Eliminating Experience Points

[prufock]

I've been in conversation with my group this past week about eliminating experience points from D&D. We have several reasons for this, the main one being that one player in particular dislikes level disparity in the party. I can't disagree to any real extent, so we're looking at a "level when the DM says so" option, and getting rid of XP as a resource. This has several consequences, some of which are easier to handle than others.

How does the DM, other than complete fiat, increase levels? I've been looking at a "standard encounter" (ie one that is equal to party level) equivalencies. On average, 13 1/3 standard encounters equal a level gain, and an encounter 2 levels higher is worth double, etc.

I haven't used XP penalties for multiclassing... ever, so that's handled.

Energy drain never equals real level loss. Similar to PF, it's a broad-strokes penalty that you can regain through magic or saves every day.

Returning from the dead, other than the spell costs, would possibly replace level loss with the 2 points of con reduction. Thoughts on this?

Magic items: I'm considering craft points or eliminating it altogether as per PF.

XP spell components: Either removed wholesale, or replaced with increased wealth cost. I don't really like either option, though.

Level adjustment: While I'm fine with "level" meaning "ECL", I'm wondering how to incorporate buyoff. Should it be removed as an option? Should it be automatic as you increase in levels? Should I use the E6 option of lower point buys? Those only go to +4 LA, so what would I do beyond that?

Thanks for any help or ideas.

[Crake]

For most of your points you can steal straight from pathfinder. Death results in "permanent negative levels" which can be removed by time/magic etc etc, magic item crafting just straight up drops the xp costs, spells with xp costs now instead have material costs equal to 5x xp costs.

Only one would be level adjustment, which is KINDA covered by pathfinder. They have monstrous characters instead gain two class levels over a single character level, which you could incorporate during the normal buyoff levels. So LA+1 would gain 2 levels from ECL2-3, ending up level 3 when everyone else is, and LA2 would get 2 levels from ECL 9-10 (ending up level 9 while everyone else is level 10), and ECL 11-12 (ending up level 12 when everyone else is also 12), etc

Personally though, I would make everyone have the same LA, if any.

[heavyfuel]

Don't overthink it, just say the players level up when you feel like it. If the ECL between players is different, just delay the new level for a couple encounters. The DMG p.39 also has the Free-Form Experience variant, though it doesn't eliminate XP completely.

[Almarck]

As for the LA buy off, I think you can probably say that at certain levels, LA is reduced as the bonuses for the player's monster race get less impressive. Stagger it a bit for LA's bigger than 1, but the buy off happens automatiically at predefined points.

I would recomend asking how your players about when the buyoffsshould proc.



As for the spell components, I have seriously considered at one point to give characters a "disposable budget" for single use items and the like. Basically a "free" resource pool that scales by level and determines how much "Extra" junk a player might spend for misc items that only have a single use. Exists only to help balance WBL, but maybe such a pool would be much better in your opinion for spellcasters who want to cast spells that cost exp.

[martixy]

I've played MOST of my campaigns without XP.

Frankly, I think it is much better. But it would only work for campaigns where the party sticks together most of the time.

Advancement is by DM fiat, and there absolutely nothing wrong with that!

Any XP cost is paid only via diamonds and in a 5-1 ratio(5 gp worth of diamonds for every XP point).

I saves everyone so much time and headaches in the long run. You don't worry about level disparity, you don't worry about chasing the encounters for the XP, the DM doesn't worry about catering a party of disparate levels, or optimized characters mucking it up for the less fortunate.

[torrasque666]

My group has a solution. We use a "pool" of XP for leveling. So while the XP is divided among us for overcoming a challenge, it all goes to the same "pool". I'll use our current situation as an example. Currently my group is sitting at 60,000 XP. When our DM awards us the XP for the next encounter, we'll divide it among ourselves as normal, say 15,000/5 or 3,000 each. This brings the pool up to 63,000.

For item crafting, we just upped the price by 5/1 XP, but we get a lot of gold so it doesn't tend to affect us a lot.

Character death.... we usually don't bother with resurrection, though we might for one of the PCs as he is kind of attached to his character.

LA Buy-off is automatic. So if I have LA+2 on a character, when we hit level 8 I'll automatically get 1 LA knocked off and have 7 HD +1 LA. And again when we hit level 10 and I have 9 HD.

Spell components are just converted into gold like crafting.

[Sacrieur]

I keep all my party together with the same XP. I've talked to this about them and about how it's the one thing I'll fiat because I want to keep everyone on the same page.

BUT, that doesn't mean I won't create a level disparity if I don't think they've earned the XP the rest of the party got. XP really serves as a way of determining the rate at which the party levels up together.

Right now, my system is that everyone who shows up (or has an excused absence) receives 5% of their current XP at the end of the session as bonus XP. They also all receive a cut from monster XP. If they split the party I would still divide up the XP between all the members of the group. I reward more effort with extra goodies like feats and traits.

[Cruiser1]

I've been in conversation with my group this past week about eliminating experience points from D&D. Thanks for any help or ideas.
No XP can work, even taking into account character death, at least if a group is cooperative. Here's another thread where the idea has been discussed: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258335-Linked-Party-XP

[Galvin]

My concern would be that the game would seem less engaging with no way to measure their progress, their leveling experience being based on the storytelling whims of the Dungeon Master.

A no-XP system would remove the excitement that a player feels when they are almost to the next level, thinking "I only need one more encounter to level and then I get a new feat/spell level/class ability" There's excitement in gaining a lot of XP, and PCs have their eyes on the prize. A non-story encounter without level gain could feel empty and without meaning.

There could also be intense fluctuations in the leveling speed of the PCs. The PCs might spend several sessions (potentially months in real life) working through a single dungeon or quest hook in which everything is balanced to the same power level, and thus spend a very long amount of time without the rush of leveling up. In contrast players could suddenly advance two levels in a session if their DM needs them to advance quickly to be able to stand up to a boss or critical story element or something.

In conclusion, I think that Experience Points are critical to make D&D an engaging game for players, and advancement simply when the story is read for them to advance, and not when they have earned it via blood, sweat, and tears, would make the game a less engaging experience for most players.

[Crazysaneman]

I don't know if it's what you're looking for, but in the game I run for my group we have a gentlemens agreement that it's up to the DM to decide when they level. That being said, I like some of the general ideas about xp and leveling from Anima. Basically they get rewarded for good RP and in character play, plot points completed that drive the story forward, difficult encounters overcome (not killed, but overcome... not every encounter has to be a murderhobo party), and NPC relationship development.

Works for us, hope it helps you!