Lance and Mount: How to?

[JohnDaBarr]

If one would like to create a mounted combat character (with a Lance but little range capability wouldn't be bad to have) what is the best way to proceed?

Since dungeons aren't really the best place for horses and other larger animals it might be best to play a small race and use something medium sized as a mount. Now what races are appropriate for this, also is there something that can be called a all-terrain mount, and besides the Fighter what other class can be useful for this build.

I am also guessing that something like this would require a lot of specific feats so advices there are welcome.

Starting lvl 3, point buy 32.

[Taelas]

Strongheart halfling is good. Small size, bonus feat. Make the mount a riding dog. Look up the Halfling Outrider from Complete Warrior. Base class should probably be Paladin.

[JohnDaBarr]

That sounds like a decent start, 2 lvl Fig dip for feats then possibly a Paladin, and then see if I can get a dire weasel for a mount.

[Taelas]

The Fighter dip isn't really necessary. You want Mounted Combat (1st), Ride-By Attack (bonus) and Spirited Charge (3rd).

[JohnDaBarr]

The Fighter dip isn't really necessary. You want Mounted Combat (1st), Ride-By Attack (bonus) and Spirited Charge (3rd).

Well Power Attack works on the Lance, it is a THW after all, and couple other feats can't be a bad thing.

[WeaselGuy]

Kobold Ranger 4 qualifies for a Dire Weasel as it's animal companion (Races of the Dragon). I played one in an earlier campaign, prestiging into Wild Plains Outrider and then Halfling Outrider (DM ruled that similarly flavored race/mount combos could qualify, i.e. Kobolds and Weasels, Goblins and Worgs, Gnomes and Badgers, etc). If you are interested, I can dig up the chart from a while back and show you his build.




Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Feats
Class Features


1st
Ranger
+1
+2
+2
+0
Weapon Finesse
Favored Enemy, Track, Wild Empathy


2nd
Ranger
+2
+3
+3
+0
Rapid Shot
Combat Style (Archery)


3rd
Ranger
+3
+3
+3
+1
Point Blank Shot
Endurance


4th
Kobold Ranger Substitution
+4
+4
+4
+1
-
Dire Weasel Companion, Kobold Ranger Spells


5th
Ranger
+5
+4
+4
+1
-
Favored Enemy


6th
Ranger
+6/+1
+5
+5
+2
Many Shot, Mounted Combat
Improved Combat Style (Archery)


7th
Wild Plains Outrider
+7/+2
+7
+5
+2
-
Animal Companion Bonus, Ride Bonus, Wild Plains Stalker


8th
Wild Plains Outrider
+8/+3
+8
+5
+2
-
Wild Plains Swiftness


9th
Wild Plains Outrider
+9/+4
+8
+6
+3
Mounted Archery
Wild Plains Offensive


10th
Halfling Outrider (Adapted for Kobolds)
+10/+5
+8
+8
+3
-
Animal Companion Bonus, Alertness, Ride Bonus


11th
Kobold Outrider
+11/+6/+1
+8
+9
+3
-
Defensive Riding


12th
Kobold Outrider
+12/+7/+2
+9
+9
+4
Ride-by-Attack
Unbroken Charge


13th
Kobold Outrider
+13/+8/+3
+9
+10
+4
-
Stand on Mount


14th
Kobold Outrider
+14/+9/+4
+9
+10
+4
-
Leap from the Saddle


15th
Kobold Outrider
+15/+10/+5
+10
+11
+5
Spirited Charge
-

[JohnDaBarr]

Kobold Ranger 4 qualifies for a Dire Weasel as it's animal companion (Races of the Dragon). I played one in an earlier campaign, prestiging into Wild Plains Outrider and then Halfling Outrider (DM ruled that similarly flavored race/mount combos could qualify, i.e. Kobolds and Weasels, Goblins and Worgs, Gnomes and Badgers, etc). If you are interested, I can dig up the chart from a while back and show you his build.




Level
Class
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Feats
Class Features


1st
Ranger
+1
+2
+2
+0
Weapon Finesse
Favored Enemy, Track, Wild Empathy


2nd
Ranger
+2
+3
+3
+0
Rapid Shot
Combat Style (Archery)


3rd
Ranger
+3
+3
+3
+1
Point Blank Shot
Endurance


4th
Kobold Ranger Substitution
+4
+4
+4
+1
-
Dire Weasel Companion, Kobold Ranger Spells


5th
Ranger
+5
+4
+4
+1
-
Favored Enemy


6th
Ranger
+6/+1
+5
+5
+2
Many Shot, Mounted Combat
Improved Combat Style (Archery)


7th
Wild Plains Outrider
+7/+2
+7
+5
+2
-
Animal Companion Bonus, Ride Bonus, Wild Plains Stalker


