Most fun playable Races

[Kiassic91]

Me and some friends are making a campaign (who would have guessed) and i would like to know what races ya'll have played and really enjoyed. I dont want to optimize my character. Odds are (not finalized) ill be a cleric of Madness and Creation domain. If you are wondering what deity that is, no clue. We have created a world using our own deities, lands everything. We allow for self made open source, though odd are we wont make anything. I might make a class, but who knows.

Sorry. I rambled. im just super stoked. Were also going to podcast it, and im leaving a soundcloud (lots of random convos intertwined) link at the end with a recording of our creation of the world.
But i want to know which races are interesting. even if i get like dumb stats in int as a cleric i dont mind. Any Suggestions!? Thanks guys!!



https://soundcloud.com/matthew-lando-markham/d-d-at-kyles

Map available if wanted, too.

[Ferronach]

I love playing Warforged myself.
1/2 Fey and feytouched can be neat.
Tieflings are fun.
From MoI Rilcan (I think that is what they were called) are interesting.
I played a young shadow dragon once - lots of fun but the ECl is killer.


If homebrew is a go (And it sounds like it is), some king of construct that gained sentience somehow could be fun to RP.

For kicks you could play some sort of dog/cat and follow the party. They tink you are just a stray and feed you etc. right up until to obliterate a bad guy and heal the party ;) Just tell the players that your character is still in the works and the DM felt bad for you so let you control a stray animal. Pass notes to the DM when you want to do something "clericy"

[defiantdan]

The race chosen doesn't really effect a players level of entertainment. It's all about what you enjoy doing and roleplaying. You could roleplay an elf that thinks he's an orc. A chast Fey. A dumb Wizard. Races and classes are all crunch, the only value it adds to the game is the numbers and prequisites they fill on your character sheet. The challenges and fluff that make the game fun are up to you and your group.

[Kiassic91]

I agree and disagree. I think playing a different race other than human or elf or dwarf can add a lot of flavor. If you do RP closer, you wont play those races the same. I understand that ill have fun with any race, but gnomewise halfling have mind abilities, thri-keen have wings and blade hands RP and char wise WAAAYY different than a human. I just want to know fun ideas and unique races

[Segev]

I really like the concept behind the Dvati, but they are only questionably playable, sadly.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll agree that Warforged from MM3 and various Eberron books are very fun to (role-)play, and given your domain choices it would be a very fitting and fun choice. I would get Adamantine Body at 1st level, plan to pick up Improved Fortification, and adapt Cleric to rebuke and command constructs instead of undead, and replace your Cure Wounds spells with the Repair Damage line of spells in Spell Compendium, and spontaneously convert prepared spells to those.

[Kiassic91]

I'll agree that Warforged from MM3 and various Eberron books are very fun to (role-)play, and given your domain choices it would be a very fitting and fun choice. I would get Adamantine Body at 1st level, plan to pick up Improved Fortification, and adapt Cleric to rebuke and command constructs instead of undead, and replace your Cure Wounds spells with the Repair Damage line of spells in Spell Compendium, and spontaneously convert prepared spells to those.

That could be really awesome actually. In the world there was an area of (more or less) ancient wizards who were wiped out defeating a draco-lich. But lots of relics and things (like possibly me!??) remain. Which would start with a cool story and background. Plus ive never played a warforged!

[Red Fel]

I have a few.

Tibbit is a big one. Be a member of the itty bitty kitty committee! Be a Tibbit Rogue, grab a mouthpick knife, and shiv the crap out of a guy from within his own space. Be a Tibbit Psion, and brainsplode people as an adorable kitten! The possibilities are fluffy!

Celadrin is another one I like. Elf-fey with laser eyes! What's not to love?

Goliath. Goliath are crazy fun. Powerful Build cannot be overstated.

Lastly, Dragonblood races. Silverbrow Humans are frequently mentioned, and most of the others are mechanically inferior, but so much flavor! Why be a dwarf who fights giants, when you can be one who fights dragons? Yeah, your elf is nice, but mine can melt into a tree! Be an albino orc and get a free Endurance feat! And so forth.

[Anlashok]

Dvati is either one of the coolest races in the game or one of the lamest, depending on whether or not you're playing it the way the writer wanted people to (that would be the latter by the by).

Not really the best choice for a cleric though.

