NPC deception DC idea

[Ralanr]

So in two weeks I'll be running my first one shot in 5e. I got most of the basics down (more or less. They're in a sewer killing rats. The end boss is a wererat warlock with a fey pact...yes I used class levels, I wanted to make it kinda difficult. It's also on necrotic vulnerable hallow ground)

Ok I was getting lost there. The point is that I was thinking about a way to set up DC's to insight an NPC if he or she lies. Roll a d20, add any bonuses and that's the DC. If I roll a nat 20 I reroll.

It's a level 3 campaign and I have no idea what everyone will play. Do that's kinda a crapshoot. But is the idea of rolling DC's broken or too powerful?

[Draken]

So in two weeks I'll be running my first one shot in 5e. I got most of the basics down (more or less. They're in a sewer killing rats. The end boss is a wererat warlock with a fey pact...yes I used class levels, I wanted to make it kinda difficult. It's also on necrotic vulnerable hallow ground)

Ok I was getting lost there. The point is that I was thinking about a way to set up DC's to insight an NPC if he or she lies. Roll a d20, add any bonuses and that's the DC. If I roll a nat 20 I reroll.

It's a level 3 campaign and I have no idea what everyone will play. Do that's kinda a crapshoot. But is the idea of rolling DC's broken or too powerful?

That is not a DC, it is an ability contest.

An DC would be 10 + Cha mod + prof bonus if the npc has deception trained.

[Easy_Lee]

That is not a DC, it is an ability contest.

An DC would be 10 + Cha mod + prof bonus if the npc has deception trained.

Right. One thing I would add is that you should figure out your player's insight scores and roll for them in secret. Otherwise they may figure out they're being lied to, and it will be hard not to meta-game that.

[Slipperychicken]

It's a level 3 campaign and I have no idea what everyone will play. Do that's kinda a crapshoot. But is the idea of rolling DC's broken or too powerful?

Passive checks are a thing; they're even explicitly recommended for stealth vs perception rolls, which is easily translated to insight vs. deception. Say the NPC's "passive deception" score is 10+Cha+Prof, and have PCs roll against that. You can do the reverse; take your PCs' "passive insight" (10+wis+prof) and have the NPC roll deception against it.

[Tenmujiin]

take your PCs' "passive insight" (10+wis+prof) and have the NPC roll deception against it.

This is probably the best way to do it since otherwise the players will probably metagame (even unintentionally, its hard to not use knowledge once you have it).

[calebrus]

You can do the reverse; take your PCs' "passive insight" (10+wis+prof) and have the NPC roll deception against it.

This is how I usually do it. If a player states that they want to check for it, they get to roll, otherwise it's against their passive score.

I also roll a bunch of d20s prior to the session and make a note of the rolls. Any time I want to make a check for something (deception, insight, perception, whatever) I take the first as-of-yet unused d20 roll and that's what I got. That way I can make secret rolls without the players even knowing that I rolled a die (which of course almost immediately prompts them to call out a certain roll they want to make, this prevents that metagame).

In this case, I would look and see what the first unused d20 was, and that was the die for my deception check, which is opposed by passive scores (unless a player states that they're trying to notice a lie, in which case that player, and only that player, gets to roll).
We do lots and lots and LOTS of checks this way.
Everything has a passive score, and everything is against that passive score unless a stated action by a player prompts a check.
The DM doesn't call for "roll a <whatever> check" pretty much ever*.
If the player rolls a die, it's because of an action that they stated they were attempting. If it wasn't stated, it's passive*.

* exceptions exist for things like being on watch, basically any time it is logically assumed that you are actively doing whatever that thing is. That's pretty much the only time a check is called for without player prompting.

[Ralanr]

Passive checks are a thing; they're even explicitly recommended for stealth vs perception rolls, which is easily translated to insight vs. deception. Say the NPC's "passive deception" score is 10+Cha+Prof, and have PCs roll against that. You can do the reverse; take your PCs' "passive insight" (10+wis+prof) and have the NPC roll deception against it.


This is how I usually do it. If a player states that they want to check for it, they get to roll, otherwise it's against their passive score.

I also roll a bunch of d20s prior to the session and make a note of the rolls. Any time I want to make a check for something (deception, insight, perception, whatever) I take the first as-of-yet unused d20 roll and that's what I got. That way I can make secret rolls without the players even knowing that I rolled a die (which of course almost immediately prompts them to call out a certain roll they want to make, this prevents that metagame).

In this case, I would look and see what the first unused d20 was, and that was the die for my deception check, which is opposed by passive scores (unless a player states that they're trying to notice a lie, in which case that player, and only that player, gets to roll).
We do lots and lots and LOTS of checks this way.
Everything has a passive score, and everything is against that passive score unless a stated action by a player prompts a check.
The DM doesn't call for "roll a <whatever> check" pretty much ever*.
If the player rolls a die, it's because of an action that they stated they were attempting. If it wasn't stated, it's passive*.

* exceptions exist for things like being on watch, basically any time it is logically assumed that you are actively doing whatever that thing is. That's pretty much the only time a check is called for without player prompting.

These are good to know. Thanks.