Zabuza themed build

[j_spencer93]

For my player's game of no full-casters I want to make an NPC similar to Zabuza. Uses a greatsword or fullblade, able to create mist to conceal himself, high in stealth. Wouldn't mind some other abilities dealing with water or something but not that important.

However, I fail to find something that can do this. Originally I thought Psychic warrior but no such luck with its powers.

[EugeneVoid]

I'm not so sure, but the mist is by far the most important thing for zabuza (next to the huge damage sword)
and of course the water ninjutsu.

Maybe you could go to the other thread that has the guy building characters for peeps and input your ideas.

Large Fullblade + monkey grip? (huge trap, as we all know, but Zabuza's blade IS HUGE)

[Extra Anchovies]

Warlock 1 for Enveloping Mist or Miasmic Cloud gives at-will fog effects, and a lot of other warlock invocations give some very (Naruto) ninja-ish powers (walking on walls, talking to animals, teleportation, etc). If you're open to homebrew, here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387992-Martial-Warlock-(Variant)) a combat-focused adaptation of the Warlock that might be able to emulate him well. Either that or a ToB class with a Warlock dip (two levels of Warlock can get you one of the fog abilities and a swim speed).


Large Fullblade + monkey grip? (huge trap, as we all know, but Zabuza's blade IS HUGE)

Why not just use a Greatsword and fluff it as being really big? Spending a feat for EWP (Fullblade) and a feat for Monkey Grip means you just invested two feats for a whopping +2 average damage (and a -2 to hit). That isn't worth it on any character, ever.

[EugeneVoid]

Why not just use a Greatsword and fluff it as being really big? Spending a feat for EWP (Fullblade) and a feat for Monkey Grip means you just invested two feats for a whopping +2 average damage (and a -2 to hit). That isn't worth it on any character, ever.

Which is why I said it was a trap. You can always take no-relevant-penalty-flaws to get your ****hueg sword. I don't think any DM would object to that.

[ShurikVch]

May I suggest one thing?
Try to get somehow sword-shaped creature as a cohort.
(Say, Warforged, polymorphed into animated sword.)
Now, add in Stoneboned template to it.
This template gives Powerful Build - now your sword would look like (and damage like) one category larger, but you still can wield it without penalty for improperly-sized weapon.
Add in Strongarm Bracers, and you may make your sword cohort full two size category larger than you!

Also, Dragon #354 have article "Elements of Surprise". It's elemental ACFs for Ninja. Water-themed ACF named "Deceptive Mist".

[Feint's End]

Warlock 1 for Enveloping Mist or Miasmic Cloud gives at-will fog effects, and a lot of other warlock invocations give some very (Naruto) ninja-ish powers (walking on walls, talking to animals, teleportation, etc). If you're open to homebrew, here's (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387992-Martial-Warlock-(Variant)) a combat-focused adaptation of the Warlock that might be able to emulate him well. Either that or a ToB class with a Warlock dip (two levels of Warlock can get you one of the fog abilities and a swim speed).



Why not just use a Greatsword and fluff it as being really big? Spending a feat for EWP (Fullblade) and a feat for Monkey Grip means you just invested two feats for a whopping +2 average damage (and a -2 to hit). That isn't worth it on any character, ever.

Actually it's more like +6.5 average damage and -2 to hit for 2 feats which isn't all that great either but better than you give it credit for. And you really have a freaking big sword instead of just pretending to have one.

[Flickerdart]

What you want is a drow with a 1-level dip in Warlock for at-will Darkness (which you can refluff as mist if you want). Then go wild on the feats - Blend Into Shadows lets you hide inside your darkness even while being observed, while Gift of the Spider Queen gives you a bunch of ninja tricks (such as blinding your foes while turning invisible, or snuffing out torches). There are a few more things you can do for more non-Darkness SLA uses so you can fire off more sweet tricks.

The water attacks (that giant dragon thing, water clones, and the water prison) are going to be a little tougher, though.

[j_spencer93]

Thinking Warlock might work the best, actually a dip into it. It actually gives me a mist ability and some other things that are nice. This is a lot harder to make then I thought

[Flickerdart]

Some shadowpouncing would also work well - 'port in, full attack the enemy, and then use your remaining move action to run away into the mist so they can't retaliate.

