Cleric of Fharlanghn

[kinztastic]

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=185656 This is my flavorful, not-at-all optimized Cleric of Fharlanghn. I'm looking for two final feats. Possibly to make me less likely to flatout die. I'm not worried about being a fluff character, but I need to add a few more things that aren't just.... fluff. Two final feats due to flaws.

My campaign is not going to get me killed very easily.

[GilesTheCleric]

Wow, you have really good ability scores. Did you roll for those?

Domains look good. Skills look good. Your spell list will benefit if you go outside of core (see my sig for ideas), but it's fine as-is, too. What is the Far Horizons feat? I've never heard of that before. Is it Dragon material, perhaps?

If you pick up the 1st-level Ebon Eyes spell, your murky-eyed flaw is effectively negated. Plenty of cleric spells increase con and give temp hp, so frail is negated as well.

Anyway, in terms of feats: Metamagic is never bad to pick up, even still+silent (I'm a fan of DMM:Persist, but DMM:Twin, DMM: Echo, DMM:Repeat, DMM:anything can be good). If you like to blast stuff with spells for damage, Reserve Feats are a good way to go.

There's other [divine] feats in CC and CD that will give you something to do with your turns besides the Travel Domain power.

Edit: actually, picking up Power Attack might not be a bad idea. Once you hit 6, you can grab headlong rush/shock trooper (I forget which one moves the penalty to AC) if you want to really melee things. Otherwise, Zen Archery or Intuitive Attack are nice for hitting things, too.

[kinztastic]

Divine Metamagic is banned by my DM and every other player at the table XD. Forgot to mention that.

EDIT: Yes, I rolled for them. I also had the +1 to a score from leveling up.

EDIT 2: We're pretty much using Complete series books and Core. Psionics stuff is banned, DMM is banned. We can use other books, but they're pending approval. Which is how I got a lot of my other weird stuff.

[GilesTheCleric]

If Dragon is allowed, then consider the Initiate of Fharlanghn feat, Drag342 51. It's another +10 ft with no req, and puts Dimension Door on your spell list (4th level).

[kinztastic]

I plan on getting Initiate of Fharlanghn, but it's not till caster lvl 4, which is my next level. So would Twin Spell metamagic be a good idea? And which spells are you thinking I should switch?

[GilesTheCleric]

My clipping of the feat says 3rd level spells, which means it's available at level 6. Spell Level 4 is at 7; Caster level 4 is at 4. That's probably just a typo.

Your spell list can change depending on what you're planning on doing. Are you aiming for melee/dps, utility, BFC, blasting? In any case, swapping out Zone of Truth and Deific Vengeance for any other spell would help. What's your reason for having cat's grace? Just the AC/reflex save boost? Ring of Blades can be neat, and if you want to go in that direction, then picking up Stand Still, Improved Trip, or Thicket of Blades will improve its damage.

Twin spell is pretty expensive without reducers, so unless you've got a specific low-level spell to amp up in mind, it's probably not a good general-purpose pick-up. I'd stick to +1 or +2 MM without a specific reason/ spell you're comboing the MM with.

Edit: Only Completes and Core? No Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium?

[Troacctid]

I'd take the Spontaneous Domain Casting variant for the Travel domain. Having access to teleporty stuff more than just once a day will be great, and you don't need spontaneous curing anyway. Pick up a healing wand instead, and maybe prepare a Close Wounds or two for emergencies.

If you're looking to spend a feat on something to help you not die, you could try switching your race to Water Halfling. +2 Dex and small size is worth +2 AC, the +2 Con shores up your HP, and you get a racial luck bonus to saving throws in addition to the bump in Reflex and Fortitude from the ability score increases. Plus you get a swim speed, which helps you to not drown, in case that ever comes up.

[kinztastic]

I'm more interested in the actual roleplay aspect. Survivability is of course, important, but that's it. I'm more interested in surviving then anything. I primarily want to be a support role. My spells are there for defensive, utility uses (zone of truth, sanctuary, buffs, etc) and I can hit things with my stick if I need too/cast some damage, but for the most part right now I'm going to start off helping push plots forward and keeping people alive.

