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FreeRangeOyster
2007-04-18, 01:21 AM
This is in connection with my homebrew setting, but a mechanics question. Certain essential parts of the fluff of my setting have made me reconsider the magic system of D20. I like it for some applications (wizards), not so much for others (bards and druids), and not at all for quite a few (sorcerors and clerics). It works well for gameplay, and most of the time I really don't care too much. But for this I want something different, more freeform, at least for some classes if not all. I always liked the way Mage's system (at least in LARP) worked: I decide what's going to happen, then basically justify it by the specific things I know how to do with magic. Since arcane magic in my new setting is a manipulation of the taint of Chaos on the world, and sorcerors are those who possess the taint themselves and control it instinctively, this sounds a lot better than specific, unchanging spells.

So here's the trick. I need a magic system that will fit within a D20 structure, replacing the existing one, in some if not all situations. I'm not familiar with a lot of different systems, so I'm hoping that y'all can help. I know I could adapt my fluff, or just suck it up and deal with the RAW. If no one has anything to suggest, I'll have to do that anyway. But if you've got anything, I'd be very grateful. Oyster out.

Takamari
2007-04-18, 02:16 AM
Trying to rewrite the magic system is rough. It is rather complex in general. I would suggest that you just suck it up and deal with the RAW. Maybe you could make all spells look a certain way, or having your casters have to complete rituals to become a caster.

I dabbled with working with the Wizard casting ability. I broke it down into points. At 3rd level, a wizard has 4 zeroth, 2 first, and 1 second level spell. Lets say he has 16 int, so he gets one bonus first and one bonus second. All spells are broken down into points that equal their level. So a magic missile costs one point. Zeroth level spells are worth one half point each.

That wizard has 9 points. He can cast 9 magic missiles, or 18 detect magics. Maybe two scorching rays, mage armor, and four magic missiles. He can cast any spell that is in his spell book, but he must read from the book. Any metamagic feat can be applied to the spell for an addition point cost equal to the increase in slot level.

I figured that this made the Wizard a little more versitile, but much more crunchy. Also, you would have to keep special track of what books held what spells. I threw it out because it was just too much work.

Hope this helped.

Darkxarth
2007-04-18, 02:51 AM
This (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/spellPoints.htm) is a pretty neat way of working it. It makes it a lot more freeform, what with all characters being spontaneous casters now. Yeah, it gets more complicated than the regular system, but if you've got more experienced player, I think they can handle it.

Jack Mann
2007-04-18, 04:41 AM
Of course, spell points make the casters a lot more powerful. There's a reason psions effectively have fewer spells per day than the basic casters (break down the point value of the spells to compare them).

Arcana Evolved has a pretty nice system. It combines features of the sorceror and cleric systems, with some other tricks as well.

You can prepare any spell on your spell list (which depends on your class, naturally, but you can add more spells with feats). Rather having a certain number of spell A or cantrip B you can cast, you have a set number of spell slots you can use to cast, like a sorceror. Effectively, you can change your spells known each day.

You can also combine spell slots or split them to cast higher or lower spells, giving you some of the versatility of the spell points system. If you use an extra spell slot, you cast your spell laden, which can give it extra effects; a bit like augmenting a psionic power.

There are other neat tricks you can do by adding spell templates, each of which has some cost (sometimes, it's really just the cost of a feat, sometimes you have to cast the spell laden, sometimes you need a material component). These are a bit like metamagic feats.

This is much more versatile than normal casting. It's also more powerful, just like the spell point system. It works because the spells in Unearthed Arcana are much more balanced than D&D spells, which means they're generally weaker for their level. Add in sane item creation rules, and you've got a winner.

Sergeantbrother
2007-04-18, 08:21 AM
I came up with an alternative magic system a while back and posted it here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21682)

It wasn't very well liked, but I thought you might like to see it. Since that time I have adjusted it a little bit to make it more balanced.

Raum
2007-04-18, 08:46 AM
I'd recommend looking through alternate d20 systems to see whit fits what you want best. Arcana Evolved has already been mentioned. There's also True20 and a variety of other niche systems (Black Company, Highlander, d20 Modern, etc).

Portent
2007-04-18, 06:46 PM
I second the Black Company system. Essentially, you spend a feat (Black Company mages get lots of bonus feat slots for just such a purpose) to learn the "base" version of a spell. Then you can make the spell progressively more difficult to cast in order to get more varied and more powerful effects. Reminds me of the Legend of the Five Rings and the Mage: the Ascension spellcasting systems.

RandomNPC
2007-04-18, 07:22 PM
the spell points are basically the MP from videogames, instead of per day, i realized it when i played a re-make of final fantasy 1. the origonal did per day the remake does MP. per day was better in videogame format.

i've been wanting to re-do the spell system for a while, all i could come up with is a smaller list of components, kind of like ultima oneline, eight components, i think some spells called for 3 of them, others only for 1. different combo different spell.

then there's combied spells, you could say since smoeone knows burning hands, and ray of frost, they could spend two weeks and a CL check DC15+higher spell level to learn ray of fire and frosty hands.

Matthew
2007-04-18, 10:20 PM
Somebody did a good rewrite of the MAgic system a while back, but I don't seem to have a link to it. He did a PDF and everything. Anybody remember it?

AmberVael
2007-04-18, 10:27 PM
Well, if you want a rather mutable and different type of magic, I could recommend the Channeler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39048) homebrew I created.
It is, however, slightly limited in what it can do. But it definitely is mutable, quite possibly more balanced, and different.

GunMage
2007-04-18, 11:06 PM
You can always try the magic system from warhammer fantasy roleplay. Basically, it makes magic a stat, which would improve with caster levels. To cast a spell you can roll a number of d10's equal to or less than your magic stat. You would have to roll equal to or higher than the spells casting number for it to work, but bad things would happen if you rolled doubles, triples, or quadruples on the dice, ranging from bad body odor to curdling milk to the spell exploding and a greater deamon popping out of your head. Aaah, good times.

FreeRangeOyster
2007-04-18, 11:49 PM
Vael, I have to say I really like that class. In retrospect, I think that's the closest I'm going to get to the flexibility I want without breaking the d20 system. I'm not sure where the channeler would fit in the fluff, but I am sure I'll be finding a way to make it so.
I really would like an almost completely freeform, RP-heavy magic system, but the reality is this: that's not D&D. If I adapt this setting for other systems, that's another matter entirely, but for now I have to swallow the food I've got. Mmmm, crunchy...
Thanks all. Oyster out.

AmberVael
2007-04-18, 11:58 PM
Glad to be of service. :smallsmile: