[ToB] Question about Crown of White Ravens/Iron Heart Vest etc?

[TinyMushroom]

I'm building a warblade at the moment, and in the back of ToB i see various wondrous items that grant the use of a maneuver "as long as they are worn", even if the user isn't an initiator. They only have to meet the prerequisites of a maneuver.

Am I reading this wrong or is that... really overpowered?

There's nothing said about a use/day or use/encounter. Surely it's not the intention that someone just wears a vest with Iron Heart Surge and goes to town on every debuff that's thrown at them.

Secondary, is this maneuver then added to the maneuvers known of the initiator (and so still needs to be prepared) or does it operate separately?

[Story]

Assuming it operates similarly to Martial Study, you'd only be able to use it once an encounter.

[Pluto!]

They follow the normal maneuver rules.

Prep the maneuver (a 5 minute process, if you don't have a class recovery mechanic), use it, and prep it again (another big timesink).

[Doctor Awkward]

I'm building a warblade at the moment, and in the back of ToB i see various wondrous items that grant the use of a maneuver "as long as they are worn", even if the user isn't an initiator. They only have to meet the prerequisites of a maneuver.

Am I reading this wrong or is that... really overpowered?

There's nothing said about a use/day or use/encounter. Surely it's not the intention that someone just wears a vest with Iron Heart Surge and goes to town on every debuff that's thrown at them.

Secondary, is this maneuver then added to the maneuvers known of the initiator (and so still needs to be prepared) or does it operate separately?

For initiator classes it becomes a known maneuver, and must be readied exactly like you normally would for your class.


And yes. You are spending money to buy any maneuver as a known maneuver. Of course it's overpowered.

[mabriss lethe]

I'd hesitate to call it overpowered. Really freaking useful? yes.

There are two basic scenarios:
1. Owner is in an initiator class: It will give them one more trick that they know, possibly from an out of class discipline, but they still need to meet the prereqs for learning it. It gives you an additional level appropriate option, but nothing out of line from what you can already possess.

2. Owner is not in an initiator class: You get one trick, and it's usable 1/encounter. You'll only qualify for things with a minimum IL equal to half of your HD, so the level appropriate big-guns are out of your league, leaving lesser, but still useful maneuvers.

Both groups will get good mileage out of the item, but they are also trading an item slot to get it, possibly forgoing other equally useful items.

There are some corner cases that can squeeze more out of the items, but they may also have other things they should be doing. A good example would be a Wilder with the psychic renewal feat. they'd have a decent melee chassis, limited options from their own class yet access to a good bit of action economy and a huge pool of pp to power an otherwise substandard recovery mechanic.

[rrwoods]

Far from overpowered IMO, though it's strange that there's three tiers rather than 9. Since it's only 1/encounter for non adepts, I find it to be very similarly priced to a lot of the good items in the MIC that give you useful options.