can sorcerers or bards become red wizards?

[Ettina]

OK, reading the DMG entry on Red Wizards, and I'm confused by something.

In the intro, it says:


While it is possible for a sorcerer or bard to become a Red Wizard, such misfits are ridiculed in their homeland and are extremely rare.

Which fits the requirement for 'ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells'. However, Red Wizards must also have a Tattoo Focus, and the prerequisite for Tattoo Focus states:


Prerequisite: Specialized in a school of magic.

Reading over the sorcerer and bard class descriptions, I see no mention of them being able to specialize in a school of magic. That seems to be a wizard-specific thing.

So how could sorcerers and bards be Red Wizards, if they can't get a Tattoo Focus?

[ShurikVch]

OK, reading the DMG entry on Red Wizards, and I'm confused by something.

In the intro, it says:



Which fits the requirement for 'ability to cast 3rd level arcane spells'. However, Red Wizards must also have a Tattoo Focus, and the prerequisite for Tattoo Focus states:



Reading over the sorcerer and bard class descriptions, I see no mention of them being able to specialize in a school of magic. That seems to be a wizard-specific thing.

So how could sorcerers and bards be Red Wizards, if they can't get a Tattoo Focus?Dip in Incantatrix

[Flickerdart]

A character could be a multiclass Wizard/Sorcerer who has much better Sorc casting (in order to get into Ultimate Magus, or because it's FR and everyone's builds are garbage).

[ShurikVch]

Also, Wizard/Prestige Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard) :smallwink:

[Ettina]

Yeah, multiclassing could do it, but that line in the intro kind of implied a non-multiclass sorcerer or bard could become a Red Wizard too. Was it just wrong?

[Flickerdart]

This is not the first time WotC forgot prerequisites had their own prerequisites - Fleshgrafter and Body Leech get screwed because they have one prerequisite which is disproportionately high-level compared to everything else they get. In both cases (a feat and a spell respectively) it's not immediately obvious that you can't get in at a low level until you go and actually look them up.

[ShurikVch]

Is it possible to take feat Magical Training, and select, say, Wizard (Necromancer)?

[Flickerdart]

Is it possible to take feat Magical Training, and select, say, Wizard (Necromancer)?
Unfortunately, Magical Training doesn't give you the option to specialize, only choose Wizard or Sorcerer casting.

[OldTrees1]

Dip in Incantatrix

Tattoo Focus is a 1st level only feat so all Red Wizards needed their first level to be a specialist wizard. A Red Wizard Dread Necromancer would look something like Necromancer 1 / Dread Necromancer 6-8 / Red Wizard 5.

[Ettina]

Tattoo Focus is a 1st level only feat so all Red Wizards needed their first level to be a specialist wizard. A Red Wizard Dread Necromancer would look something like Necromancer 1 / Dread Necromancer 6-8 / Red Wizard 5.

It says nothing about it having to be first level.

Here's what it says, in full, in the DMG:


New Feat: Tattoo Focus [Special]
Prerequisite: Specialized in a school of magic.
Region: Thay.
Benefit: Add +1 to the DC for all saving throws against spells from your specialized school. You get a +1 bonus on caster level checks (1d20 + caster level) to overcome a creature's spell resistance when casting spells from that school.
Special: Only characters with the Tattoo Focus feat can participate in Red Wizard circle magic.

[Flickerdart]

Here's what it says, in full, in the DMG:
The PGtF version is more current by a year and contains this Special line: "You may select this feat only as a 1st-level character. You may have only one regional feat."

[ShurikVch]

The PGtF version is more current by a year and contains this Special line: "You may select this feat only as a 1st-level character. You may have only one regional feat."
Dark Chaos Shuffle?

[OldTrees1]

Dark Chaos Shuffle?

You still need to qualify for the feat. Since you can only select the feat at 1st level, you would have to be 1st level to shuffle in the feat. Still that would allow you to turn the Scribe Scroll bonus feat into Tattoo Focus.