but it has potential). Why do we have a sixth color? What purpose will it serve in the game? What makes this set stand out? In short, we have to have a design goal.

Then we'll want to brainstorm how to implement that design goal. What kinds of mechanics we want, stuff like that.

I'm working on a set of my own, if anyone wants to help with that. If anyone's interested, you can PM me for details.

CantigThimble
2015-04-30, 02:45 PM
Now that I'm back to my desktop:

Replacement for judgement:
Assimilate (Whenever a creature fighting, blocked or blocked by this creature would die this turn, exile it bound to this creature.)

Ethereal Portal 3PP
Sorcery
Rift 5 (As you cast this spell you may counter it, if you do you may cast a spell bound to a permanent you control with converted mana cost 5 or less.)
Exile target creature.

Void Visions 1P
Sorcery
Draw a card, then exile this card bound to a permanent you control. Whenever another card is bound to the same permanent as this card, draw a card and put Void Visions into its owner's graveyard.

Jormengand
2015-04-30, 02:48 PM
Set design is a difficult process. If we're going to do this, I want to do it right. This is a major project, and may possibly necessitate multiple threads.

Granted


We should start with the exploratory phase. Establish the groundwork. First question is, what do we want to do with the set? What do we want it to play like? So far we have a sixth color, if we're all agreed we want to do a purple set (personally, I'm not too fond of it, but it has potential). Why do we have a sixth color? What purpose will it serve in the game? What makes this set stand out? In short, we have to have a design goal.

Well, the idea of the block was to put some of the weird and wacky ideas of playing magic in a new way in their own confined space, so you got things like purple and idols which both required their own assorted baggage and ended up carting them all into one place and one storyline. Mainly so that people who don't like the purple cards don't have to deal with them in the other threads, and also so we can also have all the idols somewhere useful.

Purple is, I suppose, the colour of mystery, untapped potential, and not quite fitting into one or even more than one of the predetermined boxes that everyone else bundles their way into:

My colour is purple. I value individuality and thought, I value justice and personal benefit, I value natural and mechanical. I take what I see as the best aspects of the world out of their context, and live it to the full, but also stand by my own way of thinking with utter disregard for the opinions of others. At my best, I am innovative and a maverick. At my worst, I am debased and an outcast. Nominally, my ally colours are blue and black, and my enemy colours are green and, to a lesser extent white and red, but in reality, I could be anyone's ally and my own worst enemy.

I am purple and white. I value personal discipline and excellence. I am a natural-born leader, and work to defeat tyrannical rulers and follow my dreams, helping others whenever I can. At my best, I am charitable and inspiring. At my worst, I am proselytising and over-zealous.

I am purple and blue. I enjoy escaping to my own company and thinking about the things of this world. I am so much better at considering things I can't see than other people that sometimes people ask whether or not I am real. At my best, I am intellectual and honest. At my worst, I am pedantic and unrealistic.

I am purple and black. I am an individualist to the extreme, believing my way of doing things to be objectively correct. I get things done at an alarming rate, ignoring anyone who thinks they know better than me. At my best, I am efficient and self-sufficient. At my worst I am over-proud and egocentric.

I am purple and red. I am loud and boisterous, and prepared to go with any scheme even without support. I am usually maniacal about something, and love being free from what the rest of the world things. At my best I am independent and confident. At my worst I am destructive and hot-headed.

I am purple and green. I can lose myself in the wilds easily, and much prefer the company of the outdoors to the company of humans, though I'm not averse to taking very close friends along with me. At my best I am carefree and impassive, at my worst I am reserved and distant.


Then we'll want to brainstorm how to implement that design goal. What kinds of mechanics we want, stuff like that.