[Deadasadoor]

Changelings from Races of Eberron are one of my favourite races. Disguise Self at will makes for a great stealth/social character, and the shapeshifter subtype qualifies them for Warshaper if you want to be more of a melee brute. Shifters are also lycanthropy-lite and are pretty cool too. MM3 or RoE. I'll second Tibit as well, especially with: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c.

[Telonius]

I've had great fun playing some Shifters. One of them (Caleb "Oz" Oswald) I played as a Film Noir, Sam Spade-inspired Urban Ranger based in Sharn. The other was his uncle Phido, a shady con-man Rogue/Wizard.

Gnomes and Changelings are great, too.

[Ferronach]

That could be really awesome actually. In the world there was an area of (more or less) ancient wizards who were wiped out defeating a draco-lich. But lots of relics and things (like possibly me!??) remain. Which would start with a cool story and background. Plus ive never played a warforged!

I currently play a warforged fighter/juggernaut who was sent througha portal to see what was on the other side.
It was essentially a time portal many many many years into the future.
The portal wiped out my memories and my comprehension of all language apart from the warforged battle commands listed in the RoE? book and the knowledge of my mission/purpose of my creation. Made for really fun roleplaying until the DM decided that I had spent enough time around fleshies to start picking up their language. That is when I had to roll d% to determine my level of comprehension hahaha!

[Necroticplague]

I've always been partial to Sharn. Fairly unique mechanics, some very good possible plot hooks or backstory (you used to be at least three beings), make good Mystic Theurges.

[LoyalPaladin]

The race chosen doesn't really effect a players level of entertainment.
I see your skepticism and raise you an awakened house cat.

My favorite playable race though? Aasimar. I know, how predictable.

[Troacctid]

How about Hadozee? Who doesn't want to be a flying ape, am I right? Ook!

[Segev]

Dvati is either one of the coolest races in the game or one of the lamest, depending on whether or not you're playing it the way the writer wanted people to (that would be the latter by the by).

Not really the best choice for a cleric though.

How do you know how the writer wanted them played, and how is that? (Genuine curiosity, not a rhetorical question hiding a challenge.)

[bekeleven]

Petal, LA+2 though.

[IZ42]

Muckdwellers! Play a muckdweller wizard with a muckdweller familiar and pick up leadership to have an army of muckdwellers!

[Kiassic91]

Thanks guys! This has been some really good stuff. Its tough. I would just be Drow, but noooo, D&D Baltimore has to be racist... ;)
Also I am still going to use a bunch of these ideas as campaign flavors. I love the mind lost warforged, and the cat-ssassin ideas. There is really a lot more valuable material here for me than yall probably assume. I really am very appreciative!


How do you know how the writer wanted them played, and how is that? (Genuine curiosity, not a rhetorical question hiding a challenge.)

I actually agree with this guy, what are the two sides if yall dont mind? im not very familiar with this race... yet.

[Spore]

- Half-Fey/Fey with cold themed powers. Exiled prince of the First World (or any equivalent fey/nature dimension).
- Human Wizard (permanently polymorphed into a Rabbit, complete with its own wizard hat!)
- Dragonborn (everything's better when you're a dragon)
- Pixie (every played a diminuitive character? I bet you havent. Bonus points for Pixie barbarian, Tinkerballa, the Slaughterer!)

[WeaselGuy]

My list of top 10 favorite races, in no particular order, consists of the following:

Marrutact
Muckdweller (Dragonborn never hurts)
Half-Drow
Deepwyrm Drow
Hadozee
Kobold (Dragonwrought Desert, of course)
Fey'ri
Tiefling (Lesser, 9 times outta 10)
Whisper Gnome (Dark, for even more sneakiness)
Szarkai (Albino Drow!)

[Inevitability]

Hairy Spiders!

[MyrPsychologist]

I'm really a true fan of gnomes and halflings. They're not flashy but there is so much depth to their culture and societies.

[Zaq]

I'm a huge fan of illumians (Races of Destiny). Not only is the fluff great (I'm a word nerd, so a race of people literally made out of words is like candy to me), but there's so much you can do with the crunch. Everyone focuses on using Improved Sigil (Krau) for early entry, or using the Naenhoon combo for mini DMM, but there's a lot you can do beyond that. Even if you ignore the sigil combos, a +2 to every check involving your two favorite stats is huge. And of course, using Aeshkrau or Uurkrau to base your bonus spells on STR or DEX is great for a gish or a partial caster.

