Mystic Theurge

[badgerman]

Here is my try:

Strongheart Halfling FR:CS
Bonus Feat: Academic Priest DL:Legend of the Twins
1st level: Archivist HoH | Feat: Practiced Spellcaster CArc
2nd: Archivist
3rd level: Wizard PH1 | Trading the Scribe Scroll for a fighter bonus feat UA like Improved Initiative PH1, Improved Toughness CWar, Weapon Focus (Touch attack) PH1 | Feat: Practiced Spellcaster
4th level: Archivist
5th level: Wizard
6th level: Wizard | Feat: ???
7th level: Mystic Theurge DMG1
till
16th level: Mystic Theurge

I like this one, but I am not that sure if it could be powerful enough.

Hoping for your help selecting feats and judging the build.
By the way is there only one weapon focus (touch attack) or one for melee and one ranged ?
Thanks anyway.

[Yuki Akuma]

The thing about Mystic Theurge is that, while you have a ton of spells available to cast, you still only have one action per round - so in an average combat encounter, you'll only be casting two to four spells. Quicken Spell can help, but without metamagic reducers it's pretty steep. Divine Metamagic can be handy in that regard, but you're not going Cleric.

The other downside is that you'll always be at least one spell level behind, and you'll either never get 9th level spells, or one of your sides will be stuck at 7th level spells while the other gets 9ths.

Honestly you'd be better served just going straight Archivist. They can learn practically every spell in the game anyway thanks to Cleric domains, Shugenja and Druids. (Or literally every spell, with Alternate Source Spell shenanigans. Or that one PrC I forget the name of.)

About the only time Mystic Theurge is actually worthwhile is if you're going Arcane/Ur-Priest. That way you end up with dual 9s (and also a ridiculously high Ur-Priest caster level).

[Afgncaap5]

Yeah, one of the key things to remember about a Mystic Theurge is that they're not really about power so much as they're about versatility and utility, or about fleshing out a character concept that doesn't work as easily elsewhere. (Case in point, an Enchanter wizard can gain those pesky non-wizard enchantments like Command (though a 1-level dip in Cleric could do that as well), and a Necromancer Mystic Theurge can get a *big* gang of undead with relatively little effort.) If you're going for straight spell-power, Mystic Theurge isn't the best bet.

Now, if a character who accesses both arcane mysteries of the universe and calls upon divine favors from the cosmic forces that rule our lives is more important to you than a pitiable thing like in-game mechanical power? That's a great reason to be a Mystic Theurge. In that case, I'd figure out some specialization (Conjuration, Goodness, Fire, Coldness, etc.) and use that as a basis for figuring out how to empower yourself further.

As for the Touch Attack question... I think they're different. I'm also trying to remember if there's a valid difference between a Ranged Touch Attack and a Ray attack for the purposes of that feat.

[Vizzerdrix]

Strongheart halfling
Race-Education
HD1-Heighten Spell
HD3-Versatile Spellcaster
HD6 or 9-Least legacy

Sorc-1
Favored Soul-2
Mystic Theurge-10
Legacy Champion-7

Very Basic, but weak. Early entry and SAD but looses 9ths.

[badgerman]

....
Now, if a character who accesses both arcane mysteries of the universe and calls upon divine favors from the cosmic forces that rule our lives is more important to you than a pitiable thing like in-game mechanical power? That's a great reason to be a Mystic Theurge. In that case, I'd figure out some specialization (Conjuration, Goodness, Fire, Coldness, etc.) and use that as a basis for figuring out how to empower yourself further.
...

First, thanks for the answers.

I just recognized the post for the optimization challenge. This is not about participating at this challenge, it is just about creating a spellcaster. I liked this idea but I am not sure, if it would be character worth playing or if it has to many flaws and what it takes to make it playable.

I like the versatility but I am looking for a good option to specialize. Problem is that I am not that expierienced with the spells and the metamagic concept. So I need some noob-help:)

Thanks anyway

[badgerman]

Strongheart halfling
Race-Education
HD1-Heighten Spell
HD3-Versatile Spellcaster
HD6 or 9-Least legacy

Sorc-1
Favored Soul-2
Mystic Theurge-10
Legacy Champion-7

Very Basic, but weak. Early entry and SAD but looses 9ths.

