About Roy

[EvilElitest]

A lot of people seem to dislike Roy for some reason, even prefering him to miko, now i always was confused about that.
Why so, he is the most logical characeter in the cast, and far more appealing than some
from,
EE
Edit:
On if you like Roy, please state why, if you hate him state why. If you just don't like him, or he isn't your favorite character then that is your option.

[jindra34]

A lot of people seem to dislike Roy for some reason, even prefering him to miko, now i always was confused about that.
Why so, he is the most logical characeter in the cast, and far more appealing than some
from,
EE

He's to Logical... to strict... he's i don't know kinda off...

[Shott]

Eh, I've always thought Roy was a great character. He's got a good head on his shoulders, good jokes, he's become a good leader, and he can be a badass when needed. What's not to like?

[Assassinfox]

He's too grumpy. :roy:

[Grasilich]

Well, I've found that generally Miko fans tend to side with Miko over anyone else. It's like Snape fans or Spike (from Buffy) fans or the like.

Roy I think gets a lot of flack I think because he isn't just a perfect dashing hero who always does the right thing at the right time for the right reasons. I like him just fine personally, flaws and all, but some people just get turned off by that I suppose.

[ocato]

I like Roy, because he has a lot of stuff to put up with and does so with remarkable restraint. I mean, I probably would've smacked the hell out of Elan about 250 strips ago. I like Elan from this perspective, but from his... It'd be about Murder O'Clock.

[EvilElitest]

Well, I've found that generally Miko fans tend to side with Miko over anyone else. It's like Snape fans or Spike (from Buffy) fans or the like.

Roy I think gets a lot of flack I think because he isn't just a perfect dashing hero who always does the right thing at the right time for the right reasons. I like him just fine personally, flaws and all, but some people just get turned off by that I suppose.

I like snap though

But i see your point, Roy seems to be hated when he spoke out against Miko
from,
EE

[NeonRonin]

I like Roy because I can empathize with him- i.e. having to deal with morons, while at the same time having to put up a veneer of self-control. There are a lot of times I would prefer to lash out at what's bugging me, but I know I shouldn't, so I save it up for when I get home and exercise with my punching bag. So I say, give Roy a break- he's doing the best he can with what life handed him. Just like a lot of us do every day.

[Vladimir]

He's really not even all that grouchy. Just sleep deprived.

[cavalier973]

Roy is likeable because he's the main guy; he's strong but not invincible.
He has vulnerabilities and doubts about what course of action to take.
While he's Lawful Good, he doesn't let his alignment do his thinking for him,
like Miko does (not for very long, anyway).

What's probably most important, he sticks by his team (even Belkar, who wants to kill Roy).

I'm wondering, if Roy decides to take levels in a different class, what would it be?
Paladin is the obvious choice, but (as I've read in another thread somewhere), he might do as well to take some levels in wizard. He's probably
smart enough.

[Shott]

Paladin wouldn't work out. Belkar's still in the party. = )

[NeonRonin]

Maybe Roy should take a level of Duskblade. (PHB2) They have limited spell selection, but they can cast in armor and have a higher hit die than Wizards.

[brian c]

I like Roy.

He's not perfect, but neither is anyone else in the comic. Since he's the leader, he gets more scrutiny. Each character has made wrong decisions at some point; as Haley points out (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0075.html), everything is basically Roy's fault if anything is wrong.

[Grasilich]

I doubt Roy is going to become a Wizard or any magic user, considering his whole conflict with his father.

[Albonor]

I like Roy because he's pretty much the only one who isn't a DnD character. He acts like a normal, imperfect person would, with a limit to his patience and some expectations towards his comrades. He doesn't anwer the right answer: he says what he thinks is the thing to be said.

Of course, he should have tried to talk to Miko instead of attaking her. But he took a swing at the murderer instead. That's the best he came with in 2 seconds. Roy tries to do the right thing, he doesn't play with the walkthrough.

I also think that most people who don't like Roy do so because, being imperfect themselves, they imagine how Roy would react to their flaws. Nobody likes to be juged, especially by somebody you know to be imperfect too.

[innk]

He is one of my favorite characters.. i cant understand why ppl hate him too oO

His facial expressions are by far my favorite, sometimes i laugh so hard just to look at his face when someone mess up with something, he is wise, logical, strong, badass.. oh well, hes awesome, i dont understand why ppl dont see it :\

[Username]

I think it would be an interesting angle for Roy to somehow end up an Eldritch knight or some variety of caster/melee (known as a Gish build, if I remember correctly). He'd make a good one too, considering all signs point to good mental scores.

[Tharivol123]

I think the deal with Roy is that the people who like him, do so because they identify with him. They are the PCs who keep order in the party and find themselves frustrated at the immature and irresponsible behavior of their fellow PCs. When things get sidetracked and puns start flying, he helps the DM get things back under control.
The people that don't like Roy, could be the people who are the sidetrackers, had a bad experience when a gamer took it too serious, or are ashamed to admit they are one of the first kind.
I shall now stop chanelling my three years of psychology.

[Damaris]

I mostly like Roy because he's funny when annoyed and frustrated. I also find him likable, but I'm always a bit miffed when he gets to be happy for once.

[Peanut Gallery]

I don't like Roy.
Why? He's a jerk. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0153.html
That kicked it off, but its been nothing but reinforced since then. He does keep realizing he's a jerk and rectifying the situation, which is why I don't hate him utterly.
More evidence? Bullying his team to go with Miko. Acting like a victim in all of his meetings with his Dad (who does nothing but try to help him complete the oath to destory Xykon, no matter how pompously he may come off as). Leaving his primary damage dealer incapacitated while hunting the Starmetal. During the Elan-Julia exchange, he leaves Elan under the "protection" of someone who can only deal non-leathal damage.
Unlike Belkar or Xykon, he can't claim evil allignment or (in Belkar's case) stupidity to justify him being a self-absorbed idiot all the time.
The only time I ever really liked the way Roy handled something was in the Origin of PCs with the orc encounter.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0146.html - Belkar sums that up more nicely then I ever could. So much for all those hypocritical complaints about the rest of his group acting incompetantly.

[Roderick_BR]

He's lawful. That's the only reason most players hate a character.
Like Tharivol123 said, he's a group leader, but people don't like that kind of character, prefering chaotic ones. I like him as the sane on in the group, alongside Durkon and V.
I also have the forbidden pleasure of seeing him getting pissed off at Elan sometimes :smalltongue:

[Dectilon]

I don't like Roy.
Why? He's a jerk. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0153.html
That kicked it off, but its been nothing but reinforced since then. He does keep realizing he's a jerk and rectifying the situation, which is why I don't hate him utterly.


That's basically it for me too. He might blame Elan for being childish, but seeing as he is rather sexist himself who is he to throw rocks? : P

[Vulion]

Roy's been me favorite since comic numero uno.

Why? Simply because he is flawed and the most human. Plus I liove his dry wit and cynical observations.

[jjpickar]

It seems kind of ironic that one of the main reasons for liking and disliking is the same. Some people like him because of his particular flaws and other don't like for those same flaws. Me, well I have to admit I like Roy. Not for his flaws per say but because they are a constant struggle for him that he doesn't always lose.

[cavalier973]

Paladin wouldn't work out. Belkar's still in the party. = )

I also think that Miko's whole persona would have turned Roy off the paladin path pretty surely. Hinjo, who's kind of cool, shows that not all paladins are so. . . uptight, but I doubt Roy would go down that path.

