Call of Cthulhu RPG

[LuckyDee]

Hey all,

Being a fan of Lovecraft's work I ran into the Call of Cthulhu RPG. Does anyone here have any experience with this? Is it worth spending money on? Is there a lot of difference between versions?

Any input is much appreciated.

Cheers,


Dee

[Anonymouswizard]

I own 5e, and in my experience it's a serviceable game, but generally inferior to Unknown Armies. There's no option for non-rolled stats, but that's because the best stats are POW, EDU, INT, and SIZ, with ones like APP being useless. It's not a brilliant system, but it's definitely in my top 10, above D&D.

This possibly wants to be in Older D&D and Other Systems, as a heads up.

[Geddy2112]

I have only played a few games of it, but I absolutely loved it. It is a d100 percentile system, pretty easy to get a grasp on. Characters die, a lot, and part of the randomness/utter powerlessness the characters have fits the Lovecraftian setting.

I find that it is much better as a one shot adventure to do over a night with friends than a long campaign.

[JAL_1138]

There was also a d20 version from WotC that was markedly inferior (IMO) to the Chaosium versions. d20 is not really suited for Lovecraftian horror, frankly, nor to any game where the only real combat options are usually either "run away" or "die horribly."

[some guy]

It's definitely worth spending money on, but I recommend downloadingthe quickstart rules (http://www.chaosium.com/the-call-of-cthulhu-quick-start-pdf/) first and playing the included adventure (which is a very nice one). There's not much difference between editions (I play 6th), 7th has the most differences, I believe.

It's easy to understand (that said, I think the combat rules of 6th are too fiddly) and the sanity system is very nice.


There was also a d20 version from WotC that was markedly inferior (IMO) to the Chaosium versions. d20 is not really suited for Lovecraftian horror, frankly, nor to any game where the only real combat options are usually either "run away" or "die horribly."

While the d20 system is, indeed, not very suitable for horror, the d20 rulebook has some nice sections on gamemastering and such.

There are also some proponents for Trail of Cthulhu. I play Call myself (I know those rules better and I think it's easier to explain), but Kenneth Hite, the designer of Trail, is an excellent writer and if you got money/time, I still would recommend reading Trail.

[BWR]

I'm not overly fond of the Basic Roleplaying system (what classic CoC runs on, including variants like Delta Green and The Laundry Files) but it does its job. The best thing about the game is it has some very nice supplements and adventures. I feel the d20 version of CoC is unfairly maligned. It's not like you play D&D characters in a Lovecraftian setting - just normal folks. PCs will not have much chance to level up before dying or going mad, and it won't help much in any case. It doesn't matter if you get level 20 characters, they aren't going to be any use against things like Cthulhu.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm not overly fond of the Basic Roleplaying system (what classic CoC runs on, including variants like Delta Green and The Laundry Files) but it does its job. The best thing about the game is it has some very nice supplements and adventures. I feel the d20 version of CoC is unfairly maligned. It's not like you play D&D characters in a Lovecraftian setting - just normal folks. PCs will not have much chance to level up before dying or going mad, and it won't help much in any case. It doesn't matter if you get level 20 characters, they aren't going to be any use against things like Cthulhu.

Is it true that the d20 version goes from 'more deadly than d%' at level 1 to 'killable action heroes' at level 20? Because it sounds like it gives you a dial to go from 'normal folks' to 'professionals' to 'Lovecraft lite', whereas classic is stuck at between the first two (but still better than d20 for horror, although not by much).

If you know enough to dtat the horrors yourself, street-level unknown armies is a better put together system, although the setting is more anti-lovecraft.

[LuckyDee]

Hey, thanks for all your responses. The idea of a game perfectly suitable for single session adventures ending with the players being dead, bananas or both really appeals :)

I've ordered a copy of the 6th edition, see how I'll manage mastering/playing true horror games. I could do with some new material anyhow.

[JAL_1138]

I'm not overly fond of the Basic Roleplaying system (what classic CoC runs on, including variants like Delta Green and The Laundry Files) but it does its job. The best thing about the game is it has some very nice supplements and adventures. I feel the d20 version of CoC is unfairly maligned. It's not like you play D&D characters in a Lovecraftian setting - just normal folks. PCs will not have much chance to level up before dying or going mad, and it won't help much in any case. It doesn't matter if you get level 20 characters, they aren't going to be any use against things like Cthulhu.

