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McClintock
2015-05-11, 12:41 PM
Sorry if this has been asked before, I tried searching for it and could not find a straight answer. Animal growth does not specifically say that it only works on the animal subtype, nor that it does not work on any other subtype. it just says animals. Is there a definitive answer somewhere that I can use as a resource to allow/disallow for use on creatures that look and act like animals, but are not animals(type)?

ex: Celestial (animal of choice)

Segev
2015-05-11, 12:43 PM
"Animal" is a type, and is therefore a defined keyword in D&D 3e, particularly when referring to creatures. The RAW is explicit, here: it works on animals. Just as it wouldn't have to say "creatures of the Outsider type," but can instead just say "outsiders" if it wishes to refer to outsiders, specifically, as a type.

ace rooster
2015-05-11, 02:27 PM
"Animal" is a type, and is therefore a defined keyword in D&D 3e, particularly when referring to creatures. The RAW is explicit, here: it works on animals. Just as it wouldn't have to say "creatures of the Outsider type," but can instead just say "outsiders" if it wishes to refer to outsiders, specifically, as a type.

Worth adding is that creatures of the animal type explicitly have an int of 1 or 2, so if you cast fox's cunning on one it ceases to be an animal for the duration. What it becomes is not covered, but I would guess a magical beast, though without changing stats.

McClintock
2015-05-11, 03:55 PM
Thank you for the clarification. Since that is the case, what is the point of having Animal Growth on the SOrc/Wiz list if everything they can summon is either celestial or fiendish? So you can make normal animals, you have no control over, bigger and stronger? Seems odd to me.

Necroticplague
2015-05-11, 03:59 PM
Sorry if this has been asked before, I tried searching for it and could not find a straight answer. Animal growth does not specifically say that it only works on the animal subtype, nor that it does not work on any other subtype. it just says animals. Is there a definitive answer somewhere that I can use as a resource to allow/disallow for use on creatures that look and act like animals, but are not animals(type)?

Animal is not a subtype, it's a type, just like Humanoid, Undead, or Dragon. The spell targets Animals, which are creatures of the Animal type. Just like how charm person targets Humanoids, creatures of the Humanoid type, and not humanoids, any creature with a roughly human-like body shape.

EDIT: Because some shapechanging magics can change your type to Animal, thus enabling you to use it as a self-buff.

Segev
2015-05-11, 04:38 PM
I think animals are only restricted to a "natural" Int of 1-2. If they get a higher one due to any sort of named bonus (particularly a temporary one), they remain animals. It's only when they're enhanced more permanently (say, by becoming a familiar) that they become something else, and that almost always is a "magical beast."

Urpriest
2015-05-11, 08:26 PM
Thank you for the clarification. Since that is the case, what is the point of having Animal Growth on the SOrc/Wiz list if everything they can summon is either celestial or fiendish? So you can make normal animals, you have no control over, bigger and stronger? Seems odd to me.

There's a lot of stuff like that around. Sometimes you just want to make something big and scary and then run away. It's not optimized, but WotC designed the Wizard spell list around "things Wizards sometimes do in fiction", and you can't deny that's something they sometimes do.

Also, could you explain why you thought Animal was a subtype? I'm curious where these sorts of misconceptions come from.