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bendking
2015-05-01, 04:32 AM
The Daring Sage -
Swordsage 1/Swashbuckler 2/Sneak Attack Fighter 3/ Feat Rogue 2/ Swasbuckler 1/Swordsage 1

Feats: Two Weapon FIghting, Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse, Craven, Daring Outlaw, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Insightful Strike, BONUS FEAT, EMPTY FEAT

Level 1 - Swordsage (1) - get Shadow Blade, get TWo Weapon Fighting, use Island of Blades
Level 2 - Swashbuckler (1) - Weapon Finesse
Level 3 - SA Fighter (1)- SA 1d6, get Craven // Damage - 1d6 + 1d4 + Dex + (2*1d6) 2d6 + 3
Level 4 - Swashbuckler (2) - Grace
Level 5 - SA Fighter (2) - None
Level 6 - SA Fighter (3) - SA 2d6, get Daring Outlaw, DO - 3d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 1d4 + Dex + (3*3d6) 9d6 +6
Level 7 - Feat Rogue (1) - Improved TWF, DO - 4d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + (4*4d6) 16d6 +7
Level 8 - Swashbuckler (3) - Insightful Strike, DO - 4d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*4d6) 16d6 + 8
Level 9 - Feat Rogue (2) - BONUS FEAT, get EMPTY, DO - 5d6// Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*5d6) 20d6 + 9
Level 10 - Swordsage (2) - AC Bonus (AC to Wis), learn Assassins Stance // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*5d6) 20d6 + 10

Basically, this one took like two-three days to theory-craft after meddling around with the Invisible Blade (Which I came to realize is bad), but I think I got it to a pretty good place overall.
What do you guys think? Can it be optimized further?
I'm thinking about using this one with a Rapier in the main hand and Dagger in off-hand all the way through, but if anyone has better equipment suggestions I'll be glad to recieve them.

Thanks,
Ben.

Seharvepernfan
2015-05-01, 07:37 AM
I'm thinking about using this one with a Rapier in the main hand and Dagger in off-hand all the way through, but if anyone has better equipment suggestions I'll be glad to recieve them.

If you squeeze in a level of monk, you could use sianghams in each hand, then flurry for another attack each round (albeit at an additional -2 penalty).

bendking
2015-05-01, 08:17 AM
If you squeeze in a level of monk, you could use sianghams in each hand, then flurry for another attack each round (albeit at an additional -2 penalty).

Would that actually better than what I puropsed? Cause I read that Sianghams are just bad.
And the penalty for Flurry is a little crippling, isn't it?
Also, I fear that would delay my SA progression quite a bit and pretty much delay my entire build by a level, is it really worth it?

Seharvepernfan
2015-05-01, 08:22 AM
Sianghams are bad, yes. They are both monk weapons and shadow blade weapons, though, meaning they are just about the only weapon you can flurry and get your dex to damage with.

The penalty isn't "crippling" anymore than TWF is. It will delay your progression by one level, yes, but you get an extra attack, which means more sneak attack damage if you hit. It's just a matter of your attack bonus being high enough to make it work. Potions/wands of reduce person would give you +2 to your attack rolls and AC, in addition to a bonus to hide, so consider that.

bendking
2015-05-01, 08:44 AM
Sianghams are bad, yes. They are both monk weapons and shadow blade weapons, though, meaning they are just about the only weapon you can flurry and get your dex to damage with.

The penalty isn't "crippling" anymore than TWF is. It will delay your progression by one level, yes, but you get an extra attack, which means more sneak attack damage if you hit. It's just a matter of your attack bonus being high enough to make it work. Potions/wands of reduce person would give you +2 to your attack rolls and AC, in addition to a bonus to hide, so consider that.

I honestly think I'll stick with the Rapier and Dagger because:
A) They just look so much cooler in my imagination in tandrum.
B) I really want to get to Level 6 as quick as possible, and I don't wanna delay my jump in power.

I might dip Monk at level 8 or 11, depending on how far this character will get.

Seharvepernfan
2015-05-01, 09:09 AM
I honestly think I'll stick with the Rapier and Dagger because:
A) They just look so much cooler in my imagination in tandrum.
B) I really want to get to Level 6 as quick as possible, and I don't wanna delay my jump in power.

I might dip Monk at level 8 or 11, depending on how far this character will get.

Perfectly valid. I was just showing you a new thing you could do.

bendking
2015-05-01, 09:55 AM
Perfectly valid. I was just showing you a new thing you could do.

And I thank you for that :)
Any other tips to optimize this build?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2015-05-01, 09:58 AM
You can't use Arcane Stunt with this, because Grace is one of Daring Outlaw's prerequisites.

For a later blooming build, I would recommend using Feat Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue), use Assassin's Stance to qualify for Daring Outlaw, and Daring Outlaw gives you sneak attack based on your Rogue + Swashbuckler levels. That way your Rogue levels give you bonus feats like Fighter levels, and also gives you sneak attack dice once you have Daring Outlaw.

bendking
2015-05-01, 10:04 AM
You can't use Arcane Stunt with this, because Grace is one of Daring Outlaw's prerequisites.

For a later blooming build, I would recommend using Feat Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue), use Assassin's Stance to qualify for Daring Outlaw, and Daring Outlaw gives you sneak attack based on your Rogue + Swashbuckler levels. That way your Rogue levels give you bonus feats like Fighter levels, and also gives you sneak attack dice once you have Daring Outlaw.

I'm pretty sure the Daring Outlaw would just level up your Feat Rogue to give you more feats, wouldn't it?
Either way, I'm not nearly patient enough to wait that long until the build blooms as it is already pretty weak until level 6.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2015-05-01, 11:23 AM
I'm pretty sure the Daring Outlaw would just level up your Feat Rogue to give you more feats, wouldn't it?
Either way, I'm not nearly patient enough to wait that long until the build blooms as it is already pretty weak until level 6.

Daring Outlaw specifically says sneak attack damage, so that's what it gives you.

It looks to me like you're trying to do too much, and it looks a bit forced. Swordsage gets Wis-based abilities, Swashbuckler is Int-based, and you need Dex and Con as well, so the build is very MAD. If you drop Swashbuckler from the build and just spend a feat on Weapon Finesse, it would be much more streamlined, less MAD, and you would get more levels of Swordsage for more/better maneuvers and stances. I would take a level of Swordsage at 1st, since RAW they get x6 skill points at 1st level instead of the standard x4, and you can get Shadow Blade at 1st level. Consider taking Spellthief instead of Rogue, which allows you to use wands of Wizard spells from the schools that class gets access to, namely Wands of Wraithstrike which can go in a wand chamber of your weapon.

gorfnab
2015-05-01, 12:50 PM
How about this build:
Feat Rogue 1/ Swashbuckler 3/ Sneak Attack Fighter 3/ Swordsage 2/ Feat Rogue 11
This gives you 16 BAB, 6 bonus feats, and 10d6 sneak attack (12d6 with Assassins Stance)

Zaq
2015-05-01, 12:58 PM
I'm not seeing any way to handle the mobility issue. You need to be flanking to use Sneak Attack, but you need to be in position ahead of time to use full attacks for TWF. (Island of Blades makes flanking easier, but you specified that you plan to use Assassin's Stance.) Swordsage offers a couple stopgap mobility options (Sudden Leap is the classic one, and I guess Pouncing Charge once you get 5th level maneuvers and Shadow Blink once you get 7th level ones), but I think you should consider dipping Cleric for Travel Devotion. I know that the build's really tight as it is, but you're not going to get to actually use all your attacks if your enemy isn't right where you want them to be (i.e., within a 5 ft step of you, ideally with an ally ready to flank).

Troacctid
2015-05-01, 01:35 PM
You can't save feats for later. You have to take them at the level you get them.

Seharvepernfan
2015-05-01, 06:15 PM
How about this build:
Feat Rogue 1/ Swashbuckler 3/ Sneak Attack Fighter 3/ Swordsage 2/ Feat Rogue 11
This gives you 16 BAB, 6 bonus feats, and 10d6 sneak attack (12d6 with Assassins Stance)

There's just no way that this isn't cheating.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2015-05-01, 06:52 PM
There's just no way that this isn't cheating.

Or, you know, make an Elf Cloistered Cleric with DMM: Persistent, Otherworldly, and the Spell domain. Use DMM: Persist with Divine Might, Greater Anyspell: Draconic Polymorph: Kelvezu, Metamagic Rod of Reach Spell Divine Agility, Greater Visage of the Deity, Greater Anyspell: Shield, (Pearl of Power) Greater Anyspell: Wraithstrike, Stormrage, Holy Star three times, Magic Circle Against Evil, etc. On top of that use (Extended) Greater Luminous Armor, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment twice, Energy Immunity five times, Superior Resistance, etc.

