I wanna be a dragon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[NorseFox]

I am looking to be a Wizard and turn in to a dragon. I want to be able still be useful as well though. I need to be lvl 7 and possibly using the 32 pt bye but at the same time I might have to roll my numbers. This is the first character that I am making just because I want some sort of "Cool" element.

[OldTrees1]

Dragonborn(Breath) Raptorian Wizard 7 could be an alternative since your natural form is a flying scaly 6 limbed creature with a breath weapon (sounds like a Dragon to me).

[NorseFox]

Dragonborn(Breath) Raptorian Wizard 7 could be an alternative since your natural form is a flying scaly 6 limbed creature with a breath weapon (sounds like a Dragon to me).

I really want to be able to turn in to a proper dragon. I want my alignment to matter on what dragon I can choose.

[Darrin]

I really want to be able to turn in to a proper dragon.

Can you tell us what books you have available?

In Core, standard polymorph is available at Wizard 7. This gives you access to any dragon form up to 7 HD, so that would include:

very young brass dragon (7 HD)
wyrmling silver dragon (7 HD)
etc.

If you have access to Dragon Magic, there are several polymorph spells specifically tailored to turn the caster into a dragon: least dragonshape (Sorcerer/wizard 3rd), lesser dragonshape (Sorcerer/wizard 6th), and aspect of the platinum dragon (Sorcerer/wizard 7th). Polymorph spells don't really care what your alignment is in your current form or your new form.

If you want to be a dragon all the time, the easiest way is to play a kobold and take the Dragonwrought feat. This changes your type to dragon, and you can pick up Dragon Wings + Improved Dragon Wings for flight. Take some levels in Dragonfire Adept (Dragon Magic) and you'll have a breath weapon you can use every round, along with some draconic invocations (spell-like abilities).

[Jack_Simth]

I am looking to be a Wizard and turn in to a dragon. I want to be able still be useful as well though. I need to be lvl 7 and possibly using the 32 pt bye but at the same time I might have to roll my numbers. This is the first character that I am making just because I want some sort of "Cool" element.

Hmm...

Well, at 7th, you're getting Polymorph, but it doesn't last long. Alter Self could help (over 1 hour per casting, assuming 3.5), but you'd have to already have the dragon type. That's doable; put the Dragonwrought feat on a Kobold.

So a Dragonwrought Kobold Wizard-7 build could look something like:

Feats: Dragonwrought (1st), Extend Spell (3rd), Assume Supernatural Ability (Savage Species) (6th), Scribe Scroll (Wizard Bonus), Craft Wondrous Item (other Wizard Bonus)
Spells: Make sure to grab Alter Self.
Three Extended Alter Self spells and three Alter Self spells mean you can be a Tiny, Small, or Medium sized dragon for ten and a half hours a day (provided they've got 5 HD or less). In core, that'd be... Wyrmling Black (tiny), Wyrmling Green (Small), Wyrmling White (Tiny), Wyrmling Brass (Tiny), Wyrmling Copper (Tiny). Also a Pseudodragon, of course.

There's a feat in Savage Species you might like: Assume Supernatural Ability. That'll let you pick up a breath weapon. That's also specific to the creature, so you'd only get it if you turned into the one specific dragon you picked.

[NorseFox]

DM said no to Kobolds lol

[Urpriest]

DM said no to Kobolds lol

Because they're overpowered, or because of the fluff? If the latter, the DM probably won't be ok with you playing a character who spends most of your time as a Dragon either.

[NorseFox]

Because they're overpowered, or because of the fluff? If the latter, the DM probably won't be ok with you playing a character who spends most of your time as a Dragon either.

Because of the overpowered factor. He is ok with the Dragon thing.

[danzibr]

Because of the overpowered factor. He is ok with the Dragon thing.
This makes me leery. What part in particular? If you stay away from cheesy stuff, DWK isn't overpowered at all.