Again, we have a list which is subject to being changed:

Purgators P
Mechanics: Judgement (When a creature fighting, blocking or blocked by this creature dies, exile it), Otherworlder {Cost} (If this card is in exile, you may cast it for {Cost})

House Quijuk WP
Mechanics: Silenced (This permanent loses all abilities except silenced, and its equipment and auras have no effect except granting Silenced), Revivify (Return target card from exile to your hand)

House Kasstar UP
Mechanics: Warpstrike {cost} (When ~ becomes blocked you may pay {cost}. If you do, exile ~ and return it to the battlefield under your control, tapped and attacking.), Shift (Whenever ~ is targeted you may return it to your hand and put another creature with the same or lower converted mana cost onto the battlefield which then becomes the target instead. That card cannot Shift this turn.)

House Zelb PB
Mechanics: Isolation (Spells and abilities which effect "all" or "each" do not effect this card),
Outcast (Permanents with outcast cannot be exiled)

House Waize PR
Mechanics: Flamestorm X (When a spell you control would deal noncombat damage, it deals X more instead), Second Wind - If you've cast another spell this turn, do X.

House Gidai PG
Mechanics: Lock In (Target a card and remember what card it is); Paragon - If X has the highest power among creatures you control, [effect].

Clan Trostan WPR
Mechanics: Standalone - If you control no (other) creatures, [effect]; Substitute - If there are no valid targets/you can't/no Xs are Yed in this way, [effect].

Veldan UPB
Mechanics: Conversion {Cost} (Cost, reveal ~ from your hand: Target spell you control becomes a copy of ~. If applicable, X is equal to the CMC of that spell); One Eye Open - When you draw a card, do X.


I'm working on a set of my own, if anyone wants to help with that. If anyone's interested, you can PM me for details.

Mm, I might at that. See how this goes.


Now that I'm back to my desktop:

Replacement for judgement:
Assimilate (Whenever a creature fighting, blocked or blocked by this creature would die this turn, exile it bound to this creature.)

Ethereal Portal 3PP
Sorcery
Rift 5 (As you cast this spell you may counter it, if you do you may cast a spell bound to a permanent you control with converted mana cost 5 or less.)
Exile target creature.

Void Visions 1P
Sorcery
Draw a card, then exile this card bound to a permanent you control. Whenever another card is bound to the same permanent as this card, draw a card and put Void Visions into its owner's graveyard.

That's some neat ideas, but I worry that the interactions will be too complicated to be worth doing. You have to bind multiple things to the same dude, and make sure he doesn't die or that'll ruin everything.

Blue Ghost
2015-04-30, 02:53 PM
That's a lot of mechanics they have there. Normally a set only has about five mechanics, and the best ones serve to highlight the theme of the set. What are you trying to achieve with these mechanics? What kind of gameplay do you want the set to have?

All the mechanics are purple? Magic sets generally balance their colors nowadays. Making a set entirely focused on a single color could possibly work, but for limited purposes, that's dangerous. What are the non-purple decks going to do?

Jormengand
2015-04-30, 03:04 PM
That's a lot of mechanics they have there. Normally a set only has about five mechanics, and the best ones serve to highlight the theme of the set. What are you trying to achieve with these mechanics? What kind of gameplay do you want the set to have?

All the mechanics are purple? Magic sets generally balance their colors nowadays. Making a set entirely focused on a single color could possibly work, but for limited purposes, that's dangerous. What are the non-purple decks going to do?

Well, the non-purple decks will still be able to play some of the new keywords because there'll be some monored Flamestorm and some UB One Eye Open. The kind of gameplay I expect is monopurple exile, Quijuk control, Kasstar combos, Zelb wrath-based (because Zelb are immune to their own wraths), Waize aggro/semi-burn, Gidai big creatures and fighting, but also being able to single out single targets for elimination, Trostan burn and heal, and Veldan card draw.

