Gish PRC for Nar Demonbinder

[Yogibear41]

When Entering Nar Demonbider with a Divine Casting class providing the requirements for the spell casting ability, Say Blackguard 10, what would be a good prestige class for advancing the Demonbinder casting without losing BAB?

Normal standbys like abjurant champion, spellsword, and eldritch knight don't work because they require casting 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level arcane spells, and in this particular case the character can only cast 4th and 5th level arcane spells, and 1st through 4th level divine spells.

[darksolitaire]

I can't think any classes proper classes :smallconfused:. Alternative Source Spell or Southern Magician feats could be used to turn a Black Guard spell into arcane one, getting you access to those Gish classes. Maybe.

[Extra Anchovies]

Knight of the Raven (from one of the Ravenloft splats) is full BAB and 8/10 or 9/10 casting, but might not be compatible with Nar Demonbinder.

[Uncle Pine]

If anything, Sanctum Spell will grant you access to PrCs that require 3rd level arcane spells by making your 4th level arcane spells effectively 3rd level spells outside your sanctum.

EDIT: Alternative Source Spell definitely works if you have access to Dragon Magazine. Southern Magician on the other hand would require a very liberal reading as "the actual source of the spell's power doesn't change, nor does its means of preparation".

[ShurikVch]

Fochlucan Lyrist (Complete Adventurer) may be good, if you able to met the requirements

Which race is your Blackguard?
Because it sound like Hexer from Masters of the Wild will be an excellent choice.
You may fulfill requirement of "Lightning Bolt as a divine spell" by dipping in Contemplative and selecting Thunder domain, or Destruction domain and take Customize Domain feat (Dr#325)

Other variants are much more suboptimal:
Dragonslayer (Draconomicon) - 5/10 progression (including 1st level)
Thrall of Demogorgon (Book of Vile Darkness) - 4/10 progression (including 1st level)
Thrall of Orcus (Book of Vile Darkness) - 4/10 progression (including 1st level)
Citadel Elite (Sharn - City of Towers) - 2/5 progression
Tiger Mask (Dragon #300) - 2/5 progression

[WhamBamSam]

You can use Bloodline feats from Dragon Compendium to add 1st-3rd level spells known to a Nar Demonbinder. That would get you into the usual gish PrCs.

[ExLibrisMortis]

How about Ruby Knight Vindicator, minus the Wee Jas themes? Nevermind, Nar Demonbinder doesn't continue your blackguard casting. Still nice for advancing blackguard, though - crusader 6/blackguard 3/rkv 7/nar demonbinder 1/[I haven't a clue, sorry] 3.

[Snowbluff]

When Entering Nar Demonbider with a Divine Casting class providing the requirements for the spell casting ability, Say Blackguard 10, what would be a good prestige class for advancing the Demonbinder casting without losing BAB?


I second the sanctum spell option or divine -> Arcane. Abjurant Champion is the best option, IMO.

I do enjoy the Paladin2/BG10/Nar1/AbjChamp. I was investigating it several months ago.

[ShurikVch]

There is one more PrC: Swiftblade
(http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)
6/10 progression, full BAB, do awesome things with Haste...
To enter, take Arcane Disciple feat for Celerity domain (Haste is 4th level in it)


I second the sanctum spell option or divine -> Arcane. Abjurant Champion is the best option, IMO.

I do enjoy the Paladin2/BG10/Nar1/AbjChamp. I was investigating it several months ago.Sanctum Spell allow you to get into Eldritch Knight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/eldritchKnight.htm), but not to Abjurant Champion, because it required specifically 1st level spells; Spellsword required 2nd level
And Alternative Source Spell doesn't solve the problem too, because he wouldn't have any 1st level arcane spells to prepare into 1st level divine slot

[Snowbluff]

Sanctum Spell allow you to get into Eldritch Knight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/eldritchKnight.htm), but not to Abjurant Champion, because it required specifically 1st level spells; Spellsword required 2nd level
And Alternative Source Spell doesn't solve the problem too, because he wouldn't have any 1st level arcane spells to prepare into 1st level divine slot

Southern Magician, Races of Faerun. Prepare BG spells as Arcane. :l

"Alternative Source Spell." "Doesn't solve the problem." You know that it's dragon material and that it's not the only way to get around Divine/Arcane Spells.

[ShurikVch]

Southern Magician, Races of Faerun. Prepare BG spells as Arcane. :lOne: you need to be a Mulan human
Two:
Can a wizard with the Southern Magician feat qualify for prestige classes that require you to be able to cast a divine spell?
The Southern Magician feat does not allow you to cast divine spells per se. It only allows you to change the spells into divine spells once they have been cast. Thus, you won’t qualify for prestige classes that require you to be able to cast a divine spell. The Southern Magician feat only gives the bonuses specifically listed in the feat’s description.

[Snowbluff]

One: you need to be a Mulan human
Oh no! Requirements! It's a human for the bonus feat and the book suggests playing a blackguard! Oh, shucks... it's from the Forgotten Realms like the Nar Demonbinder, too!


Two:

That's a FAQ, it's not RAW, so you might as well have just told me that you have no argument. That would work if you were required to prepare the spells as arcane, but that's not the case.



