PDA

View Full Version : Player Help First Level Wizard - Focus on Scrolls?



unseenmage
2015-05-07, 11:10 AM
Building a first level character for the first time in a long time. Also building a wizard for the first time in a long time. Could use some help making an effective first level character from rolled stats and a randomly chosen race (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?401132-Lists-of-Every-Playable-Monster-by-ECL).
have until the 13th to have this character ready for approval.

Game is 3.0/3.5, "up to 2 flaws from Unearthed Arcana only, Traits on approval only, No LA BuyBack, Max HP at 1st level".
Was considering making a character focused on scrolls. Was also looking into the Apprentice/Mentor feats from DMG2.

Stats were rolled and got 9, 12, 15, 17, 10, and 15.
Race is Hengeyokai, Dog (Dragon #318 pg34 (new LA), Oriental Adventures 10) 1 HD, +0 LA, humanoid (shapchanger) and reference to the LA being removed. More details on the Hengyokai spoilered below.

Hybrid form: Con+2, +4 survival when tracking by scent. Hengeyokai in hybrid form retain their low-light vision and the ability to communicate with animals of their type.

Dog form: Small, Speed40ft., AC14(+1 size +3 Dex), Bite1d4+1, Str13 Dex17 Con15; In animal form, a hengeyokai is effectively disguised as an animal, gaining a +10 bonus on Disguise checks while in this form. In animal form, the hengeyokai has low-light vision and the supernatural ability to communicate with other animals of its kind. This is the same as a familiar’s ability to speak with animals of its type.

From Dragon #318:
Hengeyokai: Hengeyokai are now crearures of the humanoid (shapechanger) type, rather man creatures of the obsolete shapechanger type. Remove their level adjustment.

Flickerdart
2015-05-07, 11:15 AM
You're not going to be doing much scroll use as a level 1 wizard.

Why not an artificer? They get the whole crafting thing together much better.

unseenmage
2015-05-07, 11:22 AM
You're not going to be doing much scroll use as a level 1 wizard.

Why not an artificer? They get the whole crafting thing together much better.

Because I always play an artificer. And I hadn't used a wizard in a long while. And I had no clue at what level or modifiers scrolls became more useful than not.


Mostly just trying to find a niche to aim for.

Rubik
2015-05-07, 11:30 AM
If you take Precocious Apprentice for a level 2 spell that is only barely affected by CL, you can go for the Forceful Magic and Sanctum Spell feats to reduce its spell level by 2, then craft a bunch of level 0 scrolls of your level 2 spell. Note that you can craft a single scroll with multiple spells on it, and no matter how many spells are on it, it only takes one day to create if it's 1,000 gp or under.

Ray of Stupidity is great if you're dealing with animals. It can one-shot even epic-level creatures of the animal type, as well as most things with Int in the 1-2 range. Of course, it's not so hot against everything else, so maybe you should find a more all-purpose spell for this.

jiriku
2015-05-07, 12:06 PM
There is a scroll handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=684.0). Good place to start.

You can't go wrong with Str 9, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 12. With your racial Con bonus, you'll have 17 Con, and excellent saving throws across the board for a 1st-level character. Ask your DM if he allows retraining. If he does, I strongly recommend taking Toughness at 1st level, then retraining it to another feat once you get to 3rd level. Mechanically, flaws are a pretty good deal since a good feat offers more benefit than a carefully chosen flaw.

Does your dog form actually gain the scent ability? If so, you'll make a decent bloodhound. If not, your dog form's chief use will be as a disguise. Ask your DM if Natural Spell or a similar homebrewed feat would be available to allow you to cast spell while in dog form.

atemu1234
2015-05-07, 12:15 PM
There is a scroll handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=684.0). Good place to start.

You can't go wrong with Str 9, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 12. With your racial Con bonus, you'll have 17 Con, and excellent saving throws across the board for a 1st-level character. Ask your DM if he allows retraining. If he does, I strongly recommend taking Toughness at 1st level, then retraining it to another feat once you get to 3rd level. Mechanically, flaws are a pretty good deal since a good feat offers more benefit than a carefully chosen flaw.

Does your dog form actually gain the scent ability? If so, you'll make a decent bloodhound. If not, your dog form's chief use will be as a disguise. Ask your DM if Natural Spell or a similar homebrewed feat would be available to allow you to cast spell while in dog form.

Why Charisma over strength?

jiriku
2015-05-07, 12:20 PM
Opposed Charisma checks are useful for pressuring charmed creatures and binding outsiders. Also, wizards can actually be pretty solid negotiators with only one or two appropriate low-level buff spells. Strength, on the other hand, is only useful for carrying things and doing athletic stuff. Wizards typically have spells and minor magic items that entirely eliminate the need for those tasks. Also, the character in question has an alternate form with a fixed Str of 13 available.

Rubik
2015-05-07, 12:47 PM
You can't go wrong with Str 9, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 12.Disagreed, thoroughly.

Int aside (since he's a wizard and will be focusing on that), odd ability scores suck, because that extra point is useless. Take 1 off of Dex, 1 from Con, and 1 from Wis, and send them elsewhere -- either to Cha for better Charming and Binding, or to Str so he doesn't have to worry about his carrying capacity. Or he could pump Dex or Con up to 16.

jiriku
2015-05-07, 12:48 PM
Disagreed, thoroughly.