Firestorm over Innistrad - the first set in the block - is going to have a lot of the single-colour things in it, and if you look at the set skeleton you'll notice I've put in only slightly more spaces for purple cards than anything else. Firestorm over Ravinica will have all the two-colour decks in, and Firestorm over the Multiverse will build up to the three-colour combinations, but in FotM you'll have groups of green cards for the people who aren't getting any parts of the Trostan wedge or Veldan arc. FoR will allow you to play around with the non-purple half of a guild, though going dual with purple will get you the most out of them. FoI lets you play perfectly well with any one colour.

Blue Ghost
2015-04-30, 03:16 PM
Hmm, I guess that might work. Still not sure how cohesive a block this would be. Maybe it would work better as three standalone sets? In which case we might design one set at a time?

Jormengand
2015-04-30, 03:19 PM
Hmm, I guess that might work. Still not sure how cohesive a block this would be. Maybe it would work better as three standalone sets? In which case we might design one set at a time?

Well, it probably doesn't make that much difference, since my plan was to worry about FoI first anyway.

Blue Ghost
2015-04-30, 03:27 PM
The mechanics you listed were for all the multicolor factions. If we're starting with a monocolor set, should we make the mechanics for them first?

So it looks like purple plays around with the exile space? I guess we could have the set have exile as its mechanical theme. We could explore ways the existing five colors can play with exile, and what differences purple can bring to the mix.

Jormengand
2015-04-30, 03:33 PM
The mechanics you listed were for all the multicolor factions. If we're starting with a monocolor set, should we make the mechanics for them first?

So it looks like purple plays around with the exile space? I guess we could have the set have exile as its mechanical theme. We could explore ways the existing five colors can play with exile, and what differences purple can bring to the mix.

Well, I came up with all the stuff jumbled at once. The current monopurple mechanics are Judgement and Otherworlder.

Yeah, exile's part of it. Another purple thing I thought of was drawbacks that benefit your opponent rather than the black drawbacks that disadvantage you, the red drawbacks that are random, or the blue drawbacks that commit seppuku if you target them. Things like a colourshifted Path to Exile would fit, though just colourshifting things probably isn't a great idea. Maybe mechanics to represent purple's focus on the individual?

Blue Ghost
2015-04-30, 03:41 PM
I think we should start by focusing on the set as a whole, rather than just the purple portion of it. How do we want the set to play like? You said you want it to be playing Magic in a new way, but what does that mean exactly?

I don't think a "purple set" would work, for the same reason a "black set" doesn't work.

braveheart
2015-04-30, 03:56 PM
I think it's very important that we establish how many of each type of spell we want in addition to rarity and color, clearly we have a lot of common and uncommon slots to fill, and a few simple cycles would really help that out. Additionally I'd suggest we put flavor text on anything that has room for it, to push the story.

Targ Collective
2015-04-30, 04:21 PM
I know enough about game theory to know that *any* set can work, but it can be harder to make it work in some cases than others. It's just a question of making sure it plays right. Never say it can't be done!

CantigThimble
2015-04-30, 04:55 PM
Might it not be prudent to see how easily we can design a more normal set before trying to do all the block designing things for the first time with the difficulty squared by the addition of purple? What about a set about introducing idols?

Jormengand
2015-05-01, 03:36 PM
I think we should start by focusing on the set as a whole, rather than just the purple portion of it. How do we want the set to play like? You said you want it to be playing Magic in a new way, but what does that mean exactly?

Well, I'd like to give a lot of options. The idol cards, for example, mean that you can play by building up the amount of stuff you can do with 2 mana - I can get 2 life, I can get 4 life, I can get 4 life and put a +1/+1 counter somewhere, and so forth. The guild abilities were to inspire odd styles of play - for example, Veldan can just draw lots of cards and doesn't need to do anything with them because One Eye Open handles that for them, so they can keep on just drawing cards that draw cards.


I don't think a "purple set" would work, for the same reason a "black set" doesn't work.

True, though black didn't need to have a big entrance and new things to get it up to speed with the other colours. But it's not just a purple set. One of the new ways of playing Magic is a new colour, but there are other new ways. I was hoping people could help me work out what they are.