Roy's mage heritage, even though he rejected it earlier, shows more promise.

[Setra]

I like all the characters.

I can see both sides of the arguement, but Roy isn't perfect, and who could be after dealing with Elan for extended periods of time? He's easily the most human of the cast, and I like him for that.

I also like Miko, and just to be clear, the popularity for Roy is above that of Miko at this point in time. Ever since she killed Shojo she's pretty much been the most hated character. Which is why I like her, she's a great antagonist.

[Silverlocke980]

I like Roy because he's smart, and- most importantly- he gets annoyed by the things around him. Roy's that part of us far too many people like to pretend they don't have- the part that has a short fuse.

Go, Roy, go!

[Setra]

I like Roy because he's smart, and- most importantly- he gets annoyed by the things around him. Roy's that part of us far too many people like to pretend they don't have- the part that has a short fuse.

Go, Roy, go!
I'm 60% short fuse, just ask the mental hosptials I used to go to :smallbiggrin:

[cavalier973]

Another reason we like Roy is that he can slice off a dragon's head with one
swing of the sword, and helping out a team member in the process.

If it's true that he wanted Xykon to land because of Belkar's MoJ, then it's another point in Roy's favor: that he cares about his teammates.

[kabbes]

I don't really understand why anybody would complain about any of the characters. Between them, they create laughs, stories and dramatic tension. OOTS has consistently been top quality entertainment... why would you think that it would be improved by the removal of one of its key segments?

Even more strangely, there seems to be a bizarre need amongst a sizable segment of this community to actually personally like all the characters in a story. I don't know what kind of boring-ass stories these people like to read, but personally I enjoy something a little more meaty on my plot-device bones.

And Roy kicks ass, so there.

[Gitman00]

I can see a lot of reasons why people don't like Roy. One that keeps coming up has a lot to do with Miko, who could be seen as a foil for Roy. Because of this, Miko's fans naturally compare the two, and often have a hard time liking both. By the same token, those who hate Miko compare her unfavorably to Roy. It's two sides of the same coin.

Roy is snarky and short-tempered, and obviously has some issues with his father. However, he's still my favorite character in this strip. He's the one that holds it all together. He's Cyclops to Belkar's Wolverine. This is, if we're honest with ourselves, Roy's story. He doesn't have many jokes, because he's the straight man. But the man has to assume responsibility for all his party's actions, and he bears the burden of leadership with (most of the time) grace and dignity.


I don't like Roy.
Why? He's a jerk. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0153.html
That kicked it off, but its been nothing but reinforced since then. He does keep realizing he's a jerk and rectifying the situation, which is why I don't hate him utterly.

I also, unlike some, note some real character development in Roy. Since the Elan Bandit Incident, Roy has been nothing but loyal to his teammates, and shows real introspection when confronted with his flaws. I think the flaws themselves, alongside a genuine, consistent effort to do the right thing, are why I can relate to him.


More evidence? Bullying his team to go with Miko. Acting like a victim in all of his meetings with his Dad (who does nothing but try to help him complete the oath to destory Xykon, no matter how pompously he may come off as). Leaving his primary damage dealer incapacitated while hunting the Starmetal. During the Elan-Julia exchange, he leaves Elan under the "protection" of someone who can only deal non-leathal damage.
Unlike Belkar or Xykon, he can't claim evil allignment or (in Belkar's case) stupidity to justify him being a self-absorbed idiot all the time.

Evidence? Okay. Very selective evidence, however. There are mitigating factors in those examples that I'm reluctant to go into due to the risk of entering a bout of urinary Olympics. There's taking on a bandit camp singlehandedly to rescue his teammates. There's also defending Belkar from death by Miko at great risk to himself (she had already beaten the entire OotS twice). There's taking arrows to protect Elan. I could go on.

Bottom line, Roy is a good guy. Just not always a nice guy. If he were in my universe, he's a guy I could have a beer with and discuss politics, or watch the game, or we could gripe about the idiots we work with. I could get along with Roy.

[cavalier973]

How do you join fan clubs?
Or do you just declare yourself a member . . .

[Gitman00]

How do you join fan clubs?
Or do you just declare yourself a member . . .

Pretty much you just put it in your sig. That's what I did, anyway.:smallsmile:

[Morty]

I can see a lot of reasons why people don't like Roy. One that keeps coming up has a lot to do with Miko, who could be seen as a foil for Roy. Because of this, Miko's fans naturally compare the two, and often have a hard time liking both. By the same token, those who hate Miko compare her unfavorably to Roy. It's two sides of the same coin.

Comparing Roy to Miko to make Roy look bad makes no sense. Everything you can blame Roy of- arrogancy, claiming superiority without any reasons- fits Miko too.

[Akaziel]

Yep, Roy kicks ass. Can't argue with that.

[Gitman00]

Comparing Roy to Miko to make Roy look bad makes no sense. Everything you can blame Roy of- arrogancy, claiming superiority without any reasons- fits Miko too.

I agree completely. I didn't say that these were GOOD reasons. Note that I'm a Roy fan. I also don't hate Miko. I'm just pointing out that certain posters have a tendency to compare the two, as though the vices of one were relevant to the virtues of the other. Basically, when a Miko debate happens, someone says, "Miko's great. Look at when Roy did X, Y, and Z. HE's the scumbag." And then someone counters with, "No way! Roy's the man! Miko sucks! She did A, B, and C!" Amusing, really, since neither is particularly logical.

[cavalier973]

I like Roy because he's the only one who can consistently make Xykon's eyes go round with astonishment.

[Morty]

I agree completely. I didn't say that these were GOOD reasons. Note that I'm a Roy fan. I also don't hate Miko. I'm just pointing out that certain posters have a tendency to compare the two, as though the vices of one were relevant to the virtues of the other. Basically, when a Miko debate happens, someone says, "Miko's great. Look at when Roy did X, Y, and Z. HE's the scumbag." And then someone counters with, "No way! Roy's the man! Miko sucks! She did A, B, and C!" Amusing, really, since neither is particularly logical.

Yeah, it's funny that Roy and Miko are often put into "v.s" by Roy/Miko lovers/haters, while these two characters are in fact very similiar.

[Kreistor]

Roy's the straight man. The real reason people don't like him is that he doesn't make jokes... he's the one that sets up jokes for others.

[Gitman00]

Roy's the straight man. The real reason people don't like him is that he doesn't make jokes... he's the one that sets up jokes for others.

I don't think it's that simple. Durkon fills the straight man role, too, but I don't know of anyone who dislikes him. Durkon's a lot more unassuming than Roy, though, and we haven't seen any real character flaws in him. I don't count his tree phobia.

[TheAlmightyOne]

I think Roys great. Hes a little self absorbed (starmetal quest etc) but then again will always look out for his team. Not to mention the fact that he seems to be the but off everyones jokes just makes him seem so much funnier.

[Schattenjaeger]

I like Roy because I can empathize with him- i.e. having to deal with morons, while at the same time having to put up a veneer of self-control. There are a lot of times I would prefer to lash out at what's bugging me, but I know I shouldn't, so I save it up for when I get home and exercise with my punching bag. So I say, give Roy a break- he's doing the best he can with what life handed him. Just like a lot of us do every day.