When I'm playing an illumian, I always feel like my race matters. That isn't always the case when I play other races, except for really stand-out stuff like warforged. But since you can tailor the bonuses that the illumian race gives you to ensure that they always matter for your character, it always feels like being an illumian matters.

[Vhaidara]

Pretty much every race not from the PHB is a win for me. Of PHB races, Gnomes are the only ones I enjoy playing.

[pwcsponson]

I have a few.

Tibbit is a big one. Be a member of the itty bitty kitty committee! Be a Tibbit Rogue, grab a mouthpick knife, and shiv the crap out of a guy from within his own space. Be a Tibbit Psion, and brainsplode people as an adorable kitten! The possibilities are fluffy!

Celadrin is another one I like. Elf-fey with laser eyes! What's not to love?

Goliath. Goliath are crazy fun. Powerful Build cannot be overstated.

Lastly, Dragonblood races. Silverbrow Humans are frequently mentioned, and most of the others are mechanically inferior, but so much flavor! Why be a dwarf who fights giants, when you can be one who fights dragons? Yeah, your elf is nice, but mine can melt into a tree! Be an albino orc and get a free Endurance feat! And so forth.

You've got some good tastes brother.
I second the tibbit and goliath.

I just posted in another thread - be a tibbit warblade/barbarian. Stay in cat form, rage, and use maneuvers like crushing weight of the mountain, comet throw, and death from above to utterly destroy your opponents. Other people just see a cat murder dudes in full plate.

Right now I'm playing a Goliath Barbarian 1, FactotumX packing Knockback and Knowledge Devotion. It's incredibly fun because I get to double dip INT and STR into EVERYTHING (my bullrushes are practically irresistable due to Brains over Brawn, Powerful Build, Improved Bullrush, being strong, being smart, and the Power Attack bonus you get with Knockback).

[Martimus Prime]

I'll second what others have said about goliath and aasimar, and raise you a kenku. I find the kenku's boosts to aid another very helpful for adding some indirect party buffing, and it's pretty hard to beat two claw attacks for LA +0, but I also like the range of possible character themes it opens up (madness domain plus spontaneous cure/inflict plus remove disease/contaigon sounds like a bird doctor from a horror story to me).

[mabriss lethe]

A cleric of Madness just screams Daelkyr Half-blood to me. when it's screaming is coherent, anyway.

[Komatik]

My list of top 10 favorite races, in no particular order, consists of the following:

Fey'ri
Tiefling (Lesser, 9 times outta 10)


Lesser for Tiefling but not Fey'ri? Too much cheese?

[Terazul]

Tibbits are definitely great for the reasons previously mentioned above; go Psychic Rogue for stabbins AND mind asplodey, while also being the team mascot.

Warforged are great for going the "machine who learns about squishies" or "machine who believes squishies are inferior", or so many other routes. Plus, you're a sweet robot either way.

I've always been partial to Shifters as a concept, though feel they're a little lacking mechanically so I usually don't touch em. Saurian shifters especially though, as you can get some of that "I'm secretly a dragon-man disguised as a normal human!" thing going with the right traits + class, without having to eat the tons of ECL from being a dragon.

Half-Giants. Yes.

Halflings are my small race of choice, usually strongheart but any of the "tough tiny dude" subraces work. Ride a dinosaur and throw boomerangs!

and.... Kalashtar. So much going on in their races fluff. Quori, Embededded Crystals, psionic shenanigans all over the place.

[Red Fel]

Tibbits are definitely great for the reasons previously mentioned above; go Psychic Rogue for stabbins AND mind asplodey, while also being the team mascot.

Warforged are great for going the "machine who learns about squishies" or "machine who believes squishies are inferior", or so many other routes. Plus, you're a sweet robot either way.

One of my favorites? Combine the two. Tibbit Psion (Telepath)/ Thrallherd with a Warforged Crusader follower. "The big guy is with me."


I've always been partial to Shifters as a concept, though feel they're a little lacking mechanically so I usually don't touch em. Saurian shifters especially though, as you can get some of that "I'm secretly a dragon-man disguised as a normal human!" thing going with the right traits + class, without having to eat the tons of ECL from being a dragon.

Oh, heck yes. Shifters are generally sub-optimal, but so flavorful. Shifter Druids, by contrast, get the flavor and some crazy options, including racial substitution levels (two of which are awesome) and the Moonspeaker PrC, which is one of the best PrCs for Druids pretty much ever.