My character walks around in light armor for maneuverability, this might change in character if they get the crap beaten out of them, but with my party it shouldn't happen. She travels around as a cartographer, priest, and patron of Fharlanghn, on the journey for learning as the god wishes and for adventure. Hell, she doesn't even wear shoes for personal reasons. She's diplomatic and a stern person for the principles of her god, really only getting involved with the party for the journey.

She's not meant to be 'too' useful, yet. Her introduction is she's a loony cleric who's been kindly healing people of blindness and such things who the party will here about. She's replacing my extremely dangerous barbarian.


EDIT: Also, I dropped the flaws, so I'm not looking for feats anymore. But as she is now, is she survivable in a casual, story driven campaign? With little overpowered nonsense as you see in more 'traditional' and (to my honest opinion) bland adventures?

EDIT 2: My DM says she's fine. Which is good, because minmaxing to a water halfing would be stupid and unexplainable in our setting.

[Troacctid]

Don't underestimate teleportation as a survivability tool. There's nothing to get you out of a fight alive like not being in the fight anymore. It will save your bacon, I guarantee it. And you can bring your allies with you.

Also, spontaneous domain casting makes you less of a generic cookie-cutter Cleric. Big flavor win all around.

[GilesTheCleric]

I'm more interested in the actual roleplay aspect. Survivability is of course, important, but that's it. I'm more interested in surviving then anything. I primarily want to be a support role. My spells are there for defensive, utility uses (zone of truth, sanctuary, buffs, etc) and I can hit things with my stick if I need too/cast some damage, but for the most part right now I'm going to start off helping push plots forward and keeping people alive.

Optimization does not preclude rp.

Zone of truth is a spell that you'll know you'll need ahead of time if you're trying to take foes alive. If you think you might need it THAT DAY, it's probably much more efficient to buy a scroll (I'm a huge fan of scrolls; which reminds me, that's not a bad feat to pick up, along with any other item creation feat). When picking spells, think of it this way: "will I use this spell more than once every three days, if I have one day of combat, one day of rp/puzzles, and one day of skill challenges?" If the answer is no, then it's probably not worth a slot, and a scroll or preparing your spells specifically for the day will serve you better.

If you're aiming for utility and BFC, then I recommend dropping all of your direct damage spells, and instead prepare BFC and buffs. Giving your fighter an extra attack per round or your whole party +2 damage and to-hit for an entire fight is much more efficient than you running up to single foes for quarterstaff+blades damage.

Ice slick is one of the most powerful low-level cleric spells; it can replace sanctuary, or be used in conjunction. Again, I recommend going through the list in my signature, which is mostly non-damage spells (There's maybe 2 in all nine levels I recommended?), so they're all BFCs or rp-type spells that you'll probably like.

Edit: If you're aiming for a casual, rp-heavy game, then I recommend loading up on divinations. Circle Dance, Speak with Dead, the works. Circle of Truth is good, then, too. Yes, you're plenty survivable, though keeping an Obscuring Mist, Dimension Door, or Ice Slick on hand will almost guarantee it.

Also, if you GM is amenable to it, do try to get MIC and SC put on the approved books list. Those two are probably the best for adding a lot of options and (affordable) flavour to your character.

[kinztastic]

Optimization does preclude my RP when I constantly feel a lot of the optimization go against the character I want and ruin my immersion. I'll probably do better next time if I come up with a concept after I've designed the mechanics behind the character -first-. I have a hard time not having 3.5 break anything I want.

I'm incredibly uncompromising, so it's more a personal problem.

EDIT:I probably will take the obscuring mist. That and my speed + travel devotion's swift move thing helps me out pretty well. If we start dropping like flies, I can literally run away from almost anything we'll be fighting anytime soon. Pretty sure SC and MIC are by approval only, but he doesn't have issues with them. We just have a guy in the group who would abuse certain things.

[GilesTheCleric]

Optimization does preclude my RP when I constantly feel a lot of the optimization go against the character I want and ruin my immersion. I'll probably do better next time if I come up with a concept after I've designed the mechanics behind the character -first-. I have a hard time not having 3.5 break anything I want.
As you continue to play and gain system mastery, this problem will alleviate itself. When I build a character, my process is now one of two paths:

1: I see a cool mechanic, and figure out what kind of character would use such a thing, then build around the synergy.