I hadn't initially thought of that, but this is a perfect reason for me to like Roy. Still, Belkar is my favorite; he's completely indifferent, blunt, sarcastic, and doesn't hold himself back unless there's a very good reason to (self-preservation, for instance).

[Edivad]

I personally like Roy. I understand if others don't, but I find it somewhat hard to believe there are people who actually believe him to be nasty or arrogant.

Yes, he's the straight man, the one who doesn't usually make jokes, and often he behaves himself as if he was superior to others - like when he treats the others in the parties like they were morons. However, do note that often the other party members(especially Elan and Belkar)do have serious character flaws which Roy lacks. Perhaps, in some ways, Roy is superior - I'm not saying Roy is perfect - far from it, but I find his flaws are more realistic and acceptable than the others's ones.
He's not greedy and kleptomaniac like Haley,stupid like Elan), and evil Belkar. He doesn't have the same weird phobia of trees as Durkon.
Perhaps he partially shares some flaws with Varsuvius - as both seem to flaunt some sort of superiority, although in Roy case I would say it is somewhat more justified - because, while he might not have the Intelligence of Varsuvius, the Charisma of Elan or the Wisdom of Durkon, he is, overall, more 'mentally proficient'than the others - despite being a Fighter, a steretypically dumb profession.

Also, do keep note that, even if some times it looks like he mistreats his companions, it's almost always in response to their mistakes - notice how nicely he gets nicely along with V and Durkon, who, compared to Haley, Elan and Belkar, are altogether more bearable.
Anyway despite his(somewhat justified, as I said)lack of tolerance for others flaws, he's a decent leader who CARES for his companions even when it looks like abandoning them would be the course of action - consider this for Elan and Belkar, and how many times he could just have abandoned them and got another Bard and Ranger/Barbarian.

Oh, and I want to offer you another comparison: don't you think Roy has something in common with Redcloak? Both are relatively straight men(ok, :redcloak: is a goblin, but that's the idea), both are intelligent and resourceful and both often feel like they are surrounded by morons. Also, notice how in the latest strips we have been shown that it's Redcloak who is the actual leader of the army. One important difference is that, while Roy cares for his party, Redcloak has no problem with sacrificing hordes and hordes of Hobgoblins - but that's ok, as :redcloak: is evil...

[Green Bean]

I like Roy because I see shades of myself in him. I'm usually the straight man, who cleans up the messes. And I emphathize with him because, quite frankly, he alot of stuff gets dumped on him.

He's the leader, so he has to keep :elan: from getting them all killed and stop :belkar: from slitting the Order's throats in their sleep and prevent :haley: from robbing them all blind. Not only that, but he's inheirited a blood oath from his father (who think's he's a failure) against someone whom he has virtually no chance of defeating, and made an enemy of a dangerous adventuring party as well as a high level ex-paladin.

He's responsible for all of that, which means that if anything goes wrong, it's on his head. I can't blame him for being a little crabby.

[EvilElitest]

I don't like Roy.
Why? He's a jerk. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0153.html

Everybody keeps bringing this up, but they always never give a link to this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0162.html)
I mean reread it, an read it slowly
"Oh Gods Elan!" Am i Really so intent on wallowing in my own self-pity that I'm willing to cast a helpless innocent to those thieves. What is wrong with me, i'm a disgrace to my alignment. Well that's gonna change now. Thanks for setting me straight Dad. I'm oging to pack my gear and go resuse Elan."
"AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"
"I'm gonna pack my gear and go rescue the entire party"
Note, he holds himself to the same standards as everyone else, is able to catch himself, and he is able to admit he is wrong, unlike Miko. He is also thankful for coming to terms "Thanks for setting my styraight Dad". Unlike Miko again, when he knows he is wrong, he tries to fix it and accepts his being wrong


That kicked it off, but its been nothing but reinforced since then. He does keep realizing he's a jerk and rectifying the situation, which is why I don't hate him utterly.
Wait, that only happened once, what other times are you talking about?


More evidence? Bullying his team to go with Miko. Acting like a victim in all of his meetings with his Dad (who does nothing but try to help him complete the oath to destory Xykon, no matter how pompously he may come off as). Leaving his primary damage dealer incapacitated while hunting the Starmetal
1. While i dislike Miko highly, he did not bully his team, bear in mind, it is evil to kill good people, not matter how up tight they are. For all of her many flaws miko is still a paladin at that time, and so killing her can not be good or productive. it is also good to come quickly and come to and understanding with their "crimes" It is not bullying, it is agreeing with Durkon and coming quickly and any good person would do if their was a chance to avoid volience. Note when Miko went over her self and treated them like crap, Roy was the one who stood up for the party, after apoligizing or any of his possible offensive actions. Best strip ever (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0251.html)
2. Acting like a vicom, how does that make him a jerk. hell for that matter, he is not acting like a victom, he is being sarcastic and critical of his less than moral father. And he did take the job for protect others, as he said here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0293.html)
And i quote
"I would love to say that I couldn't believe that my own fother would mess with my life like this, to the point of getting my imprisoned and nearly killed- but i know better. you're exactly selfish enought to do this to your own son to quench your own thirst for vengeance." "Everything about this has diaster written all over it. Shojo can't be trusted, you certainly can't be trusted. This whole "job offer" stinks worse than an otyugh covereed in saurkraut on a hot day"
And yes, i'm going to accept it any way
"As much as I loath how you've manipulated my friends and me, Xykon is an actual thread. I'm not goint to sit and let him get away with whatever he's planned just because my father happens to be a self obsorbed arrogent jerks. Therir are to many lives at stake."


During the Elan-Julia exchange, he leaves Elan under the "protection" of someone who can only deal non-leathal damage.
Maybe because everybody else is busy?
Elan is useless, He is using him self as bait, the spell casters are back up, and Haly is a sniper. He figures that while Belkar can't fight, he can run, and help Elan if some trouble occurs. now it didn't work, but that was hardly Roy's fault. And you can't call him a jerk because he could have simple handed over Elan for his sister.


Unlike Belkar or Xykon, he can't claim evil allignment or (in Belkar's case) stupidity to justify him being a self-absorbed idiot all the time.
1. Roy has only commited one evil act, and he repented
2. Stupidy, idiot. Wow, so what does that make Elan?
3. he doesn't need evil to justify his action, as the vast majority make sense. Maybe not work, but make sense.


http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0146.html - Belkar sums that up more nicely then I ever could. So much for all those hypocritical complaints about the rest of his group acting incompetantly.
1. It is belkar
2. Hyocrital? OOTS? Please, it is one of the most barely compatent group i've seen, read the first few strips
from,
EE

[InfiniteMiller]

I like Roy because of his incredible loyalty. We know that he isn't just looking out for himself anymore and shows some genuine friendship for the Order. He does have to put up with quite a motley crew of allies, as well as many tedious blood oaths, etc. Thus, he usually wears a grumpy frown and you really do feel sorry for him after a while. Then something finally goes his way, like the reforging of his now +5 ancestral sword, and I really have to cheer for him. All his hard work finally pays off.

:)

[SteveMB]

Wait, that only happened once, what other times are you talking about?
The other possible example I can think of is his pestering Miko with pick-up lines even though she was clearly ignoring them in the hope that he'd quit. He apologized for that right before confronting Miko about her own obnoxious behavior.