It's not that the power level gets out of hand, it's that d20 is a combat-focused, class-and-level, crunchtastic system regardless of character power level, which is somewhat at odds with a genre where the monsters should not be readily comprehensible, nor fought as anything but a (certainly doomed) last resort, and should be rarely encountered, and where much of the game is geared around research and mystery. BRP is skill based rather than class-and-level and bases advancement on successful rolls rather than "encounters" by default, too. It just works better for the genre and the general design of a typical adventure in it. There's also much more ready-to-use material available for the BRP version, although that's not a system issue in itself.

[BWR]

I agree that BRP is better for CoC than d20 - I'm just saying that CoC d20 isn't as bad as a lot of people seem to think it is.

[Lord Loss]

I used the Crimes People Play rules to run what was basically a Call of Cthulhu campaign for the longest time, converting a bunch of Trail of Cthulhu and old CoC modules to the new system. I don't like the Call of Cthulhu rules because they feel rather clunky to me, and I believe that a dedicated horror game is best served with a very rules-light system, in order to have the game be as fast-paced as possible - nothing kills atmosphere more than spending ten minutes looking up or debating a rule, or spending too long looking through a character sheet in order to determine what skill best suits the situation.

Here (http://www.hauntedattic.org/crimespeopleplay.html) are the crimes people play rules.

Here's (http://www.rpg.net/columns/list-column.phtml?colname=thehorror) a column on running horror games that I've always found to be particularly useful. The first half of the series (or so) is great, the later stuff was significantly less so. I recommend starting from the beginning, as it loosely follows one of the author's own games.

On a more general note, with regard to lethality, I've always found it more horror-inducing not to kill player characters as much as possible. A slew of dead PCs means a lack of attachment to one's own character. It means a few minutes spent rolling up new characters here and there. No biggie. Instead, threaten characters with change - have the characters face horrors, and be affected by it. Perhaps a character fighting evil makes him develop a strange and mutating illness. Perhaps it makes him paranoid, or partially crippled. Maybe it just means he comes to neglect his family, or grow unable to relate to them because of the horrors he's experienced.

[Anonymouswizard]

On a more general note, with regard to lethality, I've always found it more horror-inducing not to kill player characters as much as possible. A slew of dead PCs means a lack of attachment to one's own character. It means a few minutes spent rolling up new characters here and there. No biggie. Instead, threaten characters with change - have the characters face horrors, and be affected by it. Perhaps a character fighting evil makes him develop a strange and mutating illness. Perhaps it makes him paranoid, or partially crippled. Maybe it just means he comes to neglect his family, or grow unable to relate to them because of the horrors he's experienced.

So much this. I've found it better to use a tough monster who can't really deal damage rather than a big strong monster, because the PCs can't beat it, but they can survive it, although maybe not with their mind intact (sanity damage 1d10/1d6 on first meeting and 1/1 every other time). Don't be worried about making it fast though, a fast tough brute that can't hit the broad side of a barn* but can be escaped (for a time) using wits is exactly how I plan to run a werewolf in the next game I use Call of Cthulhu for. The adventure is intended as a taster before they discover hints to the cult that created the werewolf, (via curse), and eventually work their way up to the high priests if they are lucky, but they never encounter any actual 'others' except as a voice on the wind, a strange man offering advice, or something that doesn't quite sit right. If you occasionally throw in something that just isn't right it'll work better than going TENTACLES!!! (as I found out by accident when running Dark Heresy)

*60% bite but the PCs always get a dodge or luck roll to avoid it.

[Comet]

The Call of Cthulhu system only gives you the most basic mechanics possible for standard task resolution. The game asks for a huge amount of effort from the GM to actually make it interesting and gives relatively little advice on how to apply that effort. Visit Yog-Sothoth (http://www.yog-sothoth.com/articles.html) for excellent resources and advice on running all kinds of horrors and mysteries.

[Maglubiyet]

Do they still have Power as a stat? We played 1e way back and it basically used the character creation rules from Chaosium's Runequest.

They needlessly provided stats for all the various monstrosities. It's not like a regular human, armed with the best firepower the 1920's could muster, would even scratch 95% of them. The game was not meant to be a typical dungeon crawl.

Still, we had a lot of fun with it. Many, many investigators met their untimely ends in the ruins of lost civilizations, in the basements of urban cults, and on expeditions to the trackless arctic wastes. Good times!

[Anonymouswizard]

Do they still have Power as a stat? We played 1e way back and it basically used the character creation rules from Chaosium's Runequest.

In 5/6e (whichever I own), yep. IMO the most important stat in the game, just above Education and picking 'spot horrifying creature' as a profession skill, because it gives you your starting SAN, and high SAN means you're more likely to keep SAN.