2: I come up with a character, then find mechanics that exemplify the personality.

In both cases, I attempt to make fluff and mechanics unified. It sometimes takes a lot of work and time, but I enjoy it. Having limited book resources makes this much more difficult, however.


I'm incredibly uncompromising, so it's more a personal problem.

EDIT:I probably will take the obscuring mist. That and my speed + travel devotion's swift move thing helps me out pretty well. If we start dropping like flies, I can literally run away from almost anything we'll be fighting anytime soon.
Being uncompromising isn't a problem, it's a strength you can build around. If you really want a character a specific way and have the time to put in, your ability not to compromise can lead you to building something great. "> Don't give up!"

[kinztastic]

As you continue to play and gain system mastery, this problem will alleviate itself. When I build a character, my process is now one of two paths:

1: I see a cool mechanic, and figure out what kind of character would use such a thing, then build around the synergy.

2: I come up with a character, then find mechanics that exemplify the personality.

In both cases, I attempt to make fluff and mechanics unified. It sometimes takes a lot of work and time, but I enjoy it. Having limited book resources makes this much more difficult, however.


Being uncompromising isn't a problem, it's a strength you can build around. If you really want a character a specific way and have the time to put in, your ability not to compromise can lead you to building something great. "> Don't give up!"
See what I wanted was a character who would primarily be a light-armored cleric of Fharlanghn, but I couldn't use cloistered. Good at the skills she has, possibly lead into a skill monkey support spell person who often solved things in ways no one expected. For instance, sanctuary and then TALK to the murderous lunatic with the fact that they speak so many languages, as opposed to go full blown murder hobo on them. An eccentric person who loves travelling and goes around preaching Fharlanghn's word, and when the chips are down ,can also heal her friends and help travelers as well as be a diplomat between cities or traders or such.

I didn't want to be ranged, and I didn't want to take a dozen melee feats to be effective melee to 'survive'. Dex was my dump stat. This is what came up. If my character changes to survive, I want them to change IN character.

[GilesTheCleric]

It seems like preparing buff spells (combat, skills), and having other utility (obscuring mist) should accomplish everything you're after. For additional versatility, consider adding mundane/magical items to your repertoire, such as from Shax's Haversack, the Utility Belt, and Bunko's Bargain Basement at a low cost.

Solving problems creatively comes down to your skill as a player more than it does the abilities of your character. The most important thing to do is to keep your options open, and to have lots of them to facilitate this style.

[kinztastic]

It seems like preparing buff spells (combat, skills), and having other utility (obscuring mist) should accomplish everything you're after. For additional versatility, consider adding mundane/magical items to your repertoire, such as from Shax's Haversack, the Utility Belt, and Bunko's Bargain Basement at a low cost.

Solving problems creatively comes down to your skill as a player more than it does the abilities of your character. The most important thing to do is to keep your options open, and to have lots of them to facilitate this style.

We don't have access to a lot of magical items. DM is very particular about that. Especially since none of the cities/towns we've been too have sold any of real value yet. Plus with 9000 gold all I could really get was my armor and my nifty little things. Maybe some potions at this point.

And to say it doesn't count on your skills as a character is just straight up silly. Otherwise all your options rely on luck that you won't need to roll a skill or need a spell, stabbing your way through the problem, or paying someone.

[GilesTheCleric]

The MIC makes a lot of items available for very little. You have 1.7k in change on your sheet; that's enough for some Anklets of Translocation (MIC, 1.4k), a Healing Belt (MIC, 750gp), or a Wand of Lesser Vigour (SC, 750 gp).

I don't think we have the same definition of "creative solution", then. I understood it to mean using the resources you have with you or find in an unexpected fashion, McGuyver-style. To do that, all you need is lateral thinking and mundane items, though spells and magical items can substitute or improve many situations.