Didn't even know the legacy champion thanks for that, but I don't understand how you meet the requirements for any of the prestige classes ??? Got it versatile spellcaster and heighten spell :smallredface: but what do you mean by looses 9ths ? I think i dont understand the mechanics of the leagcy champion. Are you able to take the class ability of the mystic theurge even when already maxed the theurge ?:smalleek:

[Yuki Akuma]

Didn't even know the legacy champion thanks for that, but I don't understand how you meet the requirements for any of the prestige classes ???

Early entry cheese using Heighten Spell and Versatile Spellcaster.

Essentially, combined, they allow you to use two first-level spell slots to cast a 2nd level spell (that is, a first level spell... Heightened to second level) which, under certain readings, allows you to enter Mystic Theurge 3 levels early. (The skill requirements are easily met by third level.)

[Afgncaap5]

I like the versatility but I am looking for a good option to specialize. Problem is that I am not that expierienced with the spells and the metamagic concept. So I need some noob-help:)

Thanks anyway

Well... possibly a rough answer, but if you've got a forgiving GM you *might* be able to retool your character on the fly if it's not fun for you. Personally I think the best way to learn the game is to take a few risks and make a few mistakes along the way. My second character was a Mystic Theurge (Wizard/Cleric) who wanted to be a performance mage, putting on legendary shows with his magic. It was a weird concept to work with (weirder than I initially thought it'd be, at least) especially since I gave the character a Charisma modifier of +0 for the performing. My DM approved a loosely gathered "Celebrity Domain" from bits and pieces of other domains, and while it was a weak one it was fun.

I was underpowered in a lot of ways, but overpowered in some other situational ones. More importantly, though, when I first used a divine spell to contact the cosmic force of celebrity to give me some advice, it took me a while to realize that my GM was doing his best Barney Stinson impersonation ("Like Neil Patrick Harris with a halo and wings, yes, that's what I'm saying.") and that's the kind of moment that no amount of optimization can generate.

Now, would a Bard 20 have been a more effective way to go at it than Wizard 3/Cleric 3/Mystic Theurge 7/Virtuoso 7? Probably. But ultimately, I was really, really happy with it.

So... yeah. If you don't think you'll have fun playing the character as you see it, do something else. But there's also something to be said for seeing where an unusual rabbit trail will take you.

[bekeleven]

Didn't even know the legacy champion thanks for that, but I don't understand how you meet the requirements for any of the prestige classes ???

He's using an old CharOp trick:

Versatile Spellcaster lets you exchange to LvX spell slots from a spontaneous casting list for a single X+1 spell slot. Note that it's worded poorly, and can get very abusive for a number of reasons. The important thing here is that having two level 1 spell slots enables him to create a level 2 spell slot from any spontaneous casting list.

Heighten Spell lets him cast a 1st level spell as a 2nd level spell in all respects.

Thus, as long as he has at least 2 first-level spell slots, a first-level spell known, and those two feats, he is "Able to cast 2nd level spells" in those classes, qualifying for Theurge.

Even if you allow Versatile Spellcaster to gain spell slots of higher levels than you normally know, you still need to houserule it because it technically doesn't prevent a character from applying the new spell slot to a class other than the one that gave up the spell slots. As you can imaging this gets crazy fast.

Another common early-entry trick is using the illumian race from Races of Destiny, which has a feat to do basically the same thing as this. AFB But I think it was Improved Sigil (Krau) or something?

[badgerman]

So... yeah. If you don't think you'll have fun playing the character as you see it, do something else. But there's also something to be said for seeing where an unusual rabbit trail will take you.

At least your'e right: its for the fun of it and just a game. So let's play and see what happens.

But it's sort of new situation in our group. We are moving from roleplaying to simply dungeoncrawling and tabletop. Most of our guys are located around the world and we don't manage to play long sessions anymore due to the lack of time. So we meet online once per week for about 4 hours to play and stay in contact.
So if it was about roleplay I would say 'hell ya, gimme my factotum, bard, ... and lets PLAY.' But now its about tabletop so i want to WIN :smallbiggrin:

[Yuki Akuma]

The amusing part is, of course, that a well-optimised Factotum or Bard can easily keep up with most Mystic Theurge builds, or even surpass them in certain respects. :smallwink:

[atemu1234]

The thing about Mystic Theurge is that, while you have a ton of spells available to cast, you still only have one action per round - so in an average combat encounter, you'll only be casting two to four spells. Quicken Spell can help, but without metamagic reducers it's pretty steep. Divine Metamagic can be handy in that regard, but you're not going Cleric.

The other downside is that you'll always be at least one spell level behind, and you'll either never get 9th level spells, or one of your sides will be stuck at 7th level spells while the other gets 9ths.

Honestly you'd be better served just going straight Archivist. They can learn practically every spell in the game anyway thanks to Cleric domains, Shugenja and Druids. (Or literally every spell, with Alternate Source Spell shenanigans. Or that one PrC I forget the name of.)

About the only time Mystic Theurge is actually worthwhile is if you're going Arcane/Ur-Priest. That way you end up with dual 9s (and also a ridiculously high Ur-Priest caster level).

A Strongheart Halfling Ur-Priest sounds hilarious.

[TIPOT]

Generally Mystic Theurge gets overly bashed. While probably not as strong as a straight wizard or other tier 1 class, it's easily a tier 3 build (unless you go bard/paladin or something). By having access to basically every spell in the game you'll generally always be relevant (and you shouldn't run out of spells due to how many you get).

So in answer to the original question, that build should be fine unless you're in a party of an optimised druid, Codzilla and a paranoid wizard. I wouldn't bother specializing as it just limits your spell choices but that's personal preference really.

[Troacctid]

A Wizard- or Cleric-based Mystic Theurge with an early entry trick is still stronger than a Sorcerer. You only lose one level of Wizard or Cleric casting, which is just bringing you down to the same level as Sorcerers, except with ten zillion more spells known.

[Dolour]

mystic theurge starts to get real nice if you stack a second class with dual caster progression ontop of it.
or actually its more like the other way around, and youll be stacking mt ontop of whatever. :p

depending on the level of cheese considered within limits, you could roll with something like:
3 druid / 1 wizard / 10 arcane hierophant / 4 mystic theurge / 1 radiant servant / 1 sacred exorzist
(using Versatile Spellcaster or Precocious Apprentice for early entry into myst.theurge)

youll end up with lvl9 divine & lvl8 arcane spells, DMM, a nice hybrid companion, 17hd wildhape, have enough
toys to make your wizard buddy go sob ina corner, and still remain eligible for epic AH levels.

/edit:
Essentially, combined, they allow you to use two first-level spell slots to cast a 2nd level spell (that is, a first level spell... Heightened to second level)
wouldnt that work without highten for wizards, since you can scribe spells your not able to cast yet, wich allso qualifies as "known" spell?
or is spontaneous casting a prereq for this one?

[Chronos]

Spontaneous casting is a prerequisite to take the feat, but once you have it, it works with any sort of spell slot. And conveniently, almost all divine full-casters (all except archivist, I think) can cast spells spontaneously. It's only a limited set of spells for cleric or druid (cures and summons respectively), but that's still enough to qualify.

[Troacctid]

Personally, I would go the Illumian route. It is by far the least cheesy method IMO--unlike basically every other trick, it actually matches the designers' intent for the ability. Furthermore, it only takes one feat instead of two or three, and it works for both sides, and it gives you Practiced Spellcaster for free, which is like a whole extra feat--two, even, because you'd have to take Practiced Spellcaster twice to apply it to both classes, where krau automatically affects all your spellcasting classes. And you still get to pick a second power sigil--grab naen and you can get a bonus to all Int-based skill checks (which is pretty sweet since it encompasses like a zillion skills, including ones like Spellcraft and Knowledge that are core class skills for you) as well as a +1 bonus to the save DCs to some of your spells.

[badgerman]

thanks a lot for the cool posts.

Still some noob questions:

1. Do I have to take different weapon focus feats for melee and ranged touch attack if I want to do ?

2. When multiclassing with a PrC may I split levels ?
For example:
Lvl1 Archivist
Lvl2 Archivist
Lvl3 Wizard
Lvl4 Wizard
Lvl5
till Mystic Theurge
Lvl9
Lvl10
till Legacy Champion
Lvl15
Lvl16
till Mystic Theurge
Lvl20


3. About that legacy champion:
ok maybe that's a stupid question but if I lvl like seen above and I choose the class ability of the mystic theurge when leveling the legacy champion through his levels 1 to 6 (and taking the Illumian race for early entrance) I should reach archivist 17 and wizard 17 (9th level spells).
But I am totally not sure if thats the way the legacy champion works.

Thanks for answers

[nyjastul69]

Having both played and DM'd a MT, through all 10 levels without early entry cheese, I like them. Yes, losing your top end is a little tough, but the versatility is amazing. I found it very useful, and I suggest, leaving at least one of every spell level slot that you have multiple slots in open. It should increase your versatility further. All it takes is 15 min. to prep a spell.

