View Full Version : Brainstorming Building an India-themed setting
EisenKreutzer
2015-05-07, 03:41 PM
If you were to build an India-themed setting, how would you go about it? Which elements would be important to you to include?
I have an area of my China-inspired setting that is supposed to mirror Ancient India. It is called the Animal Kingdoms and is inhabited by anthropomorphic animals (monkey men, snake people, catfolk etc.). Beyond that, I have no idea where to begin.
So, how would yous India-themed campaign setting look?
If you want to get really close to the source, I would recommend getting an English translation of the Ramayana, which is a bit similar to the Illiad and Odysse for the Greeks. It has a reputation to be huge, but these days there are plenty of fantasy novels that are even bigger. And often part of a six to ten book series, so it shouldn't be too much of a challenge. It has Rama and Hanuman fighting Ravana and his rakshasa warriors, and lots of other classic indian mythological stuff.
One very interesting thing about those stories is that many of the heroes are demigods are actual gods and accordingly are incredibly powerful. And so are their enemies. In an "ancient India" setting things could be very down to earth, but in a "Mythic India" setting I would go really high power. Something like Exalted.
sktarq
2015-05-07, 09:06 PM
First off is how do you want to tell stories involving this region and how much do you want to play of the fascinating and hugely varied history of the subcontinent vs the idea of what people have in their head for what "India" means?
One thing to remember is that one of the biggest issues India has had from a developmental point of view had been that it has a stronger tendency to remain fractured and able to resist the movement of ideas, inventions etc. If China showed the problems and benifits of massive centralization and unification of a large area, India shows the opposite. Even at its most basic the two things to remember are that the South pretty much never unified and pretty much never fell to outsiders-which is weird as hell on the grand scale of history. And secondly the subcontinent was only even remotely unified twice in history-by Asoka 304–232 BCE and not again until the Brit cobbled together vassal princes, direct control, and allies to form the British Raj. The subcontinent is big places with Deserts (like the Thal-with its amazing Osais Cities and fortresses) to Giant swamps (The whole of Bangledesh (ignoring the Chittikong Hills and their independence movement) or the Sunderbands, or even the floodprone Assam Basin) Mountains-Yeah Well there are plenty of those in the North(really too many sections, subsection etc to list), the South (the Ghats mainly but also large upland regions), The East where India bleeds into Myanmar/Burma in a mess of Smaller people who Identify locally more with any Nation and have histories of insurgencies and the like. Also massive plains (see the Elephant grass plains for a really nifty, semi-iconic enviroment that feels very different from what people expect.
Secondly - those little states that make up the "also's" in the history of India can be extremely interesting. Im pretty sure someone saw a few picks of one's ancient temples (in Kerala I think) and set off a chain that led to the Yuan Ti. You can very much Delve into the southern Kingdoms or the Eastern ones (Assam and the Seven Sisters States today) for lots of ideas that still fit very well with India (as they had to deal with and were part of the world of the bigger "India" stuff people usually think of drawing from) but are new and fresh to most people and have room for twists.
Thirdly The whole area is a massive crossroads/tar trap-Huge numbers of invading forces have come in, especially into the Ganges Plain and then settled. In part because there are not really that many easy access points into the region. The 1800's Brits being able to hold the Khyber Pass and being able to lock in Trincomalee and Bombay/Mumbai as Naval Bases (because Typhoons are major issue and portages that allow one to really project naval power are limited) really did allow them to leverage power.
So what do I recommend? Figure out a few classical elements-many gods, an overlapping caste system, highly varied territory in a region that is mostly blocked off but sits of trade routes and has has access to things other want to trade for....And then start reading a couple books on the place. New, Old, about very old whatever-all can be mined for interesting ideas. There is a region in the NE where huge regions of the surrounding bamboo forest blooms, fruits on an approx 35 year cycle - and this region active fruiting moves over a couple year around the region and then goes quiet for a generation-which would be only be kind of neat except that this fruiting leads to plague of rats every time which leads to huge available fruit for people too followed by a predictable famine...Which could be a neat setting for adventures.
With the caste system-it can get touchy but if the castes are filled with different species you may be able to avoid the "ick" factor that alot of western, modern people have with the ideas of roles life etc. But still be mindful that it is supposed to be a fun game. Also in places castes could be VERY specific-as in not just fishermen but subdivided into fishing methods or types of fish for example.
Also remember that India is the birthplace of both Hinduism and Buddhism plus has major links to Islam, Zoroastrianism, Other Pagan Gods that have zip to do Hinduism, and whole societal system for yogis and other wise men to act as spiritual leaders. If you want a place to start that feels Indian but not a direct rip-look at the Ramayana and look up a the way the yogi's fit into society as those two will help sell the feel of India and also provide you with ideas for everything from subnations histories to ideas on how to make plot hooks that wouldn't be found in the same way elsewhere.
Also India has a large stock of "exotic" weapons to draw from in creating various game elements. Having these not be exotic in their homeland may be a thing. But piercing greatswords, Pata, and several weapons (along with numerals and other tech-including damascus/wootz steel) that are oft considered Islamic or middle eastern are Indian in origin and can be readily found in the basic books for stats etc.