Int aside (since he's a wizard and will be focusing on that), odd ability scores suck, because that extra point is useless. Take 1 off of Dex, 1 from Con, and 1 from Wis, and send them elsewhere -- either to Cha for better Charming and Binding, or to Str so he doesn't have to worry about his carrying capacity. Or he could pump Dex or Con up to 16.

The stats were rolled.

Rubik
2015-05-07, 12:51 PM
The stats were rolled.I'd suggest starting at a higher age category.

jiriku
2015-05-07, 12:56 PM
I'd suggest starting at a higher age category.

A usable suggestion, if permitted.

unseenmage
2015-05-07, 06:19 PM
The Precocious Apprentice idea seems a bit cheesey so I'm not sure it'll fly.
Thanks for the scroll handbook link.
Don't know yet if retraining is allowed.
Unsure about the Scent ability. But the RAI would seem to obviously be that the character has it in animal form otherwise how would it track by scent if it didn't get scent?
Not sure about starting at the higher age category. Especially if I intend to work in the Apprentice/Mentor feats eventually. Crunch-wise I know it works. Flavor seems off though.

dextercorvia
2015-05-07, 08:58 PM
Magical Artisan lets you make a specific kind of item for 75% of the price. Since you explicitly round down in D&D, this means you can make level 1 scrolls for 0 XP. Useful when you are just starting out.

Edit: I think this is for a game I've applied for. If we are both accepted, I'll gladly let you make scrolls of anything I know. I took Collegiate Wizard, so that should give you an idea of the number of spells I have available.

unseenmage
2015-05-09, 09:05 AM
Any ideas as to what would make the best Familiar for a wizard focused on scrolls?
Dedicated Wright seems like the obvious answer. I wonder if there's a better alternative in all of Familiar-dom fluffwise though.

ZamielVanWeber
2015-05-09, 09:09 AM
Does your dog form actually gain the scent ability? If so, you'll make a decent bloodhound. If not, your dog form's chief use will be as a disguise. Ask your DM if Natural Spell or a similar homebrewed feat would be available to allow you to cast spell while in dog form.

I believe Savage Species's Surrogate Spellcasting has this covered. You still need to be able to hold material components, but it gives a lot of leeway for verbal and somatic.

dextercorvia
2015-05-09, 09:09 AM
Probably an Imp or Mephit, which can actually use the scrolls you create. A Quill of Scribing can help with the making, just fine.

ericgrau
2015-05-09, 05:07 PM
Int 17
Con 15+2=17
Dex 15
Wis 12
Str/Cha whichever

Pick decent spells. Sleep, color spray, or whatever. There are a billion threads on this.

Ok on to scrolls. Scrolls benefit from variety so you may want to be a generalist. Or a diviner so you only have to ban 1 school (enchantment btw). Divinations tend to make good utility spells for scrolls and then you'd also prepare the minimum of 1 divination, and the rest as combat spells, unless you want more divinations for some purpose.

You want to scribe utility and buff scrolls. If you don't have a lot of downtime then don't be afraid to buy scrolls too. At 12.5 gp a day you aren't exactly saving a huge amount of money. Or a RAW legal trick is to scribe multiple spells onto the same scrolls so that you can scribe more in one day, up to 1,000 gp worth, with the only drawback being organizational problems. 3 is probably a safe limit without causing questions on how you are able to find the right spell, or you could put duplicates onto the same scroll and then it doesn't matter which spell you unroll to. Still not much money saved though.

Eventually you'll want every utility spell you can find in the PHB, spell compendium and elsewhere if you have time to search. Especially the cheap level 1 and 2 spells. For the ones you scribe from your spellbook you want to pick the more expensive spells meaning the level 2 spells, maybe level 3 later, plus the high caster level level 1 spells: tenser's floating disk, summoner monster I.

At level 1 your budget is limited so you can only get 1-2 scrolls, maybe 2-4 if you put the spells in your spellbook and get a day to scribe asap. The best bang for your buck might be unseen servant or silent image. Even though the save DC is low on silent image, if your foe doesn't interact with or examine the illusion he doesn't get a save. Talk with your DM about what counts as interacting with first to make sure he isn't too strict and ends up saying the foe is always interacting with it. In a couple levels you'll want to pick up almost all the utility spells. Heck maybe some nerveskitters too, whether or not you also prepare that spell. It's too good and doesn't rely on CL or save DC unlike other spells you might want to prepare rather than scroll. Good spell to make multiple copies of on the same scroll when scribing. At 12.5 gp a pop don't hesitate to nerveskitter every fight starting at level 2. Shock and awe is a similar but more situational spell to get, which makes it great on scrolls except that you'll carry fewer copies.


Probably an Imp or Mephit, which can actually use the scrolls you create. A Quill of Scribing can help with the making, just fine.
Could be great for twice the nerveskitter. Even if he doesn't pass all his UMD checks he can help at least part of the time, and even if he rolls so low he can't use 1 scroll for 24 hours, he can try another. There are full casting prestige classes such as loremaster that give UMD as a class skill so he can get more ranks.