That will have the following stats with less than 25% of your WBL spent:

Str 39, Dex 43, Con 22, Int base+2, Wis base+4, Cha base+4
30 ft. land speed, fly 60 good
Initiative +40 with Moment of Prescience
AC 70 (+13 armor, +9 shield, +16 natural, +16 Dex, +6 circumstance), Touch 32, Flat-Footed 54, Incorporeal Touch 54
Fort +24, Reflex +28, Will 18+Wis
DR 10/Magic, SR 25
Immune to: acid, cold, fire, electricity, sonic, disease, mind-affecting, divinations, natural and magical wind, projectile and thrown weapon attacks, natural weapons of nongood extraplanar creatures.
BAB +20
+8d6 sneak attack
Poison that's excreted from his fingers and automatically delivered on every weapon attack, injury 1d6 Con initial and secondary, Fort DC 22.

+5 Greatsword, Power Attack, +22/+17/+12/+7 melee touch, 2d6+69 plus poison, 19-20/x2, +8d6 sneak attack if applicable.
or +5 Composite Longbow, +44/+39/+34/+29 ranged, 1d8+22 plus poison, 20/x3, +8d6 sneak attack if applicable.

And Fire Bolt, +39 ranged touch (90 ft. max), 10d6 fire, +8d6 sneak attack if applicable, up to three times per round if each Holy Star is put into this mode.

So assuming you have DMM Persistent Greater Invisibility (Pearl of Power your Greater Anyspell), you can get a surprise round to attack once with your sword or longbow and with all three Holy Stars, then win initiative and full attack with your sword or longbow and all three holy stars, then switch one holy star to AC mode and anther to Spell Turning mode. In that case, your damage dealt before the opponents act will be as follows:
Melee: 108d6 fire (average 378) plus 50d6+345 slashing (average 520) plus poison five times.
Ranged: 108d6 fire (average 378) plus 5d8+40d6+110 piercing (average 272) plus poison five times.

Seharvepernfan
2015-05-02, 05:07 AM
Well, yeah, but you can't wear heavy armor, so it balances out.

I need to check out holy star, apparently.

bendking
2015-05-02, 06:45 AM
You can't save feats for later. You have to take them at the level you get them.

According to WotC you could respec feats, so I don't see a difference between taking a feat then re-allocation it and just taking that feat later.
Actually, re-allocation the feat would be better, honestly, so I'm mostly hampering myself here.

JohnDaBarr
2015-05-02, 07:41 AM
Maxing UMD with this build shouldn't be a problem and then getting a Wand Chamber in your weapons would allow to buff up in combat with stuff like Invisibility (or swift version), Expeditious Retreat (or swift version), Wraithstrike and others...

The three I mentioned will allow you SA opportunities, and a way to get in to the position and ofc a way to negate high armor.

Troacctid
2015-05-02, 08:49 AM
According to WotC you could respec feats, so I don't see a difference between taking a feat then re-allocation it and just taking that feat later.
Actually, re-allocation the feat would be better, honestly, so I'm mostly hampering myself here.

Retraining a feat still restricts you to feats you could have normally qualified for at that level. You can't wait until you meet prerequisites and then retrain your low-level feats into high-level feats.

bendking
2015-05-02, 02:50 PM
Daring Outlaw specifically says sneak attack damage, so that's what it gives you.

It looks to me like you're trying to do too much, and it looks a bit forced. Swordsage gets Wis-based abilities, Swashbuckler is Int-based, and you need Dex and Con as well, so the build is very MAD. If you drop Swashbuckler from the build and just spend a feat on Weapon Finesse, it would be much more streamlined, less MAD, and you would get more levels of Swordsage for more/better maneuvers and stances. I would take a level of Swordsage at 1st, since RAW they get x6 skill points at 1st level instead of the standard x4, and you can get Shadow Blade at 1st level. Consider taking Spellthief instead of Rogue, which allows you to use wands of Wizard spells from the schools that class gets access to, namely Wands of Wraithstrike which can go in a wand chamber of your weapon.