[Idless]

He's too grumpy. :roy:

That's Elan Talking :P

...Idless

[Tmabbbb]

Roy is way too mean to everybody. I don't like Miko either, but she might not be as mean as Roy. At least she's loyal and obedient, even if she misreads everything that happens. Roy, on the other hand, bosses everyone around (Elan, Belkar, Haley, sometimes Durkon and V.) And that's just the OOTS. There's also Miko, Kabuto, Eugene, Julia, Roy's mother, Shojo, and numerous other NPCs. And if that's not enough, almost every single character we've seen him meet has been treated poorly by him. There's the Linear Guild, many innocent people in Azure City, the bandits, many random people he meets in towns, the assassins, etc. But I suppose that is partly justified, however; his anger towards his helping allies is not. Elan may be annoying and childish, but he is nice to Roy, while Roy never has a kind word for him. Furthermore, abandoning him in a forest full of bandits is not very LG. Haley is suspicious, but her suspicions are often true. (Why don't you trust these fine Linear Guild folks. Anyone remember that?) And, finally, the strips 200-249 when Roy was mean to his entire team, just because Miko looked nice, is not LG. He ignored Durkon, angered V, ignored Elan, ignored Haley, and paid no attention to Belkar. The team found it completely unbearable when Roy was acting nice to Miko, who tried to kill all 6 of them. In conclusion, I believe that Roy is very mean and uncaring, and someone who I would not like to see be the one to save the world. (Why can't it be Elan?)

[EvilElitest]

The other possible example I can think of is his pestering Miko with pick-up lines even though she was clearly ignoring them in the hope that he'd quit. He apologized for that right before confronting Miko about her own obnoxious behavior
Hmmmm, ok two times, though this one was less evil, and you have to admit he did apoligize.


Roy is way too mean to everybody. I don't like Miko either, but she might not be as mean as Roy. At least she's loyal and obedient, even if she misreads everything that happens.

I don't think a person who cuts their own lord in half without ample evidence is very loyal. Roy has shown great loyality many a time thoughout the series, often risking his life more than any other character.


Roy, on the other hand, bosses everyone around (Elan, Belkar, Haley, sometimes Durkon and V.) And that's just the OOTS. There's also Miko, Kabuto, Eugene, Julia, Roy's mother, Shojo, and numerous other NPCs. And if that's not enough, almost every single character we've seen him meet has been treated poorly by him. There's the Linear Guild, many innocent people in Azure City, the bandits, many random people he meets in towns, the assassins, etc.
1. OOTS? they are one of teh most incompatent group in the world. Do you think Elan and belkar can do things correctly without being bossed around?
2. er, i think you've made a mistake with roy bossing miko, isn't it visa versa?
3. I can't say for Roy's mothers, but most of those characters deserved it in some way or other
4. Why should he bit polite to hte LG the assassins and the bandits?
5. What innocent people? The doctor guy?



But I suppose that is partly justified, however; his anger towards his helping allies is not. Elan may be annoying and childish, but he is nice to Roy, while Roy never has a kind word for him.
1. Not sure about that kind word part, he has saved his ass quite a few times
2. why would you give Elan any responsibilty? I mean really, the guy is useless.

Furthermore, abandoning him in a forest full of bandits is not very LG.
And he realizied that and came back to save him

Haley is suspicious, but her suspicions are often true. (Why don't you trust these fine Linear Guild folks.
Wait you yell at Roy for being mean to th LG and then say he should listen to haley. Haley is slightly paranoid and he hasn't really treated her rudely as yet


And, finally, the strips 200-249 when Roy was mean to his entire team, just because Miko looked nice, is not LG. He ignored Durkon, angered V, ignored Elan, ignored Haley, and paid no attention to Belkar. The team found it completely unbearable when Roy was acting nice to Miko, who tried to kill all 6 of them.
1. Not killing a paladin and trying to come to a peacful solution to a problem is LG
2. His personal feelngs for miko regardless, killing a good person is evil
3. he didn't ignored Durkon, He listened to him, that was the person who surggested surrender
4. He ignored haley and V's attempt to murder a paladin
5. And ignoring Elan and belkar is bad why?
6. And he stood up for them when she went to far



In conclusion, I believe that Roy is very mean and uncaring, and someone who I would not like to see be the one to save the world. (Why can't it be Elan?)
Because Roy is intellegent and compatent, while Elan is not?
from,
EE

[lin_fusan]

The other possible example I can think of is his pestering Miko with pick-up lines even though she was clearly ignoring them in the hope that he'd quit.

Waitaminute, trying to pick up a girl is evil?

But if that's true, and girls like bad boys, then how come I never get the girl? :smallmad:

[Jade_Tarem]

Roy is way too mean to everybody. I don't like Miko either, but she might not be as mean as Roy. At least she's loyal and obedient, even if she misreads everything that happens.

Sorry, Miko lost the obedience/loyalty contest when she slew her liege.


Roy, on the other hand, bosses everyone around (Elan, Belkar, Haley, sometimes Durkon and V.) And that's just the OOTS. There's also Miko, Kabuto, Eugene, Julia, Roy's mother, Shojo, and numerous other NPCs. And if that's not enough, almost every single character we've seen him meet has been treated poorly by him.

Well, bear in mind that when he seems uncaring about minor NPCs that it's a DnD joke rather than Roy-specific character exposition. A lot of people miss that. Miko, Kabuto, and a number of other people have tried to kill him, so he really is entitled to be snarky to them. Eugene has sent him on a pointless quest and has never supported Roy because Roy didn't follow in his footsteps. Shojo also put the OOTS through a lot of pain and trials, and even though he had to it can be difficult to separate action and person when you're about to die for an action you didn't even know was a crime - and I don't even know what you're talking about with Roy's mother... she's only appeared in a flashback.


There's the Linear Guild, many innocent people in Azure City, the bandits, many random people he meets in towns, the assassins, etc.

All of whom have tried to kill him or inconvenienced him in some way - usually through incompetence.


But I suppose that is partly justified, however; his anger towards his helping allies is not. Elan may be annoying and childish, but he is nice to Roy, while Roy never has a kind word for him.

No, he just takes on an army of bandits and intercepts arrows with his body for him.


Furthermore, abandoning him in a forest full of bandits is not very LG.

And yet, he didn't. Notice how Roy changes his mind in order to stay on track with his alignment? As EE said, everyone always brings this up and tries to pretend that he didn't change his mind and rescue the entire party. You have to take the entire story arc into account.


And, finally, the strips 200-249 when Roy was mean to his entire team, just because Miko looked nice, is not LG. He ignored Durkon, angered V, ignored Elan, ignored Haley, and paid no attention to Belkar. The team found it completely unbearable when Roy was acting nice to Miko, who tried to kill all 6 of them. In conclusion, I believe that Roy is very mean and uncaring, and someone who I would not like to see be the one to save the world. (Why can't it be Elan?)

*Sigh* I'm no Miko fan, but think this through: You're LG. You're summoned by the lawful authority of a southern nation to stand trial. You believe in being lawful so you want to go there (and by the way, how did he "ignore" Durkon after the initial fight? Durkon wanted to go south too.) Your nearly-all-chaotic group thinks otherwise. As thier leader, do you A) put them on a tighter leash or B) attack the paladin sent to bring you in in cold blood and spend the rest of your lives as fugitives from the law? Also, the person sent to collect you is of your alignment, powerful, noble, exotic, shares similar interests (melee combat/whacking bad guys) and attractive - or at least appears so at first. It is a natural thing to feel some attraction (even lust) to this person. The fact that Roy comes to his senses and stands by his team after only a 24 hour period (check it out - it's a pretty short time for him to percieve what Miko really is) is a point in his favor. Granted, he was pretty crude in talking to Miko during that time, but that stopped the same time that his attraction did - and he refused Miko's offer to begin a real romantic relationship too.