For example, in one game my party came across a wide river we had no way of getting across (no fly spells, and the water itself dealt a significant amount of cold damage). So, I looked at my sheet, and remembered my character had a cloak (a gift from a priest in a previous town whom we helped exorcise a demon-child). How did the party get across? I dipped my cloak into the river until it grew stiff and froze, in parts at a time shaping it into a small boat/raft. No spells, no skill checks (I could have made a craft (boat)? All I needed to do was make it bowl-shaped, probably an easy DC if the GM cared to make me roll), and we succeeded on the challenge. Even if we did need to roll, each other party member had a cloak, and we probably could have come up with a different solution if all five of our cloaks failed in their craft (boat) check.

If we were entirely stuck, maybe the GM would have taken pity on us and given us a straight-up in-character int check for some solution that he had come up with. But not all GMs do that.

Edit: Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412748-Help-deciding-on-starting-gold-for-character-creation-a-1-off-scenario) another recent thread with some item suggestions.

[kinztastic]

The MIC makes a lot of items available for very little. You have 1.7k in change on your sheet; that's enough for some Anklets of Translocation (MIC, 1.4k), a Healing Belt (MIC, 750gp), or a Wand of Lesser Vigour (SC, 750 gp).

I don't think we have the same definition of "creative solution", then. I understood it to mean using the resources you have with you or find in an unexpected fashion, McGuyver-style. To do that, all you need is lateral thinking and mundane items, though spells and magical items can substitute or improve many situations.

For example, in one game my party came across a wide river we had no way of getting across (no fly spells, and the water itself dealt a significant amount of cold damage). So, I looked at my sheet, and remembered my character had a cloak (a gift from a priest in a previous town whom we helped exorcise a demon-child). How did the party get across? I dipped my cloak into the river until it grew stiff and froze, in parts at a time shaping it into a small boat/raft. No spells, no skill checks (I could have made a craft (boat)? All I needed to do was make it bowl-shaped, probably an easy DC if the GM cared to make me roll), and we succeeded on the challenge. Even if we did need to roll, each other party member had a cloak, and we probably could have come up with a different solution if all five of our cloaks failed in their craft (boat) check.

If we were entirely stuck, maybe the GM would have taken pity on us and given us a straight-up in-character int check for some solution that he had come up with. But not all GMs do that.

Edit: Here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?412748-Help-deciding-on-starting-gold-for-character-creation-a-1-off-scenario) another recent thread with some item suggestions.

First of all, how did you make a craft boat if your skill wasn't already boatmaking? That's something our DM wouldn't let us do. Maybe crappy little dinky raft. Also, as said, we don't have access to a lot of magical items yet because most places we've been don't have them.

[Troacctid]

First of all, how did you make a craft boat if your skill wasn't already boatmaking? That's something our DM wouldn't let us do. Maybe crappy little dinky raft. Also, as said, we don't have access to a lot of magical items yet because most places we've been don't have them.

1. You can put ranks into any Craft skill you like. You don't have to choose one until you actually spend skill points on it, and you can train as many Craft skills as you want to. The same is true for Profession. I've seen players (like you) fill in the blank spot in their sheets anyway, without adding any skill ranks, but as far as the game is concerned, you can just leave it blank if you're not going to invest in it.
2. Craft checks, unlike Profession checks, can be made untrained. (Personally, I don't like that that's the case, as it seriously devalues the Craft skills--I'd prefer if untrained checks couldn't produce higher than a DC 10 result, like with Knowledges. But it's the default rule unless your DM actively changes it.)

[kinztastic]

1. You can put ranks into any Craft skill you like. You don't have to choose one until you actually spend skill points on it, and you can train as many Craft skills as you want to. The same is true for Profession. I've seen players (like you) fill in the blank spot in their sheets anyway, without adding any skill ranks, but as far as the game is concerned, you can just leave it blank if you're not going to invest in it.
2. Craft checks, unlike Profession checks, can be made untrained. (Personally, I don't like that that's the case, as it seriously devalues the Craft skills--I'd prefer if untrained checks couldn't produce higher than a DC 10 result, like with Knowledges. But it's the default rule unless your DM actively changes it.)

That honestly sounds stupid. I don't like that they can be untrained, nor that you can choose it later in game just to fit a situation.