I think it's very important that we establish how many of each type of spell we want in addition to rarity and color, clearly we have a lot of common and uncommon slots to fill, and a few simple cycles would really help that out. Additionally I'd suggest we put flavor text on anything that has room for it, to push the story.

Well, I've currently got a skeleton with 6 LL, 12 CW, 12 CU, 20 CP, 12 CB, 12 CG, 20 CA, 1 CL, 7 UW, 7 UU, 13 UP, 7 UB, 7 UR, 7 UG, 1 UZ, 15 UA, 5 UL, 5 RW, 5 RU, 8 RP, 5 RB, 5 RR, 5 RG, 2 RZ, 8 RA, 6 RL, 2 MW, 2 MU, 3 MP, 2 MB, 2 MR, 2 MG, 2 MA. All of those numbers are subject to change, and only the LL, CL, UZ, RZ, RL, and MA slots are actually filled so far anyway.


Might it not be prudent to see how easily we can design a more normal set before trying to do all the block designing things for the first time with the difficulty squared by the addition of purple? What about a set about introducing idols?

Rise to the challenge. There are idols enough, but we can't have everything revolving around idols anyway.

Blue Ghost
2015-05-01, 10:35 PM
True, though black didn't need to have a big entrance and new things to get it up to speed with the other colours. But it's not just a purple set. One of the new ways of playing Magic is a new colour, but there are other new ways. I was hoping people could help me work out what they are.

The intention of the black set was to give it a day in the limelight. It suffered major developmental issues from unbalanced limited play. A purple set will have the same issues.

As I said, this could be an exile-focused set. Also, maybe we can have an in-story reason why there's a new color of Magic, and have the gameplay reflect that. Perhaps the purples are beings crossing over from an alternate multiverse, and the natives of this multiverse have to deal with that? Purple could be set as playing wildly differently from the rest of the colors, while the other colors try to fight against an unforeseen threat, or adapt to a potential ally, in new ways.

But it doesn't seem people are really enthusiastic about a purple set. You're the only one who's pushing it, while we've already had objections from quite a few people. Maybe we should consider a different idea that has more community support?

Ninjaman
2015-05-02, 07:59 AM
But it doesn't seem people are really enthusiastic about a purple set. You're the only one who's pushing it, while we've already had objections from quite a few people. Maybe we should consider a different idea that has more community support?

I agree, it's called Let's make a block, so let's make one from scratch, when you started this thread you already had a good idea what this block was going to be about.

I think a good place to start would be finding the plane the set would be on.

Ideas:
Invent a plane completely from scratch.
Planechase introduced a lot of new planes that we know very little about, these could be fun to explore.
We could make the third set in the iceage - coldsnap block.
Return to an old plane (Alara, dominaria, rabia).

r2d2go
2015-05-02, 10:24 PM
I agree, it's called Let's make a block, so let's make one from scratch, when you started this thread you already had a good idea what this block was going to be about.

I think a good place to start would be finding the plane the set would be on.

Ideas:
Invent a plane completely from scratch.
Planechase introduced a lot of new planes that we know very little about, these could be fun to explore.
We could make the third set in the iceage - coldsnap block.
Return to an old plane (Alara, dominaria, rabia).

Well, a planeswalker game I was DMing until it appeared to die recently had a plane. I only had a skeleton and an antagonist written out, the setting document is here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/11vfCsUX8J8WOhzuxUs-y4lVsLhJLTE532-_jyQz3MVY) if it looks good.

Though, I think the reason Jorm made the thread was to make a specifically purple block :smalltongue: I'm not against that, though if people really don't like it, there should probably be another thread made rather than using this thread.

Jormengand
2015-05-03, 12:24 PM
Well, a planeswalker game I was DMing until it appeared to die recently had a plane. I only had a skeleton and an antagonist written out, the setting document is here (https://docs.google.com/document/d/11vfCsUX8J8WOhzuxUs-y4lVsLhJLTE532-_jyQz3MVY) if it looks good.

