Help with Combat Mechanic

[SixWingedAsura]

So a friend and I are developing a playing card based tabletop RPG, but we've hit a bit of a sticking point. We have two forms of power, magic and psionics. Magic is ironically enough, very stable and non-random, and the mechanic shows it as you only have to play the skill its associated with to cast it. Psionics on the other hand we're having some trouble with, so I come to you for help.

Mechanics-wise, Psionics are supposed to be a risk vs reward style, where you can build up charges to make the skill more powerful (moreso than magic of the same type) but has a chance of backfiring on the user. However, the last couple of mini-games we had players doing didn't fit thematically, or at the very least didn't work often enough to make it stand up to Magic.

So does anyone have any ideas we could possibly implement? We've tried Blackjack and High-Low, but neither worked, nor did they seem fitting.

[Wartex1]

Solution: Numbered cards that increase potency. The total of the cards' numbers is the strength, but the number of cards itself is the chance of backfiring.

[Jay R]

I strongly urge you to find a copy of Before I Kill You, Mr. Bond, or its successor after the legal nonsense, James Ernest's Totally Renamed Spy Game.

It has a very straightforward mechanic for an escalating power, that tends to lead people to risk too much for ever-increasing reward.

[erikun]

How chancy do you want the abilities to be? Because a poker hand will usually result is no match, but has the potential for very high numbers with possible three-of-a-kind or straights. You could also have a situation where a poker hand results in a much stronger effect, which a non-match hand could still succeed but generate backlash if it fails.

[Vitruviansquid]

Some examples of failed mechanics or a more specific description of your card mechanics might help, because I barely know what you're talking about right now.

Without those, what I would suggest is that when a player declares they are using a psionic power, they will then have to draw cards to see how powerful it is.

Each card you draw is a "charge" on that power, and powers get stronger with more charges. What keeps you from just maximizing charges is that the total on the cards you draw cannot exceed some number determined by which psionic power you are using (some powers have a larger limit than others). If you exceed that number, your power fails, causing a backlash that has a negative effect on your character.

So as an example:

1. Alice declares she wants to cast Telekinetic Fist, which has a number limit of 18.
2. To cast the spell in the first place, she needs a charge, so she draws a card - it's an 8.
3. She can elect to cast the spell at 1 charge, but decides there's no way to exceed a combined value of 18, so she draws again. The new card is a 5, bringing her total to 13. She now has 2 charges because she's drawn 2 cards.
4. She can elect to cast the spell at 2 charges, but decides this is an important spell and she wants a third charge even though the spell could fail. She draws again, and it's a 10, causing the spell to be 23, which exceeds the number limit. Her spell fails to go off, and her character receives the backlash effect.

[SixWingedAsura]

Some examples of failed mechanics or a more specific description of your card mechanics might help, because I barely know what you're talking about right now.

Without those, what I would suggest is that when a player declares they are using a psionic power, they will then have to draw cards to see how powerful it is.

Each card you draw is a "charge" on that power, and powers get stronger with more charges. What keeps you from just maximizing charges is that the total on the cards you draw cannot exceed some number determined by which psionic power you are using (some powers have a larger limit than others). If you exceed that number, your power fails, causing a backlash that has a negative effect on your character.

So as an example:

1. Alice declares she wants to cast Telekinetic Fist, which has a number limit of 18.
2. To cast the spell in the first place, she needs a charge, so she draws a card - it's an 8.
3. She can elect to cast the spell at 1 charge, but decides there's no way to exceed a combined value of 18, so she draws again. The new card is a 5, bringing her total to 13. She now has 2 charges because she's drawn 2 cards.
4. She can elect to cast the spell at 2 charges, but decides this is an important spell and she wants a third charge even though the spell could fail. She draws again, and it's a 10, causing the spell to be 23, which exceeds the number limit. Her spell fails to go off, and her character receives the backlash effect.

Actually, that's not too terribly bad. It gives the player enough control to decide when and how they want to stop, but also has a risk/reward mechanic that fits thematically. I'll definitely have to give this a shot and see how it works out. I can play with the difficulty between each psionic ability and the tech used to perform it. Thanks!

EDIT: The base mechanics of the game itself actually will have no bearing on the psionic 'mini game'. It's just a way to differentiate it from magic by giving it its own mechanic.

Double Edit: Now I just have to figure out what value to put things at. As it stands. all cards are escalating in value (so a Jack is 11, Queen is 12, King is 13 and Ace is 14.) Putting the number too low would make it incredibly hard to perform anything over two charges.

[KillianHawkeye]

Now I just have to figure out what value to put things at. As it stands. all cards are escalating in value (so a Jack is 11, Queen is 12, King is 13 and Ace is 14.) Putting the number too low would make it incredibly hard to perform anything over two charges.

I would suggest just using Blackjack card values. It still gives more chances to draw a 10 than any other value, but it keeps the overall value range limited to a more manageable number. Also, most people are already familiar with Blackjack.

Using this setup, a value limit of 10 guarantees at least one successful charge, with every additional 10 guaranteeing one additional success. This should make it pretty easy to calibrate the limits depending on whether you want a power to be difficult to activate successfully, easy to activate but difficult to overcharge, or even easy to get a two or three charges but risky to try going higher.