[SinsI]

Changeling with Racial Emulation feat are, by definition, the most fun playable Race among small- and middle-sized races, since they are every other race.

[BWR]

I don't really care about the races so much as their culture. Mostly my characters end up being human. I have given in to the temptation to play something merely for the mechanics (most notably a werebear) but that really only comes about if there isn't a proper setting to get involved in.

[Rubik]

The vast majority of reasonably LA'd races are just repainted humans with piddly racial bonuses and penalties which really don't amount to anything. Like, everything in the PHB grants a +/- 1-to-4 bonus or penalty on whatever, but they don't do anything...

...other than, ironically, humans themselves, but only if you make unorthodox use of their bonus feat.

There are (rare) exceptions, but overall, you want a race not for the race itself but for what options it unlocks in class ACFs, feats, PrCs, and other options. You don't take gnome for gnome, you take it for shadowcraft mage. You don't take elf for elf, you take it for elven generalist wizard and for six extra feats from the Dark Chaos Feat Shuffle. You don't take kobold for kobold, you take it for the five thousand options that Dragonwrought can open up.

As I said, there are exceptions, and those are races such as warforged, changelings, tibbits, and anthropomorphic animals. Races which grant unique options or numbers large enough to have an actual impact on the game.

Unfortunately, most authors in 3.X thought that players should be playing humans with the serial numbers filed off, because playing a fantastical race in a fantasy game would be too interesting, and we just can't have that.

I get fed up enough of being human (and being around humans) in real life. That's why I refluff everything I play into something that's actually interesting. It's more than most of the authors bothered to do.

[FocusWolf413]

I'm a huge fan of PF Elans. The whole "my entire race is a secret society of spies" thing is just amazing.

[Red Fel]

Oh crumbs! Did nobody mention Hellbred? Hellbred. You are a person who was Evil but repented on the moment of death. Undeserving of punishment but too late for absolution, your soul is seared by the flames but you are given a reprieve. Alive again in a new body that's as scarred as your spirit, you know one thing - your soul is bound for the pit, unless you can be totally epic.

You are a living metal album.

[Nerdguy88]

I've always been partial to Shifters as a concept, though feel they're a little lacking mechanically so I usually don't touch em. Saurian shifters especially though, as you can get some of that "I'm secretly a dragon-man disguised as a normal human!" thing going with the right traits + class, without having to eat the tons of ECL from being a dragon.

Shifter Druid(racial sub) is pretty good. You switch out wild shape for some pretty huge stat bonuses. get your bite and claws then get rapid strike.

[Red Fel]

Shifter Druid(racial sub) is pretty good. You switch out wild shape for some pretty huge stat bonuses. get your bite and claws then get rapid strike.

You just touched on what is quite possibly the only bad thing about Shifter Druids.

Shifter Druid 1? Replace your killable animal companion with innate bonuses which increase with level. Awesome.

Shifter Druid 4? Replace the rarely-used Resist Nature's Lure (+4 on saves versus Fey SLAs is too dang specific) with a bonus to Initiative and Reflex saves (your only weak save). Comes with a minor penalty to Will saves, but your Wis should be high enough to make that a non-issue. Awesome.

Shifter Druid 5? Give up Wild Shape, one of the most powerful mechanics in 3.5, for extra uses of Shifting, which is admittedly a lackluster aspect of the race. Less than awesome.

[Nerdguy88]

Shifter Druid 5? Give up Wild Shape, one of the most powerful mechanics in 3.5, for extra uses of Shifting, which is admittedly a lackluster aspect of the race. Less than awesome.

Just don't take the 5th level replacement. Don't forget with sub levels you can take any, all, or none.

[Shining Wrath]

For a cleric, if you're just going for giggles and grins, I think awakened beasts could be pretty fun, or take a "normal" race and add the Dragonborn template on top of that.

And Goliath. Be huge. Be menacing.

[Vhaidara]

Oh crumbs! Did nobody mention Hellbred? Hellbred. You are a person who was Evil but repented on the moment of death. Undeserving of punishment but too late for absolution, your soul is seared by the flames but you are given a reprieve. Alive again in a new body that's as scarred as your spirit, you know one thing - your soul is bound for the pit, unless you can be totally epic.

You are a living metal album.

I did. Like I said, everything not in Core. And Gnomes.