[zombie chick]

well i do like Roy, hes a warrior and i like the way he struggles against the warrior meat shield/fighters are dumb stereotype. anyone who has had to fight against a well established prejudice does tend to get a little grumpy.
but i like him for being the straight man and for his sarcastic sense of humour. he brings a little sanity to the group, which lets face it, is needed to balence out the wackiness.
dont get me wrong i love the charecters, but i htink tehy wouldnt be quite as funny or work as well without him.
and he is very loyal to them all despite knowing their flaws, thats true friendship

[Thrawn183]

Roy is a mean guy!? Why don't you take a glance at strip 38, if Roy is a mean guy than Elan is evil (torturing a helpless person). He's the one who's the jerk in the party (not counting Belkar of course, he's in a category of his own). He never cares about the ramifications of his actions or how he might inconvenience his "friends."

Roy and Durkon are the only nice people in the entire party.

[Oxymoron]

You people just don`t like Roy because he is black, admit it!

I`m just kidding.

But anyway, Roy is my favorite character. He is levelheaded and smart. And need I remind everyone that even though he dosen`t like Elan, he saved him from dying of poison. That`s loyalty. He has his faults of course, but who dosen`t?

[Gaelbert]

Personally, I've always liked Roy. But after reading On the Origins of the PCs, I've liked him even more, for giving Durkon especially a chance, and Elan.

[Aquillion]

Don't forget that he impersonated royalty to defraud an honest hotel! He was perfectly willing to bring his whole team halfway across the world to stand trial if it let him stay near a woman he wanted to bone, then suddenly decided to defy the law once he changed his mind about her. He (along with Durkon, somehow) tortured a kobold by hanging him out the window in order to facilitate theft of services. He orchestrated a jailbreak, conspired with a head of state to do an end-run around the country's legal system, and attempted to free a mass-murderer from jail on a technicality.

...I don't really care one way or the other about Roy, but I don't at all see how he can claim a Lawful alignment with a straight face. Seriously, Elan and Haley are both more lawful than he is.

[Demented]

Roy is Lawful Good... in the sense that Lawful is an adjective of Good.
In every other way, he's Chaotic Bad (Boy).

[Fawkes]

Roy is Lawful Good... in the sense that Lawful is an adjective of Good.

I say unto you: Huh?

[Demented]

I say unto you, in the words of my uncle: Huh?

Fixed!
Emphasis mine.


Anyway, I just typed that because it was fun.
There is, in fact, a meaning, but it's of no great importance or accuracy.

[Bluefin]

Allez Shazam?

Anyway, I like Roy. The leaving Elan thing wasn't good but he tried to fix it later. And most of the party needs to be bossed around. Especially Elan and Belkar. One of the reasons I like Roy is how the world constantly tries to mess him up and he has to deal with it.

[Demented]

Allez kisin!

Or "Allez cuisine!" for all you non-engrish speakers out there.

The world is hardly trying to mess him up. It's just the natural way of the world. Afterall, he was apparently smart enough to be a wizard, but no, he wanted to be a fighter just because the family heirloom was a greatsword. Whoop-tee-doo.

And now he's doing what, exactly? Falling out of the sky, like the self-important genius that he thinks he is.


And it's why I love 'im. Seriously. He's invited to dinner every friday.

[GolemsVoice]

I personally like ROy very much.
And I can't understand the thing that Roy is evil. He clearly is not, and I am not talking about alignments. Look at the party in which he travels. A bloodthirsty psychopath, a thieve, a wizard who cares more for his power than for his teammates, and a adult man with the mind of a 10 year old child. So who of them would you like to share a room with? When Belkar goes on another rampage, everyone is like "Woo! Go Belkar! Isn't he cute, in an evil way?". However, when Roy just says what he thinks, everyone is like "Shame on him, bossing people around and stuff."

Apart from that, he is the person necessary for plot advancement. Without him and his goals, the party would just loose itself in whatever activity they are enjoying at the moment.

[Fawkes]

Yeah, for some reason, a lot of forumgoers see rudeness as unforgiveable but think murder is such a minor thing.

Well, sure, I killed that guy, but he didn't say excuse me when he bumped into me, so it's justified.

[Demented]

It's not necessarily the same people who are saying those two different things.

Plus, it's not just a simple matter of deciding that one character's actions are more morally reprehensible than another's. There are variables and stat arrays involved, you know!

[Oxymoron]

Don't forget that he impersonated royalty to defraud an honest hotel! He was perfectly willing to bring his whole team halfway across the world to stand trial if it let him stay near a woman he wanted to bone, then suddenly decided to defy the law once he changed his mind about her. He (along with Durkon, somehow) tortured a kobold by hanging him out the window in order to facilitate theft of services. He orchestrated a jailbreak, conspired with a head of state to do an end-run around the country's legal system, and attempted to free a mass-murderer from jail on a technicality.

...I don't really care one way or the other about Roy, but I don't at all see how he can claim a Lawful alignment with a straight face. Seriously, Elan and Haley are both more lawful than he is.

Look, Roy only breaks the law when he must. LG does not mean that you have to obey every law and rule in the universe, it means that you respect authority and tradition and you try to behave honorable. Roy will sometimes fall short of his ideals but he TRIES to be lawful most of the time. Its like saying Belkar can`t be chaotic since he works with a team and sometimes obeys orders.

[Talya]

Roy = Awesome.

People hate Roy because they read the gaming forum and people keep telling them how much fighters suck, while Durkon is CoDZilla and Varsuuvius is Batman. (Errr. Batperson) ;)

[EvilElitest]

Don't forget that he impersonated royalty to defraud an honest hotel!
No he didn't impersonate royalty to defraud teh hotel, he was mistaked for royalty because of the servers incompatence, re-read the strip. While it was not saintly of him to do it, he certainly wasn't evil in taking advantage of their mistake


He was perfectly willing to bring his whole team halfway across the world to stand trial if it let him stay near a woman he wanted to bone
Wrong, he didn't want to kill a paladin and he wanted to sort this problem out. him flirting with miko is a very different issue, but not the sole reason of his agreeing with their captivity. Much as i hate to say it, OOTS were guilty of some charges, and Roy knew that he should be found innocent of his crimes, so killing MIko would solve nothing but commiting evil


then suddenly decided to defy the law once he changed his mind about her.
Wait, you accuse him of defying the law, but never about following the law? he stood up to miko because she was abusive and uncivil, cruel, and zealos, and quite frankly he didn't want to submit his party to something that he at that point knew would never work out.


He (along with Durkon, somehow) tortured a kobold by hanging him out the window in order to facilitate theft of services.
Of course, and the Oracle ofall people would not attempt to start a fight of all the people in the world, yeah
Also the oracle jifted roy out of a quetstion


He orchestrated a jailbreak, conspired with a head of state to do an end-run around the country's legal system, and attempted to free a mass-murderer from jail on a technicality.
1. Yes, avoiding the death sentence in a non evil way is evil funny. The evil way, what belkar did, the good way, what Roy did
2. So taking advantage of legal loopholes to save the world from Snarl is evil? Funny
3. Belkar is his comrad in arms as he proved when protecting him from belkar


...I don't really care one way or the other about Roy, but I don't at all see how he can claim a Lawful alignment with a straight face. Seriously, Elan and Haley are both more lawful than he is.