Also for classic India that I'd recommend keeping-It was massively dominant in both the Spice Trade and the Gem trade for millennia (others too but those were the big famous ones) and the cash from this was part of why small nations could hold out-if not identical the small high value cargoes would still be a huge pull for outsiders...which creates the desire and "magic" of the land far away. Also India was for a long time where people went to get good from SE Asia and some Chinese items (depending on the state of the Silkroad system) so if your analog has trade routes that extend beyond where the central setting "homeland" regularly trades with it may help. . .
hmmm.... If I think of anything else I'll come back and add it.
EisenKreutzer
2015-05-07, 10:24 PM
Thank you! You have just given me enough tips, pointers and material to get me started and then some!
I can really feel this part of my world coming to life, I can't wait to start doing some research and get to creating this place!
CinuzIta
2015-05-09, 03:51 AM
You could also take a look at this if you haven't already seen it:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?281263-Let-s-Build-an-Indian-Mythology-Style-Setting
Altair_the_Vexed
2015-05-09, 05:35 AM
There was a web enhancement for D&D 3rd Ed's Oriental Adventures - an alternate setting, based on a fantasy of India / Indochina / Indonesia.
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20011019a
sktarq
2015-05-09, 07:43 PM
One thing I thought I should bring up-about using inspiration of real world cultures. A couple of years back someone was working on and African inspired setting and I ended up going off about how to use and not use real world cultures in my experience so I thought I'd put it up here as a view of how you could approach the various historical nations of the Indian subcontinent. - This uses various ideas started by the OP as starting points assumed to be known in the threads -no asking why a pygmy/jungle elf link is already taken as assumed it is because it is farther up the thread stuff.
" Right, The age old issues of dropping a RW culture into game versus re-skinned or inspired by cultures.
There is an art to it but I find re-skinning/inspired by is VERY useful. The real kicker is to get beyond the stereotypes and famous images of a culture. Use the original social structures, crops, building design and clothes patterns, these parts of a culture work well in translation. Take cultural cues that are not part of the main iconography of a culture and expand them.
If a culture (like the Maya say) thinks that newer palaces and temples are more impressive than old ones - push that - have the rich families be putting up large new houses every couple generations leaving the previous ones to be subdivided by the poorer-social class would be seen not by how big ones house is but by how old it is and how much square footage per person your family has. And from the outside a visiting adventurer has lines and lines huge mansions to see and while the new ones hold a few people and are richly decorated the slums are turned into a warren of tightly packed hovels and are crumbling under their age.
Finding images to replace the famous ones of the culture you are ripping from that are thematically similar. It is hard to get a feel of a place you want like that of a given culture if you don’t use that culture as a model. For an example of major image substitution I did an Egypt re-skinning.
When people think of Egypt they think of Pyramids, Mummies, and Deserts. Really Egypt was about the Flood of the Nile and the Humid, Swampy valley floor and delta as much as the desert so I got to thinking about floods. That got me thinking of the Amazon rainforest and how large parts of it flood in a similar cycle to the Nile. Mummification is about preservation – deserts help that but swamps go exactly the opposite-so a cultural obsession with preservation still works well. So I dropped Egypt into Flooding forest/swamp type environment. Put in some ridge-line systems for a good source of stone and dry cities. Then added New Orleans style graveyards for more Necropolis adventuring. I pulled most of my imagery and ideas from Lower Egypt delta works and a bit from the Iraqi swamp Arabs of the 1920’s (who have some decent cultural write ups and a very ancient lifestyle). I also replaced the pyramids with spirals spires-Tower of Babylon or Spiral Minaret style. Done few people spotted the Egyptian flavor but loved the detail in everything from food to tools to monsters. The only person you spotted it unaided has a BA in archeology.
I’m not saying you should use the above but I’m pointing it out as an example of how such a thing can work. In a less popularly known culture less extreme methods than a climatic shift work just fine. But Egypt is very iconic.
Also names-don’t use the real names of things.
A couple examples from the stuff I mentioned earlier- a list of cultural traits and whatnot that will avoid the – oh we are in “blank” culture now
For example Jungle elves rooted in Pygmies since you see it as a trope – Note Pygmy culture not genetics
Three main groups (A,B, & M for now)-traits specific to one major trial complex marked with that letter ones without apply to all
Very musical – group singing common and very few instruments used but accapella like voice patterns common and very advanced (I hear a beatboxing bard)
Primary hunting tools are nets, spear and bow
M-See the forest as Mother or Father figure-individual animals and plants as extensions of a larger whole. In times of distress (death in the village, war, etc) the Jungle must be woken to protect its children the elves. To wake the jungle song, dance and ritual are used
A-Very animist in its traditions with all the various animals and plants having spirits
Linguistically “Dead” just means very sick which is confusing for outsiders who see the local tern “Dead-for-ever” as death outside the jungle. (technically this is obsolete but has fun connotations and could be built on in magic ideas)
Cultural norm of placing bare feet together to speak to each other-or in a circle for group discussions.