[Rubik]

For a cleric, if you're just going for giggles and grins, I think awakened beasts could be pretty fun, or take a "normal" race and add the Dragonborn template on top of that.Dragonborn is neat, but it's better on some races than others. Almost every race loses everything except their type and subtype (and any extraneous racial options), but some lose virtually nothing, and these are generally the ones you want anyway, which just exacerbates the issue I posted on earlier. The worst races lose almost everything, and some of the best races keep everything and gain the dragonborn template, too.

Warforged, for instance, get almost all of their racial abilities from their type and subtype, which dragonborn lets you keep, so they make even better dragonborn than others (which is great, since they're already pretty awesome). Even better, one of the things that warforged lose, their warforged body plating, normally requires a feat to get rid of, and furthermore, dragonborn doesn't get rid of any plating granted by Adamantine Body and similar.

[Red Fel]

Just don't take the 5th level replacement. Don't forget with sub levels you can take any, all, or none.

This is a very good and valuable point. Ordinarily, Druid is one of the only base classes - arguably the only one, full stop - in the PHB that can be taken all the way to 20 with no regrets. Even other spellcasting classes are encouraged to PrC out, as the base class gets them (mostly) nothing but spellcasting progression. But Druids can go all the way up and still get new, valuable abilities.

Shifter Druid with Shifter levels 1 and 4 is like that, but even better. He has traded away a useless ability for a very useful one, and a useful but expendable minion for a powerful self-buff.

Side note, Shifter Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?225294-3-5-The-Shifter-Handbook-%28WIP%29). (Yes, a race deserved its own handbook. This should tell you something.)

[Nerdguy88]

SNIP

Well even if you do take the 5th level sub you have more or less turned yourself into a spell casting barbarian. One of the big benifits of the 5th level sub is the increase in your natural weapon size. Once at 8th and once at 15th. Sure these are pretty high level but that means all your natural weapons now go off the "huge" size. And if you have something like permanent enlarge you now have Gargantuan natural attacks. That is something with rapid strike and improved rapid strike.

Granted this is not as good as straight druid, but he did say what is FUN to play. Not what will ROFLSTOMP everything I come across.

[Roga]

I'll second votes for Tibbit, Warforged, Kenku, and Changeling.
I'll add:
Mechanatrix (Lesser) for cyborg flavor. Go Electrokineticist for nice offense/healing.
Hengeyokai for awesome shapeshifting. Played a Dog one and roleplayed it as a human cursed with lycanthropy.

We also use a minor house rule for Tibbits. Since they are descended from Wizard familiars, we opened up the whole default familiar list to them. Raven tibbits were popular, while Toad or Weasel Tibbits had awesome RP moments. We called them the Animagia.

Favorite builds with races:
Warforged Warlock: Firing Ion Cannon, engage stealth and flight systems.
Sparrow Hengeyokai Healer. Don't mind the tiny bird flying across the battlefield healing everyone up.
Kenku Marshal. Here, let me help you with that.
Changeling Factotum. I get hired to boost your reputation. Lord hires me to rescue his daughter, storm the place as the Lord with me allies. He gets the glory, and I get paid extra.

[Telonius]

Warforged Warlock/Urban Druid (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a) is definitely on my list of things I have to get around to playing sometime.

[Extra Anchovies]

Warforged Warlock

What about a Warforged Warlock/Warblade/Warmage who rides a Warbeast Warthog?

[Vhaidara]

What about a Warforged Warlock/Warblade/Warmage who rides a Warbeast Warthog?

You forgot that he's a Warshaper with a dip into Cloistered Cleric for the War Domain and War Devotion.

Oh, and a Nazi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWeEZuiUtFA)

[atemu1234]

Half Giant Half-Giant.

[bekeleven]

Half Giant Half-Giant.

I can think of two possibilities.

1. You can call your race "Giant."

2. You use the savage species rules on fractional races, which means your race would be called... Half-Giant.(or quarter giant quarter-giant if you prefer)

[Necroticplague]

Another fun race who's ECl has prevented me from ever playing one: Void Walker. Permanently invisible (and you need True Seeing, instead of See Invisible), decent stat boosts, and some at-will SLAs. Mostly, I've always been interested in how one might (ab)use their Teleport without Error at-will ability. Oh yeah, and they get evasion as a feature of their subtype.

[Extra Anchovies]

Oh, and a Nazi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWeEZuiUtFA)

Wow, it's been a while since I've seen that one. Still gets a good laugh out of me, though :smalltongue:


Half Giant Half-Giant.

Half-Ogre Ogre Mage Mage (of the Arcane Order).