Once per day per two spellcaster levels, you can cast a divine spell as an arcane spell, or vice versa. In plain text, you cast the spells as the other type. You are able to cast Arcane spells, since you change the type at cast, and they are arcane spells afterwards.

[ShurikVch]

Oh no! Requirements! It's a human for the bonus feat and the book suggests playing a blackguard! Oh, shucks... it's from the Forgotten Realms like the Nar Demonbinder, too!There is no Mulans in Narfell


That's a FAQ, it's not RAW, so you might as well have just told me that you have no argument. That would work if you were required to prepare the spells as arcane, but that's not the case. In plain text, you cast the spells as the other type. You are able to cast Arcane spells, since you change the type at cast, and they are arcane spells afterwards.Let's see:
Once per day per two spellcaster levels, you can cast a divine spell as an arcane spell, or vice versa. This enables you to bypass arcane spell failure due to armor, or gain additional benefit from spell that functions differently for a divine caster instead of an arcane caster, such as true seeing or magic weapon.
...
The actual source of the spell’s power doesn’t change, nor does its means of preparation. You are merely weaving the strands of magic together in an unconventional way that makes the spell behave somewhat differently. they kinda have a point here: feat give you only what it exactly says; and it says "enables you to bypass arcane spell failure due to armor, or gain additional benefit from spell that functions differently for a divine caster instead of an arcane caster, such as true seeing or magic weapon." Source of spells is still the same.
Seriously, qualification via Southern Magician was ruled out long long time ago. Was you under the rock or what?

[Yogibear41]

Personally, I love being under the rock, its warm and safe.

[ShurikVch]

Personally, I love being under the rock, its warm and safe.If it for real game, then ask your DM, if he(she?) allow qualification via Southern Magician.
Note: Mulan humans reside in Chessenta, Chondalwood, Mulhorand, Thay, and Unther - somewhat far from Narfell (see the map (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/nwn/images/3/30/Faerunmap.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20060103050131))

[sleepyphoenixx]

If it for real game, then ask your DM, if he(she?) allow qualification via Southern Magician.
Note: Mulan humans reside in Chessenta, Chondalwood, Mulhorand, Thay, and Unther - somewhat far from Narfell (see the map (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/nwn/images/3/30/Faerunmap.JPG/revision/latest?cb=20060103050131))

The only requirement to qualify for a regional feat is 2 ranks of knowledge:local for the region in question. I'm too lazy to look up the quote, but it's in the relevant chapter of PGtF.

[ShurikVch]

The only requirement to qualify for a regional feat is 2 ranks of knowledge:local for the region in question. I'm too lazy to look up the quote, but it's in the relevant chapter of PGtF.There it is:
The region system in this book limits each character to one and only one regional feat that must be selected at 1st level. This rule replaces the one on page 28 of the FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign Setting that allows a character to learn another regional feat for each 2 ranks in Knowledge (local) she has. The regional feats presented herein are designed with the intent that a character has access to only one. Allowing a character to choose more than one may unbalance the system.

[Extra Anchovies]

Was you under the rock or what?

*crawls out from under rock*
Huh. I guess I was.

Alternative Source Spell still works for PrC qualification though, right? (Assuming you have spells known of the requisite levels)

[ZamielVanWeber]

There is one more PrC: Swiftblade
(http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/prc/20070327)
6/10 progression, full BAB, do awesome things with Haste...
To enter, take Arcane Disciple feat for Celerity domain (Haste is 4th level in it.

Because Arcane Disciple spells cannot be cast more than 1/day you will have trouble using (cannot use?) them to fulfill the "spend all 3rd level spell slots to exclusively cast Haste" requirement.

[Yogibear41]

Because Arcane Disciple spells cannot be cast more than 1/day you will have trouble using (cannot use?) them to fulfill the "spend all 3rd level spell slots to exclusively cast Haste" requirement.

Technically I guess you could only ever cast 1 3rd level spell per day?

[Yogibear41]

You can use Bloodline feats from Dragon Compendium to add 1st-3rd level spells known to a Nar Demonbinder. That would get you into the usual gish PrCs.

Honestly this is probably the easiest solution. Granted I was hoping for a Prc I could take without having to spend a feat that I didn't already have.

[Snowbluff]

There is no Mulans in Narfell Does demonbinder require being from that region?



Let's see: they kinda have a point here: feat give you only what it exactly says; and it says "enables you to bypass arcane spell failure due to armor, or gain additional benefit from spell that functions differently for a divine caster instead of an arcane caster, such as true seeing or magic weapon." Source of spells is still the same.
Seriously, qualification via Southern Magician was ruled out long long time ago. Was you under the rock or what?

You see, that's pretty much entirely bull crap. Just because the FAQ claims it, doesn't mean it's close to right. In no uncertain terms, the ability to cast as arcane or divine changes. The second part about ASF and stuff like that is clarification, and doesn't encompass the entirety of the feats effect. The PrCs don't care about the source, either, just that it's cast as an arcane or divine spell.

Apparently the people living under rocks weren't lobotomized with cacti like everyone else. I mean, whenever someone comes at me with an FAQ rule, I can't help but facepalm and wonder if the FAQ writers even knew the rules of the game or how things worked.