Questions about Dragonborn

[Spectre9000]

So I'm looking at Dragonborn and they look kinda cool. They can be any non-evil, which suits me, and they become dragons (RotD 8). Plus they get +2 Constitution which will help with a Gish character I'm trying to make. I can also gain wings, which is pretty awesome and useful.


I primarily have two questions:

1) Are Dragonborn able to be considered "True Dragons"?

For all effects related to race, a dragonborn is considered a dragon

Does this mean a "True Dragon" however?


2) Can Neraphim (Planar Handbook Page 12) become Dragonborn and do they retain their Weapon Proficiencies?
Neraph are Outsiders, but it says Dragonborn are Humanoid.

Humanoid (dragonblood): Dragonborn are humanoids with the dragonblood subtype and any other subtypes they had before undergoing the Rite of Rebirth.


Type, Subtype, and Race: You retain your original type and subtypes, gaining the dragonblood subtype. You still count as a member of your original race for the purpose of any effect or prerequisite that depends on race.


According the snippet from the Mechanics of Rebirth, I retain my original type (Outsider), and gain the subtype Dragonblood. So am I a Humanoid Outsider Dragon? Do I keep my Weapon Proficiencies?

[Red Fel]

I primarily have two questions:

1) Are Dragonborn able to be considered "True Dragons"?

No. Dragonborn gain the Dragonblood subtype, which allows them to be considered Dragons for certain purposes and effects. However, they do not gain the Dragon type, which is at the very least a necessary requirement for something to be a True Dragon.


2) Can Neraphim (Planar Handbook Page 12) become Dragonborn and do they retain their Weapon Proficiencies?

Can they become Dragonborn? Yes. Anything that is non-Evil and has the requisite Int score can become Dragonborn.

What you point to - the fact that Dragonborn are considered Humanoid - has caused some debate, inasmuch as another source in the same book suggests that they retain their existing type. In either case, however, nothing requires them to start as Humanoid. Neraphim, or any other non-Evil Outsider, can become Dragonborn.

Do they retain weapon proficiencies, however? Probably not. The Mechanics of Rebirth sidebar (p. 10) lists explicitly and exclusively what a Dragonborn retains; proficiencies are not on that list. One could make the argument that, if they retain the Outsider type, they retain Outsider traits, which would include weapon proficiencies. But as mentioned, it's debated as to whether you retain your type (the sidebar on p. 10 says that you do, but the text of p. 8 says that you become Humanoid).


According the snippet from the Mechanics of Rebirth, I retain my original type (Outsider), and gain the subtype Dragonblood. So am I a Humanoid Outsider Dragon?

This is completely wrong. You have only one type. Humanoid, Outsider, and Dragon are all types. You are either a Humanoid (Dragonblood), or an Outsider (Dragonblood), depending on which reading you go by (sidebar or text).

[Spectre9000]

No. Dragonborn gain the Dragonblood subtype, which allows them to be considered Dragons for certain purposes and effects. However, they do not gain the Dragon type, which is at the very least a necessary requirement for something to be a True Dragon.

Well, do one of those purposes or effects including being able to contract Spellhoarding (Dragon Magazine #313)?

[Red Fel]

Well, do one of those purposes or effects including being able to contract Spellhoarding (Dragon Magazine #313)?

No. There's a difference between being a Dragon and being a True Dragon.

Being a Dragon means having the Dragon type. That's it. And it's easy to get. There are plenty of monsters with the Dragon type. You could also become Dragonborn, or take the Dragontouched feat, or choose a Dragonblood race, to gain the Dragonblood subtype, which allows you to count as having the Dragon type.

But that's not a True Dragon. True Dragons are a subset of Dragons. By way of comparison, a Dragonnel is a Dragon, a Gold Dragon is a True Dragon. There is some confusion, but here is what we know. Monster Manual: Certain Dragons are explicitly defined as True Dragons. These are the metallic and chromatic dragons (e.g. Gold Dragon, Red Dragon). They are explicitly True Dragons. Draconomicon: A Dragon that "advances through age categories" is a True Dragon. Races of the Dragon: Gives a list which it claims supersedes all prior sources, including Draconomicon. It asserts that this list is a comprehensive and complete list of True Dragons. Thus, anything not on the list isn't a True Dragon.
This has caused some debate. (See e.g. Dragonwrought Kobolds.) But the point is that, even assuming the most permissive definition of the three (Draconomicon, any Dragon that advances through age categories), your average Dragonborn is not a True Dragon. Your average Dragonborn is does not possess the Dragon type, and does not advance through age categories. While it can be treated as though it has the Dragon type for certain purposes, this is insufficient to be considered a True Dragon.

Spellhoarding, like other Dragon Psychoses, can only be applied to a True Dragon. A Dragonborn cannot have Spellhoarding.