Another fun race who's ECl has prevented me from ever playing one: Void Walker. Permanently invisible (and you need True Seeing, instead of See Invisible), decent stat boosts, and some at-will SLAs. Mostly, I've always been interested in how one might (ab)use their Teleport without Error at-will ability. Oh yeah, and they get evasion as a feature of their subtype.

What book is this from, and what subtype gives evasion?

[Tvtyrant]

I like Pixies. Even though you cannot play them until level 5, At-Will Greater Invisibility, being small and flying, and getting a huge int bonus is nice. You can buy off one of their 4 Level Adjustments at level 12 (the next one not until epic levels though), and the image of being a tiny Pixie is hilarious to me.

If you can convince your DM to allow you to play a Petal it can be even more fun. Only LA+2 (although technically for a Cohort), tiny, smart, tough, and gets sleep powers at will.

Edit: Also Jermlaines from the Monster Manual II. Normal int, dropped Cha, huge bonus to Wis, and you get to be tiny! No flying though, and no listed LA.

[Necroticplague]

What book is this from, and what subtype gives evasion?

Online article,Void subtype.

[Th3N3xtGuy]

Minotaur Monk that came from a clan of Minotaur ninjas the Wu-Tang Clan

[Rubik]

Minotaur Monk that came from a clan of Minotaur ninjas the Wu-Tang ClanI assume he specializes in bull-rushing.

[atemu1234]

I assume he specializes in bull-rushing.

And has at least one cross-class rank in Perform (Cowbell)?

[Marlowe]

You forgot that he's a Warshaper with a dip into Cloistered Cleric for the War Domain and War Devotion.

Oh, and a Nazi (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWeEZuiUtFA)

My friends, I was going to click on that. And then I dragged imagination out of bed by the hair and realized exactly what it must be.

[Rubik]

My friends, I was going to click on that. And then I dragged imagination out of bed by the hair and realized exactly what it must be.It must be hilarious.

Love TeamFourStar and everyone on it.

[Necromancy]

Gnome, hands down. It's absolute free RP license to get away with just about anything.

Writing gnome as your race at the top of the character sheet is a message to the DM that says "this character is batcrap crazy and I will not be held responsible for campaign derailment"

Cast a fireball and incinerate half the marketplace? -Evil

Cast a fireball at a butterfly that insulted your mother and accidentally incinerate half the marketplace? -Gnome

[BWR]

Gnome, hands down. It's absolute free RP license to get away with just about anything.

Writing gnome as your race at the top of the character sheet is a message to the DM that says "this character is batcrap crazy and I will not be held responsible for campaign derailment"

Cast a fireball and incinerate half the marketplace? -Evil

Cast a fireball at a butterfly that insulted your mother and accidentally incinerate half the marketplace? -Gnome

Your group handles gnomes and alignment quite a bit differently than mine, it seems.

[Marlowe]

...so. Gnomes are the Kender that you're allowed to play?

I always wondered why I hated them.

[Inevitability]

Edit: Also Jermlaines from the Monster Manual II. Normal int, dropped Cha, huge bonus to Wis, and you get to be tiny! No flying though, and no listed LA.

Good new for you! Jermlaines got a +0 level adjustment in the update booklet for MM2. Find it and rejoice!

[Extra Anchovies]

Good new for you! Jermlaines got a +0 level adjustment in the update booklet for MM2. Find it and rejoice!

Beware making use of the update booklets. Tread not the path of the LA +0 Hairy Spider.

[Necromancy]

Your group handles gnomes and alignment quite a bit differently than mine, it seems.

Rule of funny goes a long way in our games

[Ferronach]

Goblins can be quite entertaining...
One of my friends played in a goblin campaign and was chaotic hungry along with all but one other party member. That guy was chaotic pyro. (Not sure if those designations were homebrew or not)
They ended up eating most of the dungeon and then blowing up an entire mountain...

[LoyalPaladin]

What about a Warforged Warlock/Warblade/Warmage who rides a Warbeast Warthog?
That, is a lot of war... for irony purposes, his name needs to be Edwin Starr.

Off topic: I feel like I don't see you around here nearly as much as I'd like to, Extra Anchovies.

[Troacctid]

I would use War Mind instead of Warmage. It has real synergy with the other stuff. Warblade is the main focus, and you dip Warlock for a couple useful least invocations, then go into War Mind to double all of your maneuvers with Sweeping Strike.

