Weaponizing Diseases

[FocusWolf413]

I'm playing around with the idea of using disease to harm people if I'm forced to retreat from combat. How would I do this? Smear various nasty substances on my arrowheads?

I'm not willing to devote a lot of resources to this. If it's too complicated, it won't be worth it. I'm fourth level and playing Pathfinder.

[MyrPsychologist]

Ratfolk have an alchemist archetype based specifically around this.

Or if you can use 3.5 material there is the cancer mage.

[Ediwir]

Or, y'know, there's always the good old europe teaching us "if you're losing a siege, throw plague-infected people with catapults".
A bag of holding and a few telekinetic tricks should work just fine.

[Grod_The_Giant]

The trick is to get them to take effect fast enough to matter. Most diseases take a day or more to kick in, by which time the fight has typically long since been decided.

[atemu1234]

Ratfolk have an alchemist archetype based specifically around this.

Or if you can use 3.5 material there is the cancer mage.

3e, actually.

[Th3N3xtGuy]

I'm playing around with the idea of using disease to harm people if I'm forced to retreat from combat. How would I do this? Smear various nasty substances on my arrowheads?

I'm not willing to devote a lot of resources to this. If it's too complicated, it won't be worth it. I'm fourth level and playing Pathfinder.

Look cancer mage not saying take that class but maybe a spell from them you can use.

[Geddy2112]

Most deadly diseases are weapons in their own right, and once they are in their host will spread. Viruses don't survive long outside of the host but are nice and scary, while your tougher bacterial diseases like anthrax and TB are easier to care for. Pathfinder has rules for diseases and a list of fun things to choose from. Consult with your DM about how realistic you want them to get, as the save DC's are not insanely high and 1/2 saves cures things like malaria with ease. The spell cure disease will also make them less useful at later levels. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/diseases

For delivery, you can coat your blades/arrowpoints with the disease, use darts from a blowgun, hollow tubed arrows, a syringe spear or throw a flask by hand or flask thrower. Alternatively, become an antipaladin and walk around as a BSL4 laboratory. While antipaladins can contract diseases, they cannot suffer any negative effects so they serve as excellent hosts.

For a weapon that always causes disease, make something out of Viridium- you probably want to many any non arrows lose the fragile condition and make sure to keep it in lead.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/special-materials#TOC-Viridium

[Insanity-Pepper]

You just gave me a fantastic idea for an antagonist. An orc archer with an infected zombie head on a chain hanging from his waist. When so inclined, he jabs an arrow into the forehead/brain matter before firing and upon impact, roll a random disease.

[Extra Anchovies]

Look cancer mage not saying take that class but maybe a spell from them you can use.

Ironically enough, the cancer mage doesn't progress spellcasting or grant any new spells. They do get SLAs of Contagion, Poison, and Insect Plague, though.

[Spore]

The spell cure disease will also make them less useful at later levels. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/diseases

That's why diseases are not a probable combat mechanic for adventuring groups but for big battles, long sieges or city/stronghold simulation. The enemy may have some 5th level clerics. But is that REALLY enough to cure 500 soldiers lying down with the bubonic plague? With more spreading every day?

If there were some kind of spell that greatly accelerates a disease (like Accelerate Poison for Druids, Rangers and Wizards) then it would be worthwhile.


I'm not willing to devote a lot of resources to this. If it's too complicated, it won't be worth it. I'm fourth level and playing Pathfinder.

If you're an evil sneaky bastard then you could just catch some city rats and other vermin (not exclusively the insect kind) kill them and use their squishy bits for some "nasty random disease arrows".

[Psyren]

The trick is to get them to take effect fast enough to matter. Most diseases take a day or more to kick in, by which time the fight has typically long since been decided.

This; diseases generally suck when used by the PCs. Poisons suck too, but at least they take effect immediately, so they tend to suck less.

[FocusWolf413]

For delivery, you can coat your blades/arrowpoints with the disease, use darts from a blowgun, hollow tubed arrows, a syringe spear or throw a flask by hand or flask thrower. Alternatively, become an antipaladin and walk around as a BSL4 laboratory. While antipaladins can contract diseases, they cannot suffer any negative effects so they serve as excellent hosts.

For a weapon that always causes disease, make something out of Viridium- you probably want to many any non arrows lose the fragile condition and make sure to keep it in lead.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/special-materials#TOC-Viridium

I've wanted to play a soulknife for a while, so I don't really want to change my class, but one of my friends wanted to play a paladin. I'll run it by him. It might be a theme of the party.

I already have a few viridium crossbow bolts and a viridium dagger, but the save DC is honestly way too low to be useful at all. However, I thought of a fun way to take advantage of the daily save versus leprosy. I want to see if I can work something out with the DM to get a ring made out of viridium. Considering all it would take is patience and some kind of grinding tool to make, it shouldn't be too hard to get one. If there is a politician or someone I want to get out of the way, a viridium ring would be an excellent gift.

People usually get tetanus by getting cut with rusty, unsanitary objects. I'm going to make sure all of my crossbow bolts are a little rusty, considering it's one of the nastier diseases. I might also taint them with animal feces for filth fever.


You just gave me a fantastic idea for an antagonist. An orc archer with an infected zombie head on a chain hanging from his waist. When so inclined, he jabs an arrow into the forehead/brain matter before firing and upon impact, roll a random disease.

