Vampire at level 1 party

[Shadowscale]

Is it fair to throw a vampire sleeping in its coffin at a group of 6 lvl 1 pcs? I really hope they'd figure out a way to stop it without fighting if etc

[Stuvius]

The only comment I would make here is, PCs rarely do what you expect them to. As you stated you would think they would avoid it or stop it without actually squaring off with it. In my experience that is when someone usually goes 'Leeeeeeroy Jenkins!' :) and decides to do something crazy. I would just assure you have a contingency to help them out if one or more of the party does not approach this in the way you intended.

[Inevitability]

There are three possible outcomes:

-The PC's know how to handle this. They send their sneakiest person to creep up to the coffin, open it, and stake the vampire. In doing so, they gain XP as well as treasure for an encounter several levels above their ECL.

-The party ignores the vampire and moves on. Not only is this unlikely, it is also boring. You essentially wasted time on creating and describing a situation no one ended up interacting with.

-The party does something stupid, such as attacking the vampire. At best, it'll turn into a poorly-justified quest (do my chores and I'll let you live!). At worst, it'll end in a TPK.


My suggestion? Save true vampires for when they're stronger and have them fight a buffed Ghoul or something.

[Red Fel]

There are three possible outcomes:

Pretty much this. In any event, it's a non-adventure - either one PC rolls a bunch of dice and stakes the guy, or the party avoids it completely, or the guy steamrolls the party, as Dire Stirge said. No matter which outcome, it's not a fun encounter, because there's barely anything to it.

Vampires aren't the most powerful creatures in the manual, but pretty much anything can be lethal at first level, Vampires moreso. Don't even bother with it until they can handle it.

Also, piece of advice: If your idea for the story includes the words "I really hope that the players..." Stop. Anything that relies on the players to do something - anything - will fail. Not just might, will. Because despite the fact that any rational person can only see a limited number of outcomes or possibilities, I guarantee you that your players will come up with one you didn't foresee. And if you're relying on them to do something, you can be sure that they will do just about anything but that.

So don't have any plans that rely on a particular action by the players. Just execute the story, and let them react how they wish.

[Uncle Pine]

Pretty much everything that had to be said has already been. Also, remember that vampires can inflict negative levels and any 1st level PC with a single negative level won't just die. He will die horribly because all his life force has been drained and turn into a Wight. Which is a CR 3 creature.

By the way:

If your idea for the story includes the words "I really hope that the players..." Stop. Anything that relies on the players to do something - anything - will fail. Not just might, will. Because despite the fact that any rational person can only see a limited number of outcomes or possibilities, I guarantee you that your players will come up with one you didn't foresee. And if you're relying on them to do something, you can be sure that they will do just about anything but that.

Can I sig this? It reminded me of that time when I hoped that the player wouldn't kill the 1st level Expert librarian inside the big mountain they were exploring (the same 1st level Expert librarian who was the best and only friend of the ancient iron dragon several levels higher than them that was actually supposed to be a quest giver)... Eh, good times. I learned a lot from the way that campaign ended.

[Urpriest]

Yeah, throwing a vampire "at" a level 1 party isn't going to work in any sensible way.

That said, having the party interact with a vampire NPC is potentially workable, depending on the party's outlook.

[Red Fel]

Can I sig this? It reminded me of that time when I hoped that the player wouldn't kill the 1st level Expert librarian inside the big mountain they were exploring (the same 1st level Expert librarian who was the best and only friend of the ancient iron dragon several levels higher than them that was actually supposed to be a quest giver)... Eh, good times. I learned a lot from the way that campaign ended.

Sig away. Apparently I have that effect. :smallamused:


That said, having the party interact with a vampire NPC is potentially workable, depending on the party's outlook.

This, but with one fairly major caveat: Never place an NPC in front of the PCs if you don't want them to attempt to murder it at some point. I'm not saying that the PCs will attempt to kill every NPC, but that they can attempt to kill any NPC, and that quite often the one they target will be the one you really, really didn't want or expect them to.

If your players are smart, they'll realize that a Vampire is way above their pay grade; meeting a non-hostile one can work, in that context, because they probably won't do something to tick him off. But that's an if, and as a DM, I try to avoid those when possible.