They needlessly provided stats for all the various monstrosities. It's not like a regular human, armed with the best firepower the 1920's could muster, would even scratch 95% of them. The game was not meant to be a typical dungeon crawl.

Still, we had a lot of fun with it. Many, many investigators met their untimely ends in the ruins of lost civilizations, in the basements of urban cults, and on expeditions to the trackless arctic wastes. Good times!

YEah, there are problems, but it's fun.

[mephnick]

I like it, and I believe 6th edition (what I played) is generally well regarded. But it is very heavy on DM preparation, because you can't just throw down combats when you need a chance to think. You need to have clues that lead to other clues and a comprehensive plot. I found even running the printed adventures much more exhausting than a D&D sandbox. The game relies on atmosphere and a great story-teller DM, but when it runs well, it's fun as hell. Players love seeing if their characters can hang on, or even better, die a horrible death.

[Ashtagon]

Is it true that the d20 version goes from 'more deadly than d%' at level 1 to 'killable action heroes' at level 20? Because it sounds like it gives you a dial to go from 'normal folks' to 'professionals' to 'Lovecraft lite', whereas classic is stuck at between the first two (but still better than d20 for horror, although not by much).

If you know enough to dtat the horrors yourself, street-level unknown armies is a better put together system, although the setting is more anti-lovecraft.

The investigator PC class in d20 CoC is somewhere between a commoner and a warrior in terms of potential. However, For all practicval purposes...


PCs have no access to useful magic items or spells; those they may get given will almost certainly drive them insane.
Most monsters have near-total resistance to modern firearms.
The feats suck.
No prestige classes, or indeed any multiclassing in general.
You play as a human.
There is no "magic mart" in place.
You generally have only natural healing available.
By the time you are high level, you're probably a bump in the night away from being driven permanently insane, due to ongoing sanity loss, which is incredibly hard to heal.


Take the dark young, for example. They have DR 20/+2. Even at level 20, the PCs probably don't have more than one magic sword between them (well, maybe a sword and a mace); that DR will basically shut them all down. They are also immune to fire and explosions, which removes most of the usual mass damage techniques available. That's probably one of the tougher non-unique monsters in the book. The uniques are all still "lol no".

Overall, I'd say a L20 CoC PC is about where a L5 D&D PC is at.

[Anonymouswizard]

The investigator PC class in d20 CoC is somewhere between a commoner and a warrior in terms of potential. However, For all practicval purposes...


PCs have no access to useful magic items or spells; those they may get given will almost certainly drive them insane.
Most monsters have near-total resistance to modern firearms.
The feats suck.
No prestige classes, or indeed any multiclassing in general.
You play as a human.
There is no "magic mart" in place.
You generally have only natural healing available.
By the time you are high level, you're probably a bump in the night away from being driven permanently insane, due to ongoing sanity loss, which is incredibly hard to heal.


Take the dark young, for example. They have DR 20/+2. Even at level 20, the PCs probably don't have more than one magic sword between them (well, maybe a sword and a mace); that DR will basically shut them all down. They are also immune to fire and explosions, which removes most of the usual mass damage techniques available. That's probably one of the tougher non-unique monsters in the book. The uniques are all still "lol no".

Overall, I'd say a L20 CoC PC is about where a L5 D&D PC is at.

Sounds like BRP CoC, but with this entire 'game based around combat' thing getting in the way. I've had enough trouble moving games away from combat, only recently getting to an average of 1 combat a session by trying to push personalities (PC and NPC) and motivations (the best GM I ever played under has a record of about 0.95 combats a session in the games I've played with him, due to running a really interesting world).

[BWR]

And I've run the Laundry Files (similar to Delta Green) which is (or rather, can easily be depending on what sort of games you want) far more combat focused than classic CoC with about 1 combat per two sessions (some adventures were more combat heavy than others). Most time was spent investigating and dealing with the horror/comedy of government run secret occult intelligence services. The biggest weakness of d20 CoC was that you really needed a few more skill points each level to be much use.

[Anonymouswizard]

And I've run the Laundry Files (similar to Delta Green) which is (or rather, can easily be depending on what sort of games you want) far more combat focused than classic CoC with about 1 combat per two sessions (some adventures were more combat heavy than others). Most time was spent investigating and dealing with the horror/comedy of government run secret occult intelligence services. The biggest weakness of d20 CoC was that you really needed a few more skill points each level to be much use.

Fixed that for you (seriously, I feel starved with less than 6+int in D&D).