[Jack_Simth]

DM said no to Kobolds lol

Well, there's the Dragonborn of Bahamut from Races of the Dragon. One of the racial features mentions that "for all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a dragon and a member of her original race". Pick a standard Small race and the same stuff applies as for Kobolds. Better ability mods, too, for that matter.

[Ruethgar]

Grab a Dragon or Drakken familiar and cast Familiar Form(Dr #280) to control it. If you get two familiars you can enter one permanently then retrain away the Extra Familiar or Obtain Familiar feat so it has proper health. You would lose your body but be a dragon(or dragon like creature). The same thing can be done with Magic Jar but it is a little trickier and has a bit less leeway in the spell description.

[Nibbens]

The old 2nd edition campaign setting "Council of Wyrms (http://www.amazon.com/Council-Wyrms-Fantasy-Roleplaying-12RefCards/dp/1560768576/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1430751106&sr=8-2&keywords=council+of+wyrms)" offers a neat insight into playing as the dragons we all know and love.

Yes yes, I know, I know, it's second edition, but still. Food for thought.

[Ruethgar]

There are also the LA +0 dragons.

Red(Fire) Medium 30ft Dragon Traits
Gold(Fire) Medium 30ft Swim Dragon Traits
Blue(Earth) Small 20ft Electric Dragon Traits
Bronze(Water) Small 20ft Swim Electric Dragon Traits
Silver(Cold) Small 20ft Acid +2 Cha Dragon Traits
Green(Air) Small 20ft Swim Acid Dragon Traits
Brass(Fire) Tiny 20ft +2 Con Dragon Traits
Copper(Earth) Tiny 20ft Acid +2 Con Dragon Traits
Black(Water) Tiny 20ft Swim Acid +2 Con -2 Int -2 Cha Dragon Traits
White(Cold) Tiny 20ft Swim Burrow +2 Con -4 Int -4 Cha Dragon Traits
Kobold(Dragonwrought) Small 30ft -4 Str +2 Dex -2 Con, Light Sensitivity, Miner Skills, This Stuff (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)

All of these can by RAW take the Alternate Form feat form Dragons of Eberron p15 though it would require Sorcerous spellcasting rather than Wizard. Kobold is of course the cheesy choice but all can qualify at level 3 with Loredrake. So you could act like a normal human in Alternate Form and then shapeshift for dramatic effect. It would of course lack power, but thematically would simulate what you're looking for I believe. Being a hatchling red or gold would have the most size, though silver is the only one with two immunities and a boost to cha.

[Nerdguy88]

Kobolds are by far one of the weakest "Dragon" species. WoTC has even officially said that while most PH1 Races are CR Class Level-1 the Kobold is CR Class level-3. That is including the web enhancement. Yes they have cheese but all that is required is for your DM to say "No you can not have sovereign archtypes." and bam you have a balanced races.

Edit: I should know. My favorite race is Kobold and I play them every chance I get.

[Urpriest]

There are also the LA +0 dragons.

Red(Fire) Medium 30ft Dragon Traits
Gold(Fire) Medium 30ft Swim Dragon Traits
Blue(Earth) Small 20ft Electric Dragon Traits
Bronze(Water) Small 20ft Swim Electric Dragon Traits
Silver(Cold) Small 20ft Acid +2 Cha Dragon Traits
Green(Air) Small 20ft Swim Acid Dragon Traits
Brass(Fire) Tiny 20ft +2 Con Dragon Traits
Copper(Earth) Tiny 20ft Acid +2 Con Dragon Traits
Black(Water) Tiny 20ft Swim Acid +2 Con -2 Int -2 Cha Dragon Traits
White(Cold) Tiny 20ft Swim Burrow +2 Con -4 Int -4 Cha Dragon Traits
Kobold(Dragonwrought) Small 30ft -4 Str +2 Dex -2 Con, Light Sensitivity, Miner Skills, This Stuff (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)

All of these can by RAW take the Alternate Form feat form Dragons of Eberron p15 though it would require Sorcerous spellcasting rather than Wizard. Kobold is of course the cheesy choice but all can qualify at level 3 with Loredrake. So you could act like a normal human in Alternate Form and then shapeshift for dramatic effect. It would of course lack power, but thematically would simulate what you're looking for I believe. Being a hatchling red or gold would have the most size, though silver is the only one with two immunities and a boost to cha.

