Pathfinder Scrollmaster archetype... Is it good or just bad?

[Ken Murikumo]

I have a player that decided to make a scrollmaster wizard using spell words (Ultimate magic). He's prone to OP builds at times and i did read though the class features. Though they sound cool and have awesome fluff, it seems overly taxing for what it gives you. Wasting a 6th level scroll for a +2 flaming short sword with 6 whacks before it destroys the sword (and scroll). Surely it would just be more cost effective to buy a damn sword and get it enchanted.

Anything i'm missing? Is there some hidden feat or clause that makes this an improvement over what the wizard normally has? Is there anyway this could be broken?

[Der_DWSage]

Well...it gives some pretty nice AC boosts. That's about it, until he hits tenth level. The highest bonus he can get on the sword or shield is +5, and that's with a 9th level scroll. There's ways to give them a lot of extra HP as well as hardness, but the main use of them is to have a +10 on AC. (6 from a +5 shield, 4 from a +4 Defending Shortsword.) Shortsword doesn't work well with many feats, and they explicitly can't dual-wield.

Really, the gravy is at 10th level, when you can use your own casting modifier with the scrolls in question.

[Crazysaneman]

Don't forget that a 6th level scroll can be used for 5 melee attacks and still be cast. Also, remember that you only need the spell to be on the wizard spell list to be used. You don't actually have to have access to it. Take 5 levels of wizard and fill out your levels with magus. As long as the spell is on both the wizard and magus list and has a range of touch, you can cast that spell off the scroll while attacking with it. Gotta love ambiguous wording.

whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack
Nowhere does it say it has to be a spell prepared, just that it has to be on the list.

So what you end up with is a full attack with the scroll and an attack with a spell in your off hand one round with spell combat, then attack while setting off the scroll round two as a standard with spell strike, then as a move retrieve another scroll from your handy haversack, and as a free action turn it into a scroll blade.

Unless I'm terribly off-base, but it works as read to me :smallcool:

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Magus can only use spells granted by his Magus levels with the Spell Combat and Spellstrike class features. (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9rdm)

[grarrrg]

Anything i'm missing? Is there some hidden feat or clause that makes this an improvement over what the wizard normally has? Is there anyway this could be broken?

The Scroll-Sword and Scroll-Shield are mostly just cheap tricks that aren't generally worth the trade off (the Shield trick can be handy on occasion though).

The REAL benefit is the 10th level bonus:
"At 10th level, the scrollmaster can cast a Wizard spell from a scroll and use his own Intelligence score and relevant feats to set the DC for the spell, and can use his own caster level if it is higher than that of the scroll (similar to a caster using a staff )."

Buy cheap scrolls made at the lowest possible caster level, and get the benefits of your higher caster level.


Take 5 levels of wizard and fill out your levels with magus. As long as the spell is on both the wizard and magus list and has a range of touch, you can cast that spell off the scroll while attacking with it. Gotta love ambiguous wording.

whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack
Nowhere does it say it has to be a spell prepared, just that it has to be on the list.

Clarified in a FAQ (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9rdm)
"The spell you cast when using spell combat has to be a magus spell you know, and it must be a magus spell prepared with one of your magus spell slots."

EDIT: NINJAS!

[Crazysaneman]

Ya know, I looked for a FAQ about it and didn't find one XD and d20pfsrd is usually pretty good about keeping everything FAQ'd

[Psyren]

It works somewhat well with Arcane Trickster - letting you dual-wield +5 short swords (with reach!) at a fraction of the cost, and letting you save your spell slots for buffs and utility. It also gives you a nice option vs. foes with SR that might otherwise resist your SA blasting. Use the Unchained Rogue and you can get dex to damage with both of your short swords, making you DAD.

[grarrrg]

It works somewhat well with Arcane Trickster - letting you dual-wield +5 short swords (with reach!) at a fraction of the cost, and letting you save your spell slots for buffs and utility

_A_ Short Sword with Reach
"A scrollmaster cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time."

And as for why people keep saying "+5" weapon...I don't get it.
It's "1/2 spell level as bonus", rounding down as always, tops off at only a +4 bonus. Which would mean a +3 Reach Short Sword.
Or is there something I'm missing?

Still, I suppose a Light Weapon with Reach (without resorting to a Whip) might have potential. On exactly what build I'm not sure.

[Spore]

Magus can only use spells granted by his Magus levels with the Spell Combat and Spellstrike class features. (http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fz#v5748eaic9rdm)

Magus Arcana: As he gains levels, a magus learns arcane secrets tailored to his specific way of blending martial puissance and magical skill. Starting at 3rd level, a magus gains one magus arcana. He gains an additional magus arcana for every three levels of magus attained after 3rd level. Unless specifically noted in a magus arcana's description, a magus cannot select a particular magus arcana more than once. Magus arcana that affect spells can only be used to modify spells from the magus spell list unless otherwise noted.