I'm assuming they're drawing from a full and shuffled deck every time?

[Vitruviansquid]

Here's how I figure it:

1 charge should be a weak power, 2 charges a medium power, 3 charges a good power, and 4 charges are a psion's wet dream.

Aces are 14, and numbered cards start at 2, so the average number on each card is going to be 8.

You want people to comfortably draw a 2nd card without going bust, but make the 3rd card a gamble most of the time. Thus, you should start experimenting with values that are more than 16, but no more than 24. I expect that since most situations reward reliability in RPG's, you will want to stay on the higher side of what the probabilities demand.

I would start with 21, which is an easy enough number to remember because of Blackjack.

I would also put Jokers in the deck and make drawing a joker mean something special. It can be a penalty (draw a joker - bust instantly) or a bonus (draw a joker - the joker is a 0, but counts as 2 charges, though you have to stop drawing as soon as you get a joker)

edit: Actually, your idea for playing card-based mechanics got me pretty interested, so here's a few freebies if you want to expand your system.

1. Divine power (theme: luck)- There are 4 straightforward generalist effects, like healing, dealing damage, some kind of generally useful buff and some kind of generally useful debuff. Each generalist effect is assigned to a suit. When you use divine power, you draw a card and you get the effect of the suit. If you get a joker, draw twice and get both.

2. Wild magic (theme: improvisation, hilariousness)- There is a list of 14 spells, each one corresponding to a number. Spells run a spectrum of situational, generalist, and have all sorts of different effects. When you want to use Wild magic, you draw two cards and pick one, then use the spell that card's number corresponds to. Some Wild Magic spells have drawbacks or don't really apply to the situation you are in, but you CANNOT elect to cast neither spell, you MUST pick one or the other (it's more fun this way). Drawing a joker allows you to pick any of your 14 spells.

3. Elemental magic (theme: conserving power, back-loaded power) - Diamonds is water, Hearts is fire, Clubs is air, Spades is earth. Like with conventional magic, you can pick whatever spell you want, but Elemental magic spells tend to be weak to start with. Whenever you cast a spell, you can draw two cards. You can keep each cards as long as it is not the opposing element to the spell you cast (if you cast an air spell, you can't keep a Spade). At any point instead of casting a spell conventionally, you can choose to consume all the cards of the same element that you are holding in order to power it up. Jokers count as all elements. Cards cannot be saved up over a long period of in-game time.

[SixWingedAsura]

Here's how I figure it:

1 charge should be a weak power, 2 charges a medium power, 3 charges a good power, and 4 charges are a psion's wet dream.

Aces are 14, and numbered cards start at 2, so the average number on each card is going to be 8.

You want people to comfortably draw a 2nd card without going bust, but make the 3rd card a gamble most of the time. Thus, you should start experimenting with values that are more than 16, but no more than 24. I expect that since most situations reward reliability in RPG's, you will want to stay on the higher side of what the probabilities demand.

I would start with 21, which is an easy enough number to remember because of Blackjack.

I would also put Jokers in the deck and make drawing a joker mean something special. It can be a penalty (draw a joker - bust instantly) or a bonus (draw a joker - the joker is a 0, but counts as 2 charges, though you have to stop drawing as soon as you get a joker)

edit: Actually, your idea for playing card-based mechanics got me pretty interested, so here's a few freebies if you want to expand your system.

1. Divine power (theme: luck)- There are 4 straightforward generalist effects, like healing, dealing damage, some kind of generally useful buff and some kind of generally useful debuff. Each generalist effect is assigned to a suit. When you use divine power, you draw a card and you get the effect of the suit. If you get a joker, draw twice and get both.

2. Wild magic (theme: improvisation, hilariousness)- There is a list of 14 spells, each one corresponding to a number. Spells run a spectrum of situational, generalist, and have all sorts of different effects. When you want to use Wild magic, you draw two cards and pick one, then use the spell that card's number corresponds to. Some Wild Magic spells have drawbacks or don't really apply to the situation you are in, but you CANNOT elect to cast neither spell, you MUST pick one or the other (it's more fun this way). Drawing a joker allows you to pick any of your 14 spells.

3. Elemental magic (theme: conserving power, back-loaded power) - Diamonds is water, Hearts is fire, Clubs is air, Spades is earth. Like with conventional magic, you can pick whatever spell you want, but Elemental magic spells tend to be weak to start with. Whenever you cast a spell, you can draw two cards. You can keep each cards as long as it is not the opposing element to the spell you cast (if you cast an air spell, you can't keep a Spade). At any point instead of casting a spell conventionally, you can choose to consume all the cards of the same element that you are holding in order to power it up. Jokers count as all elements. Cards cannot be saved up over a long period of in-game time.

Great advice, and I like your ideas. While I'm not sure about using them in the current setting, the idea for this system is modular, with a Core system followed by different settings that give a (hopefully) different feel between each. Currently we only have ideas for two settings, but if we do get around to using any of the suggested ideas, I'll certainly PM you and let you know. If anyone here is curious, I can give you the Core rules (or what I have so far) for you to peruse.