Human Battlemaster build questions

[Omen Rune]

I'm wanting to make a character who is good with a bastard sword in both one hand and two hands. I think I want them to be a dirty-fighting CN battlemaster (Because I want maneuvers). What fighting style and maneuvers would I want to take? Please note that I don't want any of the maneuvers that require teamwork.:smallamused:

[Ralanr]

If you're focused on using the weapon one handed and two handed, I'd avoid fighting styles that focus on two handed or one handed weapon damage. That way you might not lean on one type more than the other.

[Chronos]

I'm wanting to make a character who is good with a bastard sword in both one hand and two hands.
I'm not sure there's a practical way to do this. If you're not wielding a shield, there's no reason to go one-handed, and if you are, you can't go two-handed. You'd have to be equipping or stowing your shield every time you wanted to change. And if you're going to the trouble to do that, why not change weapons, too, and use a greatsword instead of a longsword when you're two-handing?

[Brendanicus]

I've never played a Battlemaster, but Riposte looks fun. You can fluff it as being rather dodgy. Tripping Attack fits the bill for dirty, as most opponents won't see it coming.

I know you don't like teamwork, but Commander's Strike is extremely dirty if used with a Rogue.

[Omen Rune]

I'd like to have him use his off hand for other things a lot of the time. Maybe even for grappling and whatnot. I haven't read through those rules yet.

[Ralanr]

I'd like to have him use his off hand for other things a lot of the time. Maybe even for grappling and whatnot. I haven't read through those rules yet.

I'd go with the defense or the new maritime fighting style released in the new urban arcana (though ask your DM for it being allowed before commitment.). Defense gives you a flat AC bonus, which is not bad if you plan on making good use of the versatile ability on your weapon.

[ChubbyRain]

Mechanically you will be using a longsword.

Ask your DM if you can buy a "heavy" long sword.

Take the dueling fighting style (or mariner I guess) and then take the feat great weapon master or wstever it is called.

You can only use dueling when you are using the longsword one handed and you can only use GWM when using the longsword two handed.

1d8+str + 2 + grapple
Versus
1d10 + str (maybe +10)

Pick up the grappler feat too. Maybe tavern brawler and change your weapon to an improvised bastard sword :p

[Xetheral]

Pick up the grappler feat too. Maybe tavern brawler and change your weapon to an improvised bastard sword :p

I find it extremely frustrating that tavern brawler only works with (presumably) somewhat inferior versions of weapons. If you can grapple someone after stabbing them with a shiv, why can't you with a dagger?

Immersion, meet wreck.

[ChubbyRain]

I find it extremely frustrating that tavern brawler only works with (presumably) somewhat inferior versions of weapons. If you can grapple someone after stabbing them with a shiv, why can't you with a dagger?

Immersion, meet wreck.

Yeeeahhh.... I know what you mean.

Though technically improv weapons would do the same damage as a.weapon similar to them.

Metal pipe? Long sword w/ bludgeoning damage.

Ladder? Glaive w/ bludgeoning damage.

Goblin? Warhammer? Great club?

So you shouldn't have a lesser weapon, but it still makes no sense...

[Vogonjeltz]

I'm wanting to make a character who is good with a bastard sword in both one hand and two hands. I think I want them to be a dirty-fighting CN battlemaster (Because I want maneuvers). What fighting style and maneuvers would I want to take? Please note that I don't want any of the maneuvers that require teamwork.

If you don't want to favor either fighting style, I'd go with Archery (giving you a decent ranged option prior to closing) or Defense (the +1 AC option). There's also the Maritime one from the recent Unearthed Arcana article on the Wizards Web site.

Maneuvers: Trip, Disarm, Riposte, Parry. You might want Menacing Attack because it works on a Wisdom save, so some targets may be more susceptible than those that operate on strength saves. Grappling is a good choice, ask your DM about the additional combat options in the DMG (Climbing aboard larger enemies in particular is well suited to switching to a 1h weapon attack).

[Easy_Lee]

I could make a blade pact warlock or valor bard build that would be fine for this. But there's absolutely no reason to use versatile fighting on a fighter. There is no real feat or fighting style support for it. Dueling with a shield does superior damage and has superior AC to any variant of versatile longsword (bastard sword).

If you want to use it, I would ask your DM for a custom feat and fighting style that make it worth it. Some ideas:

Versatile fighting style - deal one more damage and reroll 1s on weapon dice when wielding a versatile weapon
Feat: Versatile Mastery - you may treat versatile weapons as having the finesse property. When you make a one-handed attack with a versatile weapon, you have advantage on the next two-handed attack made with the same weapon.

[Shining Wrath]

Riposte plus Goading Attack. Make them attack you, get counter attacks. But carry a shield and use a long sword, as you'll be soaking attacks with this plan.

[Mandragola]

Riposte is excellent - parry less so. It doesn't really scale.

Tricks that knock people over are fun because then you get advantage against them, and it feels like the sort of thing a dirty fighter would do.

Then take some rogue levels, probably going with assassin. Fighter 6 assassin 3 is pretty nasty. You'd also get to take plenty of feats - at least eventually.

[Jamesps]

The best build to make that I can think of with this style would actually be a rogue Thief. You've got all sorts of things to do with your off hand... and by all sorts I mean you can cover the Earth in ball bearings!