[badgerman]

The amusing part is, of course, that a well-optimised Factotum or Bard can easily keep up with most Mystic Theurge builds, or even surpass them in certain respects. :smallwink:

it was not my intention to say that a bard or factotum is worse than a mystic theurge. This classes in fact were my favorites so far. I love the flavor and versatility both classes have. And if i want to play more flavor-based with my friends they would be definitely my first choice.

But now I simply want to put another token to the battle grid :)

[Troacctid]

Weapon Focus (ranged spells) and Weapon Focus (touch spells) are considered separate feats, so yeah, you'd have to take them separately. I don't see why you'd want to though, they're pretty weak as feats go. Certainly worse than Spell Focus, and just about strictly worse than Knowledge Devotion if you don't have another source of insight bonuses.

[badgerman]

...I don't see why you'd want to though, they're pretty weak as feats go. ...

Actually I don't want to, but I wanted the answer to the question. So thank you :smalltongue:

[Afgncaap5]

At least your'e right: its for the fun of it and just a game. So let's play and see what happens.

But it's sort of new situation in our group. We are moving from roleplaying to simply dungeoncrawling and tabletop. Most of our guys are located around the world and we don't manage to play long sessions anymore due to the lack of time. So we meet online once per week for about 4 hours to play and stay in contact.
So if it was about roleplay I would say 'hell ya, gimme my factotum, bard, ... and lets PLAY.' But now its about tabletop so i want to WIN :smallbiggrin:

Ah! I getcha now. In that case, the best advice I can give you is to definitely listen to everyone on this board who isn't me. I've never been good at optimizing. :smalltongue:

[ZamielVanWeber]

Strongheart halfling
Race-Education
HD1-Heighten Spell
HD3-Versatile Spellcaster
HD6 or 9-Least legacy

Sorc-1
Favored Soul-2
Mystic Theurge-10
Legacy Champion-7

Very Basic, but weak. Early entry and SAD but looses 9ths.

How is this SAD? Favored Soul casts off of Wisdom and does save DCS off of Charisma. That there is two stats.

[Yuki Akuma]

When leveling up as a PrC you can totally split levels between two different PrCs (unless your DM says no, some do). PrCs don't even count toward multiclassing penalties (not that anyone plays with those).

[zugschef]

Honestly you'd be better served just going straight Archivist. They can learn practically every spell in the game anyway thanks to Cleric domains, Shugenja and Druids. (Or literally every spell, with Alternate Source Spell shenanigans. Or that one PrC I forget the name of.)
Actually the archivist can't do anything a wizard can't already do. Wizards can copy any scroll they can decipher into their spellbook. The same part of the rules which allows them to do that is referenced by the archivist class. Thus, if a wizard couldn't do it, an archivist couldn't either. (And btw, if I'm playing a wizard, I don't care about cleric spells. If I did, I'd play a cleric in the first place and benefit from better saves, hp, armor and better spellcasting (more spells per day and every spell in existence available).)

[Vizzerdrix]

How is this SAD? Favored Soul casts off of Wisdom and does save DCS off of Charisma. That there is two stats.

Ah. Forgive me. It has been a while since I looked at the FS and miss remembered. In that case:

Sorc-1
Druid-2
Mystic Theurge-7
Arcane Heirophant-10

With the same three starting feats.

[SinsI]

Look into Rainbow Servant PRC from Complete Divine if you want to reach 9th level spells of both Cleric and Wizard with no delays (since it is a full caster progression class as said in the text, despite the error in the table). The drawbacks are that you don't get the increased spell slots and you get Cleric spell access as Rainbow Servant's capstone, so until then you only have access to domain spells (Good domain at 1st, Air domain at 4th and Law domain at 7th).

[Telonius]

The other Mystic Theurge trick I know of involves some Dragonwrought Kobold shenanigans. It's possible to cast as a Sorcerer20/Druid20. Basically, go Sorcerer/Druid/Mystic Theurge/Arcane Heirophant. With Dragonwrought and the Draconic Rites of Passage, you essentially get back the lost Sorcerer levels you spent when you took Druid to qualify.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Use Illumian from Races of Destiny, with the Krau sigil. Go Archivist 2/ Wizard 1/ Mystic Theurge with the feat Improved Sigil: Krau, and you don't need Practiced Spellcaster.

Improved Sigil: Krau makes two of your spells count as one level higher without taking a higher level slot, so you apply it to one 1st level Archivist spell and to one 1st level Wizard spell, and you can cast 2nd level spells from 1st level spell slots with each class.

