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Scunch
2015-05-12, 11:55 PM
I'd like some advice on how to make a "light" chaotic evil character naturally evolve into a chaotic neutral character

You see, I'm DMing a group right now and it's the first time I've done this. The group's first task was to kill some goblins that murdered a local farmer's boy, and long story short they captured the goblin leader "Fatmouth" and handed him over to the farmer. The farmer's house was burned down and he was killed by the big bad (an elder dragon) and they saved Fatmouth from the burning building where he was being tortured in retribution. Fatmouth has become the mascot of the group and all the players love his antics. The king has given him official citizenship as long as he stays with the group (the idea of a noble half orc taking a goblin as his ward was terribly amusing to the king). He's not quite a Belkar, his personality consists mostly of enjoying slaughter and being horribly inappropriate and disgusting (bouncing around inside of the corpses of giant spiders for recreation, eating kobold tails and fingers because "among my people they're a delicacy", eating pretty much everything else, sneaking ale, being an ass, wondering why humans don't make their children pit fight to the death for sport like goblins etc.). I'm letting the lawful good player who saved the goblin and took him as his ward play him (I have veto rights if I feel like he's playing him out of character) and he's done a great job and given Fatmouth the voice of Gilbert Godfried.

We're at level 2 right now (maybe 4-6 games in?) and I'd like to start developing the character into a chaotic neutral character, make him a bit more sympathetic. I think I'd like it to culminate into a point where he has to make a decision between screwing over/killing the PC's for his own profit and saving the group, and I want it to feel like a meaningful evolution to get there, so some tips on how to get there from here would be appreciated.

Sith_Happens
2015-05-13, 02:22 AM
The road ahead is quite clear and smooth. It starts with Fatmouth deciding "Hey, I like these guys, they treat me well and are fun to be around." Eventually that train of thought reaches the stage of "Maybe I shouldn't make these guys upset with me, they might leave me behind or kill me." From there he puts two and two together, i.e.- "These guys don't like it when I do X, Y, or Z, so I probably shouldn't do those things." At that point he's basically post-Greysky City Belkar; the longer he refrains from doing X, Y, and Z the more natural it feels to not be doing them, until he eventually reaches the point that he legitimately loses part or all of the interest he initially had in them.

Maglubiyet
2015-05-13, 08:01 AM
Yeah, in Fatmouth's case, Evil might've been a survival trait -- "do unto others before they do to you" type of thing. He was nasty because he had to be and apparently he was the nastiest of them all if he was their leader. That might mean he's a quick study of what it takes to survive.

Once that pressure to be the nastiest is gone and there are actual penalties for acting that way, he might naturally gravitate toward a more neutral position.

Red Fel
2015-05-13, 08:17 AM
At that point he's basically post-Greysky City Belkar; the longer he refrains from doing X, Y, and Z the more natural it feels to not be doing them, until he eventually reaches the point that he legitimately loses part or all of the interest he initially had in them.

Once that pressure to be the nastiest is gone and there are actual penalties for acting that way, he might naturally gravitate toward a more neutral position.

What they said. The easiest evolution from E to N starts with one or both of two things - a desire to cut down on general Evilness in order to keep friends happy, which leads to a general reduction of desire to do Evil; or a reduction in incentive to commit Evil in the first place. Get there and you're golden. That said...


I think I'd like it to culminate into a point where he has to make a decision between screwing over/killing the PC's for his own profit and saving the group, and I want it to feel like a meaningful evolution to get there, so some tips on how to get there from here would be appreciated.

The evolution described by Sith and Mag is the gradual process, and needs to happen. An alignment shift shouldn't be a sudden thing. However, I agree that at some point you should face some sort of "test of character" event, where your PC is given a choice. This should be a choice that the PC, as he once was, would fail; but as he is now, he can pass.

To get there, I would recommend talking to your DM. Discuss with him your planned character arc. See if you can get him onboard, providing the occasional challenge that would give you the opportunity to evolve your PC. You won't control when these things happen, the DM will, but you will control how your PC reacts; because you have the DM involved, however, you can be sure that they will happen. And at some point, when he feels you're ready, he can drop that major fork-in-the-road choice on you, in the aftermath of which the entire party will recognize that your PC has changed, and you can smugly switch out that E on your character sheet for an N.

As a general rule, I find telling the DM about your planned character arcs can really help, because DMs are often full of cruel sadistic creative ways to help the PCs die suffer develop.

Geddy2112
2015-05-13, 09:42 AM
Good is pretty simply defined as being altruistic, respecting life, and concern for the dignity of sentient beings. A pretty hard sell to an evil person. Neutral characters wont kill innocent people, but lack the conviction to help others without good reason i.e. personal relationships. Having this character trust the party and value that relationship(and as an extension, their lives) will quickly move this character from evil to neutral. The LG player in particular should show how good and lawful actions can reap real benefits, and that doing "good" acts is often a great way to get ahead in the world. Certainly a character that is good but is utterly self motivated will never get past neutral, but will at least no longer be evil.

To get to good, the character will have to find a cause greater than themselves that shows respect for life or the dignity of sentient creatures. Something they would sacrifice everything for. Once the character is neutral, they could learn to see things like torture, mass murder, psychotic chaos/slavery(depening on their law vs chaos views) as things that need to be stopped for the good of somebody over themselves(although most good people can benefit from their altruism, but that is not their motive).


I agree that at some point you should face some sort of "test of character" event, where your PC is given a choice. This should be a choice that the PC, as he once was, would fail; but as he is now, he can pass.



I think I'd like it to culminate into a point where he has to make a decision between screwing over/killing the PC's for his own profit and saving the group, and I want it to feel like a meaningful evolution to get there, so some tips on how to get there from here would be appreciated.

To test neutral vs evil, have this character in a situation where there would be a reward to help the PC's, but a greater reward to hurt them. A neutral character under extreme duress is probably going to say"its either them or me" and sell them out, but when there are advantages to not killing them(even if this is just their friendship and respect) a neutral character probably won't sell them out.

To test neutral vs good, give the character a chance to sacrifice that will improve the world or life of something in some way. This can't just be getting a cat out of a tree, a good action but not much sacrifice. This has to carry significant risk of injury, death, or great personal/financial loss. The character should do it because it is the good thing to do.

Sith_Happens
2015-05-13, 11:07 PM
talking to your DM

Scunch is the DM, Fatmouth is an NPC that the party decided to drag around with them.