Wow that makes sense

A theif who steals from her own people
Shoots the truth guy in the foot
More stealing
More stealing
More stealing
And all around not obeying the law and a moron like Elan are more lawful than Roy, care to back that up?
from
EE

[Mordokai]

EE makes very good point(s), so I'm not even going to try and level with other Roy haters.

I like him for all the reasons people have already mentioned. He is smart, loyal, generaly good natured and at same time has many flaws that make him stand out as a real life person, not just two sheets of papers(character, for those who didn't understand). He is LG, but at the same time not zealous. He belives more in the good part of his alignment than lawful part. He is willing to risk his own safety and life for the others, and he puts up with tons of crap from the other party. Does anyone ever think of what the DCs for Will saves are when you have to travel with a group like Roy's? And yet, he puts up with them, even saves their bacon on regular basis. He is strong bodilay and mentaly. The list could go on, if I had the will to write it, which I don't. I mean, seriously, what's not to like in this guy? If he was a real life person I would want him to be my friend, even if it meant to put up with a few sarcastic comment. On a daily basis:smallwink:

[jindra34]

EE makes very good point(s), so I'm not even going to try and level with other Roy haters.

I like him for all the reasons people have already mentioned. He is smart, loyal, generaly good natured and at same time has many flaws that make him stand out as a real life person, not just two sheets of papers(character, for those who didn't understand). He is LG, but at the same time not zealous. He belives more in the good part of his alignment than lawful part. He is willing to risk his own safety and life for the others, and he puts up with tons of crap from the other party. Does anyone ever think of what the DCs for Will saves are when you have to travel with a group like Roy's? And yet, he puts up with them, even saves their bacon on regular basis. He is strong bodilay and mentaly. The list could go on, if I had the will to write it, which I don't. I mean, seriously, what's not to like in this guy? If he was a real life person I would want him to be my friend, even if it meant to put up with a few sarcastic comment. On a daily basis:smallwink:

I think they dislike him because he is black... [ducks]

[EvilElitest]

EE makes very good point(s), so I'm not even going to try and level with other Roy haters.
Thank you

I think they dislike him because he is black... [ducks]
That or baldnes

(Leaves teh country)
from,
EE

[happyturtle]

Roy reminds me of my dad. Takes life a little too seriously, is a little too grumpy, complains a little too much, is a little too proud of himself, and is 100% to be counted on. Roy is the stand up guy of the strip.

(Oh, and I like Miko too, but perhaps since I started reading right at her fall, I've never seen it as Roy v. Miko)

[Aquillion]

No he didn't impersonate royalty to defraud teh hotel, he was mistaked for royalty because of the servers incompatence, re-read the strip. While it was not saintly of him to do it, he certainly wasn't evil in taking advantage of their mistakepI said chaotic, not evil. Taking advantage of a situation like that to such an extent is certainly a chaotic act, and while one chaotic act doesn't make you chaotic, look at it in the context of the rest of his behavior...


Wrong, he didn't want to kill a paladin and he wanted to sort this problem out. him flirting with miko is a very different issue, but not the sole reason of his agreeing with their captivity. Much as i hate to say it, OOTS were guilty of some charges, and Roy knew that he should be found innocent of his crimes, so killing MIko would solve nothing but commiting evilHis all but admitted that it was his sole reason for going with her. He only changed his mind after taking a feminine perspective on her, remember? Certainly, there were plenty of reasons to follow or not follow her at various points; but the sole event that changed his mind was the fact that he suddenly didn't find her attractive anymore.


Wait, you accuse him of defying the law, but never about following the law? he stood up to miko because she was abusive and uncivil, cruel, and zealos, and quite frankly he didn't want to submit his party to something that he at that point knew would never work out.Yes, he knew it would never work out because he no longer wanted to bone her. Nothing else had changed; she was acting as bad as she'd been acting all along. He just realized he didn't want her anymore.


Of course, and the Oracle ofall people would not attempt to start a fight of all the people in the world, yeah
Also the oracle jifted roy out of a quetstionThe oracle's a kobold with all his skills focused in divination. It's silly to think he's going to start a fight, especially one he would lose. So, yeah, Roy asked a badly-worded question, got a bad answer, then decided he hadn't gotten what he paid for and took the law into his own hands. That's not very lawful at all.


1. Yes, avoiding the death sentence in a non evil way is evil funny. The evil way, what belkar did, the good way, what Roy did
2. So taking advantage of legal loopholes to save the world from Snarl is evil? Funny
3. Belkar is his comrad in arms as he proved when protecting him from belkarIt is not evil, it is chaotic. Roy has, at every turn, shown an attitude towards rules and the law that amounts to "They're a nice tool when they can accomplish what I want, but otherwise, screw them. Accomplishing my goals is more important than following the rules." He applies this to everything from the minor (boning Miko, getting extra perks at a hotel) to the major (protecting friends, saving the world.) That is, at best, a neutral way of thinking, and certainly not anywhere near lawful.


Wow that makes sense

A theif who steals from her own people
Shoots the truth guy in the foot
More stealing
More stealing
More stealing
And all around not obeying the law and a moron like Elan are more lawful than Roy, care to back that up?
from
EESure. Haley, I'll admit, was an exaggeration, but Elan is plainly more lawful than Roy. Elan believes in an inherently lawful world, one driven by storybook convention and narrative structures. He believes in dramatic tension, in beginning-middle-end plots, in happily-ever-afters. He's not a lawful character, but he's more lawful than Roy.

Other things: A family oath is certainly lawful... but Roy was perfectly willing to forget about his oath once he decided his father was a jerk. Not very lawful. He decided to save the world because it was the good thing to do, not because he lives an ordered existence; his actions there tended towards chaotic good. ("I don't care what the rules say, I'm going to do what's right.")

What law does Roy follow, when it isn't convenient for him? What laws does he believe in? He seems to see the law as an inconvenience most of the time. He hasn't shown any code of honor, just a general sense of goodness (which, again, is perfectly normal for a chaotic good character.)

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Roy being Neutral Good or Chaotic Good. I just don't see how he can claim to be lawful.

...personally, I always thought it was a subtle joke on the fact that usually nobody cares whether characters who don't have class-mechanics riding on their alignment follow it or not.

[Porthos]

Roy is probably the most well-rounded and complicated character in the entire saga. And since he has a lot of facets to his character, this gives a lot opportunities for people to find reasons to dislike him.

Let me give one example:

The Number One reason given, above all others, for the disliking Roy is Roy's treatment of Elan. And you know what? The way that Roy treats Elan is wrong.... And Roy knows it. So why does he do it? Well, IMO, it's because of his upbringing. If we look at the relationship between Roy and his father, we see an eerie parallel to the way that Roy treats Elan. Roy grew up in a household where complements were few and far between. Did something wrong or something that someone disapproved? You get a sarcastic comment blasted in your face.