Well, my stats are 18, 16, 15, 14, 11, 10, so:
11 STR
18 DEX
16 CON
15 INT
14 WIS
10 CHA

Not that MAD.
I don't plan on taking Swordsage beyond 2, so I'm not building on wis-based abilities too much.
I might get Swordsage at 1st, but it would really delay my SA damage both in Feats and Rogue SA level.

EDIT:
After thinking about it alot, and trying to make this build possible with the Daring Outlaw thing, I'm not sure it's possible.
How would you go about making a high mobility, high SA combo'd with TWF killer, which is basically what I was going for?
Swashbuckler/Rogue/Swordsage/Feat Rogue/Sneak Attack Fighter/Spell Thief - all come to mind, but I'm just lost on how to make it work by now, so I could really use some help.

This is what I have so far:
The Daring Sage - Proper

Swordsage 1/Swashbuckler 2/Sneak Attack Fighter 3/ Feat Rogue 2/ Swasbuckler 1/Swordsage 1

Feats: Two Weapon FIghting, Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse, Craven, Daring Outlaw, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Insightful Strike, BONUS FEAT, EMPTY FEAT

Level 1 - Swordsage (1) - get Shadow Blade, get TWo Weapon Fighting, use Island of Blades
Level 2 - Swashbuckler (1) - Weapon Finesse
Level 3 - SA Fighter (1)- SA 1d6, get Craven // Damage - 1d6 + 1d4 + Dex + (2*1d6) 2d6 + 3
Level 4 - Swashbuckler (2) - Grace
Level 5 - SA Fighter (2) - None
Level 6 - SA Fighter (3) - SA 2d6, get Daring Outlaw, DO - 3d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 1d4 + Dex + (3*3d6) 9d6 +6
Level 7 - Feat Rogue (1) - Improved TWF, DO - 4d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + (4*4d6) 16d6 +7
Level 8 - Swashbuckler (3) - Insightful Strike, DO - 4d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*4d6) 16d6 + 8
Level 9 - Feat Rogue (2) - BONUS FEAT, get EMPTY, DO - 5d6// Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*5d6) 20d6 + 9
Level 10 - Swordsage (2) - AC Bonus (AC to Wis), learn Assassins Stance // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*5d6) 20d6 + 10

Not sure how well it would work, but it's the accumulation of all the trial and error so far.


Retraining a feat still restricts you to feats you could have normally qualified for at that level. You can't wait until you meet prerequisites and then retrain your low-level feats into high-level feats.

Well, that's depressing.

EDIT:
Well, here we go.
This is what I have.

The Daring Sage - Proper

Swordsage 1/Swashbuckler 2/Sneak Attack Fighter 3/ Feat Rogue 2/ Swasbuckler 1/Swordsage 1

Feats: Two Weapon FIghting, Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse, Craven, Daring Outlaw, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Insightful Strike, BONUS FEAT, EMPTY FEAT

Level 1 - Swordsage (1) - get Shadow Blade, get TWo Weapon Fighting, use Island of Blades
Level 2 - Swashbuckler (1) - Weapon Finesse
Level 3 - SA Fighter (1)- SA 1d6, get Craven // Damage - 1d6 + 1d4 + Dex + (2*1d6) 2d6 + 3
Level 4 - Swashbuckler (2) - Grace
Level 5 - SA Fighter (2) - None
Level 6 - SA Fighter (3) - SA 2d6, get Daring Outlaw, DO - 3d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 1d4 + Dex + (3*3d6) 9d6 +6
Level 7 - Feat Rogue (1) - Improved TWF, DO - 4d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + (4*4d6) 16d6 +7
Level 8 - Swashbuckler (3) - Insightful Strike, DO - 4d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*4d6) 16d6 + 8
Level 9 - Feat Rogue (2) - BONUS FEAT, get EMPTY, DO - 5d6// Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*5d6) 20d6 + 9
Level 10 - Swordsage (2) - AC Bonus (AC to Wis), learn Assassins Stance // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*5d6) 20d6 + 10

nedz
2015-05-02, 06:53 PM
I'm not sure what Swordsage is getting you which you couldn't acquire with a couple of feats: Martial Study/Martial Stance; also this is Wis dependant - so MAD.

I can see why you might want 1 level of Monk - using Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine for Int to AC - you can get the feat back for some purposes (several ACFs to choose from). This is still a marginal build though.