I don't think you're allowed to play a sub-wyrmling without using the monster class.

[Nerdguy88]

I don't think you're allowed to play a sub-wyrmling without using the monster class.

You are not. Savage Species is pretty clear. You must take the class to completion before you can multiclass out.

[Urpriest]

You are not. Savage Species is pretty clear. You must take the class to completion before you can multiclass out.

That much is true. I had suspected Ruethgar was instead suggesting playing a hatchling (there are rules for them in Draconomicon, starting from 1RHD), but those still aren't playable until they hit wyrmling IIRC.

[Ruethgar]

The sources of the core ten dragons listed are Dragon Magazine #332 and #320 in which it gives the rule that if using that variant monster class you must complete your advancement through an age category but it also makes the new age category of "Hatchling" which you have completed the advancement through by virtue of choosing to play as one of the listed dragons. Only if you take a level in a Dragon class, would you have to continue to take levels in it until wyrmling is complete. Otherwise, if you just avoid the Dragon class levels, you can take whatever you want. You miss out on flight, breath weapons, movement modes, natural armor and ability boosts, but you get to pick whatever class you want and are a true dragon.

Edit: I was unaware of any reprinting or similar rules in the Dracinomicon. Looking now.

[Urpriest]

The sources of the core ten dragons listed are Dragon Magazine #332 and #320 in which it gives the rule that if using that variant monster class you must complete your advancement through an age category but it also makes the new age category of "Hatchling" which you have completed the advancement through by virtue of choosing to play as one of the listed dragons. Only if you take a level in a Dragon class, would you have to continue to take levels in it until wyrmling is complete. Otherwise, if you just avoid the Dragon class levels, you can take whatever you want. You miss out on flight, breath weapons, movement modes, natural armor and ability boosts, but you get to pick whatever class you want and are a true dragon.

Edit: I was unaware of any reprinting or similar rules in the Dracinomicon. Looking now.

The Draconomicon concept of hatchlings is distinct. I'll have to check the Dragon articles when I get home, but IIRC they don't treat Hatchling as an age category.

[Segev]

How crucial is the "wizard" aspect of this character? If you're willing to play a Dragonfire Adept, instead (it's a Warlock-like class with dragon-themed class features and a breath weapon instead of eldrich blast), and play either a white dragon wyrmling (if you want more LA and fewer HD for LA-buyoff purposes) or a pseudodragon (if you prefer the HD).

Both are ECL 5 as starting characters, so you could get your first level of DFA at ECL 6. The class gives them lots of BW options and magical toys to play with, though the white wyrmling's natural breath weapon stacks weirdly and really gets overlapped in quality by the class's, eventually. If you go with the white wyrmling, I'd try to talk the DM into letting you combine the natural breath weapon with a cold breath weapon from the class to give you +1d6 cold damage on the class's breath weapon, giving up the racial one. Either that, or count your dragon HD as DFA HD for purposes of your cold-based breath weapon.

[Ruethgar]

"At levels before wyrmling status is attained, dragons are considered hatchlings (age category 0)."


"A dragon character may not multiclass into a standard character class until it completes the progression of its current age category"

You don't attain an age category until you've completed the progression. You automatically have the Hatchling age category at levels lower than Wyrmling and thus have completed the progression. Even if you consider Hatchling to still be progressing up to the level before it changes to wyrmling, it is still one level off of the White Wyrmling's 5 ECL, minus one more with LA buyoff for ECL 3 and just a level behind on sorcerer progression with Loredrake. Plus you could still multiclass with a non-standard character class like a Stalwart Battle Sorcerer or some such.