[j_spencer93]

Ya that would be awesome. That is mainly what I am wanting, someone to create a field of mist, stealth through it and attack then retreat.

Also, after reading I really want to use the ninja's deceptive mist. Anyone able to make a decent build out of it???

[Extra Anchovies]

Actually it's more like +6.5 average damage and -2 to hit for 2 feats which isn't all that great either but better than you give it credit for. And you really have a freaking big sword instead of just pretending to have one.

Right, forgot the fullblade was Large. Thanks for catching that.

[icefractal]

If you don't mind a little cheese, make it a Heavy Fullblade (needs EWP, but hey, Fullblade already needs that), which would be 3d8, 4d8 with Monkey Grip.

Then be a Goliath (he has shark teeth, he's not necessarily pure human), and you'll be doing 6d8. Not amazingly powerful, but it's kind of fun to be throwing piles of dice around.

As for attacking through mist:
* Touchsight, fi going PsyWar.
* Blindfold of True Darkness.
* If using Pathfinder stuff, there are a bunch of "see through smoke and mist" abilities.

[Extra Anchovies]

If you don't mind a little cheese, make it a Heavy Fullblade (needs EWP, but hey, Fullblade already needs that), which would be 3d8, 4d8 with Monkey Grip.

So the heavy fullblade is the fullblade but with more damage? Is there some sort of downside (like the Warmace's -1 AC)?

Also, while I'm at it, what's the source for each of those weapons?

[icefractal]

So the heavy fullblade is the fullblade but with more damage? Is there some sort of downside (like the Warmace's -1 AC)?

Also, while I'm at it, what's the source for each of those weapons?Heavy is from ... Arms and Equipment Guide, I think. The downside is that it becomes an Exotic weapon. So for weapons that are already exotic, free damage (well, it costs more, but we're talking about three digits, no big deal)

[Extra Anchovies]

Heavy is from ... Arms and Equipment Guide, I think. The downside is that it becomes an Exotic weapon. So for weapons that are already exotic, free damage (well, it costs more, but we're talking about three digits, no big deal)

So the fullblade isn't exotic, then? I'm confused now.

[icefractal]

So the fullblade isn't exotic, then? I'm confused now.It is exotic, that's why making it Heavy is free cheese on top. There is no "double exotic" category, so the thing that would normally be the downside has no effect.

[Extra Anchovies]

It is exotic, that's why making it Heavy is free cheese on top. There is no "double exotic" category, so the thing that would normally be the downside has no effect.

Is "heavy" a weapon template? Or did they just print the heavy fullblade in A&EG without realizing there was already a fullblade in a different book?

(also, just knowing the source for standard fullblade would be nice)

[PraxisVetli]

Is "heavy" a weapon template? Or did they just print the heavy fullblade in A&EG without realizing there was already a fullblade in a different book?

(also, just knowing the source for standard fullblade would be nice)

Heavy likely is referring to its composition, namely something denser than default steel.
I wanna say its all in Magic of Faerun, but away from books atm.

[OracleofWuffing]

I didn't find anything in A&EG about making heavy weapons, but yeah, it's in Magic of Faerun page 179 as a sidebar. Yeah, it's a template kind of thing. I don't actually know if it works in this instance, because the text and table don't have an increased damage value for anything above 1d12 (which is just increased to 2d8, where you're already at). I mean, easy enough to extrapolate, but it doesn't say you're allowed to extrapolate.

[Izmister]

I don't know about the sword, but the water domain feat from complete divinelets you spawn a water elemental once per day, but you can spend another feat to get another use. The size scales with the PC level. I thought this could be a good water clone substitute. Or the Trickery domain from the same book could work too, is an actual clone and can do other tasks.

[Flickerdart]

I don't know about the sword, but the water domain feat from complete divinelets you spawn a water elemental once per day, but you can spend another feat to get another use. The size scales with the PC level. I thought this could be a good water clone substitute. Or the Trickery domain from the same book could work too, is an actual clone and can do other tasks.
Oh, domains are not a bad idea - though you're thinking of Water Devotion from CChamp, not any CDiv feat.

