Trying to Update my Pathfinder Monk

[5w337x7007h]

Unchained was recently released, and my GM is allowing me to update my Monk to the newest version. So far, I'm not sure what to do I was using a Drunken [Master] of Many Styles build.
I looked it over and while the Unchained Monk can be powerful, it does have it's drawbacks. All of the Archetypes work with the new monk, except for the ones that replace flurry of blows. That is unchained monk murder as you not only lose Flurry, but you also lose Style Strike and functional use of Ki until a full level after you've gotten it.

I've got to rebuild the monk, but I need some advice on ways to do that. I'm curious what kind of build a Monk of Zon-Kuthon would look like.

[Psyren]

Unchained Monk does not work with any existing monk archetypes (http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lheb?Society-Unchained) (save for having access to Qinggong powers.) You'll have to build a monk from scratch that fits your vision, or stick with the old one. Unfortunately, I don't think Unchained Monk has much synergy with improvised weapons, so for your monk specifically you may be better off not upgrading. You can make your existing monk better by adding on the Stamina system.

[5w337x7007h]

Well that's good to know, I'll have to pass that information on to my GM. But if I were to change to an Unchained Monk, what is recommended for a Monk that follows Zon-Kuthon? I'd like to know how that kind of monk would work.

Are Vows still functional though?

[Psyren]

According to Inner Sea Gods, Kuthite monks focus on striking vital spots and causing intense pain. If you want that in your concept, you'll probably want ways to cause bonus damage, like Boar Style/Jabbing Style/Precise Strike, as well as employing poison if you can. (You can use the Qinggong version of Diamond Body to cover your hands in contact poison without fear.) You'll also probably want Quivering Palm.

Vows might actually work because they still get Still Mind, but keep in mind that UnMonk has a weak will save, so losing Still Mind is going to suck even more now compared to what you get for it. You can mitigate this by getting Wis to attack, thus needing less Strength and boosting your will save - simply VMC Cleric for the Channel ability and then take Channel Smite + Guided Hand. Becoming Wis-focused will also make your stunning fist/quivering palm/punishing kick et al. more brutal, and give you even more ki.

[5w337x7007h]

I'm not going to worry about vows, the idea was to take vow of chains, and it's not as worth it as I think it is. It'd be more flavor for a monk of zon-kuthon, don't you think? I'm going to put my 4th level bonus into Wis, so I'll have awesome god-stats. Str 18, Dex 16, Con 15, Int 15, Wis 18, Cha 11, at 4th level.

I'll forgo the vows, since they fall under the "Archetype" issue. Can I still use Style feats if I'm grappling?

[Milo v3]

I'll forgo the vows, since they fall under the "Archetype" issue.

Actually, because of the weirdness of how they wrote the vow rules they aren't classed as a monk archetype. Anyone with a ki pool (including unchained monk and ninja) can take vows.

[IZ42]

Actually, because of the weirdness of how they wrote the vow rules they aren't classed as a monk archetype. Anyone with a ki pool (including unchained monk and ninja) can take vows.
But they must have the Still Mind class feature to replace. Important thing to note.

[Milo v3]

But they must have the Still Mind class feature to replace. Important thing to note.

Nope, only the monks need to trade that away. Ninja can get vows even though they lack the Still Mind feature. It was Really Really badly written.

[Psyren]

Actually, because of the weirdness of how they wrote the vow rules they aren't classed as a monk archetype. Anyone with a ki pool (including unchained monk and ninja) can take vows.

Correct on both counts. Though it is considered an "archetype" on the PFSRD, technically the vows are not (and since even non-monks can take them, the UnMonk is definitely able.) Though we'll have to see if this stands for PFS.

[Yanisa]

Nope, only the monks need to trade that away. Ninja can get vows even though they lack the Still Mind feature. It was Really Really badly written.
To make it weirder, there is been an errata so that any class looses Still Mind... not that that changes anything. It's still not required to have Still Mind to get vows in the first place...

Have some sources on that oddity (or just check out the book + errata):

Originally the line was (See here (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MonkVows.aspx) for the pre-errata):

A monk who takes a vow never gains the still mind class feature, even if he abandons all his vows.
Nowadays they changed that to (Source here (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spellcastingClassOptions/monk.html))

The ability to take these vows replaces the still mind class feature.
Notice the lack of "monk" in the changed version. :smalltongue:

Also the Paizo maintained PRD is the only online place where non monks gets mentioned at all...

This section introduces monk vows, which any user of ki can take to increase his ki pool.

[Psyren]

Also the Paizo maintained PRD is the only online place where non monks gets mentioned at all...

To be fair, that line is in Ultimate Magic. So if it is not in the PFSRD for some reason, those folks are at fault; it did come from the books (rather than being, say, stealth online errata of some kind.)

[Yanisa]

To be fair, that line is in Ultimate Magic. So if it is not in the PFSRD for some reason, those folks are at fault; it did come from the books (rather than being, say, stealth online errata of some kind.)

Yeah it is in the books, but judging from the layout, I guess the line was disregarded as fluff text rather then rules and hence not included. :smallconfused:

Edit; Wait, my bad. It is there (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-vows) but google wasn't picking it up when I googled for the exact phrase. Yeah let's blame google for my inability to read. :smallredface:

[5w337x7007h]

Since the Unchained monk already takes a hit on Will saves, I'm not sure if it's a good idea to try for vows. I've got about one more session to decide on this and after that it's official.

I'll chat it over with my GM, I'll even look up the players guide for Skulls & Shackles. Right now I need to decide on what feats I have to choose.

Lets start with this,

1 - Dodge C, Power Attack H, Mobility B
2 - Combat Reflexes B
3 - Boar Style C

[Psyren]

Is Stamina allowed? If so, Combat Stamina should definitely be one of your level 1 feats. That will power up many of your other feats.

[5w337x7007h]

I don't know about combat stamina. It's a new mechanic and he'll have to look it over, but if it's turned down, how do those feats look?

[IZ42]

Hmmm... To get the most use out of Dodge and Mobility, I'd suggest using the Panther Style (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/style-feats) line of feats instead. If you're going a Dex based monk, which based on your feat selection, you most likely will want to be, pick up Weapon Finesse instead of PA, then at later levels pick up Piranha Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/piranha-strike-combat) (Power Attack for Finesse Weapons, much better for them), and if your GM allows it, Deadly Agility (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war/feats#TOC-Deadly-Agility-Combat-), which gives you Dex to damage, and is from DSP. Slightly more feat heavy than what you currently have, but oh well.

[5w337x7007h]

I don't intend to be Dex-based, only use dodge and mobility as a defensive measure, when I need to dance around the battlefield.

So how about this,

1 - Combat Reflexes H, Mobility B, Power Attack C
2 - Improved Grapple B
3 - Boar Style C

I can pick up Deadly Grappler at 5th, Improved Trip at 6th, Boar Ferocity at 7th, and Greater Grapple at 9th.

Does Boar Shred add an extra d6 to the bleed from Boar Style? How does that feat work?