Broad Study (Ex): The magus selects another one of his spellcasting classes. The magus can use his spellstrike and spell combat abilities while casting or using spells from the spell list of that class. This does not allow him to cast arcane spells from that class's spell list without suffering the normal chances of arcane spell failure, unless the spell lacks somatic components. The magus must be at least 6th level and must possess levels in at least one other spellcasting class before selecting this arcana.

[grarrrg]

Magus Arcana:..

Broad Study (Ex):...

The FAQ already states that Broad Study can expand the options.
"For example, the broad study magus arcana explicitly states the magus can use spell combat to cast spells from the selected non-magus spellcasting class."

Also, Broad Study, having a requirement of "Magus 6" is nigh-useless outside of Gestalt.

[Kurald Galain]

Wasting a 6th level scroll for a +2 flaming short sword with 6 whacks before it destroys the sword (and scroll). Surely it would just be more cost effective to buy a damn sword and get it enchanted.

Yeah, the fact that even the best scroll is only good for nine hits makes this archetype pretty worthless, I'd say.

[grarrrg]

Yeah, the fact that even the best scroll is only good for nine hits makes this archetype pretty worthless, I'd say.

Yes, the Sword ability is largely garbage, the Shield ability has some 'emergency' merit.
The real, functional, actual draw of this archetype (outside of "LOLZ") is the level 10 ability.

[Kurald Galain]

The real, functional, actual draw of this archetype (outside of "LOLZ") is the level 10 ability.

What would you use this for, low-level attack spells that are only situationally useful? Meh, a tenth-level wizard already has enough spells per day that he can prepare a bunch of those to use at need (or use his arcane bond item for that).

[watchwood]

What would you use this for, low-level attack spells that are only situationally useful? Meh, a tenth-level wizard already has enough spells per day that he can prepare a bunch of those to use at need (or use his arcane bond item for that).

If your DM's not an idiot, then you won't always be able to do 2 encounters per day and then go away to rest the night. Time-limited quests can and should happen, and stuff can come up mid-day that you didn't expect when you prepared your spells that morning.

It also helps a LOT with your endurance. If you've got a long adventuring day with a lot of stuff going on, this will really help keep you relevant in the party long after the other casters are used up their spell slots (This is also wat makes the witch so good)

Finally, it helps boost the situational utility spells that you don't need often but can be helpful to have scale by level. (Dispel Magic comes to mind)

[Psyren]

"A scrollmaster cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time."

Missed that line - however, you can still use a regular weapon in your main-hand and a scrollblade in your offhand, and only have to blow significant WBL on enhancing one. That's still a leg-up over most TWF builds.



And as for why people keep saying "+5" weapon...I don't get it.
It's "1/2 spell level as bonus", rounding down as always, tops off at only a +4 bonus. Which would mean a +3 Reach Short Sword.
Or is there something I'm missing?

GMW :smalltongue: but yeah, it would be +3 reach without that.


What would you use this for, low-level attack spells that are only situationally useful? Meh, a tenth-level wizard already has enough spells per day that he can prepare a bunch of those to use at need (or use his arcane bond item for that).

No, you'd use it for situational utility spells that are CL-dependent. For example, Invisibility Sphere to get the gang past a series of checkpoints - doesn't come up often enough to warrant preparing it every day (or in more than one slot), but when it does, you likely need it more than once (multiple trips to get everyone through) or lasting longer than 5 minutes at a time.

[grarrrg]

What would you use this for, low-level attack spells that are only situationally useful? Meh, a tenth-level wizard already has enough spells per day that he can prepare a bunch of those to use at need (or use his arcane bond item for that).

There's also random loot. Some spells are fairly worthless when you first get them, and don't get 'good/useful' until later.
"hoo. ray. a scroll of Summon Monster 1 with a caster level of 1..."
Virtually worthless on it's own, but with a caster level of 10+ the duration is long enough to find uses for it. "*summon* You! Go check that hallway for traps! You! Wait a turn and then check farther down".


GMW :smalltongue: but yeah, it would be +3 reach without that.
I'm not entirely sure that blowing a GMW on a 9-hit-max ScrollSword is the best use of my time....
I still maintain the Scroll-Shield can be handy though.

[Zeke The Legend]

I realize this post is old, but just wanted to remind every one that for each +1 enhancement bonus a weapon has, you increase its hardness by 1 and it's HP by 10. So 2nd level spells and higher don't take damage from using them to attack, making all of these suggestions a LOT more viable.

[Peelee]

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