Maneuver Use Question; I must be reading this wrong

[SouthpawSoldier]

Looking at a DEX-based TWF Spell-less Ranger; Shortsword + whip a la Zorro, but using a Light weapon (digression; Rapiers are not light? *shrug*) to allow TWF without the feat. Intent was for a mix of damage types, but then I had a thought.

Use the Bonus action for the Feinting maneuver, and follow up with a Trip. Idea is a Feint with the whip (crack it the target's face) and use that to cover cutting their feet out from under them, or feinting a thrust and wrapping the whip around their neck, pulling them off their feet.

Progression would be something like

1. Use Bonus Action for a Feinting Attack; burn 1 die to get Advantage on next attack roll. If it hits (15 Dex means +4 on this roll) gain bonus damage (1d8).
2. Use Attack action for a follow-up attack with Advantage; burn 2nd die for bonus damage (another 1d8), and knock target prone if they fail the save (12).

So you're tacking on a bonus 2d8, + DEX (Finesse weapon) + weapon damage, and knocking the target prone.

I HAVE to be reading this wrong. That seems far too potent for a 2nd level trick.

But,

Using 1 maneuver per attack, as RAW (separate attacks); doesn't say 1 maneuver/round, or turn, etc.

Not using TWF Attack Action + Bonus Action attack; using Bonus Action then Attack as a separate action. Doesn't violate TWF RAW, since isn't based on TWF rules. Could be done with a single weapon just fine. TWF description is just verisimilitude; hence keeping the DEX bonus.

Only able to do this twice between rests (4 die), but even so, it seems a bit much.

[Jamesps]

So a few things:

1) Whips aren't light weapons. Unless you have the dual wield feat you can't use them normally for two weapon fighting. This isn't actually a problem with for what you want to do as "feinting attack" is a special attack, rather than a second strike with a weapon. You can use whatever you want for it... But it does affect all follow up rounds.

2) You don't get superiority dice until 3rd level fighter. So you absolutely cannot use this as a 2nd level trick, particularly if you've mixed in levels of ranger.

3) You can only use 4 total superiority dice per short rest. Using two per round will run you out of them real quick, so regardless of how powerful it is, it's pretty short sighted to blow everything you have so quickly. An extra 2d8 damage isn't that big a deal either. Paladin's base smite does that, and though their smites are daily powers they get a lot more of them.

That said, other than the level requirement everything you said should work. I just don't think it's that powerful compared to things other classes can get, particularly given how fast it burns you through your resources.

[HoarsHalberd]

Looking at a DEX-based TWF Spell-less Ranger; Shortsword + whip a la Zorro, but using a Light weapon (digression; Rapiers are not light? *shrug*) to allow TWF without the feat. Intent was for a mix of damage types, but then I had a thought.

Use the Bonus action for the Feinting maneuver, and follow up with a Trip. Idea is a Feint with the whip (crack it the target's face) and use that to cover cutting their feet out from under them, or feinting a thrust and wrapping the whip around their neck, pulling them off their feet.

Progression would be something like

1. Use Bonus Action for a Feinting Attack; burn 1 die to get Advantage on next attack roll. If it hits (15 Dex means +4 on this roll) gain bonus damage (1d8).
2. Use Attack action for a follow-up attack with Advantage; burn 2nd die for bonus damage (another 1d8), and knock target prone if they fail the save (12).

So you're tacking on a bonus 2d8, + DEX (Finesse weapon) + weapon damage, and knocking the target prone.

I HAVE to be reading this wrong. That seems far too potent for a 2nd level trick.

But,

Using 1 maneuver per attack, as RAW (separate attacks); doesn't say 1 maneuver/round, or turn, etc.

Not using TWF Attack Action + Bonus Action attack; using Bonus Action then Attack as a separate action. Doesn't violate TWF RAW, since isn't based on TWF rules. Could be done with a single weapon just fine. TWF description is just verisimilitude; hence keeping the DEX bonus.

Only able to do this twice between rests (4 die), but even so, it seems a bit much.

It's a third level tactic and you're essentially giving up 1d4+dex to give yourself advantage. It's not a lot compared to other martial classes at that level. 3rd level rogues get 2d6 sneak attack every turn they have advantage or have an ally. Monks can make three attacks a round they burn ki. Barbarians can rage for bonus damage on every swing.

[SouthpawSoldier]

For the Spell-less Ranger, it's 2nd level. Not multiclassing or using a feat. Straight Ranger.

From http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/modifying-classes


Combat Superiority

At 2nd level, you learn maneuvers that are fueled by special dice called superiority dice.

Maneuvers. You learn two maneuvers of your choice, which are chosen from the list of maneuvers available to fighters with the Battle Master archetype. Many maneuvers enhance an attack in some way. You can use only one maneuver per attack.

You learn one additional maneuver of your choice at 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th levels. Each time you learn a new maneuver, you can also replace one maneuver you know with a different one.

Superiority Dice. You have four superiority dice, which are d8s. A superiority die is expended when you use it. You regain all of your expended superiority dice when you finish a short or long rest.

You gain another superiority die at 9th level and one more at 17th level.

Saving Throws. Some of your maneuvers require your target to make a saving throw to resist the maneuver’s effects. The saving throw DC is calculated as follows:

Maneuver save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Strength or Dexterity modifier (your choice)

[HoarsHalberd]

For the Spell-less Ranger, it's 2nd level. Not multiclassing or using a feat. Straight Ranger.



Forgot about the UA semi-homebrew rules. But it's just a level earlier. You'll probably be ahead of the curve for that level but not for much afterwards.