I'm so glad I gave someone an idea! It sounds great. Bonus points if he snipes people from afar.


That's why diseases are not a probable combat mechanic for adventuring groups but for big battles, long sieges or city/stronghold simulation. The enemy may have some 5th level clerics. But is that REALLY enough to cure 500 soldiers lying down with the bubonic plague? With more spreading every day?

If there were some kind of spell that greatly accelerates a disease (like Accelerate Poison for Druids, Rangers and Wizards) then it would be worthwhile.

If you're an evil sneaky bastard then you could just catch some city rats and other vermin (not exclusively the insect kind) kill them and use their squishy bits for some "nasty random disease arrows".

I was actually reading something on sieges when I got the idea. I don't think I will be laying siege to any cities, but I have wanted to invade/defend a city from attack since I saw the 13th warrior again.

[FocusWolf413]

I came up with a decent list of good injury-based diseases. I need to check if someone can get multiple diseases from one attack. I don't see why not, but the DM might not approve.


Filth Fever (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/diseases/filth-fever) has a low save, but easy to get a hold of. The damage is also pretty good.
Cholera (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/diseases/cholera)'s save is a little harder than FF and it does less damage, but it honestly isn't that different. This one is also easy to combine with FF for a double-whammy disease.
Malaria (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/diseases/malaria-jungle-fever) has a truly excellent save and damage, but I might have a problem giving it to people, considering it's given to people by mosquitoes. I might be able to add it to the smoothie of death, though.
Devil Chills (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/diseases/devil-chills) is just as good as Malaria, but I don't think I will be able to get a hold of it. Demon Fever (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/diseases/demon-fever), which is also good, presents me with the same problem.
The Bubonic Plague (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/diseases/bubonic-plague) is ruthless, effective, and it has a history behind it that makes it more terrifying, but I really don't want to use it. It's contractible via inhalation, which really ruins it for me. Dysentery is contractible via contact, so I don't want to use it either.
Tetanus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/afflictions/diseases/tetanus) has a decent save and has decent effects, so it will be my standby. I just need slightly rusty arrowheads for this.



I REALLY do not want to get the diseases I am giving people. I managed to get some Targath for a bonus to fort saves vs disease and I have an Auran Mask, but because I am a Soulknife, my fort saves are pretty low. I only have +7 against disease (1(level)+3(con)+1(trait)+2(targath)).

Sorry for the double post.

[LoyalPaladin]

Huh. Diseases can effect PCs? I've never noticed.


The trick is to get them to take effect fast enough to matter. Most diseases take a day or more to kick in, by which time the fight has typically long since been decided.
This is all too true. It'll be difficult to toss a can of ails at someone and get them to fall down and whither away.

[Hrugner]

A Stirge familiar would give you regular access to diseases of all sorts. Send him in ahead to infect pets, livestock, vermin and mounts. A cacodemon familiar could do this while invisible, but I think the single wisdom disease is less appealing than the host of possible diseases the stirge brings. You'd be dropping all the normal benefits of having an improved familiar for this though, so make sure the DM is on board with letting it be useful before trying this method.

Alternately you could make a blight druid and just get slapped around for awhile then run off. That's a bit more invested in disease than you want though.

[FocusWolf413]

A Stirge familiar would give you regular access to diseases of all sorts. Send him in ahead to infect pets, livestock, vermin and mounts. A cacodemon familiar could do this while invisible, but I think the single wisdom disease is less appealing than the host of possible diseases the stirge brings. You'd be dropping all the normal benefits of having an improved familiar for this though, so make sure the DM is on board with letting it be useful before trying this method.

Alternately you could make a blight druid and just get slapped around for awhile then run off. That's a bit more invested in disease than you want though.

I already said that I am set on playing a soulknife. I am not willing to change my class.
Taking the Obtain Familiar, that Improved Familiar, would be too much of a strain on my build. I already said that I do not want to devote a lot of resources to this.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Huh. Diseases can effect PCs? I've never noticed.

While you may be immune to the bacterium c. tetani, the symptoms are actually caused by a toxin secreted by the bacterium, which your paladin powers fail to protect you against.

Evil is nothing if not creative.

[Hrugner]

Sorry, I didn't see the later post with the selected class before posting. I think between a bad fort, no familiar, a primary weapon that can't be viridium and no ability to handle disease carrying animals, you're just going to get sick trying to use disease as a weapon. With only simple weapons I suppose you could use viridium crossbow bolts or sling stones, but waiting a month or two for leprosy to take hold seems a bit over the top.

Maybe if you kept caltrops in a wax sealed fish bowl full of feces and spoiled meat?

[FocusWolf413]

I carefully chose diseases that are injury based so I won't get sick if I don't get cut. Also, I have a +6 to heal checks (2 from wis, belt of healing, and mw item), so I shouldn't get sick on the off chance that I do cut myself with my own weapons.

This was never going to be my primary method of attack. It's more of a fun thought exercise to add onto a decent character. Because we're low level, retreat is always going to be a good option when confronted with combat. However, I don't like the idea of enemies REALLY winning when they force me to retreat. It's also a small measure of insurance against recurring enemies.

[Milo v3]

The latest PF book Pathfinder Unchained has alternate rules for diseases that make them more serious if someone in your group has access to the book.