They don't have skill in shields, so failing to use one won't gimp you at all. They defininetly fight dirty. Use a sabre (reworked rapier) in however many hands you have available that round.

Of course you wouldn't have your battle master feats and your dirty fighting would be more gadget-dependent than weapon skill, so it might not really be what you're looking for.

[Jamesps]

Riposte is excellent - parry less so. It doesn't really scale.


Riposte and parry both scale pretty much the same. They both have an effect dependent on your stat plus your superiority die. Riposte also adds your weapon damage, but that doesn't usually scale.

I'd say riposte is a bit better in a vacuum, but the amount it's better stays the same regardless of level.

[Vogonjeltz]

Riposte is excellent - parry less so. It doesn't really scale.

Tricks that knock people over are fun because then you get advantage against them, and it feels like the sort of thing a dirty fighter would do.

Then take some rogue levels, probably going with assassin. Fighter 6 assassin 3 is pretty nasty. You'd also get to take plenty of feats - at least eventually.

Which is better really all depends on if you get hit or not. Riposte is better if you get whiffed, Parry is better if you're getting pounded.

[Easy_Lee]

Which is better really all depends on if you get hit or not. Riposte is better if you get whiffed, Parry is better if you're getting pounded.

I personally take issue with parry due to it basically accomplishing the same thing as defensive duelist but costing a resource.

[Vogonjeltz]

I personally take issue with parry due to it basically accomplishing the same thing as defensive duelist but costing a resource.

Eh defensive duelist requires a feat slot, and a finesse weapon, and it doesn't do mitigation, but rather all or nothing. Which is its own virtue I suppose.

[ChubbyRain]

Eh defensive duelist requires a feat slot, and a finesse weapon, and it doesn't do mitigation, but rather all or nothing. Which is its own virtue I suppose.

Defensive duelist is also at-will (reaction) while parry is not. You take away from your other abilities when you use it.

[Mandragola]

On reflection the two fighters I've seen with parry and riposte were both strength-based and one of them had no dex bonus. So their ripostes got stronger as they got stronger, but their parries didn't. Parry is better for dex-based fighters, for obvious reasons.

The trouble with defensive duelist is that it only works against 10% of attacks at levels 1-4. That does increase as your proficiency bonus goes up. At least parry is always on, while you have dice to use. At higher levels defensive duelist is pretty great, as you will quite often entirely negate an attack. Those attacks will tend to hit for very large amounts of damage - against which parry wouldn't help all that much.

[Vogonjeltz]

Defensive duelist is also at-will (reaction) while parry is not. You take away from your other abilities when you use it.

True if you mean it's an opportunity cost for using other maneuvers later before a short rest, but despite that limitation, getting access to it doesn't cost a feat (+2 ASI), so that's a pretty big deal.


On reflection the two fighters I've seen with parry and riposte were both strength-based and one of them had no dex bonus. So their ripostes got stronger as they got stronger, but their parries didn't. Parry is better for dex-based fighters, for obvious reasons.

The trouble with defensive duelist is that it only works against 10% of attacks at levels 1-4. That does increase as your proficiency bonus goes up. At least parry is always on, while you have dice to use. At higher levels defensive duelist is pretty great, as you will quite often entirely negate an attack. Those attacks will tend to hit for very large amounts of damage - against which parry wouldn't help all that much.

Parry would typically counter any ability score and effectively remove 1 damage die (possibly 2 if we're talking d6s)

[Jamesps]

On reflection the two fighters I've seen with parry and riposte were both strength-based and one of them had no dex bonus. So their ripostes got stronger as they got stronger, but their parries didn't. Parry is better for dex-based fighters, for obvious reasons.

The trouble with defensive duelist is that it only works against 10% of attacks at levels 1-4. That does increase as your proficiency bonus goes up. At least parry is always on, while you have dice to use. At higher levels defensive duelist is pretty great, as you will quite often entirely negate an attack. Those attacks will tend to hit for very large amounts of damage - against which parry wouldn't help all that much.

Decreasing by 10% can be pretty significant if it started at say 20%. That's going from 20%-10%, which is a drastic increase in your staying power.

The higher your AC the greater the payoff for it. Of course as you progress in levels, you'll be subject to more and more attacks (either from more monsters or monsters with multiple attacks) which will decrease its effectiveness.

[Xetheral]

Decreasing by 10% can be pretty significant if it started at say 20%. That's going from 20%-10%, which is a drastic increase in your staying power.

The higher your AC the greater the payoff for it. Of course as you progress in levels, you'll be subject to more and more attacks (either from more monsters or monsters with multiple attacks) which will decrease its effectiveness.

The proportional change in chance to hit isn't likely to matter as much as the absolute change in chance to hit, except in extremely long battles or weird edge cases. Consider:

If the enemy can only hit you on a roll of 17+, chances are you vastly outclass it, and halving the damage you take doesn't drastically increase your staying power because you don't need any stating power. (The number of hit points saved, and thus available for future combats, is better represented by the absolute change in chance to hit, and the absolute damage prevented: the value of taking 5 instead of 6 damage is virtually identical to the value of taking 1 instead of 2 damage.) The only time the proportional change in chance to hit in this case will matter is when you're either fighting something extremely hard to kill (long combat) or something that does immense damage despite having very little hope of hitting you (edge case).