Divine Crusader with the Ocean domain would work - Elemental Swarm summons elementals, Maelstrom traps creatures in a water prison, and Freezing Sphere is your go-to damage move. Unfortunately, there's a bunch of ice stuff in there, which Zabuza doesn't do. Water Domain has the same problem, but also includes Acid Fog on top of that.

Still, Divine Crusader/Contemplative (for both Ocean and Water domains) sets Zabuza up fairly decently.

[j_spencer93]

Uh this NPC will be fighting a group of melee PCs so try to stay away from magic for the most part. I do not want my player's to call foul if they lose.

Honestly, I want to use the Water Ninja variant from dragon magazine. it handles the mist part, and it doesn't hinder the user. Allows you to poison the mist, and later on counts as solid fog as well. Only problem is that's like 16 (0r 18 idr) levels of ninja. Not the greatest or even that interesting besides the mist abilities.

I guess mainly looking for feats to make the character a little better or more versatile. Got away from the Zabuza build slightly, and want to focus mainly in the mist part.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I'll just leave this here



Momochi Zabuza - Human Ranger1/Wilder4/Slayer7/Psychic Assassin8

Feats: Track (Ranger1), Blind-Fight (Human), Monkey Grip* (1), Guerilla Warrior** (3), Mental Leap (6), Expanded Knowledge: Energy Missile (9), Expanded Knowledge: Greater Concealing Amorpha (12), Expanded Knowledge: Energy Cone (15), Ability Focus: Death Attack (18)

*from Complete Warrior **from Heroes of Battle

Powers:
1st - Control Light, Entangling Ectoplasm
2nd - Body Equilibrium, Energy Missile, Throw Ectoform*
3rd - Greater Concealing Amorpha, Energy Cone
4th - Telekinetic Manuver

*from Hyperconscious

Zabuza's Signature Abilities

Suiton Jutsu - Water Element Techniques: As a rogue Kiri nin Zabuza excels in use of water element attacks (most of which were borrowed by Hatake Kakashi when the two fought). They are represented as follows:
Suiryuudan no Jutsu - Water Dragon Blast Technique: Energy Missile (Cold)
Daibakufu no Jutsu - Grand Waterfall Technique: Energy Cone (Cold)
Suirou no Jutsu - Water Prison Technique: Entangling Ectoplasm and Telekinetic Manuver (Grapple)
Kirigakure no Jutsu – Mist Concealment Technique: Zabuza is renowned for his mastery of the Kiri village's signature technique, which summons up a fog to disappear into. This ability is represented by the powers Greater Concealing Amorpha, and Control Light, along with the Psychic Assassin's Hide in Plain Sight class feature. In conjunction, Zabuza can use these to become practically invisible.
Mizu Bunshin no Jutsu – Water Clone Technique: Zabuza can form clones out of water to distract and attack with. This is represented by the power Throw Ectoform.

Other Abilities:
Master of the Silent Kill - Zabuza is infamous for his ability to dispatch enemies in utter quiet and darkness. To represent this, he has the feats Guerilla Warrior, Blind-Fight, and Ability Focus to improve the Psychic Assassin's Death Attack class feature.
Mental Leap + Body Equilibrium - I haven't seen Zabuza run up walls, but I've seen him walk on water (tree running won't be a problem with Body Equilibrium either).
Monkey Grip - That's one huge sword, man.


Source (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=ftvma5698ntnkc3oldh6hvirr4&topic=6002.msg198342#msg198342)

[j_spencer93]

that may work, except got a feeling players will call foul. Noncaster group fighting a psionic seems the same as fighting a mage.

[Susano-wo]

Just gonna say: a fullblade is 1.5ft longer than a greatsword. That's already plenty for Zabuza's sword

Sorry for the huge size >.>

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11117/111174760/4544523-4421654359-uns_g.png

[j_spencer93]

ya the full blade is want i am going with.
Trying to create a good melee build now using the water ninja for the mist and idk what else. Think I may only use that class with some feats spend for maneuvers, idk.