Though, I think the reason Jorm made the thread was to make a specifically purple block :smalltongue: I'm not against that, though if people really don't like it, there should probably be another thread made rather than using this thread.

The reason is given in the quote at the very top of the OP. The whole point of this was to the benefit of those who didn't like Purple by giving it its own little corner.

r2d2go
2015-05-03, 01:12 PM
...Just to be clear, we're saying the same things, right? You intended this thread to be for purple/other such things rather than having those things in the YMTC thread. And so presumably, if people want to make a set that doesn't allow purple, since that's defeat the point of making the thread, there should probably be a new one.

Jormengand
2015-05-03, 01:42 PM
...Just to be clear, we're saying the same things, right? You intended this thread to be for purple/other such things rather than having those things in the YMTC thread. And so presumably, if people want to make a set that doesn't allow purple, since that's defeat the point of making the thread, there should probably be a new one.

Yeah. Quoting someone doesn't necessarily mean that you're trying to argue with them. :smalltongue:

r2d2go
2015-05-03, 02:12 PM
Yeah. Quoting someone doesn't necessarily mean that you're trying to argue with them. :smalltongue:

Excellent :smallbiggrin:

Ninjaman
2015-05-03, 04:22 PM
So are anybody up for a thread about building a set from scratch?

Blue Ghost
2015-05-03, 05:47 PM
The reason is given in the quote at the very top of the OP. The whole point of this was to the benefit of those who didn't like Purple by giving it its own little corner.

Huh? Neither the quote nor its context say anything about purple. The quote is suggesting a community set/block design from the ground up, and the title seems to support that. If you want a thread for purple, that's fine, but you should make it clearer that that's the intention.

I've made a new thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?413239-MTG-Community-Set-Project-Discussion-Brainstorming-Exploratory-Design) for the community set project, if peeps are interested.

Jormengand
2015-05-03, 06:18 PM
Huh? Neither the quote nor its context say anything about purple. The quote is suggesting a community set/block design from the ground up, and the title seems to support that. If you want a thread for purple, that's fine, but you should make it clearer that that's the intention.

I've made a new thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?413239-MTG-Community-Set-Project-Discussion-Brainstorming-Exploratory-Design) for the community set project, if peeps are interested.

That's true, I didn't put the context in - the context was about idols and not purple, but it was basically "I don't know what all this stuff actually does on its own, let's put it in its own block".

Dr.Gunsforhands
2015-05-03, 06:31 PM
Actually, to play Devil's Advocate a little bit, Wizards has introduced a Sixth Color before. At least three times, in fact: Coldsnap, New Phyrexia, and Rise of the Eldrazi. We should be able to learn some lessons of accessibility and flavor identity from those sets.

Coldsnap's snow mana was interesting in that it had no real identity of its own and generally had to express itself via other colors. Its primary strength was that it was deliberately made, "splashable," via a number of common lands that could produce the mana.

Phyrexian mana feels like an alien color invading the plane, which works, but is secretly a Black mechanic that's been distributed to a bunch of nonblack cards, which works less. It does get something of an identity from the Infect mechanic, though. It also follows the principle of being splashable in any color.

Eldrazi mana, being colorless, doesn't seem like a new color mechanically, but it does find its identity in the set. It's colorless, but not artifact, and is generated in bursts of acceleration brought on by little alien spawn tokens. It avoids the pitfalls of the Phyrexian shtick primarily by having a fairly limited set of cards associated with it - the eldrazi themselves and their colorless mana-ramp enablers. It feels like a different color because the pile of mana from those enablers doesn't have much other use.

So, what does this mean for our heroes? It means that I can actually see this working, but it still kind of requires some tweaks regarding which cards we'll actually use and what they're going to look like. I have not yet looked into how the guilds actually work as you've made them, but on the whole they would be a great way of going about it, I suspect.