So it is second nature for Roy to respond to things he doesn't like with sarcastic put downs. And yet Roy hated getting those from his father. So when he realizes what he is doing to Elan, he tries to stop himself from doing it. Does he always succeed? Nope. But they ain't called Personal Demons for nothing. :smallsmile: (Well, that and the fact that Elan would try just about anybody's patience :smalltongue: )

And that is, when it comes right down to it, the difference between Roy and someone like Miko or Eugene. Roy realizes that he has character flaws and tries not to act out on them. Roy is trying to make himself a better person to those around him. In short he is growing up as a person. Compare his courtship of Miko with that of Celia. Completely different. Compare his treatment of Elan before the Bandit Camp and after it. Is he still sarcastic toward Elan? Sure. But that's because he still is battling those demons. :smallwink: But he is nowhere near as dismissive of Elan as he used to be.

Another example would be how he tricked people into going on the Starmetal Quest vs letting them have a choice to go after Xykon when he found out they were still alive. In the first case, he selfishly tried to bend the party to his will. In the second case he was completely up front with all of the pluses and minuses of the quest.

In conclusion, like all of the characters, Roy has faults. And some posters react very badly to those faults. But at least Roy is trying to either A) change those faults or B) channel them into situations where they don't matter (i.e instead of always insulting Elan, he has progressed more to a level of Buddy Banter).

[EvilElitest]

I said chaotic, not evil. Taking advantage of a situation like that to such an extent is certainly a chaotic act, and while one chaotic act doesn't make you chaotic, look at it in the context of the rest of his behavior...

This rest of his behavoir?
This is a chatoic action yes, but i minor one has he didn't attempt to fool the staff in any way. So no, this doesn't change his aligment


His all but admitted that it was his sole reason for going with her. He only changed his mind after taking a feminine perspective on her, remember? Certainly, there were plenty of reasons to follow or not follow her at various points; but the sole event that changed his mind was the fact that he suddenly didn't find her attractive anymore.
No, he has made it quite clear that he cares about others and he has tried to reach a peaceful solution. He was attracted to her yes, but he also knew she was a paladin. Her being a paladin means that while she is a nasty *****, she is good. He listened to Durkon's advice, he knows after talking with her that they are somewhat guilty with the LG and Elan pressing the rune ect, he knew that she was the same aligment and that she repersented a good cause. Their is nothing good about killing a paladin, but plenty evil, namely having murdered a good person, pissed off an entire city full of paladins, and causing tons of trouble ect. He liked miko, but his reason for working with her was plainly because it seemed the most moral thing to do


Yes, he knew it would never work out because he no longer wanted to bone her. Nothing else had changed; she was acting as bad as she'd been acting all along. He just realized he didn't want her anymore.
Hooray for baseless arguments! What do you mean nothing else changed. they had to put up with her for a day and a half. Roy didn't know everything their was to know about Miko, as time went on it became apperent that she was more and more of a nasty person. He also rellized that she was stepping on their rights. If miko had been a nice kind person she would have treated the supect with civilaty and kindness, not brutality. At the point of Roy's out burst it has become apperenty that miko is willing to abuse and hinder the party ,to the point of trying to "Show them the proper way". As a LG leader, it is his duty to stand up to her
His not longer being attracted to her was a seperate issue, involving his apoligy to her at the start of his rant.


The oracle's a kobold with all his skills focused in divination. It's silly to think he's going to start a fight, especially one he would lose. So, yeah, Roy asked a badly-worded question, got a bad answer, then decided he hadn't gotten what he paid for and took the law into his own hands. That's not very lawful at all.
I ment that the Oracle is an insulting little bastard. We don't know the details of the situation, and roy was jipped. Their ought to be no logical reason for the Oracle to say such a nasty answer when the real one would have worked.
Also bear in mind, Durkon worked with him, so i'll presume that their was a cause.
The oracle is just hte type to provoke a fight.


It is not evil, it is chaotic. Roy has, at every turn, shown an attitude towards rules and the law that amounts to "They're a nice tool when they can accomplish what I want, but otherwise, screw them. Accomplishing my goals is more important than following the rules."
1. Try backing up your claims. You just said "He did this" when we look at the comic in question, it becomes apperntly that you are quite frankly wrong
2. It is in fact not chaotic because at that point it has become apperent that they are being imprisoined unjustly, as in regards to Miko behavoir. It is a human right to escape and it is lawful to think for the lives of his men (and women)



He applies this to everything from the minor (boning Miko, getting extra perks at a hotel) to the major (protecting friends, saving the world.) That is, at best, a neutral way of thinking, and certainly not anywhere near lawful.
Wow, you love basless statments. Considering you have nothing to back this up
1. He worked with miko because it was the most morally correct thing to do, dispite the fact his party didn't like it. His attraction to her is not relevant, as their is nothing chaotic about a crush.
2. Hotel scandal, yes minorly evil, but considering the situaiton i would say barly so, i mean come one, after the no where somewhere else speech, i'd think he is as confused as anyone else
3. How is protecting friends and saving the world chatoic?


Sure. Haley, I'll admit, was an exaggeration, but Elan is plainly more lawful than Roy. Elan believes in an inherently lawful world, one driven by storybook convention and narrative structures. He believes in dramatic tension, in beginning-middle-end plots, in happily-ever-afters. He's not a lawful character, but he's more lawful than Roy.
Wow, Elan is lawful, and what, Belkar is good? Roy has shown a lawful attatude, while Elan has not. He believes in an inherently dramatic world, not a lawful one, that just means he is dumb, not lawful


Other things: A family oath is certainly lawful... but Roy was perfectly willing to forget about his oath once he decided his father was a jerk.
Wrong, because he didn't swear the oath. He didn't forget about the oath, he just didn't want to kill Xykon for the wrong reasons.

Not very lawful. He decided to save the world because it was the good thing to do, not because he lives an ordered existence; his actions there tended towards chaotic good. ("I don't care what the rules say, I'm going to do what's right.")
Apperntly according to you, all lawful does is sit around saying "We can't do this". Protecting the innocents is good, taking down a known threat to the world is lawful, as it saving the world.


What law does Roy follow, when it isn't convenient for him? What laws does he believe in? He seems to see the law as an inconvenience most of the time. He hasn't shown any code of honor, just a general sense of goodness (which, again, is perfectly normal for a chaotic good character.)
Roy follows a lawful code, being lawful good doesn't mean you have to follow every law in existence.


I'm not saying there's anything wrong with Roy being Neutral Good or Chaotic Good. I just don't see how he can claim to be lawful.
Apperently you don't see because your willingly blinding your self to you facts

I'll say it again, their is no basis for Roy to be Chatoic or evil in any of the the strips, even nuetral

The Number One reason given, above all others, for the disliking Roy is Roy's treatment of Elan. And you know what? The way that Roy treats Elan is wrong
i don't think his treatment of Elan is wrong, it keeps him in check
The only wrong thing is when he starts to leave him for the bandits, but he takes that back laters
from,
EE

[Green Bean]

Roy is probably the most well-rounded and complicated character in the entire saga. And since he has a lot of facets to his character, this gives a lot opportunities for people to find reasons to dislike him.

Let me give one example:

The Number One reason given, above all others, for the disliking Roy is Roy's treatment of Elan. And you know what? The way that Roy treats Elan is wrong.... And Roy knows it. So why does he do it? Well, IMO, it's because of his upbringing. If we look at the relationship between Roy and his father, we see an eerie parallel to the way that Roy treats Elan. Roy grew up in a household where complements were few and far between. Did something wrong or something that someone disapproved? You get a sarcastic comment blasted in your face.