Warrnan
2015-05-02, 09:23 PM
+1 on the wand chamber. My Swashbuckler2/rogue3/fighter2 has wand chambers in both weapons. Wraithstrike and Swift invisibility. With a wraithstrike wand, the Craven feat and your sneak attack you will carve the bad guys up really nicely. Grab a custom item to buff your use magic device skill and you'll usually make the check to activate. It's relatively cheap. Skill bonus squared X 100gold.

Also. Grabbing feats with Fighter really helps. I also took the alternative class feature called Hit and Run Tactics. It gives +2 for initiative and dex to damage vs flatfooted targets while sacrificing med and hvy armor proficiency, perfect for a weapon finesse dex character.

if you are feat starved, you can always buy Shadowhand Gloves (whatever they are named) for 3k gold each. Mine give me Island of blades for flanking from any direction, and cloak of deception for a swift action greater invisibility once per encounter. My dm rules you can get a stance and a maneuver and that you must meet the minimum IL for using the maneuver.

also +1 on the Shadow blade feat. my damage went thru the roof when i started adding dex to damage.

bendking
2015-05-03, 02:51 AM
I'm not sure what Swordsage is getting you which you couldn't acquire with a couple of feats: Martial Study/Martial Stance; also this is Wis dependant - so MAD.

I can see why you might want 1 level of Monk - using Kung Fu Genius or Carmendine for Int to AC - you can get the feat back for some purposes (several ACFs to choose from). This is still a marginal build though.

The Swordsage is getting my access to manuevers, which will come in very useful in my opinion.
Also, this build is a bit Feat starved, so the dip in Swordsage quite neccesary in making it work.


+1 on the wand chamber. My Swashbuckler2/rogue3/fighter2 has wand chambers in both weapons. Wraithstrike and Swift invisibility. With a wraithstrike wand, the Craven feat and your sneak attack you will carve the bad guys up really nicely. Grab a custom item to buff your use magic device skill and you'll usually make the check to activate. It's relatively cheap. Skill bonus squared X 100gold.

Also. Grabbing feats with Fighter really helps. I also took the alternative class feature called Hit and Run Tactics. It gives +2 for initiative and dex to damage vs flatfooted targets while sacrificing med and hvy armor proficiency, perfect for a weapon finesse dex character.

if you are feat starved, you can always buy Shadowhand Gloves (whatever they are named) for 3k gold each. Mine give me Island of blades for flanking from any direction, and cloak of deception for a swift action greater invisibility once per encounter. My dm rules you can get a stance and a maneuver and that you must meet the minimum IL for using the maneuver.

also +1 on the Shadow blade feat. my damage went thru the roof when i started adding dex to damage.

The Wand Chamber sounds really good, never heard of it before this post, so thanks.
I'm grabbing feats with the Feat Rogue to stack with Daring Outlaw, kind cheeky, but it works.
I'm using Swordsage as a way to get access to Shadow Blade, and getting some nice manuvers and perhpas using Assassins Stance later on.
I made this new build, which I think is pretty well optimized, taking in all the advice given here:

The Daring Sage - Proper

Swordsage 1/Swashbuckler 2/Sneak Attack Fighter 3/ Feat Rogue 2/ Swasbuckler 1/Swordsage 1

Feats: Two Weapon FIghting, Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse, Craven, Daring Outlaw, Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Insightful Strike, BONUS FEAT, EMPTY FEAT

Level 1 - Swordsage (1) - get Shadow Blade, get TWo Weapon Fighting, use Island of Blades
Level 2 - Swashbuckler (1) - Weapon Finesse
Level 3 - SA Fighter (1)- SA 1d6, get Craven // Damage - 1d6 + 1d4 + Dex + (2*1d6) 2d6 + 3
Level 4 - Swashbuckler (2) - Grace
Level 5 - SA Fighter (2) - None
Level 6 - SA Fighter (3) - SA 2d6, get Daring Outlaw, DO - 3d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 1d4 + Dex + (3*3d6) 9d6 +6
Level 7 - Feat Rogue (1) - Improved TWF, DO - 4d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + (4*4d6) 16d6 +7
Level 8 - Swashbuckler (3) - Insightful Strike, DO - 4d6 // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*4d6) 16d6 + 8
Level 9 - Feat Rogue (2) - BONUS FEAT, get EMPTY, DO - 5d6// Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*5d6) 20d6 + 9
Level 10 - Swordsage (2) - AC Bonus (AC to Wis), learn Assassins Stance // Damage - 2d6 + 2d4 + Dex + Int + (4*5d6) 20d6 + 10