To wit, my proposals:

1. Find a flavor theme! I haven't read R2's setting yet, but my thoughts would center around the idea of five great houses vying for control of the unusual mana.

2. Look at the two-color purple combinations and figure out what each of them is actually supposed to do within the setting. Each one gets one mechanic, so that our brains don't explode. They will account for most of the new space in the set, and need to represent the civilized society of the plane as a whole, so they need to work together!

3. Fill most of the, 'purple,' card slots - especially the common and uncommon ones - with hybrid cards to flesh the color out in a less obtrusive way. No sense making everyone's mana even harder to balance than it already is.

Blue Ghost
2015-05-03, 06:39 PM
Oh, I don't doubt that purple could be made to work. I just think that the design so far is a bit lacking in foundation, and would benefit from starting from scratch.

If you're making a purple set, you have to define purple in the color pie. What is purple? What are its mechanical strengths and limitations? What is it flavor-wise? Can't be vague on this. The color pie is essential to Magic, and if you're messing with it, you want to keep it at least as strong as it was before.

I would suggest doing the brainstorming first, and not actually starting on card design until the concept is solid and fleshed out.

Jormengand
2015-05-03, 06:59 PM
What is purple?

Purple is severe maverick-ism, innovation, and generally being unconstrained by the limits that others impose on themselves - it's justice without honour, it's intelligence without overthought, it's personalism without selfishness, it's freedom without impulsiveness, it's vital existence without Ludditism, it's nonconformity without nondescriptness. It's coolness without coldness, it's sacrifice without self-harm.


What are its mechanical strengths and limitations?
Exile, cards with drawbacks that benefit your opponent unlike black's harming you, removing abilities, preventing certain actions, making your instants/sorceries more powerful... I'm thinking maybe stealing opponent's cards (not sure how, due to no opponent's cards in your non-battlefield zones being a set-in-iridium rule, buuut).

Weaknesses are that its creatures only go so big and they're usually not actually great, it doesn't have a great deal of direct damage either, and so it kinda needs another colour's help, or just slamming into your opponent with your fairly weak purgators, if it wants to win. Which I assume it does.


What is it flavor-wise?

I already posted the purple personality types.

Dr.Gunsforhands
2015-05-03, 09:08 PM
Purple is severe maverick-ism, innovation, and generally being unconstrained by the limits that others impose on themselves - it's justice without honour, it's intelligence without overthought, it's personalism without selfishness, it's freedom without impulsiveness, it's vital existence without Ludditism, it's nonconformity without nondescriptness. It's coolness without coldness, it's sacrifice without self-harm.

See, this is a problem that I have had for a while now. Those things are all black.


Exile, cards with drawbacks that benefit your opponent unlike black's harming you, removing abilities, preventing certain actions, making your instants/sorceries more powerful... I'm thinking maybe stealing opponent's cards (not sure how, due to no opponent's cards in your non-battlefield zones being a set-in-iridium rule, buuut).

...these things are all blue.


Weaknesses are that its creatures only go so big and they're usually not actually great, it doesn't have a great deal of direct damage either, and so it kinda needs another colour's help, or just slamming into your opponent with your fairly weak purgators, if it wants to win. Which I assume it does.

...and this stuff pretty much describes blue/black! While all colors have some big creatures - you wouldn't be able to deny them to a new color if you tried - the blue/black fatties often have drawbacks or rely on their goofy abilities more than their stats.

To be honest, the way you describe it here, it seems like you really just want to make blue/black cards. Black in M:tG doesn't just mean brooding and evil, you know. You can still make a set where the black creatures and organizations are the good guys.

Jormengand
2015-05-04, 06:16 AM
See, this is a problem that I have had for a while now. Those things are all black.

it's justice without honour, it's intelligence without overthought, it's personalism without selfishness, it's freedom without impulsiveness, it's vital existence without Ludditism, it's nonconformity without nondescriptness. It's coolness without coldness, it's sacrifice without self-harm.