So it is second nature for Roy to respond to things he doesn't like with sarcastic put downs. And yet Roy hated getting those from his father. So when he realizes what he is doing to Elan, he tries to stop himself from doing it. Does he always succeed? Nope. But they ain't called Personal Demons for nothing. :smallsmile: (Well, that and the fact that Elan would try just about anybody's patience :smalltongue: )

And that is, when it comes right down to it, the difference between Roy and someone like Miko or Eugene. Roy realizes that he has character flaws and tries not to act out on them. Roy is trying to make himself a better person to those around him. In short he is growing up as a person. Compare his courtship of Miko with that of Celia. Completely different. Compare his treatment of Elan before the Bandit Camp and after it. Is he still sarcastic toward Elan? Sure. But that's because he still is battling those demons. :smallwink: But he is nowhere near as dismissive of Elan as he used to be.

Another example would be how he tricked people into going on the Starmetal Quest vs letting them have a choice to go after Xykon when he found out they were still alive. In the first case, he selfishly tried to bend the party to his will. In the second case he was completely up front with all of the pluses and minuses of the quest.

In conclusion, like all of the characters, Roy has faults. And some posters react very badly to those faults. But at least Roy is trying to either A) change those faults or B) channel them into situations where they don't matter (i.e instead of always insulting Elan, he has progressed more to a level of Buddy Banter).

Huh. You know, I never thought of it like that before, but that sounds pretty reasonable. Roy is alot more like his father than he wants to be. But I think that the two differ in certain places. For instance, if it was Eugene travelling with the OotS, you wouldn't have to change the dialogue all that much for it to sound in character. Both Roy and Eugene are grumpy, sacrastic, and have low tolerance for messing around. But, if you look at what Roy did during his leadership, there's a huge difference. Would Roy's dad have gone back to rescue his team from the bandits, or taken an arrow for Elan? I doubt it. I think that while Roy is harsh and condescending at times, there's no question that he would put his life of the line of those under his command.

[cheesecake]

i've never really like roy. I've starting reading this comic every update around issue 200? He is too much of a downer. I'm all about Belkar. He is seriously so much like my PC halfling Cheesecake.

[Thoughtbot360]

I like snap though

But i see your point, Roy seems to be hated when he spoke out against Miko
from,
EE


If I don't beat you here and now, then soon this screwed-up nonsensical world won't exist anymore. You might not be out to destroy the physical planet, but living under the heel of a walking villain cliche' like you will destroy its soul.

There won't be any place left for introverted dwarves. Or androgynous elves. Or idiotic bards or greedy rogues.....or sexy sylphs. Or hell, even raging narcissistic paladins.

If you ask me, thats all I need to hear to say this: ROY IS THE HERO THAT MIKO PRETENDS TO BE WHEN SHE'S NOT BUSY BOSSING PEOPLE AROUND OR KILLING MESSED-UP-IN-THE-HEAD SORCERER GIRLS AND THEIR DISTAUGHT FATHERS JUST BECAUSE SHE FAILED TO MAKE A GATHER INFO CHECK (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0189.html) OR LEAPING-OF-THE-CLOUDS TO INSANE CONCLUSIONS! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html)

:miko: : WHY ARE YOU YELLING LIKE THAT?!

TB360: I DON'T KNOW!

:mitd: :WHEN THE F**K AM I GOING TO STEP OUT INTO THE LIGHT AND BE SEEN!?

TB360: Maybe we should move on before the caps lock button explodes from over use.

:mitd: : LOUD NOISES!

[jindra34]

If you ask me, thats all I need to hear to say this: ROY IS THE HERO THAT MIKO PRETENDS TO BE WHEN SHE'S NOT BUSY BOSSING PEOPLE AROUND OR KILLING MESSED-UP-IN-THE-HEAD SORCERER GIRLS AND THEIR DISTAUGHT FATHERS JUST BECAUSE SHE FAILED TO MAKE A GATHER INFO CHECK (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0189.html) OR LEAPING-OF-THE-CLOUDS TO INSANE CONCLUSIONS! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0371.html)

:miko: : WHY ARE YOU YELLING LIKE THAT?!

TB360: I DON'T KNOW!

:mitd: :WHEN THE F**K AM I GOING TO STEP OUT INTO THE LIGHT AND BE SEEN!?

TB360: Maybe we should move on before the caps lock button explodes from over use.

:mitd: : LOUD NOISES!

Too funny dying of laughter...

[Thoughtbot360]

I personally like ROy very much.
And I can't understand the thing that Roy is evil. He clearly is not, and I am not talking about alignments. Look at the party in which he travels. A bloodthirsty psychopath, a thieve, a wizard who cares more for his power than for his teammates, and a adult man with the mind of a 10 year old child. So who of them would you like to share a room with? When Belkar goes on another rampage, everyone is like "Woo! Go Belkar! Isn't he cute, in an evil way?". However, when Roy just says what he thinks, everyone is like "Shame on him, bossing people around and stuff."

Apart from that, he is the person necessary for plot advancement. Without him and his goals, the party would just loose itself in whatever activity they are enjoying at the moment.

Actually, yeah. If Roy dies, there will be no OOTS. He's the glue that holds them together. Seriously look at the party:

Durkon: He has bouts of cowardice (particularly around trees:smallbiggrin: ), and he wants to go home (which he can do anytime, but he doesn't know that because MIKO!!!:furious: lost the letter) but he apparently is the first to speak up about sticking to Roy after he rips up the contract (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0294.html) (which is another thing about Roy, if any of the OOTS were unhappy with Roy, they could just leave.) Besides his irrational fear of trees, Durkon is responsible and logical enough to replace Roy. But he can't, because he's too much of a weenie. But he is loyal to Roy and he'll stick to him to the end. Dwarves are kinda like dogs in that fashion.:smallamused:

Vaarsuvius: V also seems loyal to Roy, but I know not why. S/he gets along fine with Haley and Durkon, but regularly gets annoyed with Elan and Belkar (especially Belkar). S/he perhaps talks to much to communicate plans of action for the entire team to understand, as well. S/he would've killed (or tried to) Miko with Explosive Runes one time if Roy didn't stop him/her.

Incidentially, I'll bet V is a girl.

Shortest phrase ever uttered by V: Do not ask (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0421.html)

Elan: He looks up to Roy like a surrogate Big brother (or possibly father?) and just tags along. Besides, He's a bard. Without a party he's loss his greatest power: boosting other people. Bards may have a little bit of everything, but Elan's soloing career would likely be cut down as he makes a bad judgement call or breaks down into tears when a monster raises his voice at him (or just steals his ice cream), rendering Elan useless.

Haley: Well, Haley is just sticking around for the treasure. That, and the Elan.:wink:

Belkar: Belkar seriously should have either been exiled, killed (likely in self-defense vs. Belkar's attacks), or joined an evil party (Linear guild?) But Roy, inexplicably gave him a chance. I seriously think Belkar is Chaotic Evil. So we've got a LG regularly sticking up for a CE (and he is CE, of the highest order). I don't really know why this is so, but Belkar owes Roy for many things. Also, the MOJ forces Belkar to be relatively close to Roy in addition to other abilities that allow Roy to police Belkar with greater ease. But still, why is Belkar with Roy and why does Roy keep protecting him/trying to get him out of the Azure city prison (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0420.html)/etc. I'll never know. But there's little reason for Belkar to stick around if Roy dies.