Zaq
2015-05-03, 01:29 PM
You're still the opposite of a "high mobility" character. You need a full attack to get off all your swings, and that relies on the enemy being within a 5 ft step of your starting square. Since you rely on flanking for Sneak Attack (Swift Invisibility will work some of the time, but not all of the time, and you don't want to rely on a consumable resource every single round you ever attack, nor will you always have a free swift action to devote to it), you're even more reliant on ideal positioning. I still say you need to invest a level in Cleric (for Travel Devotion) or Barbarian (for Pounce).

bendking
2015-05-03, 10:54 PM
You're still the opposite of a "high mobility" character. You need a full attack to get off all your swings, and that relies on the enemy being within a 5 ft step of your starting square. Since you rely on flanking for Sneak Attack (Swift Invisibility will work some of the time, but not all of the time, and you don't want to rely on a consumable resource every single round you ever attack, nor will you always have a free swift action to devote to it), you're even more reliant on ideal positioning. I still say you need to invest a level in Cleric (for Travel Devotion) or Barbarian (for Pounce).

Another dip will really set me back quite alot, is there any other way to get swift action movements so I could full-attacK?
Magic items with daily uses? Manuevers?
Surely I don't HAVE to dip Cleric or Barbaric, right..?

Troacctid
2015-05-03, 11:06 PM
You could take Swordsage levels. Swordsages get swift action movement. (Sudden Leap being the most obvious one.)

bendking
2015-05-04, 03:44 AM
You could take Swordsage levels. Swordsages get swift action movement. (Sudden Leap being the most obvious one.)

I already have a Swordsage level at 1, but what more manuevers give me swift action movement other than Sudden Leap?
Because Sudden Leap is 1/encounter unless I get Adaptive Style, but that is very sub-optimal.

Quizote
2015-05-04, 01:28 PM
If you can fit in a second level of Monk you can trade Evasion for immediate action invisibility with Exemplars of Evil. You could try to convince your DM to let Carmedine Monk work with Swordsage AC or take the Monk dip and go unarmored, armor is going to hold back your AC if max Dex.

Zaq
2015-05-04, 03:06 PM
I already have a Swordsage level at 1, but what more manuevers give me swift action movement other than Sudden Leap?
Because Sudden Leap is 1/encounter unless I get Adaptive Style, but that is very sub-optimal.

Like I said in my first post, there's Pouncing Charge (Tiger Claw) as a level 5 maneuver, and there's Shadow Blink (Shadow Hand) as a level 7 maneuver. There's also Quicksilver Motion (Diamond Mind) as a level 7 maneuver. That's about it.

Swordsages are more mobile than most combatants because strikes are usually standard actions, not because they have a ton of swift action movement options. Granted, the fact that they do have those three or four options does put them above most non-ToB characters, but it's still not a lot to rely on if you plan on full attacking every round.

Overall, the fact that full attacks disallow movement is a huge weakness of the 3.5 combat system as a whole. At least we do have Barbarian (for Pounce) and Cleric (for Travel Devotion) as options—before Complete Champion was a thing, there were vanishingly few ways to reliably get a full attack after a move. It's a real shame that this has to be a consideration at all, but there really isn't a way around it. If you want to be mobile, you either need to not care about full attacks, or you need a way of moving and full attacking (which basically boils down to Pounce or Travel Devotion, at least for the relatively low-investment options).

bendking
2015-05-05, 02:06 AM
I really don't think I can fit any other classes in this build, it's cluttered as it is and I don't want to delay the progression any further.
Right now I just need ways to get flanks off (Island of blades, animal companions of Druid in the party), and items that let me move around the battle with swift/immediate actions.
So far I was thinking of getting:
Chronocharm of the Horizon Walker (x3)
Anklet of Translocation (x2)
Shadow Cloak (x1)
Belt of Battle (x1)

Hopefully flanks and these magic items will suffice, but I still wonder if there are other ways to help me full-attack without taking a level in a class?
Mabye other magical items I didn't think of? Some ways to get Pounce without a Barbarian dip? Just being optimistic.