[Extra Anchovies]

That, is a lot of war... for irony purposes, his name needs to be Edwin Starr.

Reminds me of this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18054238&postcount=34) thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18056696&postcount=75) :smallbiggrin:


Off topic: I feel like I don't see you around here nearly as much as I'd like to, Extra Anchovies.

Heehee thanks :smallredface: I kinda vanished for a few months when college got really busy, but I guess I'm back now. Just in time for finals next week. Whoops.

[Tvtyrant]

Good new for you! Jermlaines got a +0 level adjustment in the update booklet for MM2. Find it and rejoice!

Seems busted. No RHD, no LA, +6 to Wisdom and tiny. Now I want to make an unarmed swordsage build with one.

[LoyalPaladin]

Reminds me of this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18054238&postcount=34) thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18056696&postcount=75) :smallbiggrin:
Next time our monk misses every flurry, I am going to sing this so loud.


Heehee thanks :smallredface: I kinda vanished for a few months when college got really busy, but I guess I'm back now. Just in time for finals next week. Whoops.
Well, welcome back to the playground! Good luck on finals!

[Inevitability]

Seems busted. No RHD, no LA, +6 to Wisdom and tiny. Now I want to make an unarmed swordsage build with one.

They indeed are. Then again, the idea of a tiny rat-like fey creature punching its foes to death is hilarious.


Beware making use of the update booklets. Tread not the path of the LA +0 Hairy Spider.

Hairy Spider is not that bad, as you are still stuck without intelligence. It is things like by-the-book Sharn you should look out for.

[Necroticplague]

Hairy Spider is not that bad, as you are still stuck without intelligence. It is things like by-the-book Sharn you should look out for.

What's wrong with by-the-book Sharn? Other than the freaking ECL 9 on them.

[bekeleven]

They indeed are. Then again, the idea of a tiny rat-like fey creature punching its foes to death is hilarious.

I've tried many times with many races to build a viable tiny melee character.

The problem is that 0*2=0, so you have to move into enemy squares even to hit with a lance. There're workarounds, sure, but it ends up not worth it.

[Psyren]

I love Planetouched of all kinds, particularly the elemental-based ones. I also like humanoids with a dark side/aspect of some kind, like Hellbred, Dhampir, and Fetchlings. Finally, I like humanoids based on animals, like Tengu, Vanara and Grippli.

[LoyalPaladin]

I've tried many times with many races to build a viable tiny melee character.

The problem is that 0*2=0, so you have to move into enemy squares even to hit with a lance. There're workarounds, sure, but it ends up not worth it.
Can't you do the Confound the Big Folk + Stand Still = Sneak Attack trick?

[Marlowe]

Rule of funny goes a long way in our games

Right up to pointless wholesale mass-murder and destruction of property, it would seem.

[bekeleven]

Can't you do the Confound the Big Folk + Stand Still = Sneak Attack trick?

Sure, you can get a lot of damage in, but you're still sucking AoOs every time you move into range. That stuff adds up, and there's other dumb builds of optimizing sneak attack, after all, ones without -6 strength and 1D3 weapon dice.

[Inevitability]

What's wrong with by-the-book Sharn? Other than the freaking ECL 9 on them.

This quote:


Each additional hit die gained by a sharn increases either its sorcerer spellcasting level or its cleric spellcasting level by one. For example, an average sharn with 8 HD would have the spellcasting ability of a 9th-level sorcerer and a 7th-level cleric.

This means that if your sharn takes eleven levels in sorcerer, he can end up with the casting ability of a 27th-level sorcerer and a 5th-level cleric, or if he wants a more balanced approach that of a 20th-level sorcerer and 12th-level cleric.

Add Mystic Theurge for more shenanigans. A Sharn Sorcerer 1/Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge 9 can have the spellcasting of both a 22th-level sorcerer and a 21st-level cleric.

[Extra Anchovies]

This means that if your sharn takes eleven levels in sorcerer, he can end up with the casting ability of a 27th-level sorcerer and a 5th-level cleric, or if he wants a more balanced approach that of a 20th-level sorcerer and 12th-level cleric.

Add Mystic Theurge for more shenanigans. A Sharn Sorcerer 1/Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge 9 can have the spellcasting of both a 22th-level sorcerer and a 21st-level cleric.

That's horrific. What book are these guys from?