8th
Wild Plains Outrider
+8/+3
+8
+5
+2
-
Wild Plains Swiftness


9th
Wild Plains Outrider
+9/+4
+8
+6
+3
Mounted Archery
Wild Plains Offensive


10th
Halfling Outrider (Adapted for Kobolds)
+10/+5
+8
+8
+3
-
Animal Companion Bonus, Alertness, Ride Bonus


11th
Kobold Outrider
+11/+6/+1
+8
+9
+3
-
Defensive Riding


12th
Kobold Outrider
+12/+7/+2
+9
+9
+4
Ride-by-Attack
Unbroken Charge


13th
Kobold Outrider
+13/+8/+3
+9
+10
+4
-
Stand on Mount


14th
Kobold Outrider
+14/+9/+4
+9
+10
+4
-
Leap from the Saddle


15th
Kobold Outrider
+15/+10/+5
+10
+11
+5
Spirited Charge
-




Thx looks interesting, I do not necessary need dire weasel I in need something like it, something nimble and resilient with an ability to traverse obstacles more easily than standard mounts. I think that as I lvl-up I'll be changing mounts and in the late game (if it comes to that) I might end up with something with wings. Still starting with a riding dog seems ok for now, I'll look for upgrades along the way.

Also are normal charging feats usable on a mount, things like Reckless Charge and Shock trooper?

[DrMotives]

For versatile movement, you could try the riding lizard from the 3.0 Forgotten Realms book. Speed 40, climb 40, large animal. It's cross between a velociraptor and a gecko, just runs on walls.

[Jormengand]

If you want it to be really powerful, of course, there's always a reduce person'd (see if your DM will let you have a custom item) orc with lance, Spirited Charge and Headlong Rush, preferably on something that flies so that you can (a) go anywhere and (b) make dive attacks, meaning a total of 5* your normal weapon damage. Taking power attack by this point is probably approaching unnecessary, but your call.

[Twurps]

mount survivability is going to be an issue as always. As I see it, there are 2 options:
A: have it be expandable. get the cheapest horse/dog/weasel you can find. If/when it dies, buy another. I really dislike this method fluffwise so I'm maybe biassed here but there are a couple of issues with this method. First: Flying mounts become a hazard, rather than a perk. Second: cool mounts aren't cheep. So that leaves B.

B: Invest in your mount, make it (nearly) as survivable as you are. For this, you need something that scales in power with you. leaving you with an animal companion, or a mount. I like the mount variant better, but haven't crunshed the numbers on it.

If you do go the mount route (And halfling outrider is an excellent suggestion for it), mount progression becomes like caster level, in the sense that you want to lose as little as possible. Taking 2 levels of fighter costs you 2 levels of mount progression, rarely worth it.

Sidenotes: paladin 6 has a couple of good ACF's for mounts. Planar paladin from the planar handbook is nice.
paladin/halfling outrider is only 1 feat (devoted tracker), and 1 class level (beastmaster) away from a 'supermount' build which combines mount and animal companion progression.

edit: paladin 6, not 5 for the ACF

[thethird]

Strongheart halfling, paladin 5, beastmaster 1, halfling outrider 10, wild plains outrider 3, arglarondan griffon rider 1 is one of my favs.

[JohnDaBarr]

thx on all advice so far, I have some classes to look into now.

[Urpriest]

Also are normal charging feats usable on a mount, things like Reckless Charge and Shock trooper?

Probably, but it's ambiguous. The mounted combat rules state that when your mount charges you gain all of the benefits and drawbacks of a charge. This should include letting you use those feats, but some DMs say it doesn't.

Edit: Also, while Halfling Outrider is great if you want to make a build that stacks Mount and Animal Companion progression, if you're not doing that Cavalier is probably a better choice.

[SinsI]

Can you be the mount? Build your cohort to be the rider and yourself be a druid that transforms into a terrifying animal for him to ride.

[Jormengand]

If you were a higher level I'd suggest druid going heirophant to transfer your wild shape to your ally/cohort. Not sure there's a great way to do either transferring wild shape, or having a cohort, at starting level 3.

[ShurikVch]

Extremely compact variant: Jermlaine (or Mite from Dangerous Denizens) on Horrid Dire Rat:
Start it as Chaotic Evil Soulborn 2/Shaman - because shaman, unlike druid, can be chaotic evil

[Urpriest]

Extremely compact variant: Jermlaine (or Mite from Dangerous Denizens) on Horrid Dire Rat:
Start it as Chaotic Evil Soulborn 2/Shaman - because shaman, unlike druid, can be chaotic evil

You're not a Tibbit, so what's the Soulborn for?

[ShurikVch]

You're not a Tibbit, so what's the Soulborn for? For "immunity to any penalty, damage, or drain to your Strength" - arguably, it's include racial penalties too