Also Far Horizons is this:


Far Horizons


Prerequisite(s): Cleric level 1+

Benefit: Add Climb, Jump, and Swim to your class skills, you always know the direction of true north. In addition, you add the following spells to your domain list:
1st: Expeditious Retreat
3rd: Leomund's Tiny Hut
5th: Overland Flight
6th: Shadow Walk

[kinztastic]

Also I added in a flaw again, and I want to know: Twin Spell or Reach spell? Or something else?

http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=185656

[Troacctid]

Twin Spell seems underwhelming. Without Divine Metamagic, you can't actually use it until 9th level, and even then, it's not that great compared to just casting a higher-level spell out of that slot.

What about Craft Wondrous Item? It sounds like it would be great in your campaign, and it's a good feat for a support character, especially Clerics, who have a ton of relevant spells for crafting.


In addition, you add the following spells to your domain list:

It's actually better than that: you get them as ordinary Cleric spells, not domain spells, so you can prepare them in your normal, non-domain spell slots.

[kinztastic]

Twin Spell seems underwhelming. Without Divine Metamagic, you can't actually use it until 9th level, and even then, it's not that great compared to just casting a higher-level spell out of that slot.

What about Craft Wondrous Item? It sounds like it would be great in your campaign, and it's a good feat for a support character, especially Clerics, who have a ton of relevant spells for crafting.



It's actually better than that: you get them as ordinary Cleric spells, not domain spells, so you can prepare them in your normal, non-domain spell slots.

I meant spell list, but anyways, I don't want to get craft wondrous yet. DMs not responding and he already says all wondrous items must be passed through him first, so getting the ability to make them? Just seems underwhelming.

Also, I can use Twin spell instantly. Unless the feat I read is wrong.

[kinztastic]

Actually I'm looking at Book of Exalted Deeds Intuitive attack now. It just suits me so much better and then I can swap my strength and my dex :D

[Troacctid]

Also, I can use Twin spell instantly. Unless the feat I read is wrong.

A Twin Spell uses a spell slot four levels higher than normal. So a Twinned version of a 1st level spell would require a 5th level spell slot. Currently, you only have spell slots up to 3rd level, so you can't even Twin your orisons.

[kinztastic]

Twin Spell seems underwhelming. Without Divine Metamagic, you can't actually use it until 9th level, and even then, it's not that great compared to just casting a higher-level spell out of that slot.

What about Craft Wondrous Item? It sounds like it would be great in your campaign, and it's a good feat for a support character, especially Clerics, who have a ton of relevant spells for crafting.



It's actually better than that: you get them as ordinary Cleric spells, not domain spells, so you can prepare them in your normal, non-domain spell slots.

Maybe I should get scribe scroll?

[kinztastic]

Maybe I should get scribe scroll?

I took improved initiative. I also got the anklets of translocation with DM approval. Thanks guys, I'm done here.

[GilesTheCleric]

Congratulations! I'm glad to hear things worked out. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask. These boards act as a force multiplier for your own skill and knowledge, and that's incredibly powerful.

[kinztastic]

Congratulations! I'm glad to hear things worked out. If you have any other questions, don't hesitate to ask. These boards act as a force multiplier for your own skill and knowledge, and that's incredibly powerful.

I'm still relatively a novice. I tend to stick to groups that focus heavily on RP, and learn the mechanics as I go. This game I'm in is only like the 5th or 6th game I've ever been in. And most of the others were one offs. This one's a campaign.

[GilesTheCleric]

No worries. We've all been novices, some of us longer than others (I probably spent four years barely knowing how to play the game! It took me five years to learn that bonuses of the same type don't stack :smallredface:). You've already taken the initiative to look stuff up and ask the folks at the playground, so you'll probably learn quickly.

Dnd is a game that you can enjoy any way you like, so go for it and play it your way.

I do recommend adding a clause that you're not looking for high op when you post to these boards if that's not what you're looking for. Many of us default to PO (practical optimization) or otherwise high-powered choices when we make recommendations, and that's just the board culture. If you haven't already seen JaronK's tier list (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=658.0), that helps to inform a lot of the thinking; following RAW (rules as written) is a practical way of thinking that helps our suggestions to be as widely-applicable as possible.

If run into rules questions, the Simple RAW answers thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?389369-Simple-RAW-Thread-for-3-5-Score-and-Nine) is a good place to go for a quick answer.

[atemu1234]

Extend is useful for cleric buffs.