Cultural Norm of if one notices elves sneaking around or approaching stealthily it is rude to let anyone know you have spotted one and it is proper to act surprised when they reveal themselves-only true out in the jungle.
Honey Collection important part of culture-both for food, ritual, and a mainstay of elven stories and songs
Very strong Oral history (All but A in particular)
Sister trading common (where a brother/ sister pair from one family will marry a 2nd brother/sister pair from another)
M-only hunts smaller creatures and largely eats Crabs, snails, insect larva, ants, hibiscus, amaranth root , wild yams, berries, a few leaves, honey,. That said this diet is very rich in protein (twice normal beefsteak per ounce) and they healthy from it
B- Hunts more than the others-including the Giant Forest Hog-But refuses to eat said hog as it is taboo to eat either pigs or rats in the culture. It is however valued for trade purposes.
B-Uses crushed poisonous plants for fishing purposes
A-extremely tight marriage and family bonds. The couple does almost everything together for the rest of their lives with almost no gender division of labor. This leads fathers being closer to children than in almost any other culture. Also means that adventurers who think they are fighting one almost always are surprised by the second one.
M-each family has a traditional hunting/foraging ground which are loosely enforced and amount to an entrance to the jungle as much as anything-and in the dry season spread out radially from their main camps toward their own hunting grounds.
Btb M is Mbuti, A is Aka, & B is Baka in the pygmy world.
The Dangerously iconic Maasai Tribes – very vulnerable to fantasy Maasi cultural norm.
What to keep
Warrior/Pastorialists.
Thornbrush walls to semi-permanent camps
Herd cattle and goats.
Animals as wealth
Series of cultural roles over the coarse of life within the community based on age
Age set based culture (in which people are born to a block of people around the same age-that block or generation goes through various rite of passage and age based roles together as group. Very tight socialization as well)
Not allowed to marry until quite late (men) marry very early (women)
Use body modification for rite of passage rituals
Monotheistic (or at least only worships one divinity) who granted the people the rite to all livestock-thus the priest drive cattle rustling
Have a strong tradition of all males being warriors,
Diet of meat, milk and blood all raw. Use a few plants for soups as medicine or flavoring
Let hair grow long between rights of passage or renewal times and shave it off at times of births, marriage, inheritance, granting of leadership, or rites of passage
Intricate jewelry
Use body modification for beauty as well as
Young men socially exiled to edge of community except for meals and rituals-where they are encouraged to raid surrounding peoples.
What to change
Change red tartans for other bright colour – like sky/electric blue.
Change traditional spear and throwing club to javelin and mace for example.
Change iconic bouncing dance to something else-like leaping backwards and forwards even-just that will throw your budding Anthropologists with a name change or two. Or to moonwalking and sliding for a different feel.
How about have weapons made from the cattle’s giant horns? Or from some beast who an age set is supposed to take down before graduating to full adulthood
Change them to a non-human race if still too recognizable
The easy to overplay Hobgoblin “Carthage”
Former Colony of the Goblin tribes of the islands that match up to what would one day be Europe on your map
Still dominates trade with such goblin islands which gives it access to the by far largest sources of tin in the world for bronze.
Other island goods like Amber (sub any rare semiprecious stone) and many Furs unique to its ports
Has formal auctions for market goods-invented the practice actually
Drinks wine when grapes otherwise don’t grow on the continent (sub other unique drink like plum wine or cider if you want)
Will make harbours for ships by adding seawalls or flooding depressions-thus keeping ships safe in storms that wreck other nations ships.
Founded by exiled queen
Is basically and Oligarcal republic (post 483 BC in RW)
Have constitution to oversee the ruling generals by a council of elders
Use cigar shaped ceramic jars for trading liquids
Special priest caste with different facial hair than most of the population (were clean shaven but could easily reverse this here)
While in reality child sacrifice is questionable it was highly popular to say it was popular by Carthagean rivals – in a fantasy world it could have been part of their way of life.
keep them kind of dirty-the Carthageans had a reputation around the med as semi barbarians and that they would trade with anyone. In reality mostly a non Greek prejudice but if they are Non-Human here it plays well.
what to not do
no togas
keep them part of the goblinoid world-just far more refined
no "legions" with banded armor and square shields
But the real thing about all the above is that they are not done yet. - Now you take the bones from the RW like above and brainstorm. How do they deal with dragons? How does a non literate society deal with wizards? What about Druids? Bards? or even when the Gods are real would Shakea Zulu react when the wise told him it was him who had spread blood all over the inside of his hut? The slow acting poisons the Bushmen use to take down Elands (the largest antelope in Africa) could it be adapted for even larger beast alive 5mya? and would they still sing songs and chant for hours it takes their prey to die? So it is a start-because working from whole cloth it is easier to fall into tropes actually), and inspiration, and polish. "
the original thread
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?313999-Shaba-High-Fantasy-in-Bronze-Age-Africa
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