...these things are all blue.

Exile isn't usually blue except in oddly specific circumstances ("...with X time counters on and it gains suspend", "Counter target spell and..."), and blue drawbacks are usually "This dies if you look at it funny". Don't know that blue makes your instants and sorceries better (apart from sometimes turning the latter into the former) much either.


...and this stuff pretty much describes blue/black! While all colors have some big creatures - you wouldn't be able to deny them to a new color if you tried - the blue/black fatties often have drawbacks or rely on their goofy abilities more than their stats.

Yeah, but black can cause direct life loss and black/blue can also mill things to death too.


To be honest, the way you describe it here, it seems like you really just want to make blue/black cards. Black in M:tG doesn't just mean brooding and evil, you know. You can still make a set where the black creatures and organizations are the good guys.

I know black doesn't always mean evil, and white doesn't always mean good, and if you tell Boros that red always means chaotic they'll just look at you funny. Everyone's favourite blue wizard from Innistrad probably isn't very lawful either, and I can't imagine he gets any more so for turning into a giant insect of DOOOM.

Purple may look like black/blue for the same reason that black looks a bit like blue/red (what's that, I'm making players lose life, drawing cards, and milling?) or green looks a tiny bit like white/red (healing myself and rushing up in people's faces to deal much damage, you say?). It's because they're allies. They're going to have some similarities.

Dr.Gunsforhands
2015-05-04, 11:17 PM
Hmm. I know you don't mean anything like, "see, it's like each of the other colors, but cooler," but that's the only way my brain is reading it. The idea of just taking a little bit of the pie from each other color even makes sense mechanically as I was approaching it, but I still don't see how it works in a flavor sense. I may need to actually keep my distance from the thread until I have a better idea of what you're going for.

braveheart
2015-05-05, 11:03 AM
Seeing as this block would be introducing purple, I think we need to consider what counters purple, and what purple would do to eternal formats as well. i can't claim to know what would happen, but I suspect it would either Completely alter the firmats eternally, or be mostly ignored. Also and perhaps more relevant is drafting and sealed, if purple has a bigger share of the set everyone is going to splash it, unless you provide people with some reason to play without it, my first idea to keep it more controlled.

Wild Bear GG
creature - Bear - U
Protection from purple
2/2

Shark From The Deeps UU
Ceatire - Fish - U
Protection from purple
2/2

Ancient Zombie BB
Creature - Zombie - U
Protection from purple
2/2

Forgotten Ork RR
Creature - Ork - U
Protection from purple
2/2

Lost Lion WW
Creature - Lion - U
Protection from purple
2/2


My thought is that with these people would want to avoid drafting pure purple and would instead splash it in, allowing for each player in a draft to be able to get some, not necessarily many, but some of the purple in the draft

Jormengand
2015-05-06, 10:51 AM
Seeing as this block would be introducing purple, I think we need to consider what counters purple, and what purple would do to eternal formats as well. i can't claim to know what would happen, but I suspect it would either Completely alter the firmats eternally, or be mostly ignored. Also and perhaps more relevant is drafting and sealed, if purple has a bigger share of the set everyone is going to splash it, unless you provide people with some reason to play without it, my first idea to keep it more controlled.

Wild Bear GG
creature - Bear - U
Protection from purple
2/2

Shark From The Deeps UU
Ceatire - Fish - U
Protection from purple
2/2

Ancient Zombie BB
Creature - Zombie - U
Protection from purple
2/2

Forgotten Ork RR
Creature - Ork - U
Protection from purple
2/2

Lost Lion WW
Creature - Lion - U
Protection from purple
2/2


My thought is that with these people would want to avoid drafting pure purple and would instead splash it in, allowing for each player in a draft to be able to get some, not necessarily many, but some of the purple in the draft

Mhm. A protection from purple cycle makes some level of sense. There are already spells that affect only things of certain colours, too, so those might work too.