The Krau sigil is like a +2 version of Practiced Spellcaster for every class you have, and with a 2/1/10 level build you won't need more than +2 for either class.

[True believer]

i think that weapon focus is not necessary since you attack the touch armor of the opponent.

In order to go OP with this prestige class you have to make a choice in which casting class you want to focus. The divine or arcane ???? If you want to keep it balance you will loose something that's for sure but since either way u will go u will have access to 9 lvl spells this means that you are already one of the most power-full people in your party.

I would preferred to focus on the arcane magic focused on Conjuration. Be a domain wizard and the you can cover up your brohibited shools by the divine magic. If you ban necromancy and illlusion your cleric spell list will cover your loses


If you want to focus on both castings then take a look in geomancer prestige class

[Story]

if I'm playing a wizard, I don't care about cleric spells. If I did, I'd play a cleric in the first place and benefit from better saves, hp, armor and better spellcasting (more spells per day and every spell in existence available).

But Clerics don't get most Wizard spells. Getting access to both is very attractive.

Clerics get their entire spelllist known but the drawback is that the spelllist isn't anywhere near as good as the Wizard list. Same with Druids.

[bekeleven]

Look into Rainbow Servant PRC from Complete Divine if you want to reach 9th level spells of both Cleric and Wizard with no delays (since it is a full caster progression class as said in the text, despite the error in the table).
You can't possibly claim that this was RAI.

Just to begin: Other languages agree with table.

[SinsI]

You can't possibly claim that this was RAI.

Just to begin: Other languages agree with table.
No, it is RAI and EXACTLY because Mystic Theurge exists.
Why would anyone lose 4 caster levels on Rainbow Servant when he can take a loss of just 3 by taking levels in Archivist or Cleric and getting twice more spell slots AND all the appropriate level casting immediately instead of waiting for the capstone?

[bekeleven]

No, it is RAI and EXACTLY because Mystic Theurge exists.
Why would anyone lose 4 caster levels on Rainbow Servant when he can take a loss of just 3 by taking levels in Archivist or Cleric and getting twice more spell slots AND all the appropriate level casting immediately instead of waiting for the capstone?

Except a Wizard 5/Rainbow Servant 10 can cast 6s in both, while a Wizard 5/Cleric 3/MT 7 can cast 6s in wizard and 5s in cleric.

And lest I forget: 3 domains, 2 spells at will, and wings.

Oh, and also: Wizards were of the opinion that mystic theurge was OP.

[zugschef]

If rainbow servant is allowed as the text says, you use warmage as a lead in. Then you can cast every cleric spell spontaneously.

As for cleric spells being worse than wizard spells. Yes, that's exactly what I was trying to aim at. A lot of people lose their **** when told that according to the phb a wizard can copy any scroll (i.e. arcane and/or divine) into his/her spellbook. Adding cleric spells to a wizard's repertoire doesn't make wizards any more overpowered than they already are. When casting a cleric spell, all a wizard accomplishes is being the sucker for doing it in worse armor with worse saves and less hp. But yeah, that's off topic now...

[Chronos]

Yes, wizards can copy all sorts of things into their spellbooks, including cleric spells, the lyrics of Taylor Swift's latest hit, and their grocery list. So? Why would you ever bother? Spellbooks are expensive enough that you'd probably be better served saving those pages for things you can cast.

[SinsI]

Except a Wizard 5/Rainbow Servant 10 can cast 6s in both, while a Wizard 5/Cleric 3/MT 7 can cast 6s in wizard and 5s in cleric.

And lest I forget: 3 domains, 2 spells at will, and wings.

Oh, and also: Wizards were of the opinion that mystic theurge was OP.

And why, exactly, are you comparing it to Wizard 5/Cleric 3/MT 7 and not Wizard 3/Cleric 3/ MT 9?
Or, better yet, Wizard 5/ Ur-Priest 2/ MT 8 - which casts 6s in Wizard and 9s in Cleric.

If Wizards thought that Mystic Theurge was OP they wouldn't have published Arcane Hierophant or Ur-Priest (which is from exactly the same book Rainbow Servant is).

[Urpriest]

You can't possibly claim that this was RAI.

Just to begin: Other languages agree with table.

Except for when they instead agree with the text and correct the table, like the Portugese version.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Rainbow Servant is the most blatant way to get Cleric spells onto an arcanist, but you don't need it. There are a huge number of ways to make a "Wizard with Divine options" or "Cleric with Arcane options", and that's all a Mystic Theurge is.