[Baroknik]

Pretty much everything that had to be said has already been. Also, remember that vampires can inflict negative levels and any 1st level PC with a single negative level won't just die. He will die horribly because all his life force has been drained and turn into a Wight. Which is a CR 3 creature.

By the way:


Can I sig this? It reminded me of that time when I hoped that the player wouldn't kill the 1st level Expert librarian inside the big mountain they were exploring (the same 1st level Expert librarian who was the best and only friend of the ancient iron dragon several levels higher than them that was actually supposed to be a quest giver)... Eh, good times. I learned a lot from the way that campaign ended.

Actually, a vampire spawn in this case. It also applies to level 2 characters, as a vampire's slam attack grants 2 negative levels.

[Th3N3xtGuy]

Is it fair to throw a vampire sleeping in its coffin at a group of 6 lvl 1 pcs? I really hope they'd figure out a way to stop it without fighting if etc

How about they bump into a level 10 professional vampire hunter or something so you have a backup plan and he can give advice on how to pacify such a creature without alerting it.

[Bronk]

There are three possible outcomes:

-The PC's know how to handle this. They send their sneakiest person to creep up to the coffin, open it, and stake the vampire. In doing so, they gain XP as well as treasure for an encounter several levels above their ECL.

-The party ignores the vampire and moves on. Not only is this unlikely, it is also boring. You essentially wasted time on creating and describing a situation no one ended up interacting with.

-The party does something stupid, such as attacking the vampire. At best, it'll turn into a poorly-justified quest (do my chores and I'll let you live!). At worst, it'll end in a TPK.


My suggestion? Save true vampires for when they're stronger and have them fight a buffed Ghoul or something.

You know, that first option isn't so bad... staking the vamp without doing anything else will only put it in suspended animation, and it can be a recurring villain later on. Maybe it'll want its stuff back.

[JyP]

Is it fair to throw a vampire sleeping in its coffin at a group of 6 lvl 1 pcs? I really hope they'd figure out a way to stop it without fighting if etc
Depends on the vampire. If you are talking about a necromancer from 300 years ago which had time to learn all vampire powers (from vampire template), they have no chance.

If you are talking about a clumsy peasant which just got bitten and doesn't know much (maybe using savage progression vampire rules in WotC archives), this is much more doable.

[Urpriest]

Depends on the vampire. If you are talking about a necromancer from 300 years ago which had time to learn all vampire powers (from vampire template), they have no chance.

If you are talking about a clumsy peasant which just got bitten and doesn't know much (maybe using savage progression vampire rules in WotC archives), this is much more doable.

Vampires have to be at minimum 5th level, though, otherwise they rise as Vampire Spawn.

[Flickerdart]

Vampires have to be at minimum 5th level, though, otherwise they rise as Vampire Spawn.
Unless they are turned by a Vampire Lord, who can make anyone into a vampire.

For the vampire encounter itself, how about something like this:
The party encounters an ornate coffin being carried or guarded dutifully by six undead servants (human zombies led by a ghoul, perhaps). The PCs, upon bumping off the guards, are left with the vampire, assuming that they can pick the coffin open. The vampire should have some magic items on him or something (as loot for the zombie encounter) which the PCs can attempt to loot. If they wake up the vampire (either in the fight or while graverobbing him) don't have him be belligerent. After all, he is an immortal being and they are novices, so why should he be overly bothered? They didn't destroy anything important, just some meat puppets. If the vampire was travelling, he might ask the PCs to take his coffin to where he was going now that they've killed his servants.

If the PCs are canny enough to try and stake him, they'll be canny enough to have holy symbols or garlic. This should repel the vampire, and he will escape while vowing revenge. Have him come back in a few levels.

[Sheogoroth]

Do it.

It's always fun to start a campaign off with a Darwinian opportunity. And how interesting would it be if they actually managed to kill it and one of them dies to the energy drain? All of a sudden you've got the horrible secret of the group- talk about story development? Who would've seen that coming?

Besides, what's the worst that could happen? :smallbiggrin:

[CGNefarious]

Besides, what's the worst that could happen? :smallbiggrin:

I like the way this guy thinks.