[atemu1234]

This quote:



This means that if your sharn takes eleven levels in sorcerer, he can end up with the casting ability of a 27th-level sorcerer and a 5th-level cleric, or if he wants a more balanced approach that of a 20th-level sorcerer and 12th-level cleric.

Add Mystic Theurge for more shenanigans. A Sharn Sorcerer 1/Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge 9 can have the spellcasting of both a 22th-level sorcerer and a 21st-level cleric.

That's beautiful. What book are they from?

[Necroticplague]

This quote:



This means that if your sharn takes eleven levels in sorcerer, he can end up with the casting ability of a 27th-level sorcerer and a 5th-level cleric, or if he wants a more balanced approach that of a 20th-level sorcerer and 12th-level cleric.

Add Mystic Theurge for more shenanigans. A Sharn Sorcerer 1/Cleric 1/Mystic Theurge 9 can have the spellcasting of both a 22th-level sorcerer and a 21st-level cleric.

They fixed that when they updated them to 3.5 in Anauroch: The Empire of the Shade. Now it's that they have a racial ability to absorb creatures to give themselves more RHD, and every other RHD increases their spellcastings by one. Oh, and they use favored soul casting instead of cleric casting.

In fact, they relevant line is actually fairly clear on this issue.

Each additional 2 HD gained through advancement (not class levels) by a sharn increases its effective sorcerer and favored-soul levels by 1 each.

EDIT:

That's beautiful. What book are they from?


That's horrific. What book are these guys from?
Originally from Monster's of Faerun, they received an update to 3.5 in the Anauroch: The Empire of the Shade adventure book.

[Segev]

[Sharn] received an update to 3.5 in the Anauroch: The Empire of the Shade adventure book.

Oh really, now? I must get myself a copy of this. They're PCable, you say?

Is that absorption ability a permanent increase, or a temporary one? It sounds a bit on the obnoxious-to-balance side as a permanent one, because it separates advancement from XP.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Oh really, now? I must get myself a copy of this. They're PCable, you say?

Is that absorption ability a permanent increase, or a temporary one? It sounds a bit on the obnoxious-to-balance side as a permanent one, because it separates advancement from XP.

Just forbid absorption and you are good. Besides, mystic theurge advances both her level, as opposed to one every two hit dice; absorption is not very efficient.

The bigger problem is their flight, regeneration, DR, multiple actions, and those hex portals. They can be difficult to deal with even if they are a little behind on casting.

[Necroticplague]

Oh really, now? I must get myself a copy of this. They're PCable, you say?

Is that absorption ability a permanent increase, or a temporary one? It sounds a bit on the obnoxious-to-balance side as a permanent one, because it separates advancement from XP.

Yep. LA 5, 4 RHD. Actually, it doesn't create that many headaches, because an increase in your RHD would increase your ECL by 1, just like a class level would (since this advancement doesn't provide an exception to that fact). So basically, you're replacing a class level with +.5 sorc/divine soul casting and +1 to all mental stats. It would only really become an issue if you decided to constantly use it instead of waiting for XP. And that's dealt with with the other person incorporating having to be willing, and having a very good chance of not working (chance of succeeding is sharn's HD-3*10%). And failure destroys the other party's soul (and almost kills the sharn, but that's what regeneration's for).

[ZamielVanWeber]

ON topic: baby dragons. Steel, Mercury, and Tome wyrmlings can make decent PCs and it is fun to play 1 one year old. Bonus points on tome since you are a one year old as smart as a wizard.

[Segev]

Yep. LA 5, 4 RHD. Actually, it doesn't create that many headaches, because an increase in your RHD would increase your ECL by 1, just like a class level would (since this advancement doesn't provide an exception to that fact). So basically, you're replacing a class level with +.5 sorc/divine soul casting and +1 to all mental stats. It would only really become an issue if you decided to constantly use it instead of waiting for XP. And that's dealt with with the other person incorporating having to be willing, and having a very good chance of not working (chance of succeeding is sharn's HD-3*10%). And failure destroys the other party's soul (and almost kills the sharn, but that's what regeneration's for).

What's in it for the volunteer?

And the reason it could be an issue is the same as if you get a template that increases your LA: you've gained power now at the theoretical expense of later advancement, but if you gain ENOUGH extra power that you're effectively ahead of the XP curve forever...

As a side example, if you get infected with weretiger lycanthropy at level 2, and the game only goes to level 6, and you were playing a rogue or fighter in the first place, the fact that you never "level up" again doesn't really hurt you that much.