[zugschef]

Yes, wizards can copy all sorts of things into their spellbooks, including cleric spells, the lyrics of Taylor Swift's latest hit, and their grocery list. So? Why would you ever bother? Spellbooks are expensive enough that you'd probably be better served saving those pages for things you can cast.
They can cast any spell they've deciphered and copied into their spellbook. And secret page makes spellbooks not cost anything.

[thethird]

I personally like:

Bamboo Spirit Folk Archivist 2 / Wizard (trading familar for animal companion through UA ACF) / Mystic Theurge 7 / Arcane Hierophant 10

[Chronos]

Quoth zugschef:

They can cast any spell they've deciphered and copied into their spellbook.
Nope. From the class description: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#wizardSpells)

A wizard casts arcane spells which are drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.
A spell being in your spellbook is a necessary condition to being able to cast it, but it is not sufficient. In order to cast it, it must be drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

[dextercorvia]

I personally like:

Bamboo Spirit Folk Archivist 2 / Wizard (trading familar for animal companion through UA ACF) / Mystic Theurge 7 / Arcane Hierophant 10

I'd like that, too, if it were legal. It requires some serious shenanigans to claim that you can speak Druid, and you get Trackless Step as a racial ability instead of a class ability. Personally, if we are asking for houserules, I think the simplest is to ask for Mystic Theurge to be a N level dual casting class, where N is the number of levels you need to hit 20 after your chosen entry point.

[SinsI]

I'd like that, too, if it were legal. It requires some serious shenanigans to claim that you can speak Druid

You are mixing it with Fochlucan Lyrist, AH doesn't need you to speak Druid.

[dextercorvia]

You are mixing it with Fochlucan Lyrist, AH doesn't need you to speak Druid.

So, I am. The Trackless Step thing still applies.

[zugschef]

Nope. From the class description: (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#wizardSpells)

A spell being in your spellbook is a necessary condition to being able to cast it, but it is not sufficient. In order to cast it, it must be drawn from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.
that's not what this sentence says. it means that wizards draw their per level spells from the wizard list. It doesn't say anything about spells which have been copied into the spellbook. Unless you want to claim that wizards cannot cast spells they've copied into their spellbook but only spells which they learned at level up, your argument is wrong.

[Twurps]

that's not what this sentence says. it means that wizards draw their per level spells from the wizard list. It doesn't say anything about spells which have been copied into the spellbook. Unless you want to claim that wizards cannot cast spells they've copied into their spellbook but only spells which they learned at level up, your argument is wrong.

That's actually exactly what the sentence says. And it is just about the only sentence in the Wizard entry detailing which spells it can cast. The text then continues to explain 'knowing' spells, and preparing spells, but on the casting, that's about it. (As far as I could find anyway, I'm open to suggestions to the contrary)

So RAW, its arcane spells only in my book. RAI is open for discussion as always, though on that front also an argument can be made it was supposed to be wizards learning each other's spells and they just forgot to detail this when they added scrolls as a source to copy.

[Chronos]

And it's not "arcane spells only" that's the limitation, since plenty of spells can be arcane without being on the wizard list (such as Cure Light Wounds, which can be cast by a bard). A spell is arcane by virtue of being cast by an arcane class such as wizard. If a wizard does somehow gain the ability to cast a spell that's normally divine, such as through the Wyrm Wizard prestige class, that spell becomes arcane for that wizard.

[Vizzerdrix]

So, I am. The Trackless Step thing still applies.

If the DM wants to be this RAW, feel free to used the bucket of water trick in response.

[dextercorvia]

If the DM wants to be this RAW, feel free to used the bucket of water trick in response.

That doesn't seem very mature, "Oh noes, the mean old DM is enforcing PrC prereqs. Must respond by using a dysfunction to cause a disruption during the game."

[Vizzerdrix]

That doesn't seem very mature, "Oh noes, the mean old DM is enforcing PrC prereqs. Must respond by using a dysfunction to cause a disruption during the game."

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

[dextercorvia]

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander.

Drown healing breaks the game. A DM enforcing that class ability means class ability is no different than a DM enforcing that ability to cast arcane spells means arcane spells, not spell-likes, and not divine spells. While some DMs might waive such things to help you build a cool concept, one that doesn't waive prereqs is not "BADWRoNG" or deserving of being trolled.